Apprentice in my local was killed on the job

[Frozenbeernuts 2,440]

https://www.nwitimes.com/business/local/construction-worker-dies-in-accident-at-bp-whiting-refinery/article_79ce0dd7-6498-5640-86ee-ca42a5ab3a2d.html#utm_campaign=blox&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

 

I know a few guys who either saw it happen or saw the immediate aftermath. Kid fell 30 feet and was toast. BP refused to use retractable lanyards on the entire turn around even though it's pretty much industry standard these days. This was a 30' vertical Unbroken scaffold ladder. What the fvck. Osha only allows 20' maximum unbroken without additional protection, like a barrel cage. 

BP has tried to Penny pinch every day and made it miserable to work there. Thankfully I'm not. This is what the fvck happens. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,583]

wow awful

ban scaffolding

 

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

You need to be able to stop work in unsafe conditions. This is why they have whistleblower laws.

[drobeski 3,061]

Shouldn't the contractor have ensured his workers are using and are provided with proper PPE along with safe working practices?

[Frozenbeernuts 2,440]

2 minutes ago, drobeski said:

Shouldn't the contractor have ensured his workers are using and are provided with proper PPE along with safe working practices?

They told BP that there should be retractables on the job. BP said they aren't going to use them. Non union and union alike were using these scaffolds

[drobeski 3,061]

1 minute ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

They told BP that there should be retractables on the job. BP said they aren't going to use them. Non union and union alike were using these scaffolds

Why didnt the contractor provide the retractables? Seems to be their responsibility. 

[Frozenbeernuts 2,440]

23 minutes ago, drobeski said:

Why didnt the contractor provide the retractables? Seems to be their responsibility. 

It's not a pipe fitters responsibility to hang a retractable on a scaffold. We are not qualified to do that, and the company is definitely not qualified to take responsibility for anyone else using that scaffold retractable. 

Edit: We aren't allowed to alter anything related to scaffolding. You should know this 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,340]

This is so sad and preventable.  Now a young man is dead because company wanted to save money.

I hope they sue them into Oblivion.

[Frozenbeernuts 2,440]

11 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

This is so sad and preventable.  Now a young man is dead because company wanted to save money.

I hope they sue them into Oblivion.

Yeah me too. They have so many stupid safety rules, but the one that actually makes a difference they decided not to utilize. 

[drobeski 3,061]

31 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

Yeah me too. They have so many stupid safety rules, but the one that actually makes a difference they decided not to utilize. 

Why, if they knew it was unsafe,  did they do it anyway ?

[Frozenbeernuts 2,440]

12 minutes ago, drobeski said:

Why, if they knew it was unsafe,  did they do it anyway ?

The entire refinery is unsafe. Might as well never construct anything again. Driving is unsafe. Might as well stay home

[drobeski 3,061]

13 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

The entire refinery is unsafe. Might as well never construct anything again. Driving is unsafe. Might as well stay home

So you dont hold the contractor responsible for the safety of his employees at all ?

[Frozenbeernuts 2,440]

4 hours ago, drobeski said:

So you dont hold the contractor responsible for the safety of his employees at all ?

Quit being a douche troll. The contractor is responsible, and so is BP. If we refused to do every job that had a hint of danger to it, nothing would get done. Sure the company could just refuse to do the job because there aren't retractables, but then someone else gets the contract, possibly even the non union side. You are a serious POS if you are trying to troll me after this guy fell onto his head from 30 feet.

[drobeski 3,061]

49 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

Quit being a douche troll. The contractor is responsible, and so is BP. If we refused to do every job that had a hint of danger to it, nothing would get done. Sure the company could just refuse to do the job because there aren't retractables, but then someone else gets the contract, possibly even the non union side. You are a serious POS if you are trying to troll me after this guy fell onto his head from 30 feet.

I'm not trolling at all. I deal with safety situations every day. I know that tha contractor is responsible for providing proper safety training and proper ppe to thier employees. Contractors cannot even come on our site without meeting our own stringent safety protocols. 

You're ire was solely pointed at BP ..when it should be distributed accordingly and should start with the contractor or Forman who sent the rookie up there. 

And dont try and mamby mamby guilt me boy. You're the one who always brags about how unions are the most well trained and safest employees on the planet.  The something like this happens and you deflect any responsibility from those who are actually responsible...because it may tarnish the false image you portray.  

Blow your guilt out your ass. It's a tragedy this young kid fell to his death. But it's also tragedy he was sent up there by some asz hole who put getting the job done over his safety.

[Frozenbeernuts 2,440]

5 hours ago, drobeski said:

I'm not trolling at all. I deal with safety situations every day. I know that tha contractor is responsible for providing proper safety training and proper ppe to thier employees. Contractors cannot even come on our site without meeting our own stringent safety protocols. 

You're ire was solely pointed at BP ..when it should be distributed accordingly and should start with the contractor or Forman who sent the rookie up there. 

And dont try and mamby mamby guilt me boy. You're the one who always brags about how unions are the most well trained and safest employees on the planet.  The something like this happens and you deflect any responsibility from those who are actually responsible...because it may tarnish the false image you portray.  

Blow your guilt out your ass. It's a tragedy this young kid fell to his death. But it's also tragedy he was sent up there by some asz hole who put getting the job done over his safety.

He wasn't sent up there. He was afraid of heights and his job was on the ground. He took it upon himself to go up there and try to help. 

Yes union is better than non union, but nowhere did I ever say union construction workers are anywhere near perfect. I would love for anyone to come watch us work next to non union, and then tell me which you feel more comfortable with on a job site. 

I said that the contractor is also responsible. BP is more responsible, but both are ultimately responsible. 

[Frozenbeernuts 2,440]

6 hours ago, drobeski said:

I'm not trolling at all. I deal with safety situations every day. I know that tha contractor is responsible for providing proper safety training and proper ppe to thier employees. Contractors cannot even come on our site without meeting our own stringent safety protocols. 

You're ire was solely pointed at BP ..when it should be distributed accordingly and should start with the contractor or Forman who sent the rookie up there. 

And dont try and mamby mamby guilt me boy. You're the one who always brags about how unions are the most well trained and safest employees on the planet.  The something like this happens and you deflect any responsibility from those who are actually responsible...because it may tarnish the false image you portray.  

Blow your guilt out your ass. It's a tragedy this young kid fell to his death. But it's also tragedy he was sent up there by some asz hole who put getting the job done over his safety.

Oh and don't give me your boy bullshlt. Me being union makes me more qualified than you and your 40 years on the job to be on a constriction site

[IGotWorms 4,063]

On 10/5/2019 at 12:37 PM, drobeski said:

I'm not trolling at all. I deal with safety situations every day. I know that tha contractor is responsible for providing proper safety training and proper ppe to thier employees. Contractors cannot even come on our site without meeting our own stringent safety protocols. 

You're ire was solely pointed at BP ..when it should be distributed accordingly and should start with the contractor or Forman who sent the rookie up there. 

And dont try and mamby mamby guilt me boy. You're the one who always brags about how unions are the most well trained and safest employees on the planet.  The something like this happens and you deflect any responsibility from those who are actually responsible...because it may tarnish the false image you portray.  

Blow your guilt out your ass. It's a tragedy this young kid fell to his death. But it's also tragedy he was sent up there by some asz hole who put getting the job done over his safety.

[Hardcore troubadour 16,061]

R.I.P.  Terrible. 

[MDC 8,116]

On 10/5/2019 at 3:37 PM, drobeski said:

I'm not trolling at all. I deal with safety situations every day. I know that tha contractor is responsible for providing proper safety training and proper ppe to thier employees. Contractors cannot even come on our site without meeting our own stringent safety protocols. 

You're ire was solely pointed at BP ..when it should be distributed accordingly and should start with the contractor or Forman who sent the rookie up there. 

And dont try and mamby mamby guilt me boy. You're the one who always brags about how unions are the most well trained and safest employees on the planet.  The something like this happens and you deflect any responsibility from those who are actually responsible...because it may tarnish the false image you portray.  

Blow your guilt out your ass. It's a tragedy this young kid fell to his death. But it's also tragedy he was sent up there by some asz hole who put getting the job done over his safety.

Somebody died, take a break from your agenda ass hole.

[drobeski 3,061]

23 minutes ago, MDC said:

Somebody died, take a break from your agenda ass hole.

No ...my agenda is safety 

People dropped the ball and thats why someone died. 

 No better time to talk about it. 

People die every day .

Also fock off. 

You knew the kid  ? Fbn did ? 

 

Huge fail loser. 

[MTSkiBum 1,626]

Drobs is being a jerk, but he is closer to being correct. The foreman and contractor should have caught the problem and reported it.

 

Upper management loves when safety violations are reported before anyone gets hurt. Our company gives bonuses to anyone who reports 12 in a year.

 

There may be an issue with local/middle management, but the job should have been stopped and the workers should have spoke up. Almost all companies have a procedure for reporting issues like this.

[IGotWorms 4,063]

39 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

Drobs is being a jerk, but he is closer to being correct. The foreman and contractor should have caught the problem and reported it.

 

Upper management loves when safety violations are reported before anyone gets hurt. Our company gives bonuses to anyone who reports 12 in a year.

 

There may be an issue with local/middle management, but the job should have been stopped and the workers should have spoke up. Almost all companies have a procedure for reporting issues like this.

I’ll admit to being on the outside here, but this seems pretty naive and/or a way to deflect from management.

I mean I don’t know the facts, so maybe these folks were just being lazy and careless. But presumably they would not wish to work in unsafe conditions and so presumably something kept them from speaking up. If it’s middle management than upper management needs to remove that barrier. Or maybe it’s a company-wide issue from the top. Either way it probably comes back to the people at the top.

It seems pretty silly to put the blame at the guys on the bottom with the least power to do something  

[drobeski 3,061]

46 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

Drobs is being a jerk, but he is closer to being correct. The foreman and contractor should have caught the problem and reported it.

 

Upper management loves when safety violations are reported before anyone gets hurt. Our company gives bonuses to anyone who reports 12 in a year.

 

There may be an issue with local/middle management, but the job should have been stopped and the workers should have spoke up. Almost all companies have a procedure for reporting issues like this.

Yep sure do and contractors sign off on ensuring their workers will be provided with proper PPE along with proper safety training.  If they dont meet these requirements they will not be even eligible to bid on the job never mind be awarded the job. Bottom line, a foreman sent this kid up there, and as fbn pointed out sent him up there knowing it's not safe.

[MTSkiBum 1,626]

1 minute ago, IGotWorms said:

I’ll admit to being on the outside here, but this seems pretty naive and/or a way to deflect from management.

I mean I don’t know the facts, so maybe these folks were just being lazy and careless. But presumably they would not wish to work in unsafe conditions and so presumably something kept them from speaking up. If it’s middle management than upper management needs to remove that barrier. Or maybe it’s a company-wide issue from the top. Either way it probably comes back to the people at the top.

It seems pretty silly to put the blame at the guys on the bottom with the least power to do something  

 

It is probably lower/middle managements fault, ie the BP foreman or the contractor foreman. They wanted to keep a deadline, etc. That is why so many major companies offer a way for workers to submit HSE violations that bypass local management.

 

Also, if the below is true. Maybe it was a workers fault, looks like it may have been a 21 year old kid trying hard to make a name for himself as a good worker and trying to perform a task that he was not authorized to perform, did not have the safety equipment for, nor the appropriate training. 

 

I do not have all of the details and it is sad. I was only trying to offer perspective of someone that has experience in industry.

On 10/5/2019 at 8:37 PM, Frozenbeernuts said:

He wasn't sent up there. He was afraid of heights and his job was on the ground. He took it upon himself to go up there and try to help. 

Yes union is better than non union, but nowhere did I ever say union construction workers are anywhere near perfect. I would love for anyone to come watch us work next to non union, and then tell me which you feel more comfortable with on a job site. 

I said that the contractor is also responsible. BP is more responsible, but both are ultimately responsible. 

 

 

[Frozenbeernuts 2,440]

1 hour ago, MTSkiBum said:

 

It is probably lower/middle managements fault, ie the BP foreman or the contractor foreman. They wanted to keep a deadline, etc. That is why so many major companies offer a way for workers to submit HSE violations that bypass local management.

 

Also, if the below is true. Maybe it was a workers fault, looks like it may have been a 21 year old kid trying hard to make a name for himself as a good worker and trying to perform a task that he was not authorized to perform, did not have the safety equipment for, nor the appropriate training. 

 

I do not have all of the details and it is sad. I was only trying to offer perspective of someone that has experience in industry.

 

 

Word is that he was nervous about heights and Kind of froze up at the top. He should have been more careful for sure. That's a long way to climb. I have climbed long ladders before, like a 200' + tall flare stack. All vertical ladders. The arms go numb at a certain point and you feel like youre going to lose grip. Not everyone can climb that, especially if someone isn't the strongest and has excess body weight. Not saying that was the case here since I never met the guy before. 

I have been in situations similar based on how dangerous a job is. You're left with a decision, go along with a situation that's dangerous or say no. I have never had to, but welders make hot tap welds on explosive lines all the time. They do so with two massive water cannons pointed at them in case of a flash

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

I stayed out of this one, but when it comes to safety on these sites, it is obviously pretty important.  We deal with this sort of stuff all the time on our projects.  Some important things to note:

- Yes, upper management wants to know about these situations before they happen.  We have people report near misses along with unsafe conditions/acts.  We track them extensively.

- There are plenty of companies that pay lip service to safety.  They say that they want to be safe, but the PM's freak if anyone stops work for any reason.  Our Exec Management team has an official policy that we will stand by anyone of our people who issue a stop work order for any safety reason.  No questions asked and that includes when people who are not under our control are acting unsafely.

- There should be a company that is in charge and they are responsible for all safety issues, including if it is their subs who are having the issue. Their EMR is going up.

- OSHA will be in here and ripping people some new a-holes and assessing fines.  Meanwhile, that dude is dead.