Rookie Rankings / Superflex

[Mike FF Today 607]

I've been fussing around with the format the last couple days but we've got Doug's Rookie Rankings up along with a Superflex option. Top 60 overall with comments included.

[polecatt 399]

Loving those WR and QBs this season!

That's where the talent was though, and the focus of the game.

[weepaws 2,452]

Yeah but Harris is going to be a very good pick. 

[Ray_T 587]

4 hours ago, polecatt said:

Loving those WR and QBs this season!

That's where the talent was though, and the focus of the game.

You are correct sir.  Also...QB's are more valuable in superflex format.  So that tilts the draft in favor of the QB position as well.

[polecatt 399]

10 hours ago, Ray_T said:

You are correct sir.  Also...QB's are more valuable in superflex format.  So that tilts the draft in favor of the QB position as well.

I've never played Superflex or 2 QB or anything like that. I can definitely see how that would go though.

I mostly play dynasty now, and ever since Cam Newton bailed me out at QB his rookie season, I typically like to take a flier on a rookie QB in the late rounds. Got Justin Herbert that way last season and he was my starter by the 3rd or 4th game.

I like to keep 2 QBs around so I can stream them too. I've found that some rookie QBs can work really well in a platoon. They tend to be a little more match up dependent than veteran QBs.

[polecatt 399]

14 hours ago, weepaws said:

Yeah but Harris is going to be a very good pick. 

He is and I think the top 3 RBs or so are in pretty good spots to be fantasy relevant.

 

[Ray_T 587]

10 hours ago, polecatt said:

I've never played Superflex or 2 QB or anything like that. I can definitely see how that would go though.

I mostly play dynasty now, and ever since Cam Newton bailed me out at QB his rookie season, I typically like to take a flier on a rookie QB in the late rounds. Got Justin Herbert that way last season and he was my starter by the 3rd or 4th game.

I like to keep 2 QBs around so I can stream them too. I've found that some rookie QBs can work really well in a platoon. They tend to be a little more match up dependent than veteran QBs.

The 2 QB or superflex league really means any QB putting up numbers is rostered. 

In superflex if you expect them to put up more than 14 points as a QB they are likely an every week starter unless your team is stacked or unless the scoring is atypical in some way.  This is because most starters in any position other than QB dont get more than 14 points week in and week out.   Typically only your elite players do that.   So if you have 4 QB's on your roster and all are starting, you could theoretically start them all (if the rules in your league allow that)

in a 2 QB league, the matter is a bit different.  you need a backup to cover byes but there are not enough backups for everyone in a 12 team league.   in a 10 teamer its fine. not quite as much QB pressure.

 

[plasma george 52]

I'm Commissioner of a 30yo old $200 League, and a relatively newer owner wants to Vote to change our Flex to Super Flex (adding a QB)

I'm cautious on our old school guys, and how this will drastically change our DraftBoard we're used to seeing, IE last year Mahomme went 1.5 and then another QB, Lamar didn't go til 3.1 (this is typical for QBs for us)

I don't want to piss off owners that were used to the 1 QB format and how our Drafts usually go....until it's mid season and too late watching guys that gobbled up QBs early, leading our League. 

I'm not sure I see the reason why ?

Thanks

[AxeElf 787]

43 minutes ago, plasma george said:

I'm Commissioner of a 30yo old $200 League, and a relatively newer owner wants to Vote to change our Flex to Super Flex (adding a QB)

I'm cautious on our old school guys, and how this will drastically change our DraftBoard we're used to seeing, IE last year Mahomme went 1.5 and then another QB, Lamar didn't go til 3.1 (this is typical for QBs for us)

I don't want to piss off owners that were used to the 1 QB format and how our Drafts usually go....until it's mid season and too late watching guys that gobbled up QBs early, leading our League. 

I'm not sure I see the reason why ?

Thanks

If you're in doubt as to what your leaguemates feel, then put it to a vote.  Require 8 out of 12 votes to change it or something like that.

[lesjroza 70]

45 minutes ago, plasma george said:

I'm Commissioner of a 30yo old $200 League, and a relatively newer owner wants to Vote to change our Flex to Super Flex (adding a QB)

I'm cautious on our old school guys, and how this will drastically change our DraftBoard we're used to seeing, IE last year Mahomme went 1.5 and then another QB, Lamar didn't go til 3.1 (this is typical for QBs for us)

I don't want to piss off owners that were used to the 1 QB format and how our Drafts usually go....until it's mid season and too late watching guys that gobbled up QBs early, leading our League. 

I'm not sure I see the reason why ?

Thanks

To me:

The reason why would be QBs are obviously the most important position in the NFL, but have become less relevant in FF over the years. Superflex makes the QB position great again.

 FF can be more interesting (and less luck weighted) when owners are forced to make more value weighted choices in the draft and throughout the year though its possible to have the opposite effect if an owner hits on 2 QBs that have huge year depending on QB scoring. One thing you could consider is damping down the QB scoring at the same time you add a supeflex.

That said, I would not change your 30 yr old league format in that way unless there is strong and nearly unanimous consensus to do so.

Put it on the newb to get everyone on board then hold a private survey to determine the outcome. 

[plasma george 52]

2 minutes ago, lesjroza said:

To me:

The reason why would be QBs are obviously the most important position in the NFL, but have become less relevant in FF over the years. Superflex make the QB position great again.

 FF can be more interesting (and less luck weighted) when owners are forced to make more value weighted choices in the draft and throughout the year though its possible to have the opposite effect if an owner hits on 2 QBs that have huge year depending on QB scoring. One thing you could consider is damping down the QB scoring at the same time you add a supeflex.

That said, I would not change your 30 yr old league format in that way unless there is strong and nearly unanimous consensus to do so.

Put it on the newb to get everyone on board then hold a private survey to determine the outcome. 

We are 4pt passing TD.  I see your point, and this is a new wrinkle in drafting strategy.  Old DraftBoards and Mock Drafts are useless as guides.

My other concern is, the guy wanting this, is Pick #2, I completely see a QB run right at his 2nd Round pick, and top of 3rd, giving those owners an advantage.  We already did our Draft Order.

I guess a League Vote is the answer, just don't want to piss off owner that don't like this new format, and lose them for a something that's not broken. 

[AxeElf 787]

Counterintuitively, Superflex leagues actually DEvalue QBs in a sense.  Yes, you have to be more diligent in drafting 3 QB, just so you don't get stuck without one in byes or injury scenarios, but the actual QBs that you draft matter less than they do in single-QB leagues.

The reason for this is that your total QB score is now an AVERAGE across 2 QBs, rather than a single (hopefully) high score.  It's not as likely for both your QBs to go off in the same week, so about half the time you'll have 1 QB scoring 20+ and the other scoring 15 or so--which equals two QBs scoring 18 points.  Ryan and Cousins are just as good as Mahomes and Darnold most weeks.  So if you go to Superflex, don't get caught up in chasing the high-end QBs; 2-3 average ones will serve you just as well, after you have scooped up the RB and WR values left by people scrambling to get 2 QBs in the first 5 rounds.

[plasma george 52]

7 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

Counterintuitively, Superflex leagues actually DEvalue QBs in a sense.  Yes, you have to be more diligent in drafting 3 QB, just so you don't get stuck without one in byes or injury scenarios, but the actual QBs that you draft matter less than they do in single-QB leagues.

The reason for this is that your total QB score is now an AVERAGE across 2 QBs, rather than a single (hopefully) high score.  It's not as likely for both your QBs to go off in the same week, so about half the time you'll have 1 QB scoring 20+ and the other scoring 15 or so--which equals two QBs scoring 18 points.  Ryan and Cousins are just as good as Mahomes and Darnold most weeks.  So if you go to Superflex, don't get caught up in chasing the high-end QBs; 2-3 average ones will serve you just as well, after you have scooped up the RB and WR values left by people scrambling to get 2 QBs in the first 5 rounds.

Agreed, the ole Value Based Drafting, I'm 8, Mahommes isn't getting passed me, and can get Stafford or Tannehill much later, while gobbling up RB/WR in between.

I guess I'm not as scared, we went back to 10 teams, 2 guys moved, so now 3 QBs rostered is 30 QBs, leaving nothing on the WW (that is an issue for QBs, being only 32). 

[weepaws 2,452]

1 hour ago, plasma george said:

I'm Commissioner of a 30yo old $200 League, and a relatively newer owner wants to Vote to change our Flex to Super Flex (adding a QB)

I'm cautious on our old school guys, and how this will drastically change our DraftBoard we're used to seeing, IE last year Mahomme went 1.5 and then another QB, Lamar didn't go til 3.1 (this is typical for QBs for us)

I don't want to piss off owners that were used to the 1 QB format and how our Drafts usually go....until it's mid season and too late watching guys that gobbled up QBs early, leading our League. 

I'm not sure I see the reason why ?

Thanks

I’m not sure of there is more to this story, but your the commissioner, so have a vote  

 

 

 

[plasma george 52]

40 minutes ago, weepaws said:

I’m not sure of there is more to this story, but your the commissioner, so have a vote  

 

 

 

The only reason I'm skeptical, is some owners are in other money leagues and they always say it's a PIA.

I don't want to give them a reason to quit, in favor of other leagues where they prefer the 1QB format.  I may be reading too much into that, but some of my old school guys already said No to it, and they may be out voted.  6 out of 10.  My league is a balancing act, trying to add new concepts (we did 1/2 PPR few years ago, dropped Kickers), but not rocking the boat for the guys been in it since the beginning.

 

[DrG 94]

Axe’s point about 2 qbs is true to some extent unless QB scoring is overweighted in some super flex leagues as some are.

[weepaws 2,452]

Ok I understand that you don’t want your league to leave , but you don’t have to change anything , so tell that one that everyone else says no.  

 

[wolves111 69]

4 hours ago, AxeElf said:

Counterintuitively, Superflex leagues actually DEvalue QBs in a sense.  Yes, you have to be more diligent in drafting 3 QB, just so you don't get stuck without one in byes or injury scenarios, but the actual QBs that you draft matter less than they do in single-QB leagues.

The reason for this is that your total QB score is now an AVERAGE across 2 QBs, rather than a single (hopefully) high score.  It's not as likely for both your QBs to go off in the same week, so about half the time you'll have 1 QB scoring 20+ and the other scoring 15 or so--which equals two QBs scoring 18 points.  Ryan and Cousins are just as good as Mahomes and Darnold most weeks.  So if you go to Superflex, don't get caught up in chasing the high-end QBs; 2-3 average ones will serve you just as well, after you have scooped up the RB and WR values left by people scrambling to get 2 QBs in the first 5 rounds.

That is absolute bs...

[AxeElf 787]

13 minutes ago, wolves111 said:

That is absolute bs...

I can say, "No it's not" too.

Do you have any counterarguments, or are you just being contrarian today?

[lesjroza 70]

2 hours ago, AxeElf said:

I can say, "No it's not" too.

Do you have any counterarguments, or are you just being contrarian today?

Its a hard point to argue. Because it's not correct or incorrect, the general idea is influenced tremendously by scoring and to some extent by how participants choose to draft.

I have been playing SF leagues now for 4 yrs (FF since late 1980s) and if I used only the experience of SF leagues I have been in........... the statement of "that is absolute BS" would be 100% correct.

Still I could see a QB scoring system designed in a way in which might make your take true-ish if we expected all participants to draft in a way that maximizes outcome (that alone never happens!).

I think that scoring system would have to make QBs score either a lot less or a lot more than other positions though to get participants all on the same page (for where to draft QBs) and the best goal is probably to get QB scoring to a point where it becomes neither an advantage or disadvantage by the time QB13, RB13 and WR24 roll off the board............. at that point the choices become about who is right in predicting what will happen this year as opposed to tactical roster build.

Screw it, I'm going with Wolves absolute BS take!     

 

[lesjroza 70]

10 hours ago, plasma george said:

We are 4pt passing TD.  I see your point, and this is a new wrinkle in drafting strategy.  Old DraftBoards and Mock Drafts are useless as guides.

My other concern is, the guy wanting this, is Pick #2, I completely see a QB run right at his 2nd Round pick, and top of 3rd, giving those owners an advantage.  We already did our Draft Order.

I guess a League Vote is the answer, just don't want to piss off owner that don't like this new format, and lose them for a something that's not broken. 

 

Just my opinion but settings changes of any kind post draft order pull should be a non-starter. Could it be a suggestion for next year? 

I would definitely expect some hard feelings to ensue in most groups about the change post draft order or at the suggestion of a re-pull based on the change.

I wouldn't risk destabilizing a 30 yr league. If there is enough interest maybe next year or even a shadow league this year with some or all of the same owners?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lesjroza 70]

On 5/11/2021 at 5:56 PM, Mike FF Today said:

I've been fussing around with the format the last couple days but we've got Doug's Rookie Rankings up along with a Superflex option. Top 60 overall with comments included.

 

Getting back to the O.P. thanks for the ranks Doug, nice job!

I can't heavily disagree with anything, and don't have much to add with the exception of a question about the green check mark which is listed as representing upside.

Trevor is listed as #1, but has the check mark...................... so upside beyond the #1 pick?

The only reason I noticed was because the nit-picky me might put that upside checkmark next to Lance instead whom I did take ahead of Trevor in a 1 QB league because I felt he has the higher ceiling. I might have done so in an Superflex as well but I'll never know for sure since Trevor was off the board.

I understand Trevor's rank ahead as an almost sure thing prospect, agree, and think he is deserving........... but I also believe Lance' skillset in the SF offense with the organization and talent in place gives him upside potentially beyond what I see around Trevor (even if Lance' floor is lower) which is what I thought the checkmark may represent.

 

 

[Mike FF Today 607]

Rookie ranks and Rookie SuperFlex are updated.