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Kadarius Toney on his way out of NY?

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31 minutes ago, weepaws said:

 

Lady’s please go private with this bs.  

Happy to with the only pre-condition being you go private with every single future post of yours on the main bored. Do we have a deal?

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30 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Good it worked , dumb and dumber are no longer slapping each other. 

🤢

:doh:

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26 minutes ago, jrokh said:

Happy to with the only pre-condition being you go private with every single future post of yours on the main bored. Do we have a deal?

Excuse me , I won’t go private with you.  

Gross 👍

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35 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Good it worked , dumb and dumber are no longer slapping each other. 

🤢

And it’s still working , everyone is welcome. 

Thanks. 

😴

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24 minutes ago, weepaws said:

And it’s still working , everyone is welcome. 

Thanks. 

😴

Nice keeping on topic. Any thoughts?

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6 hours ago, weepaws said:

1/2 point ppr last season , the great Golladay avg 5 points per game , and the even greater Toney avg 6. 

Neither one of them want to be great.  

Trade them both.  

On topic. 

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35 minutes ago, weepaws said:

And it’s still working , everyone is welcome. 

Thanks. 

😴

 

10 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

Nice keeping on topic. Any thoughts?

Still working.  🎉

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Just now, weepaws said:

 

Still working.  🎉

I can see people not wanting to post here with you being on this site. 

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I think it’s a free country, at least today it still is, and if they choice not to post here cause of me, so be it.  Bye.  

Now you must be insane, you’ve said it many times, and yet here you are, still a bother, and still posting me, yea you’re insane.  

And yet the slapping has came to a halt.  So it worked.  

God Bless. 

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:doh:

The Giants are looking to trade wide receiver Kadarius Toney, according to the New York Daily News. New York is reportedly making calls to see what it can get in return for the young wideout ahead of the draft. Toney hasn't shown up to voluntary minicamp, which wouldn't seem like that much of an issue had his rookie campaign not been dramatic. 

....

Toney seemingly referenced the report in an Instagram post. Against a black background, Toney wrote, "You gone hurt yo own damn feelings tryna hurt mine, idgaf about nothing." 

...

Toney missed time in 2021 due to multiple injuries, was placed on the reserve/COVID-19 list twice and was subject to the wrong kind of headlines in the preseason. Last summer, Toney reportedly did not finish either of the Giants' two rookie minicamp practices due to a cleat issue and an injury. He then missed voluntary workouts because he had not signed his rookie contract, which was unusual. As Dan Duggan of The Athletic reported, this was different since rookies sign waivers that protect them in case of injury during offseason programs.

The New York Daily News reported that Toney's commitment came into question behind the scenes in 2021 due to "lack of playbook study" and "poor meeting behavior." It also didn't help that he missed so much time from preseason to the end of the year due to multiple issues. 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/kadarius-toney-rumors-giants-shopping-former-first-round-pick-wide-receiver-per-report/

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17 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

He then missed voluntary workouts because he had not signed his rookie contract, which was unusual. As Dan Duggan of The Athletic reported, this was different since rookies sign waivers that protect them in case of injury during offseason programs.

ok, I am trying to wrap my head around this.

he missed voluntary workouts his rookie year because he hadnt signed his rookie contract..... but all rookie contracts are more or less set in stone by the league are they not?

but then apparently there is the waiver issue to protect him in case of injury.   what is the deal with this?

I'm interested in knowing whether this is a thing or not.

the more I see about this situation the weirder it seems to get.

either way whether they trade him(or not) to me largely depends on what price they can get for him.

I'd suggest if its lower than a 2nd round pick, the better bet is to let him sit if he doesnt wanna show the committment to play.

at the price of a 2nd, at least you can get a reasonably decent roster player for him.  any lower than that, you may be better off rolling the dice to see if you can rehab him.   if you can get him to the point where he puts up good numbers even once, then you can trade his azz away so he becomes someone elses problem.

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1 hour ago, Ray_T said:

ok, I am trying to wrap my head around this.

he missed voluntary workouts his rookie year because he hadnt signed his rookie contract..... but all rookie contracts are more or less set in stone by the league are they not?

but then apparently there is the waiver issue to protect him in case of injury.   what is the deal with this?

I'm interested in knowing whether this is a thing or not.

the more I see about this situation the weirder it seems to get.

either way whether they trade him(or not) to me largely depends on what price they can get for him.

I'd suggest if its lower than a 2nd round pick, the better bet is to let him sit if he doesnt wanna show the committment to play.

at the price of a 2nd, at least you can get a reasonably decent roster player for him.  any lower than that, you may be better off rolling the dice to see if you can rehab him.   if you can get him to the point where he puts up good numbers even once, then you can trade his azz away so he becomes someone elses problem.

It is odd. There's also this: Toney's commitment came into question behind the scenes in 2021 due to "lack of playbook study" and "poor meeting behavior."

What rookie comes into the league and does this? How did the giants not know about this type of attitude in this day and age?

Who knows? Maybe he turns it around and gets back on the field and runs 45 yards in circles for every 10 gain and he works out in the end for the giants. :dunno:

But as for the trade at this point, I would be shocked if anyone offered a 2nd round pick at this point. Especially this year with really good receivers that will be available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. I don't know how teams could perceive his actions without thinking the guy needs mental help.  

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Who’s to say that the Gmen don’t know about his type of attitude, teams don’t like to shy away from talent.  

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19 hours ago, Utilit99 said:

He played in 10 games and had 39 catches. What's not in the stats is  that 17 of those catches came in two blowout losses to the Cowboys and Bucs. Soft coverage and then no where to go. And dude doesn't even play special teams. 

I posted "Kid looked like he would be the easy top WR for them but was sidetracked by injuries." "Them" as in the NY football Giants, so do you think Golladay or Shepard is it? I have always liked Shepard but he is another guy that can't stay healthy. 

What's not in the stats as you said - He played 10 games, including games of 5 snaps, 6 snaps and 19 snaps and games where he was playing injured. I watched some of the giants games (not fun) and I can tell you he is the one WR on the team I would roster with a LATER pick, at least before these recent reports. A very late pick on Shep I would also consider.  

I wonder what the early ADPs suggest, is the consensus that it is Golladay still or Toney taking over the top ADP spot as I would expect. 

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This lines up with my original post. The Giants aren't just going to give him away. He is young and talented. My guess is it would take a 2nd rounder or else they will just hold.

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3 hours ago, Phil Simms 11 said:

I posted "Kid looked like he would be the easy top WR for them but was sidetracked by injuries." "Them" as in the NY football Giants, so do you think Golladay or Shepard is it? I have always liked Shepard but he is another guy that can't stay healthy. 

What's not in the stats as you said - He played 10 games, including games of 5 snaps, 6 snaps and 19 snaps and games where he was playing injured. I watched some of the giants games (not fun) and I can tell you he is the one WR on the team I would roster with a LATER pick, at least before these recent reports. A very late pick on Shep I would also consider.  

I wonder what the early ADPs suggest, is the consensus that it is Golladay still or Toney taking over the top ADP spot as I would expect. 

This is true as far as those 10 games. But he also got kicked out of his "big" game for throwing a punch. There is something going on in that dude and the giants need to get down to the bottom of it to help that guy out. 

As far as the other guys, I have no idea what is to come. I would take Galladay over anyone at this point in time.  I'm staying clear of the giants in fantasy though. I saw most of their games last year and things are just wonky. Hence a  change in coaching. See what Daboll can do. 

And what's up with Barkley? I heard him in an interview and he came across pissed that people don't believe in him and he's going to prove them wrong. Might just have been a bad moment. Worst thing that could happen to that guy this year to get another injury. I think he would crack under all the frustration.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Phil Simms 11 said:

I wonder what the early ADPs suggest, is the consensus that it is Golladay still or Toney taking over the top ADP spot as I would expect. 

When it all shakes out, I'd expect Golladay to be the Giants alpha.  That's what he is being paid to be and we know he has the talent as was exhibited on some pretty awful Lions teams (and even when Stafford was out for a few games).  Maybe he did quit on his team in his last season in Detroit or maybe he was just never right health-wise - given the situation, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.  Last season the Giants were a mess and that coaching staff never really seemed to figure out how to use him.  Golladay never really struck me as a diva and all reports I've seen indicate that he is all in with the new coaching staff.  

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Mmm I don’t know, I think this new staff might take less then a 2nd round pick for a player they already see as a team problem. Imo  

Of course another injury to Barkely would be the worst thing to happen to him on the field.  

Last season Golladay was with the Gmen he avg 5 points per game 1/2 ppr games he played in, I think he did quit on the Lions in 2020, and I think he didn’t go all out last season , I think he is a deva.  I don’t care when I could draft Golladay, I would pass.  

 

 

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53 minutes ago, Showboat said:

When it all shakes out, I'd expect Golladay to be the Giants alpha.  That's what he is being paid to be and we know he has the talent as was exhibited on some pretty awful Lions teams (and even when Stafford was out for a few games).  Maybe he did quit on his team in his last season in Detroit or maybe he was just never right health-wise - given the situation, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.  Last season the Giants were a mess and that coaching staff never really seemed to figure out how to use him.  Golladay never really struck me as a diva and all reports I've seen indicate that he is all in with the new coaching staff.  

Golladay is not that good

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46 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Mmm I don’t know, I think this new staff might take less then a 2nd round pick for a player they already see as a team problem. Imo  

Who said they would take less than a second round pick for him? The Giants haven’t 

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2 hours ago, Showboat said:

Last season the Giants were a mess and that coaching staff never really seemed to figure out how to use him. 

I would argue that the Giants coaching staff never really seemed to figure out how to use anyone.

I think we may find that some of these players who were supposed to be bad players will turn out to be okay under the new coaches (assuming of course that they are reasonably decent)

1 hour ago, IGotWorms said:

Golladay is not that good

hes at least okay.   his scouting report in his draft year had a lot of nice features.  the biggest knock on him was that he couldnt beat the jam and because of that they projected hed be a top end backup.

that said he overcame enough of that to become a 2 time 1000 yard receiver in detroit.   You dont accomplish that without having a decent amount of skill and talent.

granted he did this with Stafford tossing him the ball.  Now he has Danny Dimes.   A bit of a step down and from what I can see the coaching staff didnt look like they knew how to run an offense.   So between the two his numbers regressed rather badly.

I think he can be a legit number one in the right situation, the right system and the right coaching.  I'm just not sure he can accomplish this in New York.  Hes more likely a very good #2 WR if they can draft or acquire a true #1.

I'd like to think the offense under the new regime will be a bit more than the pop gun offense that ran the last two years.   So I am predicting a better year for all offensive players.

To what degree depends on how good the coaching is.  I believe it cant get much worse than what the team had last year, so It can only get better from here.   

What I cannot tell you is to what degree.  This is a team I will be watching in the offseason.   if they can solve the line problems that will solve most of the issues on offense.  better run game, more time for Danny Dimes to throw the ball, better offense overall.   If they dont improve the line play, I predict more of the same.

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And before someone tells Ray that Stafford only played in eight games in 2019, let’s remember that without Stafford in 2019, Golladay had one 100 yard game, and scored 84 1/2 ppr points.  With Stafford he had four 100 yard games , and scored 120 1/2 ppr points.  

But in 2020 he wanted out and didn’t even give a crap.  And I think that happen again last season. 

I think Golladay desire has left the building, i wouldn’t be interested. 

2.  Who said they would only take a second round pick or better for Toney? 

I don’t need an outlet to make a statement about an situation, some do, not me, I think this new staff made a quick observation about the Toney situation, and I think they see him as a team cancer, and I don’t believe that they are just listening to offers, I think they are also reaching out to other teams to see is value.  

I hope they keep him personally, they then would have two deva wr with Taylor at Qb.  

Thanks. 

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9 minutes ago, weepaws said:

I think this new staff made a quick observation about the Toney situation, and I think they see him as a team cancer, and I don’t believe that they are just listening to offers, I think they are also reaching out to other teams to see is value.

Do you even know who the new staff is? Like what are their names? Where were they before that led you to your obviously informed conclusions? Don't cheat and look it up now...

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Thank you for the compliment. 

As for the names of the Gmen coaches, and where were they , you can check out Football Guys.  

Glad to be of help. 

Thanks. 

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Gonna take the Giants more than 1 season to dig out from the mess. I really want to see them fixing the line, starting with at least one Oline player at 5 or 7. Or trading down for multiple picks and taking 2. 
 

Giants will be taking a TE in the 3rd or 4th round I’d guess 

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Hmmm, appears as if rumors of Toney going for less than a second round pick was perhaps fake news…
 

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That makes it more likely they will take less then a second round pick for him, plus other compensation picks imo. 

One shouldn’t listen to team reports, they aren’t always the most reliable info.  

But I hope they keep him.  Two deva should them be a last place team.  

Thanks. 

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just like depth charts.

sometimes the team will fiddle with them to motivate certain players.   in the end it means little until gameday comes along.

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23 minutes ago, weepaws said:

That makes it more likely they will take less then a second round pick for him, plus other compensation picks imo. 

How does it make it more likely they would take less if they would want a significant return? As always your ‘logic’ is important for scientific purpose in the study of dementia…

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I agree with Ray, I think it’s all motivation.  I think they’ll keep him.  

 

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1 hour ago, Ray_T said:

just like depth charts.

sometimes the team will fiddle with them to motivate certain players.   in the end it means little until gameday comes along.

In the end, much ado about nothing...

 

 

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Shouldn’t listen to these reports, there like coach talk.  

 

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3 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Shouldn’t listen to these reports, there like coach talk.  

 

Shouldn’t listen to a report stating that a player is in the building? That is precisely the kind of report one with common sense would listen to since it can be so easily verified. Now as for what reports those without common sense should listen to I think you would definitely understand that better…

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Oh not about him being in the building, the early ones talking how he wasn’t.  

Looks like there isn’t much going on with this issue now.  

Those early reports can confuse you.  

Thanks. 

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2 hours ago, jrokh said:

In the end, much ado about nothing...

 

 

 

1 hour ago, weepaws said:

Shouldn’t listen to these reports, there like coach talk.  

 

 

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3 hours ago, jrokh said:

Shouldn’t listen to a report stating that a player is in the building? That is precisely the kind of report one with common sense would listen to since it can be so easily verified. Now as for what reports those without common sense should listen to I think you would definitely understand that better…

I wouldnt often say a news report is useless.   it is information (which is always useful to have)

depending on the source I'd give some reports more weight than others.   That said, if there were behavior issues in the dressing room already with this guy that doesnt bode well for once this kid becomes a star (if it happens) 

thing is the press is a wonderful cornucopia of conflicting reports at times and we as fantasy owners sometimes have to decide if we should adjust our expectations (usually related to risk) based on those reports. 

reports that may indicate a player may be in the doghouse should at least be viewed as an added risk to that players projected numbers.

reports that he has moved up or down the depth chart is usually not of any consequence unless its happening just before the season begins.

and there are some reporters I've learned who are more (or less ) reliable than others.   

if there was indeed a problem...... he is apparently now at the voluntary workouts, I'd say the odds are getting better that they try to sort it out.

keep in mind the workouts are voluntary.  so the team cannot officially penalize you for not attending, but if you dont know the playbook, it would make some sense that you would at least get the playbook, learn what you can about the new offense, run a few routes, and see if your summer workout schedule has yielded the results you wanted it to do.

Thats called being a professional.

I'd expect anyone who doesn't have a starting job locked down would be in attendance.  its the players chance to prove they deserve one.  If they dont attend, I'd also have questions about their commitment to be better.

either way, perhaps it was much ado about nothing, but multiple sources have suggested at least they are listening to offers even if they are not actively shopping him.   for a high first round pick, thats actually a bad sign at this point in this players young career so even if the reports were making more of it than they should have, I'd speculate that there is still something there.

not much more to talk about at this point.  but once a malcontent comes to camp if there are further issues those usually surface within a few days of their attendance.   So lets see if more news comes out.

I personally am hopeful that New Yorks new coaches can get that offense working.  I'm not a fan of theirs, but I think there is enough talent that that team should be doing more than it has been on offense.   dont get me wrong, I never thought this was a top end offense, but I also didnt think they should be doing what they've been doing either.   Its been pretty bad.

 

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Problem one with the Gmen is Barkely can’t stay healthy. 

Problem two their oline stinks.  

Problem three is Golladay. 

Problem four Qb, not a fan of Jones, and I think Taylor will get a lot of snaps.  

Ps I don’t know where the Gmen coaches were when I posted.  

Thanks. 

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2 hours ago, weepaws said:

Problem two their oline stinks.  

Problem three is Golladay. 

Problem four Qb, not a fan of Jones, and I think Taylor will get a lot of snaps.  

well, fixing the O line will help the other two.

Golladay runs his share of deeper routes.  He needs his QB to be able to stand in the pocket for a couple seconds on those plays.

in general most QB's at the NFL level can perform if the Line does its job.

the only question I have now is whether Danny Dimes has been ruined by playing him behind a terrible line.   It is certainly possible.   

but if they can fix the line I think the offense will take a step forward.   I realize thats a pretty big If but I believe it to be true.

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My question is can Barkely stay healthy, and how to rank him.  Based on ff that’s my only true concern with this team. 

I think Golladay has lost his desire to be great, I think he showed that his last season with the Lions, and last season with the Gmen.  

Fixing the oline indeed would help, but Taylor will be a weekly challenge to Dimes for playing time imo.  

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