OK let’s talk about the border

[BuckSwope 654]

41 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

Doesn't apply to the invasion currently underway. 

Sure it does.    Our current system is claim asylum, get a date years in the future, and welcome in.   Those people are here through legal means as we have it set up.   Now, we can argue, and probably agree that it shouldn't be that way, but it's the way it is.    They aren't illegally here unless they choose to not do that, fail to show up to court, or found out in court their claim is invalid.    

If most are either turned away or are entering through these means, then it applies.  

 

 

[BuckSwope 654]

59 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

And….

You asked why they would do that.  I thought a quote from the SoHS as to a reason why would have relevance to your question.  

[Hardcore troubadour 12,656]

6 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

You asked why they would do that.  I thought a quote from the SoHS as to a reason why would have relevance to your question.  

Well, if he’s claiming it’s fair then he’s just a liar. There’s nothing fair about that. You come here to contribute, not extract. The left loves saying this country was built on immigrants. Yeah, immigrants working, contributing and fighting if need be. There was no welfare in the past for them.   My parents are immigrants. Didn’t get a dime they didn’t earn. 

[Mike Damone 10]

22 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Sure it does.    Our current system is claim asylum, get a date years in the future, and welcome in.   Those people are here through legal means as we have it set up.   Now, we can argue, and probably agree that it shouldn't be that way, but it's the way it is.    They aren't illegally here unless they choose to not do that, fail to show up to court, or found out in court their claim is invalid.    

If most are either turned away or are entering through these means, then it applies.  

 

 

Our current system isn't how the system was supposed to work. 

[The Real timschochet 2,943]

I can’t imagine there is a single illegal immigrant who, if told there were no sanctuary cities in this country, wouldn’t have come here. I honestly don’t believe such a creature exists, 

[The Real timschochet 2,943]

54 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

What do you call it when 100's of 1,000's of people illegally cross the border of a supposedly sovereign country on a monthly basis? 

I call it an invasion. 

An invasion is a military force coming across the border. Your use of the term corrupts  the meaning of it. 

[The Real timschochet 2,943]

3 hours ago, 5-Points said:

Militarize it. Post signs declaring tresspassing forbidden. Plant mine fields and have snipers set up and eliminate cartel lookouts and anybody trying to cross illegally. 

Deport every illegal that ever comes into contact with law enforcement. Somebody here once had the great idea of giving deportees a two country penalty. Meaning we drop them two countries south of their origin and make them walk home from there. Crime victims who come into contact with law enforcement can be dropped in their home country with instructions on how to immigrate here legally. Violent criminal illegals who are caught by law enforcement will have a leg amputated prior to deportation. Get caught here again, there goes the other leg.

Minors born here to illegals will be deported with the parents to keep families together and allowed to return when they become adults. At which time they can sponsor their families if they are able to support them financially.

We have an immigration process. You don't deserve special treatment simply because you can walk here. Get in line with the rest of the world. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These sorts of policies would destroy this country. 

[5-Points 2,731]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

An invasion is a military force coming across the border. Your use of the term corrupts  the meaning of it. 

There's a military force behind the invasion taking place. And they're making billions off of it. 

 

 

 

 

[5-Points 2,731]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

These sorts of policies would destroy this country. 

No, they wouldn't 

[Pimpadeaux 2,270]

5 hours ago, JustinCharge said:

rusty believes it is our duty to make the Ukraine / Russia border an impenetrable fortress.  but laughs at doing so with our southern border.

You for years believed and predicted that our country would be in civil war at any moment, and it's not, and then you predicted nuclear war would happen by year's end, which it won't. You're a focking pathetic joke, liar and fraud, not to mention seriously mentally ill.

[The Real timschochet 2,943]

1 minute ago, 5-Points said:

There's a military force behind the invasion taking place. And they're making billions off of it. 

 

 

 

 

What? This makes no sense. 

[Pimpadeaux 2,270]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

What? This makes no sense. 

I guess we have a new right-wing conspiracy theory in its infancy. Perhaps they're part of the whole Jewish space-laser initiative. 

 

[BuckSwope 654]

15 minutes ago, Mike Damone said:

Our current system isn't how the system was supposed to work. 

No, it's not.  So we need to fix it.  It is our current system though, correct? 

[The Real timschochet 2,943]

1 minute ago, 5-Points said:

No, they wouldn't 

As I told another poster: we aren’t Nazis in this country. We will never engage in mass deportation because the public wouldn’t put up with it. And that’s a good thing. If we did we would destroy ourselves as a nation because we would give up on our ideals. 
 

I am not arguing the right of illegals to be here, nor am I arguing the justice of them staying. What I am arguing is this: they’re not going anywhere. You can arrest them but they won’t leave. And there’s too many: 11 to 15 million. They are going to be with us. Their children will be with us. If you’re going to contribute to any discussion about what to do about this situation you need to first recognize this reality. 

[BuckSwope 654]

32 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Well, if he’s claiming it’s fair then he’s just a liar. There’s nothing fair about that. You come here to contribute, not extract. The left loves saying this country was built on immigrants. Yeah, immigrants working, contributing and fighting if need be. There was no welfare in the past for them.   My parents are immigrants. Didn’t get a dime they didn’t earn. 

Was there welfare available when your parents immigrated? 

 

[5-Points 2,731]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

What? This makes no sense. 

Seriously? Are you that naive? The Mexican military has allowed the cartels to function without fear of repercussions for years. Our government has done the same. That needs to end. 

[Pimpadeaux 2,270]

1 minute ago, 5-Points said:

Seriously? Are you that naive? The Mexican military has allowed the cartels to function without fear of repercussions for years. Our government has done the same. That needs to end. 

So what do you propose gets done? Military action?

[5-Points 2,731]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

As I told another poster: we aren’t Nazis in this country. We will never engage in mass deportation because the public wouldn’t put up with it. And that’s a good thing. If we did we would destroy ourselves as a nation because we would give up on our ideals. 
 

I am not arguing the right of illegals to be here, nor am I arguing the justice of them staying. What I am arguing is this: they’re not going anywhere. You can arrest them but they won’t leave. And there’s too many: 11 to 15 million. They are going to be with us. Their children will be with us. If you’re going to contribute to any discussion about what to do about this situation you need to first recognize this reality. 

We would put up with deporting those who shouldn't be here. And there's a lot more than 15 million. Is it a herculean task? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be undertaken in the name of equity for those who deserve to be here now and in the future. 

[5-Points 2,731]

7 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

So what do you propose gets done? Military action?

Covert military action to destroy the cartels or declare Mexico a Narco State and treat them accordingly. 

Either way, we need to secure our border before we do anything. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,656]

28 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

There's a military force behind the invasion taking place. And they're making billions off of it. 

 

 

 

 

Yup. But they haven’t a clue as to what’s actually going on. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,656]

Many of them have to be deported as a deterrent. They aren’t going to pay thousands and make the dangerous trek if there’s a 25 pct chance they get the boot. 

[5-Points 2,731]

5 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Yup. But they haven’t a clue as to what’s actually going on. 

Par for the course. 

[Pimpadeaux 2,270]

8 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

Covert military action to destroy the cartels or declare Mexico a Narco State and treat them accordingly. 

Either way, we need to secure our border before we do anything. 

OK, but if this is done under Biden, MAGAtards will label him a war mongerer. If it's done under a Republitard president, it's all heroic and awesome.

I'm totally fine with U.S.-Mexico military strikes on the cartels.

This would secure our borders.

[Mike Damone 10]

29 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

No, it's not.  So we need to fix it.  It is our current system though, correct? 

It's a perversion of our system. 

[5-Points 2,731]

1 minute ago, Pimpadeaux said:

OK, but if this is done under Biden, MAGAtards will label him a war mongerer. If it's done under a Republitard president, it's all heroic and awesome.

I'm totally fine with U.S.-Mexico military strikes on the cartels.

This would secure our borders.

Seriously? If Trump did this you all would have had him strung up for war crimes for defending America's borders.

I don't care who secures the border. I would champion their efforts regardless of their political persuasions. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,656]

12 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

OK, but if this is done under Biden, MAGAtards will label him a war mongerer. If it's done under a Republitard president, it's all heroic and awesome.

I'm totally fine with U.S.-Mexico military strikes on the cartels.

This would secure our borders.

Trump was going to do it until Mexico started cooperating. Remember they put troops on their southern border to stop the flow? Leadership. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,656]

The amnesty system we have agreed to stipulates you are to seek asylum in the next country you enter. The Biden admin is ignoring that. Nothing is broken. 

[BuckSwope 654]

17 minutes ago, Mike Damone said:

It's a perversion of our system. 

Sure, and it's our fault.  As soon as we allowed the court dates to get further and further backed up, it made it easy to become so.   When people learn it's going to be months to years and they get to be released into the country, often to family, of course they are going to use that.  

[Mike Damone 10]

3 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Sure, and it's our fault.  As soon as we allowed the court dates to get further and further backed up, it made it easy to become so.   When people learn it's going to be months to years and they get to be released into the country, often to family, of course they are going to use that.  

It's not my fault. I didn't vote for those who made this their policy. I'd vote them out if my vote here in CA made a difference. 

[The Real timschochet 2,943]

7 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Many of them have to be deported as a deterrent. They aren’t going to pay thousands and make the dangerous trek if there’s a 25 pct chance they get the boot. 

Yeah they will. It never fails to shock me how many people truly don’t understand the motivation of the undocumented. If they’re already willing to risk death by coming here, you really think a threat of increased deportation will deter them? 

[The Real timschochet 2,943]

7 hours ago, 5-Points said:

Seriously? Are you that naive? The Mexican military has allowed the cartels to function without fear of repercussions for years. Our government has done the same. That needs to end. 

This has nothing to do with what I wrote, and nothing to do with the word “invasion”. 

The drug cartels are a huge problem, especially now with fentanyl, as I acknowledged in the OP. But to conflate them with the vast majority of undocumented immigrants, or the millions who seek refugee status here, both completely wrong and works against solutions. 

[The Real timschochet 2,943]

7 hours ago, 5-Points said:

We would put up with deporting those who shouldn't be here. And there's a lot more than 15 million. Is it a herculean task? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be undertaken in the name of equity for those who deserve to be here now and in the future. 

You’re living in a false reality that has little bearing on what’s actually happening IMO. 

[The Real timschochet 2,943]

6 hours ago, Mike Damone said:

It's not my fault. I didn't vote for those who made this their policy. I'd vote them out if my vote here in CA made a difference. 

It is your fault if you voted for any Republican congressperson in the last 20 years. All of them voted to cut spending on the processing of refugees at our borders, which has led to the logjam we face today. 

[5-Points 2,731]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

You’re living in a false reality that has little bearing on what’s actually happening IMO. 

Back at ya. 

[Mike Damone 10]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

It is your fault if you voted for any Republican congressperson in the last 20 years. All of them voted to cut spending on the processing of refugees at our borders, which has led to the logjam we face today. 

How much does it cost to tell people to turn around and go back to where they came from? 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,656]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Yeah they will. It never fails to shock me how many people truly don’t understand the motivation of the undocumented. If they’re already willing to risk death by coming here, you really think a threat of increased deportation will deter them? 

Yes. Why do you think so many are coming now? Biden has welcomed them, plain and simple. The word gets out. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,656]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

It is your fault if you voted for any Republican congressperson in the last 20 years. All of them voted to cut spending on the processing of refugees at our borders, which has led to the logjam we face today. 

Yeah. It’s republicans fault now. Not that they are helping much, but Biden and the democrats have taken the lead on this one. It’s not like Biden didn’t say he was going to let them in. He did.  Word gets out. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

10 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I can’t imagine there is a single illegal immigrant who, if told there were no sanctuary cities in this country, wouldn’t have come here. I honestly don’t believe such a creature exists, 

You must think that people coming here from south of the border are idiots.

Map/list of sanctuary cities, counties, and states...

https://cis.org/Map-Sanctuary-Cities-Counties-and-States

Link courtesy of @Fnord just yesterday.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/03/11/us-metro-areas-unauthorized-immigrants/

 

60% of illegals live in metro areas.  Wanna take a bet if those 20 metro areas fall on the list of the sanctuary cities and/or counties and/or states?  Also, willing to bet that the number climbs to 80% or more if you start looking at the non 20 metro areas.  I don't think it's a coincidence at all, that the majority of illegals end up in sanctuary cities or states.  They come here, claim asylum, go to a sanctuary city (or county), or state, and never show up for their court dates.  All?  No.  But its the majority.  The reason I know this is common sense.  Common sense from the perspective that the Democrats went to court to keep the number of illegals hidden by keeping it off of the 2020 census.

I'm not calling you an idiot or anything like that, but just that you're either naïve or foolish if you think that "sanctuary cities" weren't the reason the majority came here the way they did.  I'm willing to bet that if the message given to the world was that the US no longer had sanctuary cities and/or states and that immediate deportation would commence if you are found, the number of people trying to illegally cross the border would drop by over 50%.

[Pimpadeaux 2,270]

10 hours ago, 5-Points said:

Seriously? If Trump did this you all would have had him strung up for war crimes for defending America's borders.

I don't care who secures the border. I would champion their efforts regardless of their political persuasions. 

"You all?"

I would much have preferred joining Mexico for a covert military operation to take down the cartels than building that wall.

As I've mentioned a million times before, I'm a moderate conservative who thinks Trump is a crooked, arrogant, narcissistic, self-serving, braggard piece of sh!t. 

He did some decent things as president and had some solid legislation, vastly overshadowed by the things he said and did.

I much prefer a Republican administration over a Democratic one. It's better for my business.

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

8 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

I'm a moderate conservative who thinks Trump is a crooked, arrogant, narcissistic, self-serving, braggard piece of sh!t. 

First off, no, you're not a moderate conservative.  Secondly, you can replace the name "Trump" with the name of every other politician in DC and be right on 95% of them, so don't give me this sanctimonious bull crap about Trump being the biggest problem.  He came long after those morons and they're still there, so pizz off with this crap.