OK let’s talk about the border

[TBayXXXVII 2,669]

3 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

With the impending Supreme Court decision, this issue is coming to a head. And we need to seriously think about what to do. 

Anyone who read my posts at FBG knows I am a liberal and have been VERY liberal on this issue. I’ve wanted fairly open immigration, much more refugees taken in, a path to citizenship for those already here without papers, etc. I’ve implied, simplistically, that those who disagreed with me were racist- the truth is that some were, most were not. 

But it’s time to face facts. My solutions are unpopular and have no chance of being enacted. And even if they were it wouldn’t have much of an effect on the current crisis. And it is a crisis. There are too many people coming over the border. There are too many refugee applicants. It’s an economic crisis to every city that has to deal with any part of it. And the presence of fentanyl has changed the ballgame entirely and made everything much worse. 
 

So I don’t have solutions to this. The current Republican solution, as practiced by the Trump administration is too cruel for me. I can’t accept it. I regard rounding up people, and dividing families, as inhumane and un-American. I will never accept that. On the other hand, the Democratic solution of doing nothing and pretending that everything is under control is unacceptable as well. And of course both sides seem far more intent on using this issue as a political cudgel to beat their opponents than actually trying to come up with some reasonable solutions. I was all for the Thom Tillis proposal but that died a quick death as it was opposed by the radicals from the right and left. So now I have no idea what to do. Does anybody hear? I’m going to put away all of my preconceived notions and prejudices and try to listen with an open mind. Come up with something new. Please. 

0% of all ideas will succeed until we get rid of Sanctuary cities and states.  If everyone agrees to that as being Step 1, then we can proceed to Step 2. Until then, you're wasting everyone's time.

[iam90sbaby 2,727]

3 hours ago, dogcows said:

Finally, we have pretty low birth rates. So if we want our country (and its economy) to grow, we need to allow more immigration.

This isn't true and if you want birthrates to go up household incomes need to go up. You don't do that by importing cheap labor. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

3 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

This isn't true and if you want birthrates to go up household incomes need to go up. You don't do that by importing cheap labor. 

Exactly.  They don’t care that these people will be living 10 to an apartment. 

[BuckSwope 654]

28 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

This isn't true and if you want birthrates to go up household incomes need to go up. You don't do that by importing cheap labor. 

So isn't the blame on the people hiring them and giving them jobs?   Also, as we take that cheap labor away how much of the increase in income you suggest gets taken away with rising costs?  

I think the fact that they are "told" to stay out while at the same time finding jobs and opportunities is pretty pointless.  

[iam90sbaby 2,727]

20 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

So isn't the blame on the people hiring them and giving them jobs?   Also, as we take that cheap labor away how much of the increase in income you suggest gets taken away with rising costs?  

I think the fact that they are "told" to stay out while at the same time finding jobs and opportunities is pretty pointless.  

No, it's the governments fault for even giving businesses the opportunity to make that decision. 

Our birthrates should be high enough to sustain our own population, like a real country.

[BuckSwope 654]

9 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

No, it's the governments fault for even giving businesses the opportunity to make that decision. 

Our birthrates should be high enough to sustain our own population, like a real country.

That is a feature, not a bug of the system.    

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

I sure don’t like my school taxes going towards more and more ESL teachers. Never mind all the other resources the illegals are sucking up. 

[The Real timschochet 7,442]

3 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

0% of all ideas will succeed until we get rid of Sanctuary cities and states.  If everyone agrees to that as being Step 1, then we can proceed to Step 2. Until then, you're wasting everyone's time.

Why? Are you looking for some kind of mass deportation? If not, why do sanctuary cities bother you? 

[The Real timschochet 7,442]

4 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I sure don’t like my school taxes going towards more and more ESL teachers. Never mind all the other resources the illegals are sucking up. 

If there are kids here who don’t speak English would you rather they don’t learn to speak English? Or is it that you don’t want them to be in school in the first place? Would you prefer if they run around the streets during school hours? Do you think that kicking them out of school would decrease crime, or increase it? 
 

No offense, but so many of the “solutions” I hear to these problems would almost certainly make things worse. 

[TimHauck 3,307]

1 hour ago, iam90sbaby said:

This isn't true and if you want birthrates to go up household incomes need to go up. You don't do that by importing cheap labor. 

Why am I not surprised the crypto bro doesn’t actually understand how inflation works

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

If there are kids here who don’t speak English would you rather they don’t learn to speak English? Or is it that you don’t want them to be in school in the first place? Would you prefer if they run around the streets during school hours? Do you think that kicking them out of school would decrease crime, or increase it? 
 

No offense, but so many of the “solutions” I hear to these problems would almost certainly make things worse. 

I don’t want them to be in the country in the first place. They are here illegally. Why do you keep forgetting that? And the more that come, the more the places they live end up shouldering the burden. I’d rather not. 

[iam90sbaby 2,727]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

Why am I not surprised the crypto bro doesn’t actually understand how inflation works

Thats not inflation stupid. 

[TimHauck 3,307]

5 hours ago, Pimpadeaux said:

I wonder if it's possible to address the problem's root

I think the alternative answer to this is that America is great, so I’m sure the board righties will argue that this is Biden’s strategy 

[TimHauck 3,307]

2 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

Thats not inflation stupid. 

Household incomes are going up because of inflation, which is going up because of supply and demand (which you apparently also don’t understand)

[iam90sbaby 2,727]

Just now, TimHauck said:

Household incomes are going up because of inflation, which is going up because of supply and demand 

Wages going down because cheaper labor is imported isn't inflation, ffs. You can't be this stupid.

[iam90sbaby 2,727]

10 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

If there are kids here who don’t speak English would you rather they don’t learn to speak English? Or is it that you don’t want them to be in school in the first place? Would you prefer if they run around the streets during school hours? Do you think that kicking them out of school would decrease crime, or increase it? 
 

No offense, but so many of the “solutions” I hear to these problems would almost certainly make things worse. 

Deport

[TimHauck 3,307]

1 minute ago, iam90sbaby said:

Wages going down because cheaper labor is imported isn't inflation, ffs. You can't be this stupid.

I’m talking about what’s actually happening now

[iam90sbaby 2,727]

Just now, TimHauck said:

I’m talking about what’s actually happening now

No you called me out, thought you had a gotcha, but now you just look stupid 

[The Real timschochet 7,442]

7 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I don’t want them to be in the country in the first place. They are here illegally. Why do you keep forgetting that? And the more that come, the more the places they live end up shouldering the burden. I’d rather not. 

I get that you don’t want them here. But they are here. 11 to 15 million of them, undocumented. Illegal. Whatever you want to call them. They’re not going anywhere willingly. To deport them, as someone else just suggested, would cost way too much money and anyhow the public would never go for it even if it was feasible. So now what? How so we solve it? We need real solutions, not complaints or ideas that are unworkable. 

[TimHauck 3,307]

9 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

No you called me out, thought you had a gotcha, but now you just look stupid 

It’s the same point dummy.  You said you don’t want to import cheap labor because you think household incomes will go down, but aren’t factoring in if there is a labor shortage then costs will go up and your income won’t go as far.

But the “cheap labor” primarily impacts jobs that are fairly low-paying to begin with, benefitting white collar folks who pay the cheap labor for trades while simultaneously likely not impacting their own income.  Well unless that is we adopt your plan of only letting in people with bachelor’s degrees, then they’ll probably be able to do your job and take less money to do it.   So remind me who looks stupid again?  Because it sure looks like it’s you.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

9 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I get that you don’t want them here. But they are here. 11 to 15 million of them, undocumented. Illegal. Whatever you want to call them. They’re not going anywhere willingly. To deport them, as someone else just suggested, would cost way too much money and anyhow the public would never go for it even if it was feasible. So now what? How so we solve it? We need real solutions, not complaints or ideas that are unworkable. 

The only solution to not enforcing the law is that they will have to be funded. But the burden won’t be evenly distributed.  Some places will take on the burden. Some places won’t be affected. You don’t care about any solution that doesn’t make you feel virtuous. Virtuous without any sacrifice though. Fake. 

[Pimpadeaux 2,406]

6 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Democrats are using a secure border as leverage to get amnesty. WTF? We have to bargain for a secure border on our own country? Who else does that? 

Why don't you go down there and secure it with your grouchiness and retarded macho exhibitionism?

Fewer people would come to this country if they realized you were in it.

HTH.

[The Real timschochet 7,442]

11 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

The only solution to not enforcing the law is that they will have to be funded. But the burden won’t be evenly distributed.  Some places will take on the burden. Some places won’t be affected. You don’t care about any solution that doesn’t make you feel virtuous. Virtuous without any sacrifice though. Fake. 

Not sure where you’re getting that. I do want solutions. Virtue is not an issue. I want solutions that benefit all of us. 
I live in Southern California. We are very much economically affected by this issue. Both in good and bad ways. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Not sure where you’re getting that. I do want solutions. Virtue is not an issue. I want solutions that benefit all of us. 
I live in Southern California. We are very much economically affected by this issue. Both in good and bad ways. 

I’d say more bad than good. Not no good, but less than the bad. 

[The Real timschochet 7,442]

3 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

Why don't you go down there and secure it with your grouchiness and retarded macho exhibitionism?

Fewer people would come to this country if they realized you were in it.

HTH.

Dang man. 
I disagree with just about everything @Hardcore troubadour has written on this subject but he’s offering an honest opinion. What is it with everyone so quick to insult everybody else in this forum? I get that it’s not really moderated and that’s a good thing. But personal insults are just boring to read. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

Just let what I said sink in: a secure border is a bargaining chip, when it should be a necessary aspect of a safe country. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Dang man. 
I disagree with just about everything @Hardcore troubadour has written on this subject but he’s offering an honest opinion. What is it with everyone so quick to insult everybody else in this forum? I get that it’s not really moderated and that’s a good thing. But personal insults are just boring to read. 

It’s ok. He gets very upset quite easily. Pay no mind.  His emotions often have gotten the best of him and he gets banned. He’ll be ok. He has many more handles on stand by 

[Shooter McGavin 618]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Dang man. 
I disagree with just about everything @Hardcore troubadour has written on this subject but he’s offering an honest opinion. What is it with everyone so quick to insult everybody else in this forum? I get that it’s not really moderated and that’s a good thing. But personal insults are just boring to read. 

All HT does is insult people, troll, wish people's kids get raped and die in wars.  He's the worst person here so everyone treats him like the garbage he is.

But I respect your effort in trying to have a genuine conversation with him.  You'll see how frustrating that is quickly and resort to insults as well.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

Just now, Shooter McGavin said:

All HT does is insult people, troll, wish people's kids get raped and die in wars.  He's the worst person here so everyone treats him like the garbage he is.

But I respect your effort in trying to have a genuine conversation with him.  You'll see how frustrating that is quickly and resort to insults as well.

This is all so untrue. Shooter blamed a child for her own rape and then mocked and belittled her father for speaking out because he was from a lower economic class. He laughed as police brutalized him for speaking out, nothing more. I said it would be good if he had to be in that poor man’s shoes, more or less. And I stand by it. It was truly one of the most disgusting displays I have ever seen here and I reacted to it. He’s garbage. 

[Shooter McGavin 618]

He also lies about everything, and then like the mentally disturbed person he is, he accuses others of lying, and even when shown the posts, he changes topics.  Funny story, one of the many times he accused me of lying, I finally called him out on it, and we made a bet, and I was of course not lying and he paid me $25.

[The Real timschochet 7,442]

11 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

All HT does is insult people, troll, wish people's kids get raped and die in wars.  He's the worst person here so everyone treats him like the garbage he is.

But I respect your effort in trying to have a genuine conversation with him.  You'll see how frustrating that is quickly and resort to insults as well.

I won’t though. I don’t mind being insulted from time to time if it’s witty. But I try not to reciprocate much if I can help it. 

[The Real timschochet 7,442]

Just now, Shooter McGavin said:

He also lies about everything, and then like the mentally disturbed person he is, he accuses others of lying, and even when shown the posts, he changes topics.  Funny story, one of the many times he accused me of lying, I finally called him out on it, and we made a bet, and I was of course not lying and he paid me $25.

The fact that he actually paid you makes him a standup guy in my book. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

2 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

He also lies about everything, and then like the mentally disturbed person he is, he accuses others of lying, and even when shown the posts, he changes topics.  Funny story, one of the many times he accused me of lying, I finally called him out on it, and we made a bet, and I was of course not lying and he paid me $25.

The Chargers are on.  Lol. I need D Jackson to do something. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

The fact that he actually paid you makes him a standup guy in my book. 

I also won a bet once here and had the guy that lost donate the much more significant amount of money to charity and didn’t rub it in his face. Some people have class. Some have 25 dollars. 

[Shooter McGavin 618]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

The fact that he actually paid you makes him a standup guy in my book. 

Yeah but then he said he hopes my kids get raped.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

5 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Yeah but then he said he hopes my kids get raped.

And you blamed a child for her own rape. A rape where she was anally raped. And you mocked her father for justifiably speaking  out and laughed that the police beat him. Maybe my outrage got the best of me and I shouldn’t have been so literal, but the sentiment was just. And then like an immature child you claimed you were just joking, months later. You made no such claim when you thought you were right. Weak. 

[Shooter McGavin 618]

And then the lying continues.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

2 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

And then the lying continues.

Oh, you didn’t mock the father and term it a date rape( no such thing) and bring up the victims sexual history? Wow. Shamelessness is a difficult thing to combat. Oh well. You continue to confirm what a low character slug you are. 

[MDC 7,881]

19 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

The fact that he actually paid you makes him a standup guy in my book. 

HT welched on his bet with me and Worms though, and he’s lied about it for years. 

[Cdub100 3,995]

Get rid of the 1965 immigration act and go back to what we did before that was passed. It's been down hill ever since..