Debt Ceiling 2023

[RLLD 4,143]

What happens if the US hits the debt ceiling?

 

Recently I observed the WH Press Sec say that they will "not negotiate on this" as it pertains to adjusting the WH budget proposal vs raising the ceiling.

So we can expect the Democrats to continue to say "we will not move" and demand the Republicans acquiesce to them....as usual...   The Democrats position is "give me my way, no negotiation...."

I look at the House now and I see a group of Republicans that might just stand up to them, and not allow their bully tactics to work....

Obviously that has consequences, but so too does the reckless Democrat agenda.  This is going to be interesting. 

[Strike 5,185]

Most people understand budgeting.  If the GOP would just be honest and tell people how it is, and that we can't sustain 30T+ debt, and highlight all the pork in the recent spending bills passed by the Dems, I think that would go far.  They just always suck at messaging.

[The Real timschochet 6,405]

Hopefully the Republicans will surrender. Seriously any other outcome Will lead to the possibility of economic collapse. 

[Strike 5,185]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

Hopefully the Republicans will surrender. Seriously any other outcome Will lead to the possibility of economic collapse. 

Yeah, cause god forbid we become responsible in our spending. 

[The Real timschochet 6,405]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

Yeah, cause god forbid we become responsible in our spending. 

Raising the debt ceiling is the responsible move. 
 

If you want to reduce the annual deficit (which is currently over 1 trillion), then you need to cut defense spending, and/or Social Security, and/or Medicare, and/or raise taxes. There are NO other areas that you can cut which will make the slightest bit of difference. The 4 options I just gave you (or their combination) are the ONLY 4 options. Since Republicans aren’t willing to address any of these (other than maybe raising the SS age very slightly) I don’t believe they’re serious about discussing the budget. This is all show. 

[Strike 5,185]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Raising the debt ceiling is the responsible move. 
 

If you want to reduce the annual deficit (which is currently over 1 trillion), then you need to cut defense spending, and/or Social Security, and/or Medicare, and/or raise taxes. There are NO other areas that you can cut which will make the slightest bit of difference. The 4 options I just gave you (or their combination) are the ONLY 4 options. Since Republicans aren’t willing to address any of these (other than maybe raising the SS age very slightly) I don’t believe they’re serious about discussing the budget. This is all show. 

Whatever.  As if you've looked at the U.S. budget.  Just keep repeating your talking points, soldier!!!

[The Real timschochet 6,405]

Just now, Strike said:

Whatever.  As if you've looked at the U.S. budget.  Just keep repeating your talking points, soldier!!!

What, specifically, did I get wrong? 

[Strike 5,185]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

What, specifically, did I get wrong? 

No.  Answer me this.  Have you done a line by line analysis of the U.S. budget?  Have you even opened it, period?

[The Real timschochet 6,405]

15 minutes ago, Strike said:

No.  Answer me this.  Have you done a line by line analysis of the U.S. budget?  Have you even opened it, period?

No. Tell me what I got wrong. 

[Strike 5,185]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

No. Tell me what I got wrong. 

Pass.  If you won't even acknowledge your ignorance on the topic it's not worth discussing with you.

[The Real timschochet 6,405]

6 minutes ago, Strike said:

Pass.  If you won't even acknowledge your ignorance on the topic it's not worth discussing with you.

https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-budget/where-do-our-federal-tax-dollars-go

59% of the budget goes to Medicare, Social Security and Defense. These are the areas you would have to cut to make any significant dent. Or else you have to raise taxes. Tell me what I got wrong. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,922]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-budget/where-do-our-federal-tax-dollars-go

59% of the budget goes to Medicare, Social Security and Defense. These are the areas you would have to cut to make any significant dent. Tell me what I got wrong. 

Let’s do the easy part first. No more bullshit pork and green energy garbage. Crazy, right? 

[Strike 5,185]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-budget/where-do-our-federal-tax-dollars-go

59% of the budget goes to Medicare, Social Security and Defense. These are the areas you would have to cut to make any significant dent. Tell me what I got wrong. 

Wow, a liberal think tank as a source.  Not saying they're wrong, but I trust them about as much as I trust you as a source.  At least you confirmed what I said.  You haven't looked at the actual budget.  You're just repeating talking points from your masters.  Pass.

[The Real timschochet 6,405]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Let’s do the easy part first. No more bullshit pork and green energy garbage. Crazy, right? 

That won’t help. i

 

the main cause of our current deficit is the Trump tax cut: 

https://www.propublica.org/article/national-debt-trump/amp

[MTSkiBum 1,620]

5 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Let’s do the easy part first. No more bullshit pork and green energy garbage. Crazy, right? 

 

The US government spends ~115 billion a year on all energy sources, not just green. Even if all of the green energy was cut the deficit does not move.

 

https://www.usaspending.gov/agency/department-of-energy?fy=2023

[RLLD 4,143]

3 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

Just because 59% of the budget goes to these things doesn't make them the "easiest" to cut. What about the one item that gets like 2% or 10%? 

I could say that 59% of my budget goes to my household expenses (mortgage, utilities, water, garbage). I am not going to cut on those things because I need them to run my house. I could cut back on the smaller items like Netflix/Hulu subscriptions. Might not be much, but it's some. 

Cut 3 or 4 of the 2 to 5% items and you can cut 20%. Cut 20% of the medicare or SS spending and you are focking a LOT of people over. 

Correct.  There is no shortage of money being wasted.  Let's start with that.   Work from there. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,922]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

That won’t help. i

 

the main cause of our current deficit is the Trump tax cut: 

https://www.propublica.org/article/national-debt-trump/amp

So the pork never gets cut then. Brilliant. It’s almost like they can trick morons in to saying that, by pumping up the deficit and then comparing it to the pork and then claiming the pork is small in comparison. So they still get paid.  

[Hardcore troubadour 14,922]

3 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

 

The US government spends ~115 billion a year on all energy sources, not just green. Even if all of the green energy was cut the deficit does not move.

 

https://www.usaspending.gov/agency/department-of-energy?fy=2023

So? It’s still bullshit and its easy to cut. What’s the problem? 

[posty 2,611]

Just get rid of the debt ceiling completely, neither side, especially Democrats, don't care about the debt, so why bother dealing with this every so often...

I mean, it is just money, right?

[Hardcore troubadour 14,922]

They use the pork to get votes and reward their donors. Why are you all so good with that? 

[MTSkiBum 1,620]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

So? It’s still bullshit and its easy to cut. What’s the problem? 

Infrastructure and energy spending are both very important in my opinion. We need to stay on the cutting edge of energy to stay a global power.

Military and other pork projects would have a larger effect in short term budget and would not have a negative effect in the long term.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,922]

1 minute ago, MTSkiBum said:

Infrastructure and energy spending are both very important in my opinion. We need to stay on the cutting edge of energy to stay a global power.

Military and other pork projects would have a larger effect in short term budget and would not have a negative effect in the long term.

I’m talking about the green energy bullshit that’s being subsidized. Let the green energy industrial complex sink or swim on its own.  Obama already wasted 500 million on it. 

[RLLD 4,143]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I’m talking about the green energy bullshit that’s being subsidized. Let the green energy industrial complex sink or swim on its own.  Obama already wasted 500 million on it. 

That should also be cut IN FULL.

Cut away!  There should be criteria for spending, any submission for funding should meet a specific set criteria. 

1) Lower costs for the government or improve infrastructure

2) Benefit a minimum set of citizens (hopefully get them out of the business of buying minority votes)

3) Improve government performance/efficiency

I am sure we can create more.....

[MDC 7,122]

The fiscal hawks took 4 years off but they’re back.

[Cdub100 3,826]

The Rusty Republicans are weak and will fold like they always do. Sure they bark a lot but dems will get everything they want. 

Continue to raise the debt, increase inflation and lower the buying power of the dollar. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,922]

6 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

The Rusty Republicans are weak and will fold like they always do. Sure they bark a lot but dems will get everything they want. 

Continue to raise the debt, increase inflation and lower the buying power of the dollar. 

Probably. But pork is about more than it’s rank in the budget. It needs to be reigned in. 

[The Real timschochet 6,405]

I’m fine with cutting a lot of green spending. Just don’t pretend it will make any difference to the annual deficit. It won’t. 

[The Real timschochet 6,405]

1 hour ago, RLLD said:

Correct.  There is no shortage of money being wasted.  Let's start with that.   Work from there. 

OK where can we cut that would make a significant difference? 
 

See to me the problem is that Republicans always choose stuff that they know will fire up the base: cut foreign spending, aid to Ukraine, Green spending, etc. And then they go after pork projects which are often infuriating to them but are small time in relationship to the actual budget. They’re not serious about this, never have been. 
 

During the Trump years Republicans voted to raise the debt ceiling four times without the slightest hesitancy or objection. Suddenly it’s all about “being responsible.” Give me a break. 

[MTSkiBum 1,620]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’m fine with cutting a lot of green spending. Just don’t pretend it will make any difference to the annual deficit. It won’t. 

Why?

 

Even if you do not believe in global warming cars produce many pollutants that negatively effect air quality, same for coal and gas power plants. Even without global warming we should invest in green energy for our health.

This is a drop in the bucket of the total spending and should be increased if anything.

 

[RLLD 4,143]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

OK where can we cut that would make a significant difference? 
 

See to me the problem is that Republicans always choose stuff that they know will fire up the base: cut foreign spending, aid to Ukraine, Green spending, etc. And then they go after pork projects which are often infuriating to them but are small time in relationship to the actual budget. They’re not serious about this, never have been. 
 

During the Trump years Republicans voted to raise the debt ceiling four times without the slightest hesitancy or objection. Suddenly it’s all about “being responsible.” Give me a break. 

The short answer is.....anywhere, and anything....it will all make a difference.  Stop spending on stupid social programs, or pet projects....and wasting our money.

I do not need a big cut for it to mean something.  Start small and work your way up.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,922]

Pork is the reward for the votes and the contributions.  No one should be ok with it anymore. 

[The Real timschochet 6,405]

1 hour ago, MTSkiBum said:

Why?

 

Even if you do not believe in global warming cars produce many pollutants that negatively effect air quality, same for coal and gas power plants. Even without global warming we should invest in green energy for our health.

This is a drop in the bucket of the total spending and should be increased if anything.

 

I think the answer is nuclear fusion and I want to concentrate almost solely on that. To me solar is a waste of time because it will never pay for itself. 

[The Real timschochet 6,405]

1 hour ago, RLLD said:

The short answer is.....anywhere, and anything....it will all make a difference.  Stop spending on stupid social programs, or pet projects....and wasting our money.

I do not need a big cut for it to mean something.  Start small and work your way up.

That’s fine but you can’t support holding up raising the debt ceiling to get it. The consequences will be terrible. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,922]

Plant more trees. A lot more. We can start by getting rid of some golf courses and cemeteries.  The two biggest wastes of prime real estate. I tell ya. 

[RLLD 4,143]

37 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

That’s fine but you can’t support holding up raising the debt ceiling to get it. The consequences will be terrible. 

Agree. It would make the most sense for each side to give a little.  But the Democrats have already said they will not give an inch.  But, why? Why not be responsible?

Didn't they declare themselves the "adults"?  Don't they portray themselves as being the smart ones? 

 

[MTSkiBum 1,620]

55 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I think the answer is nuclear fusion and I want to concentrate almost solely on that. To me solar is a waste of time because it will never pay for itself. 

Nuclear fusion is 50+ years out. 

It takes 10-15 years to build a full scale power plant.

It takes 10-15 years to build a scale model plant.

It will take at least 15-30 years to discover how to get more energy out of a cold fusion reaction compared to what you put in.

 

What should we do in the short term? Burn coal and gas? 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,922]

2 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

Nuclear fusion is 50+ years out. 

It takes 10-15 years to build a full scale power plant.

It takes 10-15 years to build a scale model plant.

It will take at least 15-30 years to discover how to get more energy out of a cold fusion reaction compared to what you put in.

 

What should we do in the short term? Burn coal and gas? 

Yeah. Burn coal, burn gas, use solar and wind where it makes sense. Doing it all at once is really stupid. What happened to easing into it? 

[Voltaire 5,182]

4 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

OK where can we cut that would make a significant difference? 
 

See to me the problem is that Republicans always choose stuff that they know will fire up the base: cut foreign spending, aid to Ukraine, Green spending, etc. And then they go after pork projects which are often infuriating to them but are small time in relationship to the actual budget. They’re not serious about this, never have been. 
 

During the Trump years Republicans voted to raise the debt ceiling four times without the slightest hesitancy or objection. Suddenly it’s all about “being responsible.” Give me a break. 

 

Once upon a time, in a nearly forgotten era, in a time before George Washington statues were torn down/removed, before vice presidents would raise money to bail arsonists out of prison and before the transgender thought police had overran/corrupted every institution, deficit reduction was my #1 priority.

At that time, Republicans were ongoing massive hypocrites on the issue of deficit reduction, and I was fully aware that I had battered spouse syndrome.

[Cdub100 3,826]

Did the republicans fold yet?

[Voltaire 5,182]

1 hour ago, Cdub100 said:

Did the republicans fold yet?

Janet Yellen is taking "extraordinary measures" which enables Republicans to engage in their version of virtue signaling for a few months and put off folding until ~June. Expect four months of strutting around like peacocks before they "get serious" and cave.