Biden should deal with the border issue, but he’ll win anyhow.

[Horseman 2,438]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Migrants sleeping in cars in NYC. In January. Very humane. 

Keep busing them north, especially this time of year.  

[RLLD 4,200]

11 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Keep busing them north, especially this time of year.  

I think spreading the obligation of dealing with this catastrophe is fine; and I DO submit that sharing it with those who have effectively encouraged it with their words and positions is pointedly fair.

That being said, we should avoid acting out of malice.  That is the behavior, on the part of the current administration, which has led to this problem.

Let's not allow ourselves the luxury of becoming that which we might oppose.  JMHO

[seafoam1 2,926]

On 1/11/2024 at 11:30 AM, RLLD said:

I think spreading the obligation of dealing with this catastrophe is fine; and I DO submit that sharing it with those who have effectively encouraged it with their words and positions is pointedly fair.

That being said, we should avoid acting out of malice.  That is the behavior, on the part of the current administration, which has led to this problem.

Let's not allow ourselves the luxury of becoming that which we might oppose.  JMHO

That's like telling your neighbor to avoid buying a new car if can't afford it. But then they go out and buy a new car and after 6 months can't afford the payments anymore and they whine to you. Are you going to pay the car off for them? Nah. They need to learn their lesson. You may tell them to stop their spending as a solution moving forward but you are not responsible for the debt.

Liberal states want the borders open while conservatives don't want it, which means it's on the libs. Sure the conservatives can't start killing illegals, but they can gear the system in their states to not take on that responsibility. Malice would be shooting the illegals and/or the liberals to get back at them. Putting the responsibility on these self important sanctuary cities is not malice. It's what they wanted. And they got what they wanted. They just blew it when they made their wish by not being clear with their message or by simply being stupid with their message. Probably the latter. 

[RLLD 4,200]

10 hours ago, seafoam1 said:

That's like telling your neighbor to avoid buying a new car if can't afford it. But then they go out and buy a new car and after 6 months can't afford the payments anymore and they whine to you. Are you going to pay the car off for them? Nah. They need to learn their lesson. You may tell them to stop their spending as a solution moving forward but you are not responsible for the debt.

Liberal states want the borders open while conservatives don't want it, which means it's on the libs. Sure the conservatives can't start killing illegals, but they can gear the system in their states to not take on that responsibility. Malice would be shooting the illegals and/or the liberals to get back at them. Putting the responsibility on these self important sanctuary cities is not malice. It's what they wanted. And they got what they wanted. They just blew it when they made their wish by not being clear with their message or by simply being stupid with their message. Probably the latter. 

I am not enthused with your analogy.   Cars vs humans and what not.

The Democrats are using this gambit to appease their radical elements, and their business cronies who want cheap labor.  But in the end they hope to infuse enough new voters that might be loyal to them to suppress opposition.

So the Democrats are feeding into corporate cronyism who are seeking to bloat the available workforce so as to diminish the power of employees by eliminating scarcity. And with hit they can perhaps tilt the voter base to as to establish a socialist order, with corporations running the system.

It's a rather evil plan. 

[seafoam1 2,926]

1 hour ago, RLLD said:

I am not enthused with your analogy.   Cars vs humans and what not.

The Democrats are using this gambit to appease their radical elements, and their business cronies who want cheap labor.  But in the end they hope to infuse enough new voters that might be loyal to them to suppress opposition.

So the Democrats are feeding into corporate cronyism who are seeking to bloat the available workforce so as to diminish the power of employees by eliminating scarcity. And with hit they can perhaps tilt the voter base to as to establish a socialist order, with corporations running the system.

It's a rather evil plan. 

But even IF the illegals vote democrat, by doing what the conservative states are doing is sticking the illegals in liberal-democrat dominant states already. Let's hope that backfires on the libs, but if not, no loss because of the electoral college. 

The liberals are a non comprimising lot. Give to them what they demand for conservatives. They don't like that but ir's like throwing back the grenade at them that they just threw at conservatives. Just say 'no' to stupidity. 

[RLLD 4,200]

1 hour ago, seafoam1 said:

But even IF the illegals vote democrat, by doing what the conservative states are doing is sticking the illegals in liberal-democrat dominant states already. Let's hope that backfires on the libs, but if not, no loss because of the electoral college. 

The liberals are a non comprimising lot. Give to them what they demand for conservatives. They don't like that but ir's like throwing back the grenade at them that they just threw at conservatives. Just say 'no' to stupidity. 

Liberals do not need help in these areas where they already have some dominance.

they are keen to ensure these people are populating areas where they do not already have some voting dominance 

[seafoam1 2,926]

18 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Liberals do not need help in these areas where they already have some dominance.

they are keen to ensure these people are populating areas where they do not already have some voting dominance 

Right. That's why conservatives just bus them into liberal run areas. It's a good plan since they refuse to close the border.

[RLLD 4,200]

1 minute ago, seafoam1 said:

Right. That's why conservatives just bus them into liberal run areas. It's a good plan since they refuse to close the order.

Agree. And since These locations want to use this entire game to puff out their chests and decry their moral superiority through “we are a sanctuary city” …which of course invites illegal immigration…..they can reap what they sow….why should other locations pay for their silly game…..let them enjoy the consequences of it

[seafoam1 2,926]

4 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Agree. And since These locations want to use this entire game to puff out their chests and decry their moral superiority through “we are a sanctuary city” …which of course invites illegal immigration…..they can reap what they sow….why should other locations pay for their silly game…..let them enjoy the consequences of it

obama flat out had them kicked off Martha's Vineyard the same day they were sent there. But that only got moments in the spotlight. Mere moments in the big picture. Yet he's the driving force of the democratic party. But open borders was never his thing I guess. He was the creator of "kids in cages" that rachel maddow cried about all of a sudden when Trump became president.

He was more into human political and social identity around race and sex distinctions as being the most important part of a nation for some reason. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,267]

Donors vs Voters. Not surprisingly, the liberals side with the donors, as directed. 

[RLLD 4,200]

 

When caught on her lie, she deftly skirts it

[The Real timschochet 6,640]

Terrific opinion piece in the Washington Post this morning:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/01/18/border-migrants-gop-immigration/

It makes a very reasonable argument as to why current Republican proposals to secure the border would have little to no effect on the flow of migrants. The Democrats don’t have any good ideas either. What is needed is more creative approaches of the sort that are impossible given today’s xenophobic attitudes on this issue. 

[seafoam1 2,926]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Terrific opinion piece in the Washington Post this morning:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/01/18/border-migrants-gop-immigration/

It makes a very reasonable argument as to why current Republican proposals to secure the border would have little to no effect on the flow of migrants. The Democrats don’t have any good ideas either. What is needed is more creative approaches of the sort that are impossible given today’s xenophobic attitudes on this issue. 

The only creative approach needed is to shut down the border from people coming here. How about this for a great idea. Let's solve the problems with the homeless people in this country first before letting anyone else in?

How about that? But you don't give a fock because you want cheap labor and to give no benefits. Dude steps on a rusty nail in one of your shlthole run down buildings, and he's on his own. You'll only pay him his $5 an hour for the hours he worked that day and you'll tell to go away. 

You are the problem. 

[RLLD 4,200]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Terrific opinion piece in the Washington Post this morning:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/01/18/border-migrants-gop-immigration/

It makes a very reasonable argument as to why current Republican proposals to secure the border would have little to no effect on the flow of migrants. The Democrats don’t have any good ideas either. What is needed is more creative approaches of the sort that are impossible given today’s xenophobic attitudes on this issue. 

I understand.  I really do.

But I submit that we still try it, regardless of the thoughts of those presently allowing it to be a catastrophe.  JMHO

In parallel, I would like to see some action to secure the border on the part of the WH and Congress FIRST. Deal with the immediate damage, handle it....stop pretending we need to look at root causes....

Lets just be able to admit here that Democrats want open borders and Republicans want strong borders. That are at opposite ends of this one.

[The Real timschochet 6,640]

12 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

The only creative approach needed is to shut down the border from people coming here. How about this for a great idea. Let's solve the problems with the homeless people in this country first before letting anyone else in?

How about that? But you don't give a fock because you want cheap labor and to give no benefits. Dude steps on a rusty nail in one of your shlthole run down buildings, and he's on his own. You'll only pay him his $5 an hour for the hours he worked that day and you'll tell to go away. 

You are the problem. 

I don’t think simple, lazy solutions to complicated problems ever work. But it’s looks like we’re going to find out, once again, the hard way…

[seafoam1 2,926]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t think simple, lazy solutions to complicated problems ever work. But it’s looks like we’re going to find out, once again, the hard way…

It's always the guys who think they have the brains that want to make solutions more complex than they need to be. All that does is muck things up even more. Sometimes you just gotta take a step back to see what you've been doing wrong. 

[The Real timschochet 6,640]

10 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I understand.  I really do.

But I submit that we still try it, regardless of the thoughts of those presently allowing it to be a catastrophe.  JMHO

In parallel, I would like to see some action to secure the border on the part of the WH and Congress FIRST. Deal with the immediate damage, handle it....stop pretending we need to look at root causes....

Lets just be able to admit here that Democrats want open borders and Republicans want strong borders. That are at opposite ends of this one.

Well obviously I disagree. The border is a crisis right now but it’s not a catastrophe, and the point of the opinion piece I linked is that the solutions you want to try will only make things worse not better. 
As to your last point, there are no Democrats who want “open borders”. I want more open immigration, never open borders, but unfortunately there are far too few Democrats who even want that. What Democrats want is to avoid Republican solutions which to liberals come across as cruel or too draconian. Other than that they have few solutions to offer (as the opinion piece also points out.) 

[The Real timschochet 6,640]

1 minute ago, seafoam1 said:

It's always the guys who think they have the brains that want to make solutions more complex than they need to be. All that does is muck things up even more. Sometimes you just gotta take a step back to see what you've been doing wrong. 

More than actual policy positions, the worst aspect, IMO, of the Trump era is a return, by conservatives, to anti-intellectualism. I say return because conservatives have had these attitudes before, in the 1950s, the 1920s, the 1850s. You guys disdain experts and yearn for simplistic solutions that usually make things worse. Your attitudes toward immigration, Covid, climate science, gender issues, our international commitments,  racism- all part of the same problem. 

[RLLD 4,200]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Well obviously I disagree. The border is a crisis right now but it’s not a catastrophe, and the point of the opinion piece I linked is that the solutions you want to try will only make things worse not better. 
As to your last point, there are no Democrats who want “open borders”. I want more open immigration, never open borders, but unfortunately there are far too few Democrats who even want that. What Democrats want is to avoid Republican solutions which to liberals come across as cruel or too draconian. Other than that they have few solutions to offer (as the opinion piece also points out.) 

It is now both a crisis AND a catastrophe.  And it could have been avoided. And to hear some of the explanations, like we need people to pick berries......I mean, what the hell is wrong with these people?

Are they really so desperate for power, that they are willing to secure it from the misery of these people?

[The Real timschochet 6,640]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

It is now both a crisis AND a catastrophe.  And it could have been avoided. And to hear some of the explanations, like we need people to pick berries......I mean, what the hell is wrong with these people?

Are they really so desperate for power, that they are willing to secure it from the misery of these people?

How will the conservative solutions alleviate any of the misery? 

[RLLD 4,200]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

How will the conservative solutions alleviate any of the misery? 

First and foremost, the implication of not being able to access stems the tide....does not erase it, but diminishes the scale.  People are keenly aware that they can leave their locality and come here to secure free food and services, the enticement is just too much.  This nation is the most free, least racist, more ordered and fair place ever to exist....and people around the world know it....

Stop them at the border and we stem the tide, this must happen immediately.

[seafoam1 2,926]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

More than actual policy positions, the worst aspect, IMO, of the Trump era is a return, by conservatives, to anti-intellectualism. I say return because conservatives have had these attitudes before, in the 1950s, the 1920s, the 1850s. You guys disdain experts and yearn for simplistic solutions that usually make things worse. Your attitudes toward immigration, Covid, climate science, gender issues, our international commitments,  racism- all part of the same problem. 

Making solutions and policies unwieldy and full of red tape is the government way. That's why going to the DMV is focking nightmare half the time. 

Anything the government runs is so overfilled with garbage rules and heavy processes and backward technology and THAT's what you call 'intellectual'. 

And this is what you and the liberal democrats choose to want. Big bad ass government running your lives. 

Our government puts out bills that they label as one thing, but then they pack it full of other and if someone doesn't vote for it for because of that other shlt, then they get ridiculed for not voting for the name they put on the bill.

Big government run complex solutions is not my definition of being 'intellectual'. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,267]

Marx was an intellectual. Never worked a day in his life, but he had all that intellect.  

[seafoam1 2,926]

3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Marx was an intellectual. Never worked a day in his life, but he had all that intellect.  

Tim fancies himself an intellect by paying illegals slave wages for heavy labor with no benefits. 

By his own words homeless people take shlts in his broken down buildings and he throws the illegals a couple bucks to clean it up.

He's one of the great intellects of this century. 

[The Real timschochet 6,640]

6 minutes ago, RLLD said:

First and foremost, the implication of not being able to access stems the tide....does not erase it, but diminishes the scale.  People are keenly aware that they can leave their locality and come here to secure free food and services, the enticement is just too much.  This nation is the most free, least racist, more ordered and fair place ever to exist....and people around the world know it....

Stop them at the border and we stem the tide, this must happen immediately.

You have, IMO, two false assumptions here: the first is that people are coming here because of “free food and services”. The second is that you can somehow convince them not to come here. 

[The Real timschochet 6,640]

5 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Tim fancies himself an intellect by paying illegals slave wages for heavy labor with no benefits. 

By his own words homeless people take shlts in his broken down buildings and he throws the illegals a couple bucks to clean it up.

He's one of the great intellects of this century. 

Another aspect of lazy, dumb downed thinking is to resort to personal attacks rather than debating an actual position. Carry on. 

[RLLD 4,200]

12 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

You have, IMO, two false assumptions here: the first is that people are coming here because of “free food and services”. The second is that you can somehow convince them not to come here. 

We can agree to disagree on the why.  I surmise you see people from a utopian perspective, but I have been to the places these people are coming from....I assure you, they know they can come here and secure access to free services and the like. That is the initial motivation. But when I note the additional items, they also know that the narratives here which lie about racism and the like are completely false, and the socialist hell holes they see to escape are far less equitable than things are here....and that is always going to have an allure.... none of this justifies illegal immigration.

They can be convinced not to come, just as they were convinced to come initially....both are possible.  It is not a final solution....just a move in the right direction. A more long term solution must come from Democrats relenting on open borders and acquiescing to the simple ask from their counterparts to just enforce the laws we already have.

Past that, both sides finding a reasonable compromise, the absolutism needs to end....and it starts with the cessation of labelling people who object as "racist" or some other phobic excrement....

[seafoam1 2,926]

15 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Another aspect of lazy, dumb downed thinking is to resort to personal attacks rather than debating an actual position. Carry on. 

It's not a personal attack. It's the truth and it tells the background of why you want open borders. A reason that I think is ludicrous and absolutely wrong on all fronts. 

It's not an attack to be 100% against what you represent in this country. It's the position I hold.

[Stryker Ryker 188]

Biden threatening Texas if they don’t let his ppl in so they can reopen the border  Democrats gonna FAFO when they get popped between the eyes 

[BuckSwope 654]

44 minutes ago, RLLD said:

We can agree to disagree on the why.  I surmise you see people from a utopian perspective, but I have been to the places these people are coming from....I assure you, they know they can come here and secure access to free services and the like. That is the initial motivation. But when I note the additional items, they also know that the narratives here which lie about racism and the like are completely false, and the socialist hell holes they see to escape are far less equitable than things are here....and that is always going to have an allure.... none of this justifies illegal immigration.

They can be convinced not to come, just as they were convinced to come initially....both are possible.  It is not a final solution....just a move in the right direction. A more long term solution must come from Democrats relenting on open borders and acquiescing to the simple ask from their counterparts to just enforce the laws we already have.

Past that, both sides finding a reasonable compromise, the absolutism needs to end....and it starts with the cessation of labelling people who object as "racist" or some other phobic excrement....

How high on your lists of reasons they are here is because they also know they will find work? 

These people also often get here by paying 1000s to traffickers- can't pay that back with benefits. Free benifits are part of the equation, bit imo the whole country (R and D) are more than happy to hire them and make profits off these people.  

[RLLD 4,200]

18 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

How high on your lists of reasons they are here is because they also know they will find work? 

These people also often get here by paying 1000s to traffickers- can't pay that back with benefits. Free benifits are part of the equation, bit imo the whole country (R and D) are more than happy to hire them and make profits off these people.  

Politicians have historically only been too happy to serve their back room money changers, of course. But this instance is clearly one where Democrats feel they can pull in enough future voters to suppress the voting voice of their opponents. This they do behind their standard faux veil of moral superiority.

People here in this nation are getting wise to it, and understand that this little move would not only suppress alternative ideas, but also result in lower compensation across the board; notably for historically disenfranchised people, and their voices are growing.....

People come here for many reasons, free stuff is integral to it, but also due to the promise of a meritocracy...... and it is at this point where those on the right and I start to get abrasive....

My point being that the more Democrats try to enact policies that lead us to look like the places these people have escaped, notably embracing marxist dogma, the more these folks will vote for simple and sane policies arising from the right.

There is nothing wrong with controlling, or limiting, immigration.

[BuckSwope 654]

8 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Politicians have historically only been too happy to serve their back room money changers, of course. But this instance is clearly one where Democrats feel they can pull in enough future voters to suppress the voting voice of their opponents. This they do behind their standard faux veil of moral superiority.

People here in this nation are getting wise to it, and understand that this little move would not only suppress alternative ideas, but also result in lower compensation across the board; notably for historically disenfranchised people, and their voices are growing.....

People come here for many reasons, free stuff is integral to it, but also due to the promise of a meritocracy...... and it is at this point where those on the right and I start to get abrasive....

My point being that the more Democrats try to enact policies that lead us to look like the places these people have escaped, notably embracing marxist dogma, the more these folks will vote for simple and sane policies arising from the right.

There is nothing wrong with controlling, or limiting, immigration.

Yeah, I don't buy this as much as the Geek Club seems to.  If it's true, the Dems are dumber than I thought since the vote is starting to change from what Ive read.   I truly don't understand how people think only one side of the aisle benefits from the border as is and its by design, not accident.  

As for your last statement, I certainly never said there is something wrong with that.  I want that, I just don't agree with the solutions and root issues I usually see floated in these discussions.   Walls and saying it's because of votes aren't it, and for sure neither is ramping up benefits as we saw during this administration.  

 

[RLLD 4,200]

12 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Yeah, I don't buy this as much as the Geek Club seems to.  If it's true, the Dems are dumber than I thought since the vote is starting to change from what Ive read.   I truly don't understand how people think only one side of the aisle benefits from the border as is and its by design, not accident.  

As for your last statement, I certainly never said there is something wrong with that.  I want that, I just don't agree with the solutions and root issues I usually see floated in these discussions.   Walls and saying it's because of votes aren't it, and for sure neither is ramping up benefits as we saw during this administration.  

 

If we look at how Democrats think about minority groups it adds up.   Remember, if you dont vote for Biden "you aint black". And if there was a hint that these folks emigrating here were likely conservative voters then you would see Democrats lock that border down in hours, while Republicans demanded it stay wide open.

I have submitted, and again to the notable consternation of a set of conservatives here, that the folks emigrating here want nothing to do with much of what Democrats represent today; aside from open borders.

So later, things like supporting the mentally ill transgenders and indoctrinating kids with nearly pornographic elements will compel these people to turn away.  And this has already been demonstrated by the way, we have examples.

 

 

[RLLD 4,200]

 

[seafoam1 2,926]

2 hours ago, RLLD said:

 

Too bad the blacks don't know this. 

[RLLD 4,200]

Just now, seafoam1 said:

Too bad the blacks don't know this. 

I am making a subtle point.

When people, in general, object to the current border situation and with it the uncontrolled immigration.....they are painted as racists......and you hear things like " oh its the great white replaaaaaceeemeeent  theeorrurrrryyyy....."

We are also told that AA's cannot be racist.....because racism is about power.

SO.....give these two positions....I would welcome a liberal reconciling the two since they are in direct conflict in this video....

[seafoam1 2,926]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

I am making a subtle point.

When people, in general, object to the current border situation and with it the uncontrolled immigration.....they are painted as racists......and you hear things like " oh its the great white replaaaaaceeemeeent  theeorrurrrryyyy....."

We are also told that AA's cannot be racist.....because racism is about power.

SO.....give these two positions....I would welcome a liberal reconciling the two since they are in direct conflict in this video....

Remember kamala harris?

 

[shadrap 227]

Biden does everything to stop Texas from enforcing the border.  Biden wants an open border.  votes & all.  he is spouting off now on the border because of an election.  

[The Real timschochet 6,640]

20 minutes ago, shadrap said:

Biden does everything to stop Texas from enforcing the border.  

As he should. Because Texas wants to shoot anyone who crosses. And while that may be hyperbole by Abbott, Texas has also demonstrated complete incompetence on this issue when they cost American taxpayers and consumers millions by slowing down trade even for a few days. 

[Horseman 2,438]

No ID to fly if you're an illegal.