Renting V Owning

[seafoam1 2,926]

9 minutes ago, nobody said:

In conclusion, it was smart to try and lean on people smarter than yourself for opinions since you aren't capable of doing it yourself, but you took them out of context and misappropriated them in many cases.  

 

You pretty much got stomped. Sorry for your loss. 

Quadrupling down on stupid may be your thing...to each their own I guess. 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

It’s still the same point fellas, you’re paying for housing either way. So the rent payment instead goes into a mortgage and then you’re acquiring an asset — the third best he ever did, per the Oracle of Omaha.

I did look into his statements a bit. Essentially the idea is a down payment is big and if you instead took that big chunk of change and invested it in the market you’d have a much greater rate of return after 30 years. That is true, though you’d be paying rent and having to live in a rental house/apartment for 30 years. Also you’re paying capital gained taxes because there’s no way to stuff that kind of money into a tax advantaged account at once.

But here’s the thing, people don’t really do 20% down payments anymore. I’m not sure what it is today because I’m not in the market but for a long time there 5% or less would suffice. Which totally wipes out the alternative reality point.

I guess the most that could be said is if you are sitting on an enormous chunk of change and you still have an extended timeline (I.e. you’re not downsizing in retirement), then it may be smartest to put as little down as possible on buying a house and put the rest in the market. You’ll have to pay PMI for a bit but it’d probably still pencil out assuming historic market rates of return generally continued. But you still buy a house.

[The Psychic Observer 498]

53 minutes ago, nobody said:

Buffet... Third best investment he ever made.  Keep in mind this man has made billions and billions of dollars and routinely shafts companies in sweetheart deals when he buys corporate bonds and stock.  And his house was still the third best investment.  Also keep in mind, he's likely just looking solely at ROI and not factoring in no matter what, he'd still have to pay for somewhere to live.

He once said that if only had to invest 500k a year, he'd make 50% return per year.  You wouldn't make 50% per year.  And before I have to hear how much someone made in any one year, please go look up what per year means.

 

If you read the article, his first and second best investment are his and his wife's wedding rings.

[nobody 2,653]

Just now, The Psychic Observer said:

If you read the article, his first and second best investment are his and his wife's wedding rings.

So seafoam is doubly stupid.  That certainly tracks.

[WhiteWonder 2,723]

I've commented on this subject in other threads. Mostly on the non financial reasons people give for one being better than the other.  Peafoam gets triggered by almost everything so he likes to get his panties in a wad and act like I'm bashing him for renting  (which would be weird since I rent). I was mainly focusing on the ideas that renting allows you to do more traveling... or that you somehow don't pay for AC but have an electric bill .

at the end of the day, everyones situation is unique and there's really not a big financial benefit for either option. I mean, some people rent because they prefer a nomadic lifestyle (even if they just think that and hardly ever move around) and some people prefer the idea of setting down roots (even if they are constantly traveling and rarely home). Your equity in your home, like any other investment, has an opportunity cost. The 500k you have in home equity could have been put into another investment if you were renting, etc. Some prefer real estate as their investment, some would prefer other types. 

About the only thing I would point to in favor of home ownership is that in a lot of areas, your monthly rent will be decently more than your monthly mortgage/taxes combined for a smaller space 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

3 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

I've commented on this subject in other threads. Mostly on the non financial reasons people give for one being better than the other.  Peafoam gets triggered by almost everything so he likes to get his panties in a wad and act like I'm bashing him for renting  (which would be weird since I rent). I was mainly focusing on the ideas that renting allows you to do more traveling... or that you somehow don't pay for AC but have an electric bill .

at the end of the day, everyones situation is unique and there's really not a big financial benefit for either option. I mean, some people rent because they prefer a nomadic lifestyle (even if they just think that and hardly ever move around) and some people prefer the idea of setting down roots (even if they are constantly traveling and rarely home). Your equity in your home, like any other investment, has an opportunity cost. The 500k you have in home equity could have been put into another investment if you were renting, etc. Some prefer real estate as their investment, some would prefer other types. 

About the only thing I would point to in favor of home ownership is that in a lot of areas, your monthly rent will be decently more than your monthly mortgage/taxes combined for a smaller space 

This is not especially accurate imo, as the only lost “opportunity cost” is in the down payment.

Otherwise, you’re still paying money for housing either way, the only question is are you fixing your costs to some extent (as with a fixed rate mortgage) and do you have an asset at the end. Those both heavily favor ownership.

But the “soft” reasons for not owning (lifestyle, etc), yes that can be true depending on the person.

[seafoam1 2,926]

2 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

I've commented on this subject in other threads. Mostly on the non financial reasons people give for one being better than the other.  Peafoam gets triggered by almost everything so he likes to get his panties in a wad and act like I'm bashing him for renting  (which would be weird since I rent). I was mainly focusing on the ideas that renting allows you to do more traveling... or that you somehow don't pay for AC but have an electric bill .

at the end of the day, everyones situation is unique and there's really not a big financial benefit for either option. I mean, some people rent because they prefer a nomadic lifestyle (even if they just think that and hardly ever move around) and some people prefer the idea of setting down roots (even if they are constantly traveling and rarely home). Your equity in your home, like any other investment, has an opportunity cost. The 500k you have in home equity could have been put into another investment if you were renting, etc. Some prefer real estate as their investment, some would prefer other types. 

About the only thing I would point to in favor of home ownership is that in a lot of areas, your monthly rent will be decently more than your monthly mortgage/taxes combined for a smaller space 

Talk about triggered. If you haven't noticed I only respond to you when you refer to me about anything. Never any other time. That tells me you are obsessed. 

[The Psychic Observer 498]

Every situation is unique but for pure financial reasons, 9/10 it is more financially sound long term to buy vs rent.  This is why residential real estate investors 9/10 make money.

[WhiteWonder 2,723]

 

3 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Talk about triggered. If you haven't noticed I only respond to you when you refer to me about anything. Never any other time. That tells me you are obsessed. 

yeah, okay "peanut" 

[seafoam1 2,926]

Just now, WhiteWonder said:

 

yeah, okay "peanut" 

Yeah. You agree. Smartest thing you said in all your time on this site. 

[nobody 2,653]

5 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

This is not especially accurate imo, as the only lost “opportunity cost” is in the down payment.

Otherwise, you’re still paying money for housing either way, the only question is are you fixing your costs to some extent (as with a fixed rate mortgage) and do you have an asset at the end. Those both heavily favor ownership.

But the “soft” reasons for not owning (lifestyle, etc), yes that can be true depending on the person.

In deed.  The piece I think people are missing is that you're leveraging that down payment 4:1 if you put 20% down.  So yeah, the housing market might go up 5% in a year, but that translates to a 25% gain on your investment.  Of course that's offset by borrowing costs, but obviously that won't overtake that leverage amount.

[MDC 7,295]

6 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

This is not especially accurate imo, as the only lost “opportunity cost” is in the down payment.

Even that isn’t much of a lost opportunity cost. The $70k I put down on my house seriously lowered my mortgage. 

Unless you’re moving around a lot and value flexibility, there is no question owning is a better investment. My mortgage is probably half of what I’d spend to rent a comparably sized house in this neighborhood.

[WhiteWonder 2,723]

7 minutes ago, MDC said:

My mortgage is probably half of what I’d spend to rent a comparably sized house in this neighborhood.

of course. and this is where I do think there is a financial argument to be made for owning. But if you buy when you are young and should be relatively risk tolerant with your investments, that down payment (yours was pretty low for your area), would be invested in stocks and more liquid to move it around as you or your adviser saw fit. Your mortgage also doesn't account for the stuff that is baked into rent prices (landscaping, maintenance, some monthly utilities like water/sewer/trash). but yeah in your area, my area, a lot of areas its still not going to touch the cost of monthly rent. 

[Horseman 2,438]

1 hour ago, nobody said:

Buffet... Third best investment he ever made.  Keep in mind this man has made billions and billions of dollars and routinely shafts companies in sweetheart deals when he buys corporate bonds and stock.  And his house was still the third best investment.  Also keep in mind, he's likely just looking solely at ROI and not factoring in no matter what, he'd still have to pay for somewhere to live.

He once said that if only had to invest 500k a year, he'd make 50% return per year.  You wouldn't make 50% per year.  And before I have to hear how much someone made in any one year, please go look up what per year means.

 

He said, "I would have made far more money had I instead rented and used the purchase money to buy stocks."  There isn't any miss-interpretation on that and simple math proves his point at a reasonable rate of return. There is no need to interject an arbitrary inflated number.

1 hour ago, nobody said:

Bogle...

The key point is "comparable place"

You're renting some shìtty apartment and comparing that to property taxes and maintenance of houses in your neighborhood.  Those aren't comparable.  You get more quality from a single family residence than you get from an apartment of similar rent to mortgage in both square footage and just overall quality of living.

Right, "comparable" then you go and do the opposite.  

1 hour ago, nobody said:

Wede ...

Nothing new here.  You may want to diversify.  Sure.  He also points to a single year as an example of stock outpacing real estate.  That's immaterial. 

This is the weakest one so far.  All it says is it's not that big of a deal which is right in some cases.

That's all I ever claimed, that's where your reading comprehension suffers.  It's situational.  I'm not defending renting in all cases, I don't rent.  I own my home.  

1 hour ago, nobody said:

Ramsey...

Yes, it's up to the person to rent or buy.  We already know that.  In your case I'm 100% sure it's better to rent than buy.  That way when your neighbors figure out what a jackass you are, you can just move.

Again, I don't rent.  But nice try.  

1 hour ago, nobody said:

In conclusion, it was smart to try and lean on people smarter than yourself for opinions since you aren't capable of doing it yourself, but you took them out of context and misappropriated them in many cases.  

 

Says the guy that took every single one out of context.  Who's reading compression is so low you probably thinks seafoam authored that post.  

[Horseman 2,438]

55 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

This is not especially accurate imo, as the only lost “opportunity cost” is in the down payment.

Otherwise, you’re still paying money for housing either way, the only question is are you fixing your costs to some extent (as with a fixed rate mortgage) and do you have an asset at the end. Those both heavily favor ownership.

But the “soft” reasons for not owning (lifestyle, etc), yes that can be true depending on the person.

You have an asset at the end in both cases.

[seafoam1 2,926]

10 minutes ago, Horseman said:

You have an asset at the end in both cases.

What's interesting is these guys use completely illogical stances on their arguments simply because their aim is to win an online argument and they think they can soak it all into their arguments without notice. For instance:

"You're renting some shìtty apartment and comparing that to property taxes"

It may be their personal experience from the past, but it's illogical to say something they have no idea about. How is it possible to give any merit to an argument that is based on lack of knowledge and high on emotion? 

 

 

[nobody 2,653]

2 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

What's interesting is these guys use completely illogical stances on their arguments simply because their aim is to win an online argument and they think they can soak it all into their arguments without notice. For instance:

"You're renting some shìtty apartment and comparing that to property taxes"

It may be their personal experience from the past, but it's illogical to say something they have no idea about. How is it possible to give any merit to an argument that is based on lack of knowledge and high on emotion? 

 

 

You said you've looked around your neighborhood and you pay less in rent then some of your neighbor's property taxes dope slap.

[nobody 2,653]

22 minutes ago, Horseman said:

He said, "I would have made far more money had I instead rented and used the purchase money to buy stocks."  There isn't any miss-interpretation on that and simple math proves his point at a reasonable rate of return. There is no need to interject an arbitrary inflated number.

Right, "comparable" then you go and do the opposite.  

That's all I ever claimed, that's where your reading comprehension suffers.  It's situational.  I'm not defending renting in all cases, I don't rent.  I own my home.  

Again, I don't rent.  But nice try.  

Says the guy that took every single one out of context.  Who's reading compression is so low you probably thinks seafoam authored that post.  

Half of what you wrote doesn't make sense based on what I wrote.  Actually most of it.

[seafoam1 2,926]

4 minutes ago, nobody said:

You said you've looked around your neighborhood and you pay less in rent then some of your neighbor's property taxes dope slap.

Yeah.And it's true.  But still you don't see it. 

You are so obsessed. You absolutely keep proving you have the mind of a person who is equipped to be an assembly line worker. Nothing else.

[The Psychic Observer 498]

Hi @seafoam1, can I ask you something?  Do you think the owner of your apartment is making money by owning this apartment and charging you rent for it?

[nobody 2,653]

Just now, seafoam1 said:

Yeah. But still you don't see it. 

You are so obsessed. You absolutely keep proving you have the mind if a person who is equiped to be an assebly line worker. Nothing else.

LOL... If you only knew.  You never will since you enjoy having your head up your ass, but if you did.

By the way, I rent, dummy.  

[seafoam1 2,926]

1 minute ago, nobody said:

LOL... If you only knew.  You never will since you enjoy having your head up your ass, but if you did.

By the way, I rent, dummy.  

I don't care what you do. You are not smart. 

Honestly, just move along. 

[nobody 2,653]

Just now, seafoam1 said:

I don't care what you do. You are not smart. 

Must ignorant people don't care that they're ignorant.

[seafoam1 2,926]

Just now, nobody said:

Must ignorant people don't care that they're ignorant.

Now I see your approach in life. Not my thing. But good for you. 

[nobody 2,653]

Just now, seafoam1 said:

Now I see your approach in life. Not my thing. But good for you. 

You know I am, but what are you?

Good one.

[seafoam1 2,926]

14 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

What's interesting is these guys use completely illogical stances on their arguments simply because their aim is to win an online argument and they think they can soak it all into their arguments without notice. For instance:

"You're renting some shìtty apartment and comparing that to property taxes"

It may be their personal experience from the past, but it's illogical to say something they have no idea about. How is it possible to give any merit to an argument that is based on lack of knowledge and high on emotion? 

 

 

Like I said, dumb people making dumb arguments thinking it gets past the smart people. It doesn't. 

[seafoam1 2,926]

7 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said:

Hi @seafoam1, can I ask you something?  Do you think the owner of your apartment is making money by owning this apartment and charging you rent for it?

Do you think your employer makes money off of your hard work? 

Bad argument. 

Next. 

[nobody 2,653]

2 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Like I said, dumb people making dumb arguments thinking it gets past the smart people. It doesn't. 

You don't even see how dumb that assertion by you is.

You live in an apartment.  The house that your comparing to very probably has more square footage, more land, a laundry room, yard space a private garage, etc.

They're getting more than you, dummy.  Or do you think your landlord is losing money renting to you?  It's just so, so dumb.

[The Psychic Observer 498]

1 minute ago, seafoam1 said:

Do you think your employer makes money off of your hard work? 

Bad argument. 

Next. 

Of course they do.  I know this, and that's another good example.  I would never argue it's more financially sound to be in my position than to be in my boss's position, or the CEO's position.

Same way you can't argue that it's more financially sound for you as the renter than the owner you makes money off you.

[seafoam1 2,926]

1 minute ago, nobody said:

You don't even see how dumb that assertion by you is.

You live in an apartment.  The house that your comparing to very probably has more square footage, more land, a laundry room, yard space a private garage, etc.

They're getting more than you, dummy.  Or do you think your landlord is losing money renting to you?  It's just so, so dumb.

I know the dollars and cents. You are trying really hard to look dumber by the post. Good for you, you are succeeding. 

[nobody 2,653]

1 minute ago, seafoam1 said:

Do you think your employer makes money off of your hard work? 

Bad argument. 

Next. 

Jesus, you really are dumb.  The implication of you assertion that your rent is less than property tax is that your landlord is losing money by renting your apartment to you. We all know that's not the case except you apparently.  That's how we all know your full of shìt, and that's how I know the only way your dumb assertion makes sense is if you're comparing your 1200 sqft apartment to a 2000 sqft single family residence.  You just get dumber and dumber.

[seafoam1 2,926]

1 minute ago, The Psychic Observer said:

Of course they do.  I know this, and that's another good example.  I would never argue it's more financially sound to be in my position than to be in my boss's position, or the CEO's position.

Same way you can't argue that it's more financially sound for you as the renter than the owner you makes money off you.

It is if you are smart. You dismiss the baggage that comes along with job titles, home ownership, and all the rest. It's small minded not see the whole picture. 

[seafoam1 2,926]

41 minutes ago, nobody said:

Jesus, you really are dumb.  The implication of you assertion that your rent is less than property tax is that your landlord is losing money by renting your apartment to you. We all know that's not the case except you apparently.  That's how we all know your full of shìt, and that's how I know the only way your dumb assertion makes sense is if you're comparing your 1200 sqft apartment to a 2000 sqft single family residence.  You just get dumber and dumber.

Who said I'm living in a 1200 sq foot apartment?

See, this and the whole comment about "shltty apartment" and the not knowing of my rent vs. property taxes and home values in my area and how big my place is, and mine and my girlfriend's lifestyle and income and how much my net worth is and my investments and blah blah blah. You should simply go back to your assembly line job and make all you can to meet this months mortgage payment.

And great, glad you are happy with your small thinking mind.

 

[The Psychic Observer 498]

2 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Who said I'm living in a 1200 sq foot apartment?

See, this and the whole comment about "shltty apartment" and the not knowing of my rent vs. property taxes and home values in my area and how big my place is, and mine and my girlfriend's lifestyle and income and how much my net wirth is and my investments and blah blah blah. You should simply go back to your assembly line job and make all you can to meet this months morgage payment.

And great, glad you are happy with your small thinking mind.

 

girlfriend?  Well now we know this is all a ruse.

[seafoam1 2,926]

2 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said:

girlfriend?  Well now we know this is all a ruse.

Yeah ok. Move along pimpledoosh. 

[Horseman 2,438]

30 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said:

Of course they do.  I know this, and that's another good example.  I would never argue it's more financially sound to be in my position than to be in my boss's position, or the CEO's position.

Same way you can't argue that it's more financially sound for you as the renter than the owner you makes money off you.

Not absolute. (But that wasn't his argument anyway)

Seafoam stated that he moved often for work, I believe.  That alone makes it likely that renting is the better choice financially.  If the landlord made a profit then it's possible both of them made the right financial decision. 

Also, if I'm not mistaken, Seafoam was a consultant?  Consultants often make more than the individual they work for.  

 

[seafoam1 2,926]

9 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Not absolute. (But that wasn't his argument anyway)

Seafoam stated that he moved often for work, I believe.  That alone makes it likely that renting is the better choice financially.  If the landlord made a profit then it's possible both of them made the right financial decision. 

Also, if I'm not mistaken, Seafoam was a consultant?  Consultants often make more than the individual they work for.  

 

I was a consultant (under various titles over the years) with Accenture for 21 years. I'm open about it now because I resigned a few months back.

I struggle with closed minded people who think in one mindset only. It's not necessarily sustainable to be tied to 1 approach only. Not thinking and practicing out of the box. . 

[The Psychic Observer 498]

2 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

I was a consultant (under various titles over the years) with Accenture for 21 years. I'm open about it now because I resigned a few months back.

I struggle with closed minded people who think in one mindset only. It's not necessarily sustainable to be tied to 1 approach. 

I can understand renting being that you're unemployed and might need to move to find a new job.  Market is hot.

[seafoam1 2,926]

2 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said:

I can understand renting being that you're unemployed and might need to move to find a new job.  Market is hot.

I got at least 20 offers since.

I don't need a new job. Hell, I'm set. Do you need a reference or something? 

[nobody 2,653]

43 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Who said I'm living in a 1200 sq foot apartment?

See, this and the whole comment about "shltty apartment" and the not knowing of my rent vs. property taxes and home values in my area and how big my place is, and mine and my girlfriend's lifestyle and income and how much my net worth is and my investments and blah blah blah. You should simply go back to your assembly line job and make all you can to meet this months mortgage payment.

And great, glad you are happy with your small thinking mind.

 

Okay.  How big is your apartment?  How big is the lot and house for the property taxes you compared it to.  What were the amenities on the house vs your apartment.  How big is your complex?  Are you in on the first floor or higher?  I'm sure you won't answer, but since you don't want people making inferences from your BS posts, I figured I'd ask.