Renting V Owning

[Hardcore troubadour 14,941]

10 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

And you think landlords don’t pass that cost on to renters?

They just eat that expense out of the goodness of their hearts?

Of course I do. I just don’t think people are factoring in some of these higher amounts when they are figuring the monthly nut. But I don’t think a comparable apt where you live is 1k more a month than where I live. 

[Alias Detective 1,389]

I hear rent to own is the bestest way to build wealth.  Especially for furniture and appliances!

[BeachGuy23 642]

30 minutes ago, Alias Detective said:

I hear rent to own is the bestest way to build wealth.  Especially for furniture and appliances!

I wonder if peafoam is a big proponent of this wealth building financial option called payday lending?

He seems to love to take his monthly rent and just light it on fire rather than taking that same money and build equity.

I'll bet he also pays some CPA firm to give him his tax refund early "for a small fee."

I'll stop.  It's not nice to make fun of the clearly mentally challenged. 

[Horseman 2,367]

Always smart to log in with the different alias after getting creamed the day prior.   

[Horseman 2,367]

1 hour ago, IGotWorms said:

 

 

I told you the secret already:

1. Put x percentage of your holdings in a low cost index fund that tracks the s & p 500, between 60-90% depending on your age and retirement horizon. (Less if you’re already retired)

2. Put the rest in a low cost total bond market fund.

Or you can use the “default” target retirement funds that you’re dogging, as they basically do the same thing. I find they’re a tad conservative for my taste but if you want to just “set it and forget it” they are a perfectly fine option.

You, on the other hand, are needlessly over complicating things. You are very unlikely to beat the market over time and will likely only hamper yourself 

You're going to have to define "the market".  Because you're betting that the S&P 500 is going to beat....something.  Just those 500 companies.  I'm am investing in the total market so I'm guaranteed to beat the market.  The funds are designed to meet the market (that's what index funds do, like the S&P), plus, I will be rebalancing.  Don't confuse diversification with complicated.  

If the S&P beats the total market, good for you.  And there is a good chance it will over a long investment period.  But, I'm willing to take less risk being flush with cash and heading into retirement. 

[Horseman 2,367]

Did I mention that a lot of those funds are zero cost?  Not just low cost, ZERO cost. 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

8 minutes ago, Horseman said:

You're going to have to define "the market".  Because you're betting that the S&P 500 is going to beat....something.  Just those 500 companies.  I'm am investing in the total market so I'm guaranteed to beat the market.  The funds are designed to meet the market (that's what index funds do, like the S&P), plus, I will be rebalancing.  Don't confuse diversification with complicated.  

If the S&P beats the total market, good for you.  And there is a good chance it will over a long investment period.  But, I'm willing to take less risk being flush with cash and heading into retirement. 

You can do a total market fund if you want. S&P 500 tends to be best as it weeds out the trash but it’s up to you. Either way, you aren’t beating the general market over time 

[BeachGuy23 642]

11 minutes ago, Horseman said:

You're going to have to define "the market".  Because you're betting that the S&P 500 is going to beat....something.  Just those 500 companies.  I'm am investing in the total market so I'm guaranteed to beat the market.  The funds are designed to meet the market (that's what index funds do, like the S&P), plus, I will be rebalancing.  Don't confuse diversification with complicated.  

If the S&P beats the total market, good for you.  And there is a good chance it will over a long investment period.  But, I'm willing to take less risk being flush with cash and heading into retirement. 

 

2 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

You can do a total market fund if you want. S&P 500 tends to be best as it weeds out the trash but it’s up to you. Either way, you aren’t beating the general market over time 

But what, the Horse dude said "I'm guaranteed to beat the market."  You said "you aren't beating the general market over time."

Which is it?  You're not telling me that Horse dude really doesn't have a system that 100% beats the market over time are you?  Well that's disappointing, he comes across as a real expert on these kind of matters...

[IGotWorms 4,057]

4 minutes ago, BeachGuy23 said:

 

But what, the Horse dude said "I'm guaranteed to beat the market."  You said "you aren't beating the general market over time."

Which is it?  You're not telling me that Horse dude really doesn't have a system that 100% beats the market over time are you?  Well that's disappointing, he comes across as a real expert on these kind of matters...

It’s possible horse dude has been exceedingly lucky, just like it’s possible he has won the jackpot lottery. I would not count on it, though

[Horseman 2,367]

23 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

You can do a total market fund if you want. S&P 500 tends to be best as it weeds out the trash but it’s up to you. Either way, you aren’t beating the general market over time 

That's all I'm doing.  Total market (not just 500 companies) plus international (not just US).

By definition a total market index fund meets the market.  Good or bad, that's what it does.   I beat the market by regular rebalancing (sell high, buy low) between stocks and bonds and using zero cost funds.  It's simple math.

[seafoam1 2,803]

2 hours ago, Alias Detective said:

 

BwahahahahaHahH

in the same focking hour no less.

BwahahahaHahahahhH

check out this this lonely broke insecure  hack. 

[Horseman 2,367]

17 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

It’s possible horse dude has been exceedingly lucky, just like it’s possible he has won the jackpot lottery. I would not count on it, though

I was extremely lucky when I heavily invested in AMZN and GOOG nine years ago.  I am extremely lucky to have a high paying job and am able to invest 90K a year into Roth type retirement accounts.  I am extremely lucky that I own privately held company stock that regularly outperforms "the market" buy a significant amount. 

I am very unlucky at playing the lottery.

I recently sold half of every individual stock I own valued more than 250K, some I sold outright, and am investing in the total market as I explained in the other thread.  And I'm going to continue to sell more and do the same.  You can do just the S&P 500, there is nothing wrong with that.  I'm not knocking that at all.  It's a lot less risky than what I did 9 years ago.  But for me right now heading into retirement I'm moving into total market index funds with more diversification and less risk. 

[seafoam1 2,803]

1 hour ago, Alias Detective said:

I hear rent to own is the bestest way to build wealth.  Especially for furniture and appliances!

Get back to us when you finally get to retire at 85 yo. 

[seafoam1 2,803]

It's funny to see the 'my way or the highway'  hacks claim how well off they are when I far out earned in my investments and have more flexibilty in life than all of the hurt buttholes. Bring on your stupidity. It's fun to watch your insecurity in life. 

[BeachGuy23 642]

Just now, seafoam1 said:

It's funny to see the 'my way or the highway'  hacks claim how well off they are when I far out earned in my investments and have more flexibilty in life than all of the hurt buttholes. Bring on your stupidity. It's fun to watch your insecurity in life. 

Question, why do you assume the bolded to be true?  You have zero idea what other folks earned with their investments.

[Alias Detective 1,389]

56 minutes ago, Horseman said:

You're going to have to define "the market".  Because you're betting that the S&P 500 is going to beat....something.  Just those 500 companies.  I'm am investing in the total market so I'm guaranteed to beat the market.  The funds are designed to meet the market (that's what index funds do, like the S&P), plus, I will be rebalancing.  Don't confuse diversification with complicated.  

If the S&P beats the total market, good for you.  And there is a good chance it will over a long investment period.  But, I'm willing to take less risk being flush with cash and heading into retirement. 

You’ve advised some good stuff.  Now your over your skis.

[Alias Detective 1,389]

20 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Get back to us when you finally get to retire at 85 yo. 

Ouch

[seafoam1 2,803]

19 minutes ago, BeachGuy23 said:

Question, why do you assume the bolded to be true?  You have zero idea what other folks earned with their investments.

I only do it because that's what they have been doing with me since the start of the thread. It's just that they can't handle it if I do it back, but they deny everything I say about myself. Honestly, why would anyone put up this long of an argument if from step one they didn't believe the person they are arguing with? They tell me I live in a shlthole, and I don't have much money in good investments, property taxes aren't high where I live, my rent is higher. All false. I didn't put anyone down for their approach to how they handle their money until they came out and started lying about my situation. So I figured turn-about is fair play. They tell me I live broke and in a shlthole, so I tell them they are broke and live in a shlthole to see how they react. And boy that set them off.

I don't think after a lifetime of work having a couple million saved and invested is that big of a deal from the outside looking in. I've given arguments of why I and my girlfriend don't want a home, but they keep attacking my choices in life even though I have everything in life I need and want and am able to retire in my 50s. It all worked out great. There are many who just can't handle it because they have problems and it pisses them off.

Plus there are 5-6 dopes in this thread that have very limited financial vision that they keep pushing as the only road in life. I don't think many of them are really that happy by evidence of their angry extreme backlash on how I became successful.

But you don't like me so you understand their point of view I'm guessing. Because in the end for them, it's based on hatred. Most of them are liberals by the way. See a pattern here? 

 

[BeachGuy23 642]

3 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

I only do it because that's what they have been doing with me since the start of the thread. It's just that they can't handle it if I do it but they deny everything I say about myself. Honestly, why would anyone put up this long of an argument if from step one they didn't believe the person they are arguing with? They tell me I live in a shlthole, and I don't have much money in good investments, property taxes aren't high where I live, my rent is higher. All false. I didn't put anyone down for their approach to how they handle their money until they came out and started lying about my situation. So I figured turn-about is fair play. They tell me I live broke and in a shlthole, so I tell them they are broke and live in a shlthole to see how they react. And boy that set them off.

I don't think after a lifetime of work having a couple million saved and invested is that big of a deal from the outside looking in. I've given arguments of why I and my girlfriend don't want a home, but they keep attacking my choices in life even though I have everything in life I need and want and am able to retire in my 50s. It all worked out great. There are many who just can't handle it because they have problems and it pisses them off.

Plus there are 5-6 dopes in this thread that have very limited financial vision in this thread that they keep pushing as the only road in life. I don't think many of them are really that happy by evidence of their angry extreme backlash on how I became successful.

But you don't like me so you understand their point of view I'm guessing. Because in the end for them, it's based on hatred. Most of them are liberals by the way. See a pattern here? 

 

Well friend, I do think your political beliefs are cringy, but having a million or two or more saved up for retirement is extremely rare and something to be very proud of.

Median 401(k) balance by age

While averages may be more common, the median is often a better metric for getting an accurate view of a data set. Averages are influenced by outliers — either very high or very low numbers. You'll notice that Vanguard's average 401(k) balances are quite a bit higher than the medians.  As you can see by the chart, you're crushing it.

Age	Median 401(k) account balance
Under 25	$1,948.
25 to 34	$11,357.
35 to 44	$28,318.
45 to 54	$48,301.
55 to 64	$71,168.
65 and older	$70,620.

[TimHauck 2,621]

On 1/21/2024 at 12:06 PM, edjr said:

I rent properties I own, 

white privilege? yay or nay

Did you use any money from family towards any of the properties you own? If so then yeah, probably

[Horseman 2,367]

4 minutes ago, Alias Detective said:

You’ve advised some good stuff.  Now your over your skis.

In the simplest of terms and let's use @IGotWorms  S&P 500 example:

A S&P 500 Index Fund matches exactly what the S&P does.  If the S&P goes up 50% your investment will go up 50%.  That's what index funds were designed to do.

If worms sets up an account with 80% in his S&P Index and 20% in a Bond Index Fund he will perform exactly how those two markets perform at a 80:20 ratio.  The way he beats those two markets is by regularly rebalancing.  If equities do good he might check his account and find his ratio has changed to 85:15.  He sells 5% of the S&P high and buys 5% of the bond fund low. At the end of the investment period he effectively has more shares by repeatedly buying low and selling high. He would beat the S&P/Bond market at 80:20 ratio.

[seafoam1 2,803]

Just now, BeachGuy23 said:

Well friend, I do think your political beliefs are cringy, but having a milly or two or more saved up for retirement is extremely rare and something to be very proud of.

Median 401(k) balance by age

While averages may be more common, the median is often a better metric for getting an accurate view of a data set. Averages are influenced by outliers — either very high or very low numbers. You'll notice that Vanguard's average 401(k) balances are quite a bit higher than the medians.  As you can see by the chart, you're crushing it.

Age	Median 401(k) account balance
Under 25	$1,948.
25 to 34	$11,357.
35 to 44	$28,318.
45 to 54	$48,301.
55 to 64	$71,168.
65 and older	$70,620.

I've seen lists like that and it blows my mind. I feel bad for the people that are in that range. 

But the key for me was obviously a good paying job, which many here have I'm sure. I don't doubt it. But, my girlfriend and I have few needs in life, and most important, no debt for quite a long while, and even then it was minor. She never had debt in her life but I don't include her accounts with my own net worth. She's probably worth about $500k in her late 30s.

We both maxed out everything we could with our investments in 401k, company stock, and other things as well. She also used to work for ACN and now she still making a great salary somewhere else doing project management work. She will be able to retire when she hits 50 if she wants but she doesn't want at this point.

Since I've been with her over 12 years now we have moved 4 times I think it is because we wanted to. And we like the simple flexibility of that. And we travel a bunch on top of it.

I really don't get why everyone puts having that flexibility down. If they all want to be in a home for 20+ years, have at it. I'm not putting it down. Especially if you have a bunch of kids.

[edjr 6,578]

19 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Did you use any money from family towards any of the properties you own? If so then yeah, probably

No. 0 - left home at 18, hated my step mother and my father (at the time) and my own mother. 

never got a cent from anyone, ever. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,941]

43 minutes ago, edjr said:

No. 0 - left home at 18, hated my step mother and my father (at the time) and my own mother. 

never got a cent from anyone, ever. 

Yeah well, I bet when the cops pulled you over and saw your complexion they apologized for pulling you over in the first place and escorted you to your destination and gave you Burger King. 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

2 hours ago, Horseman said:

That's all I'm doing.  Total market (not just 500 companies) plus international (not just US).

By definition a total market index fund meets the market.  Good or bad, that's what it does.   I beat the market by regular rebalancing (sell high, buy low) between stocks and bonds and using zero cost funds.  It's simple math.

That sounds fine except you probably don’t need international. But whatever. None of that means you’re beating the market though (nor should you be trying to)

[TimHauck 2,621]

58 minutes ago, edjr said:

No. 0 - left home at 18, hated my step mother and my father (at the time) and my own mother. 

never got a cent from anyone, ever. 

Not white privilege then, kudos

[IGotWorms 4,057]

1 hour ago, seafoam1 said:

I've seen lists like that and it blows my mind. I feel bad for the people that are in that range. 

But the key for me was obviously a good paying job, which many here have I'm sure. I don't doubt it. But, my girlfriend and I have few needs in life, and most important, no debt for quite a long while, and even then it was minor. She never had debt in her life but I don't include her accounts with my own net worth. She's probably worth about $500k in her late 30s.

We both maxed out everything we could with our investments in 401k, company stock, and other things as well. She also used to work for ACN and now she still making a great salary somewhere else doing project management work. She will be able to retire when she hits 50 if she wants but she doesn't want at this point.

Since I've been with her over 12 years now we have moved 4 times I think it is because we wanted to. And we like the simple flexibility of that. And we travel a bunch on top of it.

I really don't get why everyone puts having that flexibility down. If they all want to be in a home for 20+ years, have at it. I'm not putting it down. Especially if you have a bunch of kids.

Nobody put down flexibility. That’s a perfectly fine reason to rent. What people take issue with is your declaration that it’s the better long term financial choice for most people

[seafoam1 2,803]

5 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Nobody put down flexibility. That’s a perfectly fine reason to rent. What people take issue with is your declaration that it’s the better long term financial choice for most people

It was for me. Others in this thread also put down comments from well known finacially wealthy people in this country as well. 

In your mind, is there truly only one path to financial success? I absolutely know there isn't. 

[Horseman 2,367]

1 hour ago, IGotWorms said:

That sounds fine except you probably don’t need international. But whatever. None of that means you’re beating the market though (nor should you be trying to)

"Probably don't need" depends on what you're trying to achieve.  I'm reducing risk and owning the global stock market is more diversified and less risk than solely US stocks.  That's fact.

I've explained several times how you beat "the market" that you have yet to define for yourself.

2 hours ago, Horseman said:

In the simplest of terms and let's use @IGotWorms  S&P 500 example:

A S&P 500 Index Fund matches exactly what the S&P does.  If the S&P goes up 50% your investment will go up 50%.  That's what index funds were designed to do.

If worms sets up an account with 80% in his S&P Index and 20% in a Bond Index Fund he will perform exactly how those two markets perform at a 80:20 ratio.  The way he beats those two markets is by regularly rebalancing.  If equities do good he might check his account and find his ratio has changed to 85:15.  He sells 5% of the S&P high and buys 5% of the bond fund low. At the end of the investment period he effectively has more shares by repeatedly buying low and selling high. He would beat the S&P/Bond market at 80:20 ratio.

Go ahead and show me where I am wrong.

 

[seafoam1 2,803]

 

Grant Cardone Says Home Ownership Should No Longer Be Part of the American Dream: ‘For Most People It’s a Nightmare’

“The very things that symbolize the middle class — cars, homes and college — are strangling, suffocating and dismissing the middle class as a wealth class,” he told GOBankingRates.

Grant Cardone Says Home Ownership Should No Longer Be Part of the American Dream: ‘For Most People It’s a Nightmare.'

For many people, the “American Dream” includes a home with a white picket fence. But Grant Cardone, author of the upcoming book “The Wealth Creation Formula,” believes that the white picket fence ideal is actually a money trap.

“The very things that symbolize the middle class — cars, homes and college — are strangling, suffocating and dismissing the middle class as a wealth class,” he told GOBankingRates.

‘You’re Trapped for 30 Years’

One of the reasons Cardone sees homeownership as a trap is that you are physically trapped in the same place, usually for 30 years.

“You have to live in the same place every day for 30 years and pay for it,” Cardone said. “It is a terrible, terrible investment. What about if, in year three years, you have this great opportunity to move to another part of the country or part of the world in order to have a better job — you couldn’t, because you have 27 years left on your loan. It would be much smarter to pay $2,000 a month rent for the next 30 years.”

Renting ultimately gives you more financial freedom and flexibility than owning, Cardone said.

If You’re Buying a Home as an ‘Investment,’ There Are Better Places To Put Your Money

Many people see buying a home as an “investment,” but Cardone points out that the ROI on single-family homes is much lower than other assets you could put your money into.

“The return on a house as an investment [is lower compared to] the S&P 500 and other real estate investments, like I make,” he said. “Investing in bonds would even be better than investing in a house.”

Once you pay a down payment, that money no longer grows.

“The money is dead,” Cardone said. “Your down payment’s lost. [Plus], you have to service the debt every month.”

If you buy a home with the plan to flip it for a profit in 10 years, the reality is that you probably will not be able to, Cardone said.

“If you took a loan out and you’re going sell the house in 10 years, you have to make 70% on the sale of that house just to pay the interest,” he said.

“You’re also going to have to pay a real estate brokerage firm 6% on the way out, so now you’ve got to make 76%. And you have to pay the property insurance — in Florida, the property insurance is 2% a year — so now you’ve got to make 70%, plus the 6%, plus 2% [times 10 years, which is] 20%. So you have to make almost 100%. The house has to appreciate 100% in 10 years for you to break even — and you lost your mobility.”

Homeownership Is More of a Nightmare Than a Dream

Cardone believes we need to stop considering homeownership as part of the “American Dream,” particularly if you will need to take out a 30-year mortgage to pay for that dream.

“The house, for most people, is a nightmare — not a dream,” he said. “At the very least, it’s a trap. Warren Buffett has one home, Elon Musk has none. It’s only until you’re wealthy [and don’t need to take out a mortgage] that you should go out and buy a house.”

[TimHauck 2,621]

On 1/22/2024 at 4:25 PM, nobody said:

Jesus, you really are dumb.  The implication of you assertion that your rent is less than property tax is that your landlord is losing money by renting your apartment to you. We all know that's not the case except you apparently.  That's how we all know your full of shìt, and that's how I know the only way your dumb assertion makes sense is if you're comparing your 1200 sqft apartment to a 2000 sqft single family residence.  You just get dumber and dumber.

 

On 1/22/2024 at 4:34 PM, seafoam1 said:

Who said I'm living in a 1200 sq foot apartment?

See, this and the whole comment about "shltty apartment" and the not knowing of my rent vs. property taxes and home values in my area and how big my place is, and mine and my girlfriend's lifestyle and income and how much my net worth is and my investments and blah blah blah. You should simply go back to your assembly line job and make all you can to meet this months mortgage payment.

And great, glad you are happy with your small thinking mind.

 

Smaller than 1200?

Has peefoam ever answered how big his apartment is compared to the houses he’s comparing the property taxes to?

[seafoam1 2,803]

16 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

 

Smaller than 1200?

Has peefoam ever answered how big his apartment is compared to the houses he’s comparing the property taxes to?

Hack is hack.  Go gay!! wooo! 

[nobody 2,564]

5 hours ago, Horseman said:

Did I mention that a lot of those funds are zero cost?  Not just low cost, ZERO cost. 

How does that work?  How does the fund manager make money?

[Horseman 2,367]

20 minutes ago, nobody said:

How does that work?  How does the fund manager make money?

From the articles I've read the 4 funds are an attempt to steal customers from Vanguard.  And then they will sell them other suites of funds which they've also priced at a cheaper expense ratio than Vanguard.  It just so happens they are index funds and 3 out of 4 match what I'm looking for.   And being index funds they mirror exactly the equivalent of the Vanguard or any other index fund.

https://www.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/investing-ideas/index-funds?imm_pid=700000001009773&immid=100820_SEA&imm_eid=ep35415530246&utm_source=GOOGLE&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_account_id=700000001009773&utm_campaign=MUT&utm_content=58700004265124983&utm_term=fidelity+zero+fund&utm_campaign_id=100820&utm_id=71700000038714008&gad_source=1&acs_info=ZmluYWxfdXJsOiAiaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZmlkZWxpdHkuY29tL211dHVhbC1mdW5kcy9pbnZlc3RpbmctaWRlYXMvaW5kZXgtZnVuZHMiCg&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-NuFtez0gwMV3iKtBh0Hwg0EEAAYASAAEgJ6W_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Low cost is the one thing you have total control over.  Any default 401k is probably at an undesirable expense ratio.  None of my retirement money is in any default fund.

[Alias Detective 1,389]

11 hours ago, nobody said:

How does that work?  How does the fund manager make money?

They are unmanaged indexes and Fidelity hopes their subpar performance makes clients move to the more costly managed funds.
 

Advisors sell them because they can charge a fractionally higher “fee” since the underlying index doesn’t have one.  Or it can be used in a competitive situation where cost over performance is a client’s priority.

See above, it’s all about cost not return.

[Horseman 2,367]

2 hours ago, Alias Detective said:

They are unmanaged indexes and Fidelity hopes their subpar performance makes clients move to the more costly managed funds.
 

Advisors sell them because they can charge a fractionally higher “fee” since the underlying index doesn’t have one.  Or it can be used in a competitive situation where cost over performance is a client’s priority.

See above, it’s all about cost not return.

Subpar?  No.

FZROX (Fidelity Total Market Index Zero Cost) vs. VTSAX (Vanguard Total Market Index)

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/fund-performance?s=y&sl=7G5sTyQ6DVZOAf1A49Wri6

FZROX (Fidelity Total Market Index Zero Cost) vs. VTI (Vanguard Total Market Index ETF)

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/fund-performance?s=y&sl=2sWPv5Ulb809onhLnDo2Vs

If you scroll down to the graphs you have to zoom in to even tell there are two graphs plotted because they are directly on top of each other.  They are for all intents and purposes the EXACT SAME fund. 

Index funds are already very low cost.

FZROX (0.000%)

VTSAX (0.040%)

VTI (0.030%)

Because there isn't much managing to do.  All they do is track an index.  A computer can do all the work. Vanguard invented index funds for two reasons. The same two reason why people should use index funds above any other actively managed fund.

1 - Very low expense ratio.

2 - Actively managed funds trying to beat "the market" or a particular index are only successful less than 30% of the time.  And the success for a given year usually isn't repeatable.  

[Engorgeous George 2,137]

I don't like people enough to want to share walls or parking areas with them.  I don't like waiting for unqualified workmen to foul up repairs in my house when they finally arrive on the third scheduled date.  I don't like having to obtain permission for alterations.

 

My investment in my current home has more than kept place with inflation and has more or less kept pace with my investments.  Your mileage may vary.  I should note I am fairly handy, have painted my house inside and out several times, i havxe repalced all the lighting, have tiled the bathrooms, installed countger tops and back splashes, replaced the major appliances myself as well as the waterheater.  I do not that my experience has been subject to Murphy's law as when appliances go out it is at the worst time convenience-wise and cash flow-wise. 

[Horseman 2,367]

@Alias Detective

It occurred to me that when you said "subpar"" perhaps you didn't mean between Fidelity and Vanguard, rather a low cost index is subpar to some other actively managed fund.  See #2 in the post above.  I'd be interested if you can find a fund that regularly beats the "the market" or index.  

[Alias Detective 1,389]

3 minutes ago, Horseman said:

@Alias Detective

It occurred to me that when you said "subpar"" perhaps you didn't mean between Fidelity and Vanguard, rather a low cost index is subpar to some other actively managed fund.  See #2 in the post above.  I'd be interested if you can find a fund that regularly beats the "the market" or index.  

which market and which index?  If you are talking the S&P 500 then I agree, its hard to beat and any active manager who does will be on the cover of Barron's ad nauseam.

[Stryker Ryker 188]

Rent until you can buy. Buy a cheaper house to start with. Sink some money into it to fix it up. Sell after living there for a few years. Buy another cheap house & fix it up. Should have some money left over from first sale. Rent that house out & use money from first sale to buy another house. Rinse & repeat until you have a good 5-8 houses you’re renting.