About effing time…Ukraine to fall by end 2024

[Gepetto 988]

37 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

Why didn't Putin take Ukraine during Trump's term?

Putin has stated he prefers Biden to defeat Trump because Biden is "predictable".

Also, 

Trump discussing what he said to Putin when he was president, regarding invasion of Ukraine: 

"You know, he was a friend of mine," Trump continued. "I got along great with him. I say, 'Vladimir, if you do it, we're hitting Moscow. I said, 'We're gonna hit Moscow.'"

"I said, 'We're gonna hit Moscow,'" Trump said. "And he sort of believed me, like five percent, 10 percent. That's all you need." 

[Ron_Artest 686]

2 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

Putin has stated he prefers Biden to defeat Trump because Biden is "predictable".

Also, 

Trump discussing what he said to Putin when he was president, regarding invasion of Ukraine: 

"You know, he was a friend of mine," Trump continued. "I got along great with him. I say, 'Vladimir, if you do it, we're hitting Moscow. I said, 'We're gonna hit Moscow.'"

"I said, 'We're gonna hit Moscow,'" Trump said. "And he sort of believed me, like five percent, 10 percent. That's all you need." 

So if Trump wins are we bombing Moscow?

[Gepetto 988]

37 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’m not going to call anyone here an idiot, or a retard, or a bad person, or a traitor. You guys are entitled to your opinions, and I don’t think any of you who wants us to stop helping Ukraine fall into those categories. 

But I urge you to reconsider. It really isn’t in our best interest to allow Ukraine to fail. It puts us, roughly, in the same situation that Neville Chamberlain put England in after he gave up the Sudetenland to Hitler: making a geopolitical enemy far more powerful while at the same time being committed to the defense of her most immediate neighbors. It puts us at great risk and in the end may cost us far more than we are spending now, not only in money but the blood of our children. Please think twice about promoting isolationism in the face of an aggressor. 

Funding to Ukraine is finished. Europe can aid them. Or they can fall. There is no path to victory. There should have been discussions months or over a year ago for peace terms. Should have done right after they repelled Russia from taking Kiev. It's a failure already. No more spending of US taxpayers money.

[Gepetto 988]

Just now, Ron_Artest said:

So if Trump wins are we bombing Moscow?

No. His words were preventative. I don't know how Trump would handle the current situation but I trust him to handle it in whatever way he determines will work.

[Ron_Artest 686]

3 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

No. His words were preventative. I don't know how Trump would handle the current situation but I trust him to handle it in whatever way he determines will work.

So it was an empty threat, got it.

And if Putin did invade Ukraine under trump, you would support bombing Moscow?

[Gepetto 988]

7 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

So it was an empty threat, got it.

And if Putin did invade Ukraine under trump, you would support bombing Moscow?

No it wasn't an empty threat. Those words were for if Putin invaded Ukraine while Trump was President. As Putin invaded Ukraine while Biden was pres, it's Biden's fault, not Putin's. Trump won't retaliate against Moscow because of Biden's blunder. Maybe Biden should fix this he's the president now.

[Pimpadeaux 2,274]

17 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

Putin has stated he prefers Biden to defeat Trump because Biden is "predictable".

Also, 

Trump discussing what he said to Putin when he was president, regarding invasion of Ukraine: 

"You know, he was a friend of mine," Trump continued. "I got along great with him. I say, 'Vladimir, if you do it, we're hitting Moscow. I said, 'We're gonna hit Moscow.'"

"I said, 'We're gonna hit Moscow,'" Trump said. "And he sort of believed me, like five percent, 10 percent. That's all you need." 

Yeah, so Americans are going to vote for Biden because he has the support of a vicious dictator.

[Gepetto 988]

Just now, Pimpadeaux said:

Yeah, so Americans are going to vote for Biden because he has the support of a vicious dictator.

No one said that.

[Ron_Artest 686]

1 minute ago, Gepetto said:

No it wasn't an empty threat. Those words were for if Putin invaded Ukraine while Trump was President. As Putin invaded Ukraine while Biden was pres, it's Biden's fault, not Putin's. Trump won't retaliate against Moscow because of Biden's blunder. Maybe Biden should fix this he's the president now.

 

[Gepetto 988]

2 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

 

That's right, I just schooled you so all you can do is try to sweep it aside is a laughing emoji. 

[IGotWorms 3,321]

57 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’m not going to call anyone here an idiot, or a retard, or a bad person, or a traitor. You guys are entitled to your opinions, and I don’t think any of you who wants us to stop helping Ukraine fall into those categories. 

But I urge you to reconsider. It really isn’t in our best interest to allow Ukraine to fail. It puts us, roughly, in the same situation that Neville Chamberlain put England in after he gave up the Sudetenland to Hitler: making a geopolitical enemy far more powerful while at the same time being committed to the defense of her most immediate neighbors. It puts us at great risk and in the end may cost us far more than we are spending now, not only in money but the blood of our children. Please think twice about promoting isolationism in the face of an aggressor. 

Except it’s all because of Putin. Most of these same people are all for helping Israel. So why not Ukraine? Because Putin helped Trump — that’s it.

[IGotWorms 3,321]

5 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

No it wasn't an empty threat. Those words were for if Putin invaded Ukraine while Trump was President. As Putin invaded Ukraine while Biden was pres, it's Biden's fault, not Putin's. Trump won't retaliate against Moscow because of Biden's blunder. Maybe Biden should fix this he's the president now.

Jesus

[Ron_Artest 686]

12 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

That's right, I just schooled you so all you can do is try to sweep it aside is a laughing emoji. 

Schooled me

If trump says he will bomb Moscow if Russia invaded Ukraine, and Russia invaded Ukraine, and trump regains power and doesn't do anything, it's an empty threat.

Also, trump lies all the time, so you can't believe anything he says.  Putin is not scared of Trump, Putin owns trump and everyone knows it, except you, and trump.

[Gepetto 988]

2 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

Schooled me

If trump says he will bomb Moscow if Russia invaded Ukraine, and Russia invaded Ukraine, and trump regains power and doesn't do anything, it's an empty threat.

Also, trump lies all the time, so you can't believe anything he says.  Putin is not scared of Trump, Putin owns trump and everyone knows it, except you, and trump.

Why did Putin invade Ukraine? Why did Putin begin the invasion while Biden was President?

[Ron_Artest 686]

Just now, Gepetto said:

Why did Putin invade Ukraine? Why did Putin begin the invasion while Biden was President?

Putin wants the Soviet empire back   I have no idea why he invaded in 2022, could have nothing to do with Biden, could be he thought Biden was weak and would do nothing and has been proven wrong, I don't know.

What we do know is Putin wanted trump in 2016 and did everything he could to get him.

[The Real timschochet 2,974]

37 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

Funding to Ukraine is finished. Europe can aid them. Or they can fall. There is no path to victory. There should have been discussions months or over a year ago for peace terms. Should have done right after they repelled Russia from taking Kiev. It's a failure already. No more spending of US taxpayers money.

Well this may be your position, and that of many conservatives, but fortunately it looks like you won’t get your way on this. From what I’m reading, despite hardline opposition, there WILL be a vote to give Ukraine an additional 61 billion dollars this weekend, and it will pass by next week. So, we can have this debate again a year from now. 

[cyclone24 1,814]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’m not going to call anyone here an idiot, or a retard, or a bad person, or a traitor. You guys are entitled to your opinions, and I don’t think any of you who wants us to stop helping Ukraine fall into those categories. 

But I urge you to reconsider. It really isn’t in our best interest to allow Ukraine to fail. It puts us, roughly, in the same situation that Neville Chamberlain put England in after he gave up the Sudetenland to Hitler: making a geopolitical enemy far more powerful while at the same time being committed to the defense of her most immediate neighbors. It puts us at great risk and in the end may cost us far more than we are spending now, not only in money but the blood of our children. Please think twice about promoting isolationism in the face of an aggressor. 

I can’t see this is some sort of major gain for Russia. This was all old Russian territory. That’s all he wants. This idea that he wants to invade europe is silly

[The Real timschochet 2,974]

With regard to the OP, the CIA director’s warning came only IF we don’t fund Ukraine, and it looks like we will. So Ukraine will survive. 

[The Real timschochet 2,974]

Just now, cyclone24 said:

I can’t see this is some sort of major gain for Russia. This was all old Russian territory. That’s all he wants. This idea that he wants to invade europe is silly

Yes that’s what they said about the Sudetenland too. And Austria, and Danzig, and the Rhineland. It all used to be part of Germany. And then they invaded Poland, and Belgium, and France….

[cyclone24 1,814]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

With regard to the OP, the CIA director’s warning came only IF we don’t fund Ukraine, and it looks like we will. So Ukraine will survive. 

Wasted money. Our money. Not our war

[double tour 89]

Biden's America. Useless pieces of crap Biden and his voters.

[thegeneral 1,424]

11 minutes ago, cyclone24 said:

Wasted money. Our money. Not our war

It is in our and our allies interests and a good investment in my view. As long as Ukraine wants to keep fighting I’d say keep providing them gear and support. Russia is clearly the assshole here. There’s no other side to this. 

I do wish behind doors it would be made clear to Ukraine that there is a need for some type of off ramp here at some point and sadly that may include losing some territory. 

[double tour 89]

Just now, thegeneral said:

It is in our and our allies interests and a good investment in my view. As long as Ukraine wants to keep fighting I’d say keep providing them gear and support. Russia is clearly the  here. There’s no other side to this. 

I do wish behind doors it would be made clear to Ukraine that there is a need for some type of off ramp here at some point and sadly that may include losing some territory. 

Stupid.

[thegeneral 1,424]

Just now, double tour said:

Stupid.

Nuh uh. No give backs.

[The Real timschochet 2,974]

I just don’t get you guys. You want Russia to conquer Ukraine, and you want Israel to attack Iran. Do you guys want World War III? Because that’s where all this is heading. 

[cyclone24 1,814]

5 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

It is in our and our allies interests and a good investment in my view. As long as Ukraine wants to keep fighting I’d say keep providing them gear and support. Russia is clearly the assshole here. There’s no other side to this. 

I do wish behind doors it would be made clear to Ukraine that there is a need for some type of off ramp here at some point and sadly that may include losing some territory. 

I would agree with you if it wasn’t Ukraine. Ukraine really has no allies other than us sort of. And again the reason they couldn’t get into NATO was because of massive corruption.

[cyclone24 1,814]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

I just don’t get you guys. You want Russia to conquer Ukraine, and you want Israel to attack Iran. Do you guys want World War III? Because that’s where all this is heading. 

I don’t want us spending money and arms on proxy wars that gain us absolutely nothing. 
 

Answer this. Not playing fantasy land that Russia is going to invade Europe, but let’s see Ukraine loses. And Russia stops. Exactly what is gained here?

[IGotWorms 3,321]

2 minutes ago, cyclone24 said:

I would agree with you if it wasn’t Ukraine. Ukraine really has no allies other than us sort of. And again the reason they couldn’t get into NATO was because of massive corruption.

Europe has spent more money on this than we have, per capita

[The Real timschochet 2,974]

1 minute ago, cyclone24 said:

I don’t want us spending money and arms on proxy wars that gain us absolutely nothing. 
 

Answer this. Not playing fantasy land that Russia is going to invade Europe, but let’s see Ukraine loses. And Russia stops. Exactly what is gained here?

I don’t trust Russia to stop. The same people who want us to cut off aid to Ukraine are rooting for us to pull out of NATO. I think if Putin senses weakness (which he will if we cut off aid and Trump wins again) he will look for the next victim. Maybe Poland. 

[thegeneral 1,424]

Just now, cyclone24 said:

I would agree with you if it wasn’t Ukraine. Ukraine really has no allies other than us sort of. And again the reason they couldn’t get into NATO was because of massive corruption.

Much like in ME right now stuff was, to put it lightly, very dicey when Russia went into Ukraine.

We basically crossed every red line they put up aiding Ukraine and learned from this. NATO gained members. Was best outcome we could have ever hoped for after Russia started this. 

We are primarily giving them aide in the form of weapons I believe. Older weapons that we will replace. A bit morbid but that’s what is going on. Ukraine wants this fight so fock Russia. Ukraine wants to keep going have at it.

I do agree I don’t really see a path for Ukraine to “win” but pulling the rug out now is a bad idea. 

 

 

[SUXBNME 1,340]

2 hours ago, Ron_Artest said:

Why?

Well, for one, because he said so 

Seriously though, I do believe that other world leaders respect and fear him. 
Trump has never seen to be one to cave in vs our current leader.  
 

Simplistic answer, I know, but sometime the most simplistic answers make the most sense. 

[Pimpadeaux 2,274]

34 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I just don’t get you guys. You want Russia to conquer Ukraine, and you want Israel to attack Iran. Do you guys want World War III? Because that’s where all this is heading. 

They call Democrats war mongers even though the last real three wars we got into were under Republican administrations, and they root for Israeli war on other countries and play the warmonger card when it comes to those who support Ukraine. 

 

[Pimpadeaux 2,274]

5 minutes ago, SUXBNME said:

Well, for one, because he said so 

Seriously though, I do believe that other world leaders respect and fear him. 
Trump has never seen to be one to cave in vs our current leader.  
 

Simplistic answer, I know, but sometime the most simplistic answers make the most sense. 

They fear him because he's the new Hitler.

[thegeneral 1,424]

8 minutes ago, SUXBNME said:

Well, for one, because he said so 

Seriously though, I do believe that other world leaders respect and fear him. 
Trump has never seen to be one to cave in vs our current leader.  
 

Simplistic answer, I know, but sometime the most simplistic answers make the most sense. 

How did we cave with Ukraine (except these people who want to cut off aide now)?

[weepaws 2,467]

I think they respect him, that’s not always good.  They don’t fear him.  That’s stupid. 

[The Real timschochet 2,974]

1 hour ago, SUXBNME said:

Seriously though, I do believe that other world leaders respect and fear him. 
Trump has never seen to be one to cave in vs our current leader.  
 

 

I simply don’t understand how you can believe this. Were you paying attention at all during his Presidency???

First off nobody respected Trump. Exactly 100% of the worlds leaders think he’s a buffoon and a dimwit. The only thing they fear is that he might become President again because he screwed so many things up. 

Second, no President in my memory caved on as many issues as Trump. And to compare him to Biden, who has led NATO in a firm stand against Russia? It’s like you’re living on a different planet, certainly not this one. 

[weepaws 2,467]

Edwin Starr was right when it comes to war, so many deaths.  How sad.  

[Hardcore troubadour 12,684]

Now that Ukraine is going to get the money, where are they going to get the troops? I know real Tim doesn’t think troops are all that necessary in modern war, but he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I don’t think conscripting 60 year olds because they are running out of troops is a pathway to victory. If we’re trying to win this thing then let’s win it. But it ain’t happening without someone’s boots on the ground. So whose will it be? 

[Maximum Overkill 664]

8 hours ago, IGotWorms said:

This is great news for you Putin puffers

No, it's not great news Mr. Pedocrat, it's horrible. But what did you expect?? 

Did you really think that throwing Billions of Dollars at it would change anything? Putin knows all he has to do is outlast Ukraine which isn't hard considering the size of his military. 

It was only a matter of time before Russia wore them out, Ukraine is running out of military age fighters. 

So what's next?? Is Biden willing to put America soldiers on Ukrainian soil to fight the evil Russian empire or does he walk away minus billions and billions of dollars/resources? 

The time to act was before Russia invaded Ukraine. Biden stood and watched for months prior to the invasion and did nothing to deter Putin. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,684]

2 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

No, it's not great news Mr. Pedocrat, it's horrible. But what did you expect?? 

Did you really think that throwing Billions of Dollars at it would change anything? Putin knows all he has to do is outlast Ukraine which isn't hard considering the size of his military. 

It was only a matter of time before Russia wore them out, Ukraine is running out of military age fighters. 

So what's next?? Is Biden willing to put America soldiers on Ukrainian soil to fight the evil Russian empire or does he walk away minus billions and billions of dollars/resources? 

The time to act was before Russia invaded Ukraine. Biden stood and watched for months prior to the invasion and did nothing to deter Putin. 

Biden said a small incursion was acceptable. But of course that didn’t embolden Putin. Nah. . Trump!