Trump talk only- no Eagles talk allowed (Steelers talk is OK though)

[Mark Davis 398]

1 minute ago, IGotWorms said:

Some minor shift among a notoriously fickle (and not likely to actually vote) segment. I’m not seeing much of a game changer and I wouldn’t be surprised if that shift was completely ephemeral.

People have locked in beliefs about these candidates. I just can’t see much that will really change that. Even a focking felony conviction doesn’t matter. If you’re a Trumper you think it’s illegitimate. If you’re a moderate that leans Trump (for whatever reason I will never understand), you already know he’s a piece of shiat but you don’t like Biden either and you’re butthurt about trannies and/or inflation.

I’d like to believe there will be some big shift towards Biden but I don’t think it’s happening. People know Trump says crazy stuff, it’s not like they’re going to suddenly say “hey that guy sounds like a nut.”

I think there are very few moveable voters as well.  I think it's about turn out and maybe fighting over that 1% or so in five or so states of moveable voters.  People already know these two, they know what to expect and what they are getting.

[GutterBoy 2,899]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Most people aren’t even paying attention. They will. I remain an optimist. 

Agreed.  I refuse to believe America will vote in a convicted felon who took away women's right to choose.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

Actually the one thing that could matter is reproductive healthcare. But it seems that issue will generally help Democrats quite a bit but not, for whatever reason, Biden.

You’d think people would draw the connection between the power to appoint federal judges and protecting whatever reproductive healthcare rights they can, but I guess they (incorrectly) perceive that as moot since roe v wade got overturned, not understanding that it was just the beginning of rollbacks.

Also perhaps Biden’s Catholicism and historical skepticism of abortion is at play. I don’t think the electorate is that deeply engaged but I guess they perhaps believe that if they really wanted an abortion rights warrior in that position, Biden doesn’t neatly fit the bill.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

3 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Agreed.  I refuse to believe America will vote in a convicted felon who took away women's right to choose.

They already know he took away the right to choose and it appears that the felon issue lacks teeth

[Mark Davis 398]

Just now, IGotWorms said:

Actually the one thing that could matter is reproductive healthcare. But it seems that issue will generally help Democrats quite a bit but not, for whatever reason, Biden.

You’d think people would draw the connection between the power to appoint federal judges and protecting whatever reproductive healthcare rights they can, but I guess they (incorrectly) perceive that as moot since roe v wade got overturned, not understanding that it was just the beginning of rollbacks.

Also perhaps Biden’s Catholicism and historical skepticism of abortion is at play. I don’t think the electorate is that deeply engaged but I guess they perhaps believe that if they really wanted an abortion rights warrior in that position, Biden doesn’t neatly fit the bill.

To be honest as someone from the other side, I think they do see that.  I think overall that issue does hurt Trump a little.  If the candidate on the other side was anyone other than Biden it would show up more.  Biden's age is a huge problem, more even than Trump's age is for him.  I know the D side of things doesn't want to hear it, but the border is a huge albatross for Joe Biden, I think at least as much as abortion is for Trump.  That's the difference.  Down ballot D's aren't blamed as much for the border as Biden is for wiping out the Trump EO's. 

[IGotWorms 4,058]

8 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

To be honest as someone from the other side, I think they do see that.  I think overall that issue does hurt Trump a little.  If the candidate on the other side was anyone other than Biden it would show up more.  Biden's age is a huge problem, more even than Trump's age is for him.  I know the D side of things doesn't want to hear it, but the border is a huge albatross for Joe Biden, I think at least as much as abortion is for Trump.  That's the difference.  Down ballot D's aren't blamed as much for the border as Biden is for wiping out the Trump EO's. 

I think we’re mostly in pretty solid agreement on where things stand. I do think it’s inflation that has really hurt Biden among moderates and blue dog democrat types and not the border, but it’s possible that, as you suggest, I just can’t see it because personally I just do not get worked up over immigration.

Honestly I kinda hope you’re right, because if it is the border, he can maybe actually do something about that. Can’t go back and undo the huge inflation from a couple years ago but you can issue EOs now, which is what he’s doing, and even though republicans won’t care I think that actually could sway some moderates if that’s really the issue.

[GutterBoy 2,899]

22 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

They already know he took away the right to choose and it appears that the felon issue lacks teeth

I don't think people are paying attention.

Barely anyone knows about project 2025

[IGotWorms 4,058]

1 minute ago, GutterBoy said:

I don't think people are paying attention.

Barely anyone knows about project 2025

And they never really will. To the extent they hear about it at all they’ll dismiss it as fantasy or rhetoric or the like

[Hardcore troubadour 15,434]

I know about project 2025. 

[IGotWorms 4,058]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

I know about project 2025. 

Gutter was talking about how many people don’t fully understand the radicalism of the right wings plans, and that if they did, they’d never vote for that.

We know you’re a lunatic who appreciates and wants it, so your opinion really doesn’t have any bearing on this particular discussion. HTH

[Hardcore troubadour 15,434]

1 minute ago, IGotWorms said:

Gutter was talking about how many people don’t fully understand the radicalism of the right wings plans, and that if they did, they’d never vote for that.

We know you’re a lunatic who appreciates and wants it, so your opinion really doesn’t have any bearing on this particular discussion. HTH

Yeah. It’s crazy. 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

Just now, IGotWorms said:

Gutter was talking about how many people don’t fully understand the radicalism of the right wings plans, and that if they did, they’d never vote for that.

We know you’re a lunatic who appreciates and wants it, so your opinion really doesn’t have any bearing on this particular discussion. HTH

Exactly.  The tardcore of this country are no more than 20%-30%, they are not a concern.  It's th people who vote for Trump because of inflation or perceived strength.  These are the people that need to be educated.

[jerryskids 6,799]

1 hour ago, GutterBoy said:

Agreed.  I refuse to believe America will vote in a convicted felon who took away women's right to choose.

He did?

You mean he appointed judges who voted to send the decision back to the states.

In your home state of New Jersey, you can abort a baby up to birth, whee!

Quote

Is abortion legal in New Jersey? Yes.
Yes. Abortion is legal in New Jersey. There is no limit on abortion in New Jersey based on how far along in pregnancy you are. 

https://www.abortionfinder.org/abortion-guides-by-state/abortion-in-new-jersey

I take it you'll be voting for Trump now?  Since he improved abortion access for you.   

[IGotWorms 4,058]

9 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

He did?

 

Yes, he did, Jerry, and you know that.

Before the Supreme Court justices he appointed struck down roe v wade, women had a federally protected right to have an abortion (up to a certain point anyway).

Now they do not have that right.

Quit being disingenuous Jerry. Most of the posters here are not stupid enough to be deceived by it. All it does is highlight that you’re halfway a liar who cannot be trusted  

[jerryskids 6,799]

6 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Yes, he did, Jerry, and you know that.

Before the Supreme Court justices he appointed struck down roe v wade, women had a federally protected right to have an abortion (up to a certain point anyway).

Now they do not have that right.

Quit being disingenuous Jerry. Most of the posters here are not stupid enough to be deceived by it. All it does is highlight that you’re halfway a liar who cannot be trusted  

You must have accidentally deleted the rest of my post, where I showed that Gutter has improved abortion access thanks to the SCOTUS decision.

Hey look, same for you in Oregon, whee!

Quote

Is abortion legal in Oregon? Yes.
Yes. Abortion is legal in Oregon. There is no limit on abortion in Oregon based on how far along in pregnancy you are.

https://www.abortionfinder.org/abortion-guides-by-state/abortion-in-oregon

Trump appreciates your vote, Worms.   

[Hardcore troubadour 15,434]

8 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Yes, he did, Jerry, and you know that.

Before the Supreme Court justices he appointed struck down roe v wade, women had a federally protected right to have an abortion (up to a certain point anyway).

Now they do not have that right.

Quit being disingenuous Jerry. Most of the posters here are not stupid enough to be deceived by it. All it does is highlight that you’re halfway a liar who cannot be trusted  

How did that case get in front of the Supreme Court? 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,106]

1 hour ago, IGotWorms said:

Gutter was talking about how many people don’t fully understand the radicalism of the right wings plans, and that if they did, they’d never vote for that.

We know you’re a lunatic who appreciates and wants it, so your opinion really doesn’t have any bearing on this particular discussion. HTH

Weird how you're focused on how "radical" the right is, but the problem is your side has moved so far left that anything to your right look "radical".  This country DOES NOT have a far-right problem.  That's not debatable.  What we have is a far-left problem. Socialists/Marxists/Communists have infiltrated our governments and institutions at all levels.  No one needs to look further than the BLM/Antifa riots, Hollywood, the MSM and our educational institutions.

Joseph McCarthy was right - he was about 50 or 60 years too early, though.

[Mark Davis 398]

1 hour ago, IGotWorms said:

I think we’re mostly in pretty solid agreement on where things stand. I do think it’s inflation that has really hurt Biden among moderates and blue dog democrat types and not the border, but it’s possible that, as you suggest, I just can’t see it because personally I just do not get worked up over immigration.

Honestly I kinda hope you’re right, because if it is the border, he can maybe actually do something about that. Can’t go back and undo the huge inflation from a couple years ago but you can issue EOs now, which is what he’s doing, and even though republicans won’t care I think that actually could sway some moderates if that’s really the issue.

Yeah, inflation is a huge one as well that can't be omitted.  Again, I think that issue is more targeted at Biden than down ballot Democrats.  I'm not really sure why, but down ballot Republicans tend to get hit with the abortion issue a little bit more.  It also should be stated there are voters out there who aren't in lock step with either candidate on these major issues but have to pick which of them is most important to them.  Lately in more state wide type elections the D's have done a good job of making abortion that issue.  So far though the economy and border seems to be overcoming that when it comes to Biden/Trump.

[The Real timschochet 6,765]

1 minute ago, Mark Davis said:

Again, I think that issue is more targeted at Biden than down ballot Democrats. I'm not really sure why, but down ballot Republicans tend to get hit with the abortion issue a little bit more.  

You’re basing these assumptions on polling but they haven’t been tested in an actual election. I don’t think it’s going to hold. One of the main reasons I am optimistic is that people just do not divide their ballots that way. The “split” that’s going on now is based on a general dislike of Biden among many who are otherwise liberal, and a preference for Trump among many who are unlikely to vote. Both of these numbers are “soft” and I believe will change before November enough to give Biden the win. 

[The Real timschochet 6,765]

8 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Weird how you're focused on how "radical" the right is, but the problem is your side has moved so far left that anything to your right look "radical".  This country DOES NOT have a far-right problem.  That's not debatable.  What we have is a far-left problem. Socialists/Marxists/Communists have infiltrated our governments and institutions at all levels.  No one needs to look further than the BLM/Antifa riots, Hollywood, the MSM and our educational institutions.

Joseph McCarthy was right - he was about 50 or 60 years too early, though.

Ironically this post was written by one of the biggest Marxists in this forum. 

[5-Points 3,534]

1 hour ago, GutterBoy said:

Agreed.  I refuse to believe America will vote in a convicted felon who took away women's right to choose.

I would sooner vote for a guy "convicted" in a sham trial over a guy deemed mentally unfit to stand trial. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,106]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Ironically this post was written by one of the biggest Marxists in this forum. 

Sure, Tim.  You got nothing so your biggest comeback is "I'm not a Marxist!  You're a Marxist!"? 

You don't know your a$$ from a hole in the ground, much less who and who ain't a Marxist, especially considering YOUR side of the aisle has voted a bunch of them to office as (fake) Democrats. 

[The Real timschochet 6,765]

2 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Sure, Tim.  You got nothing so your biggest comeback is "I'm not a Marxist!  You're a Marxist!"? 

You don't know your a$$ from a hole in the ground, much less who and who ain't a Marxist, especially considering YOUR side of the aisle has voted a bunch of them to office as (fake) Democrats. 

Whatever you say, Comrade! 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,106]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

Whatever you say, Comrade! 

Of course, the typical gaslighting as a last resort of a man who can't argue the facts.  

Keep voting in the Commies, Tim!!!  

[Mark Davis 398]

24 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

You’re basing these assumptions on polling but they haven’t been tested in an actual election. I don’t think it’s going to hold. One of the main reasons I am optimistic is that people just do not divide their ballots that way. The “split” that’s going on now is based on a general dislike of Biden among many who are otherwise liberal, and a preference for Trump among many who are unlikely to vote. Both of these numbers are “soft” and I believe will change before November enough to give Biden the win. 

That down ballot Republicans have been hit with the abortion issue has been tested in quite a few elections and it's definitely hurt them.  There are enough people who don't like Trump's style and rhetoric that if all else were equal, he would be defeated in the general.  The problem is Biden has been horrific on the border and inflation has really crippled the average American's purchasing power.  I know you disagree with these two things, but polling shows you are in the minority there.  It's that old saying in politics that when you are explaining, you are losing.  Biden owns these issues/detriments right now whether you think it's valid or not.

My wife and I don't agree on politics sometimes.  I know she never saw herself voting for Trump but she's there now.  Luckily for us we are well off enough we can overcome the inflation, but the border issue lost her for Biden.  Even if you are pro immigration, we should know who is coming into our country, especially today with all the turmoil in the world.  

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,106]

4 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

That down ballot Republicans have been hit with the abortion issue has been tested in quite a few elections and it's definitely hurt them.  There are enough people who don't like Trump's style and rhetoric that if all else were equal, he would be defeated in the general.  The problem is Biden has been horrific on the border and inflation has really crippled the average American's purchasing power.  I know you disagree with these two things, but polling shows you are in the minority there.  It's that old saying in politics that when you are explaining, you are losing.  Biden owns these issues/detriments right now whether you think it's valid or not.

My wife and I don't agree on politics sometimes.  I know she never saw herself voting for Trump but she's there now.  Luckily for us we are well off enough we can overcome the inflation, but the border issue lost her for Biden.  Even if you are pro immigration, we should know who is coming into our country, especially today with all the turmoil in the world.  

Mark, I absolutely LOVE your posts.  You should post more in here. 

 

[The Real timschochet 6,765]

18 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

That down ballot Republicans have been hit with the abortion issue has been tested in quite a few elections and it's definitely hurt them.  There are enough people who don't like Trump's style and rhetoric that if all else were equal, he would be defeated in the general.  The problem is Biden has been horrific on the border and inflation has really crippled the average American's purchasing power.  I know you disagree with these two things, but polling shows you are in the minority there.  It's that old saying in politics that when you are explaining, you are losing.  Biden owns these issues/detriments right now whether you think it's valid or not.

My wife and I don't agree on politics sometimes.  I know she never saw herself voting for Trump but she's there now.  Luckily for us we are well off enough we can overcome the inflation, but the border issue lost her for Biden.  Even if you are pro immigration, we should know who is coming into our country, especially today with all the turmoil in the world.  

I’m very much aware that my views on immigration are in the minority and that most people, like your wife, believe that Biden has done a poor job on this issue. But I’m curious: is your wife in favor of rounding up and deporting millions of people which is what Trump is proposing? I think, and really hope, that a majority of Americans aren’t willing to go there. 

[Mark Davis 398]

8 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’m very much aware that my views on immigration are in the minority and that most people, like your wife, believe that Biden has done a poor job on this issue. But I’m curious: is your wife in favor of rounding up and deporting millions of people which is what Trump is proposing? I think, and really hope, that a majority of Americans aren’t willing to go there. 

I don't think that's her preference.  But she does feel like we should get some kind of work visa where the people who have been here for years can pay taxes, we actually agree on that.  But just during the Biden years, we have had 8 million or so I think cross illegally.  I don't know the exact number, but that is pretty close I believe.  That's a number we simply can't sustain and in these cases these aren't people who have been here for a generation or we even know who they are.  I think she would be in favor of deporting these folks as would I.  

Edit:  That 8 million is an old number, appears to be closer to 10 million.  That's a shocking number.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,106]

4 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

I don't think that's her preference.  But she does feel like we should get some kind of work visa where the people who have been here for years can pay taxes, we actually agree on that.  But just during the Biden years, we have had 8 million or so I think cross illegally.  I don't know the exact number, but that is pretty close I believe.  That's a number we simply can't sustain and in these cases these aren't people who have been here for a generation or we even know who they are.  I think she would be in favor of deporting these folks as would I.  

And me.  We simply need to get all of these illegals out of the country right now.  They need to come in the legal way and stop skipping the line for legitimate immigrants that are doing it the proper way and waiting in line.

Of course, Tim would then have to pay legitimate wages to US citizens so he'd be against that. 

[IGotWorms 4,058]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

You must have accidentally deleted the rest of my post, where I showed that Gutter has improved abortion access thanks to the SCOTUS decision.

Hey look, same for you in Oregon, whee!

https://www.abortionfinder.org/abortion-guides-by-state/abortion-in-oregon

Trump appreciates your vote, Worms.   

You’re a very disappointing person

[Mark Davis 398]

7 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

And me.  We simply need to get all of these illegals out of the country right now.  They need to come in the legal way and stop skipping the line for legitimate immigrants that are doing it the proper way and waiting in line.

You can be pro immigration and want people to do it through a legal process.  There's no doubt we actually do need some of the labor that immigrants bring.  This shouldn't be an extreme issue either way.  But while there are obviously many many millions of people who want to come, they should go through a vetting process so that we know we aren't letting dangerous people in.  This is such a political football right now though this won't get solved.  What we have in reality for this election is the binary choice of the Trump position or the Biden position, there is no in between, at least not for now.  Taking that view in the context of Tim's question, you don't have to like every aspect of what Trump says on this to prefer his position to what Biden has done.

[jerryskids 6,799]

11 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

You’re a very disappointing person

Everything I said in both posts is 100% correct.

Like always, you have an impressive ability to take any issue, no matter how complex, and boil it down to a simple, yet incredibly incorrect, summary.   

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,106]

14 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

You can be pro immigration and want people to do it through a legal process.  There's no doubt we actually do need some of the labor that immigrants bring.  This shouldn't be an extreme issue either way.  But while there are obviously many many millions of people who want to come, they should go through a vetting process so that we know we aren't letting dangerous people in.  This is such a political football right now though this won't get solved.  What we have in reality for this election is the binary choice of the Trump position or the Biden position, there is no in between, at least not for now.  Taking that view in the context of Tim's question, you don't have to like every aspect of what Trump says on this to prefer his position to what Biden has done.

I agree with that 100%. In fact you will find probably nobody that doesn't agree with that.  

The problem is the left just wants to let anyone in willy-nilly, no background checks, and for any reason.  Basically what's happening now is everyone is claiming asylum to try to get around getting in here legitimately or just sneaking over the border. 

[The Real timschochet 6,765]

50 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

I don't think that's her preference.  But she does feel like we should get some kind of work visa where the people who have been here for years can pay taxes, we actually agree on that.  But just during the Biden years, we have had 8 million or so I think cross illegally.  I don't know the exact number, but that is pretty close I believe.  That's a number we simply can't sustain and in these cases these aren't people who have been here for a generation or we even know who they are.  I think she would be in favor of deporting these folks as would I.  

Edit:  That 8 million is an old number, appears to be closer to 10 million.  That's a shocking number.

The 8 million number isn’t accurate at all- it’s far less: 

https://www.factcheck.org/2024/02/breaking-down-the-immigration-figures/

In any case the flow of undocumented immigrants isn’t hurting us at all. It’s not affecting our economy and violent crime remains at record low numbers. So I’ve never understood why this is felt to be such a major issue. 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

2 hours ago, jerryskids said:

He did?

You mean he appointed judges who voted to send the decision back to the states.

In your home state of New Jersey, you can abort a baby up to birth, whee!

https://www.abortionfinder.org/abortion-guides-by-state/abortion-in-new-jersey

I take it you'll be voting for Trump now?  Since he improved abortion access for you.   

It's more than just me and my state.  Millions of women lost their choice.

[GutterBoy 2,899]

2 hours ago, jerryskids said:

You must have accidentally deleted the rest of my post, where I showed that Gutter has improved abortion access thanks to the SCOTUS decision.

Hey look, same for you in Oregon, whee!

https://www.abortionfinder.org/abortion-guides-by-state/abortion-in-oregon

Trump appreciates your vote, Worms.   

This is a lie.  Nj never changed their abortion law post striking down roe v wade.  You're wrong, again.  Having a hell of a weekend there skids.

[GutterBoy 2,899]

2 hours ago, 5-Points said:

I would sooner vote for a guy "convicted" in a sham trial over a guy deemed mentally unfit to stand trial. 

Lie.  Biden was not deemed mentally unfit to stand trial.  And don't even think about quoting Hur, a prosecutor, who offered that bit of opinion but later gave his real answer on why he didn't prosecute.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,106]

14 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Lie.  Biden was not deemed mentally unfit to stand trial.  And don't even think about quoting Hur, a prosecutor, who offered that bit of opinion but later gave his real answer on why he didn't prosecute.

Only a dyed-in-the-wool cultist and moron would say Biden is mentally fit in general, much less standing trial.

This country is no way being directed and run by Biden.  It's clear a cabal of leftists behind the scenes are making decisions and just pushing Weekend and Biden's out there.  That's not even debatable.

Just because you refuse to believe your eyes and ears, doesn't mean it's not happening.

[5-Points 3,534]

1 hour ago, GutterBoy said:

Lie.  Biden was not deemed mentally unfit to stand trial.  And don't even think about quoting Hur, a prosecutor, who offered that bit of opinion but later gave his real answer on why he didn't prosecute.

He made an honest assessment, caught sh!t for it, then "clarified" his opinion.

OK.

 

[jerryskids 6,799]

1 hour ago, GutterBoy said:

This is a lie.  Nj never changed their abortion law post striking down roe v wade.  You're wrong, again.  Having a hell of a weekend there skids.

They codified the ability in early 2022 in anticipation of Dobbs.  And it extended access, especially to folks from out of state.

Your statement that Trump "took away a woman's right to choose" is a lie. H W Bush appointed Thomas, and W Bush appointed Alito and Roberts.  Conservative presidents appoint conservative justices, whoda thunk?