Cultural existential threat: Marxism and Moral Relativism

[TheNewGirl 1,094]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t believe in moral relativism either. Thats the main reason I defend transgender rights. 

I don’t know any transgenders in my life and in truth the ones I’ve met make me uncomfortable. But there is a principle involved here which is that they have the right to live their lives without interference or discrimination. To me that principle is a moral absolute; the exact opposite of moral relativism. 

Why do they make you uncomfortable? I know one personally, I am curious why. I'll share why the one I know makes me feel a little weird. 

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

Individual rights. People should be left alone to do as they wish unless they harm others. Classic liberalism. 

I wish it were this simple, I really do. 

[Fnord 1,205]

18 hours ago, BeachGuy23 said:

I used to not think that we needed any kind of structure to fit this moral code, that humans would just default to this, but lately I am thinking that ain't so.

This. I've always known we need to have guardrails in place, but that ultimately the good inherent in the vast majority of people would win out. Then Trump came along. 

Obviously I'm not pinning this on Trump, he just made it okay for those that kept their more grotesque beliefs and actions hidden from view to become loud and public, to society's detriment. 

[jerryskids 5,461]

28 minutes ago, Fnord said:

This. I've always known we need to have guardrails in place, but that ultimately the good inherent in the vast majority of people would win out. Then Trump came along. 

Obviously I'm not pinning this on Trump, he just made it okay for those that kept their more grotesque beliefs and actions hidden from view to become loud and public, to society's detriment. 

Well, this is certainly a different take on my concern about Marxism and moral relativism...  

[Hardcore troubadour 13,034]

5 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Individual rights. People should be left alone to do as they wish unless they harm others. Classic liberalism. 

Same guy that thinks mutilating a child should be the law. 

[The Real timschochet 3,332]

3 hours ago, TheNewGirl said:

Why do they make you uncomfortable? I know one personally, I am curious why. I'll share why the one I know makes me feel a little weird. 

 

I’m just not used to it. The ones I’ve encountered (usually in some kind of public setting like a restaurant) I have a bit of that “ooh gross” factor in me. Not exactly the most woke or politically correct attitude but I’m not a young man so I’m stuck with my prejudices. My defense of them, in a forum like this or in a general discussion, is theoretical and as I wrote, based on principle. 

[jerryskids 5,461]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’m just not used to it. The ones I’ve encountered (usually in some kind of public setting like a restaurant) I have a bit of that “ooh gross” factor in me. Not exactly the most woke or politically correct attitude but I’m not a young man so I’m stuck with my prejudices. My defense of them, in a forum like this or in a general discussion, is theoretical and as I wrote, based on principle. 

Thoughts on my response to you?  

[Hardcore troubadour 13,034]

38 minutes ago, Fnord said:

This. I've always known we need to have guardrails in place, but that ultimately the good inherent in the vast majority of people would win out. Then Trump came along. 

Obviously I'm not pinning this on Trump, he just made it okay for those that kept their more grotesque beliefs and actions hidden from view to become loud and public, to society's detriment. 

Right. He’s the one that brought grooming kids at school into the mainstream. And normalized Burning , Looting and Murdering. 

[The Real timschochet 3,332]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

Same guy that thinks mutilating a child should be the law. 

You’ve made this comment about me and others many times. So let’s get the record straight for anyone that cares: 

I don’t like it when the state attempts to interfere with private medical decisions made between doctors and patients. This is another principle of mine and there are only two exceptions. The first is when it affects public health, which is why in the case of Covid I didn’t mind mandating vaccinations even though something like that would generally go against my libertarian beliefs. Public health doesn’t apply to gender affirming care.

The second exception is in the case of minors. I believe theoretically that there are instances in which the state can say “OK you can have that treatment but only when you’re a consenting adult.” Would gender affirming care be one of those instances? I’m not 100% convinced one way or the other but I lean towards restricting surgery until 18 but not hormones. 
 

I don’t believe, either way, that it’s mutilation. 

[The Real timschochet 3,332]

4 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Thoughts on my response to you?  

I agree on the sports issue, I always have. I do think it’s a rather minor issue and people make too much of it, but my opinion is that biological men should be prohibited from competing in women’s sports due to physical advantages. 

I disagree on the bathroom/changing room issue. I don’t think this qualifies as harm to others. 

[Fnord 1,205]

43 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Right. He’s the one that brought grooming kids at school into the mainstream. And normalized Burning , Looting and Murdering. 

I see that true to form, you perfectly summarized what I wrote.  

Clown.

[jerryskids 5,461]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

I agree on the sports issue, I always have. I do think it’s a rather minor issue and people make too much of it, but my opinion is that biological men should be prohibited from competing in women’s sports due to physical advantages. 

I disagree on the bathroom/changing room issue. I don’t think this qualifies as harm to others. 

Good on the sports. So you think that women should just get used to a much larger biological male in a locker room with his shlong dangling? We had a thread recently about whether a woman would rather meet a bear or a strange man in the woods.

[The Real timschochet 3,332]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Good on the sports. So you think that women should just get used to a much larger biological male in a locker room with his shlong dangling? We had a thread recently about whether a woman would rather meet a bear or a strange man in the woods.

If he still has a shlong he shouldn’t be in there. I may have misunderstood you. 
If a person is in the process of transforming but if it’s not biologically completed? Then I don’t know what to do with them with regards to bathrooms. 

[jerryskids 5,461]

6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

If he still has a shlong he shouldn’t be in there. I may have misunderstood you. 
If a person is in the process of transforming but if it’s not biologically completed? Then I don’t know what to do with them with regards to bathrooms. 

I think we're in agreement: if shlong, no safe spaces.

I'm not clear on what "biologically completed" means. He either has his junk or she doesn't. 

Edited to say "she doesnt".  If a man reaches a point where he removes his boy parts, I think society can call that person a she for safe spaces.  Still a no on sports, as those biological advantages were attained in puberty.

Agreed?

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,810]

10 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I think we're in agreement: if shlong, no safe spaces.

I'm not clear on what "biologically completed" means. He either has his junk or she doesn't. 

Edited to say "she doesnt".  If a man reaches a point where he removes his boy parts, I think society can call that person a she for safe spaces.  Still a no on sports, as those biological advantages were attained in puberty.

Agreed?

Disagree.  Biological males only in boys locker rooms, never in biological female rooms.  

[jerryskids 5,461]

4 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Disagree.  Biological males only in boys locker rooms, never in biological female rooms.  

What is your concern about a biological male who had his junk removed? And how would you differentiate this from a testosterone heavy woman, from a practical perspective? 

[BeachGuy23 604]

12 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Disagree.  Biological males only in boys locker rooms, never in biological female rooms.  

This happens so infrequently it's the equivalent of making national policy for getting struck by lighting.

Cultist and their cultural wars...so very basic. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,810]

8 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

What is your concern about a biological male who had his junk removed? And how would you differentiate this from a testosterone heavy woman, from a practical perspective? 

My problem is they are still males and still are stronger than women.  In fact, I would go a step further and say trannies must declare themselves right away.  I'd be okay with "Other" bathrooms/locker rooms for them.

They are not and never will be women.  They are caricatures of women.

[shadrap 123]

3 hours ago, Fnord said:

This. I've always known we need to have guardrails in place, but that ultimately the good inherent in the vast majority of people would win out. Then Trump came along. 

Obviously I'm not pinning this on Trump, he just made it okay for those that kept their more grotesque beliefs and actions hidden from view to become loud and public, to society's detriment. 

hard for you to type anything without mentioning Trump.

[Hardcore troubadour 13,034]

15 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

What is your concern about a biological male who had his junk removed? And how would you differentiate this from a testosterone heavy woman, from a practical perspective? 

How about no? 

[jerryskids 5,461]

59 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

How about no? 

Again, how do you legislate this?  You are talking about a person with no boy junk who looks like she might be a guy. Do you disallow any women with extra testosterone from women's bathrooms?

[jerryskids 5,461]

1 hour ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

My problem is they are still males and still are stronger than women.  In fact, I would go a step further and say trannies must declare themselves right away.  I'd be okay with "Other" bathrooms/locker rooms for them.

They are not and never will be women.  They are caricatures of women.

I'm not saying they are women.  I'm saying that, by having their male junk removed, they've shown a seriousness about their conviction.  See my response to HT above for more.

[Hardcore troubadour 13,034]

46 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Again, how do you legislate this?  You are talking about a person with no boy junk who looks like she might be a guy. Do you disallow any women with extra testosterone from women's bathrooms?

If they are born a woman then they are a woman, regardless of any hormonal imbalance they may develop. Why is this something that needs to be complicated? You can be as understanding as you want to be, but the bottom line is leftists can’t be trusted to not take the mile after being given the inch, and they prove it time and time again. 

[MDC 6,013]

58 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Again, how do you legislate this?  

That’s what I want to know. Nobody is policing public bathrooms. Or at least they weren’t until the trans hysteria.

[jerryskids 5,461]

2 hours ago, BeachGuy23 said:

This happens so infrequently it's the equivalent of making national policy for getting struck by lighting.

Cultist and their cultural wars...so very basic. 

Again, no data.  @Fnord has posted that this has occurred at his company, where he is a HR manager.  

If, as you assert, it is the equivalent of being struck by lightning... what is the objection to making a national policy?   

[Maximum Overkill 851]

 

[The Real timschochet 3,332]

3 hours ago, jerryskids said:

I think we're in agreement: if shlong, no safe spaces.

I'm not clear on what "biologically completed" means. He either has his junk or she doesn't. 

Edited to say "she doesnt".  If a man reaches a point where he removes his boy parts, I think society can call that person a she for safe spaces.  Still a no on sports, as those biological advantages were attained in puberty.

Agreed?

Sure. But I find these issues to be of rather minor importance. I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about them. 

[jerryskids 5,461]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Sure. But I find these issues to be of rather minor importance. I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about them. 

Fine, so we can agree and move on?

[The Real timschochet 3,332]

Just now, jerryskids said:

Fine, so we can agree and move on?

Sure. What else you got? 

[jerryskids 5,461]

8 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Sure. What else you got? 

That's it for now.  But I'm not sure you understand what you just agreed to, given that you consider "acceptance" of trans people a moral absolute.

You agreed to a biological male who considers himself a female, NOT being in female safe spaces, if they still have boy parts.  Go back and re-read if you'd like to change your position.  

[The Real timschochet 3,332]

3 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

That's it for now.  But I'm not sure you understand what you just agreed to, given that you consider "acceptance" of trans people a moral absolute.

You agreed to a biological male who considers himself a female, NOT being in female safe spaces, if they still have boy parts.  Go back and re-read if you'd like to change your position.  

I don’t need to. I get what I wrote. But keep in mind my agreement means nothing; I’m just one dude on the internet with rather iconoclastic views. 

[Maximum Overkill 851]

6 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’m just not used to it. The ones I’ve encountered (usually in some kind of public setting like a restaurant) I have a bit of that “ooh gross” factor in me. Not exactly the most woke or politically correct attitude

It's normal to feel that way. To act like it's normal is the crazy thing. It's creepy, it's disgusting and usually perverted. 

[Fnord 1,205]

23 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Again, no data.  @Fnord has posted that this has occurred at his company, where he is a HR manager.  

If, as you assert, it is the equivalent of being struck by lightning... what is the objection to making a national policy?   

I'm not an HR Manager but I do hire and manage personnel. I hired a trans woman. FTR, I did not know she was trans until after her hire. In the interview she used her given male name. We assumed he was gay, not a she.

We were concerned when we found out, and that she wanted to use the women's locker room. Long story short, she's integrated well and while there have been some minor challenges, overall it's been a positive experience. You find out that they're just people.

[Fnord 1,205]

1 minute ago, Maximum Overkill said:

It's normal to feel that way. To act like it's normal is the crazy thing. It's creepy, it's disgusting and usually perverted. 

JFC what would you know about it? They probably think you're disgusting. At least THEY are not polluting our low rent message board with bigoted memes of you.

[Horseman 1,593]

4 minutes ago, Fnord said:

I'm not an HR Manager but I do hire and manage personnel. I hired a trans woman. FTR, I did not know she was trans until after her hire. In the interview she used her given male name. We assumed he was gay, not a she.

We were concerned when we found out, and that she wanted to use the women's locker room. Long story short, she's integrated well and while there have been some minor challenges, overall it's been a positive experience. You find out that they're just people.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,810]

5 minutes ago, Fnord said:

I'm not an HR Manager but I do hire and manage personnel. I hired a trans woman. FTR, I did not know she was trans until after her hire. In the interview she used her given male name. We assumed he was gay, not a she.

We were concerned when we found out, and that she wanted to use the women's locker room. Long story short, she's integrated well and while there have been some minor challenges, overall it's been a positive experience. You find out that they're just people.

What a nightmare.  The women's locker room was a no go, right?

[Maximum Overkill 851]

5 minutes ago, Fnord said:

THEY

Working on your Pronouns?  

It's called a Pedocrat Freak.  

[Maximum Overkill 851]

8 minutes ago, Fnord said:

THEY

They  

How about it? Or WTF is it? 

 

[jerryskids 5,461]

14 minutes ago, Fnord said:

I'm not an HR Manager but I do hire and manage personnel. I hired a trans woman. FTR, I did not know she was trans until after her hire. In the interview she used her given male name. We assumed he was gay, not a she.

We were concerned when we found out, and that she wanted to use the women's locker room. Long story short, she's integrated well and while there have been some minor challenges, overall it's been a positive experience. You find out that they're just people.

I very much appreciate your honesty and openness on this.   

 

[Horseman 1,593]

2 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Again, how do you legislate this?  You are talking about a person with no boy junk who looks like she might be a guy. Do you disallow any women with extra testosterone from women's bathrooms?

This is the simplest problem to solve. Just baffles me every time it's brought up.

You use the bathroom that is on your birth certificate and subsequent government issued ID. You want to change that, get a doctor and petition a judge.  

[The Real timschochet 3,332]

1 hour ago, Horseman said:

This is the simplest problem to solve. Just baffles me every time it's brought up.

You use the bathroom that is on your birth certificate and subsequent government issued ID. You want to change that, get a doctor and petition a judge.  

You want people to show an ID to use a bathroom? 
You may be the dumbest person here and that’s really saying something.