I figured out the defining characteristic that makes someone a lifelong liberal

[purdygood 355]

1 hour ago, HellToupee said:

How progressive of you. You’re probably the type of lib that puts people down because of their sexuality 

I'm not much of a Lib.  I usually only put people down for stupidity and lack of self awareness. 
 

In before you say i must be in to "self depreciation" then.  

[supermike80 2,070]

2 hours ago, OldMaid said:

Not as anything more than a joke, no. And if there was, nothing in their past behavior would indicate that they would have been open to the idea, either.

Listen, if you can support what he tried to do, more power to you. To me, it’s the ultimate line that should not have been crossed, and I honestly think this election result will reflect that. 

If thats your deal breaker, i accept that. I think some of that "he tried to steal it" is fairly overblown by the dens, and in conjunction, the media. 

Howrver i cant vote for the denocratic party.  I just cant.  I wish the Republicans had a better candidate but thats not an option 

[OldMaid 2,134]

30 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

If thats your deal breaker, i accept that. I think some of that "he tried to steal it" is fairly overblown by the dens, and in conjunction, the media. 

Howrver i cant vote for the denocratic party.  I just cant.  I wish the Republicans had a better candidate but thats not an option 

  If you have HBO I would still encourage you to watch Stopping the Steal. They talk to some of the officials that were on the receiving end of the pressure campaign. 

Honestly, if they had run a moderate republican they would have won in a landslide. 

[supermike80 2,070]

8 hours ago, OldMaid said:

  If you have HBO I would still encourage you to watch Stopping the Steal. They talk to some of the officials that were on the receiving end of the pressure campaign. 

Honestly, if they had run a moderate republican they would have won in a landslide. 

I don't watch political documentaries.  I cant trust the sources generally.  That goes for BOF SIDEZ too.  I get enough politics in my daily life.  I don't want to add more

[Fnord 2,493]

This has, against all logic, turned into a decent thread. I appreciate that.

Direct message to @jerryskids, @RLLD, @jbycho, among others. No, I do not think most believe that those that infiltrated the Capitol on 1/6 were there to, or had any chance of, "overthrowing" the government. They were there as a desperate last-ditch attempt to delay certification while team Turnip grasped at legal straws to steal the election. They failed, and have paid the price for it. The guy who inspired it, not so much.

[RLLD 4,275]

6 minutes ago, Fnord said:

This has, against all logic, turned into a decent thread. I appreciate that.

Direct message to @jerryskids, @RLLD, @jbycho, among others. No, I do not think most believe that those that infiltrated the Capitol on 1/6 were there to, or had any chance of, "overthrowing" the government. They were there as a desperate last-ditch attempt to delay certification while team Turnip grasped at legal straws to steal the election. They failed, and have paid the price for it. The guy who inspired it, not so much.

Agree, for the most part.  I think those people who broke into the capital had a screw loose, and need to be held to account.  No one suggested anything to them, yet they felt empowered to take such action.  I suggest they watched the BLM folks being p!ssed, violent and destructive and then did the same.....  but we know that there are two forms of justice in this nation today, and these people at the capital did not have the proper pigment for their behaviors to be allowed.

[Sean Mooney 2,045]

On 10/14/2024 at 1:23 PM, Fnord said:

This describes most social media users across the world. Like @OldMaid said, the algorithms just keep showing them what they want, what they believe, what gets them going. Everyone living in their safe little echo chamber, forever and ever, amen.

 

Social media has ruined political discourse in a lot of ways. People make up stories, share them for likes and views, they get watched and it conditions someone's world view by shrinking what they see. Then people have to go above and beyond the first crazy story to keep getting views and likes. 

20 hours ago, Engorgeous George said:

I am socially liberal, or at least laizze faire, fiscally and constitutionally conservative, and I abhor the orthodoxies pressed by the woke left and the MAGA right.  There is no political home for a fella like me, at least not right now.

This is pretty much me too and I feel your pain. I am a Republican at heart as that is what I registered as when I could first vote and I was for many of their policies even up through the beginnings of Trump (like up through the first few months of his Presidency) but the complete fealty to Trump has turned me off from them. On the flip side- I appreciated Obama and what he was trying to do but then as the Democrats far left started pushing further into crazy town they lost me. Give me a moderate candidate on either side and I could be swayed away from being an independent as I am registered right now. 

19 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Yeah, that's what we do.   

 

Jerry- let's say you don't parrot what Trump says. I'm willing to accept the premise. But would you agree there are plenty of posters here who accept what Trump says at face value at all times and/or spread nonsense stories from the far right and pass them off as gospel?

[jerryskids 7,053]

10 minutes ago, Fnord said:

This has, against all logic, turned into a decent thread. I appreciate that.

Direct message to @jerryskids, @RLLD, @jbycho, among others. No, I do not think most believe that those that infiltrated the Capitol on 1/6 were there to, or had any chance of, "overthrowing" the government. They were there as a desperate last-ditch attempt to delay certification while team Turnip grasped at legal straws to steal the election. They failed, and have paid the price for it. The guy who inspired it, not so much.

I appreciate the differentiation you are making.  That being said, in your model, how long do you think they could have delayed certification to make a substantive difference?  Would a few hours give Trump's legal team enough time to find a new legal straw with which to steal the election?

Also, I would argue that most people, the vast majority, were caught up in the mob mentality, not going in with some specific purpose.

[Sean Mooney 2,045]

13 minutes ago, Fnord said:

This has, against all logic, turned into a decent thread. I appreciate that.

Direct message to @jerryskids, @RLLD, @jbycho, among others. No, I do not think most believe that those that infiltrated the Capitol on 1/6 were there to, or had any chance of, "overthrowing" the government. They were there as a desperate last-ditch attempt to delay certification while team Turnip grasped at legal straws to steal the election. They failed, and have paid the price for it. The guy who inspired it, not so much.

Be it January 6th, the BLM, or any other event in history like those things there are obviously people there for true blue reasons of expressing outrage. There will of course always be people who use that as the jumping off point for causing chaos. People did it in the summer of 2020, people did it January 6th. 

6 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Agree, for the most part.  I think those people who broke into the capital had a screw loose, and need to be held to account.  No one suggested anything to them, yet they felt empowered to take such action.  I suggest they watched the BLM folks being p!ssed, violent and destructive and then did the same.....  but we know that there are two forms of justice in this nation today, and these people at the capital did not have the proper pigment for their behaviors to be allowed.

Here's where I differ. Trump is not a dumb person. He recognizes what he is saying- despite it being implied or as coded as possible- and had to know some people were going to take what he said in a wild direction. I just do not believe he is completely unaware that he has devotees who will walk the ends of the earth for him when he says things like "I could shoot someone and people would still support me."- paraphrasing that comment obviously.

But let's say he is unaware of that.....once everything started happening on January 6th you can see how people are taking your words. Why wouldn't you step in quicker to try and diffuse it? 

This all is the equivalent to me of someone planning an outside picnic despite storm clouds rolling in. You ignore it, and ignore it and set out food only for it to being pouring down rain and you think "Oh man...now it's raining." 

And I'm sure you will say now "BLM, Summer 2020." And yes- I agree there were politicians saying stuff there that either implicitly or explicitly- that they should've known how it would've been taken. 

[SaintsInDome2006 611]

On 10/14/2024 at 8:44 AM, Frozenbeernuts said:

Liberals are people who cannot recognize patterns. It just goes right over their head. We keep expecting them to see the patterns like we do, but they are incapable.

I forget what podcast I was listening to, but the host was talking about how vital it is to recognize patterns. These same people would have been in a lot of trouble in a world where life was much more difficult. They would fall prey to things more often than they should have without proper pattern recognition.

So, it’s been a while but a while back I read a piece on the appeal or prevalence of ‘dot drawing’ with Maga/Trump/red-pillers. There’s a psychological term for it, it’s essentially the specific human function of making connections between disparate elements. It’s quite important to our functioning as humans but the internet or digital age has caused a wild extenuation of it, all the data points available online have caused people to go, essentially, well, nuts, seeing causal connections when in reality none exist in totally unrelated events or details, factual or claimed.

[RLLD 4,275]

2 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Be it January 6th, the BLM, or any other event in history like those things there are obviously people there for true blue reasons of expressing outrage. There will of course always be people who use that as the jumping off point for causing chaos. People did it in the summer of 2020, people did it January 6th. 

Here's where I differ. Trump is not a dumb person. He recognizes what he is saying- despite it being implied or as coded as possible- and had to know some people were going to take what he said in a wild direction. I just do not believe he is completely unaware that he has devotees who will walk the ends of the earth for him when he says things like "I could shoot someone and people would still support me."- paraphrasing that comment obviously.

But let's say he is unaware of that.....once everything started happening on January 6th you can see how people are taking your words. Why wouldn't you step in quicker to try and diffuse it? 

This all is the equivalent to me of someone planning an outside picnic despite storm clouds rolling in. You ignore it, and ignore it and set out food only for it to being pouring down rain and you think "Oh man...now it's raining." 

And I'm sure you will say now "BLM, Summer 2020." And yes- I agree there were politicians saying stuff there that either implicitly or explicitly- that they should've known how it would've been taken. 

In order for what you assert to be true then we have to also believe that the words of Democrats are the source for assassination attempts on Trump, are you prepared to apply your logic evenly to both situations?

[Frozenbeernuts 2,330]

5 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

So, it’s been a while but a while back I read a piece on the appeal or prevalence of ‘dot drawing’ with Maga/Trump/red-pillers. There’s a psychological term for it, it’s essentially the specific human function of making connections between disparate elements. It’s quite important to our functioning as humans but the internet or digital age has caused a wild extenuation of it, all the data points available online have caused people to go, essentially, well, nuts, seeing causal connections when in reality none exist in totally unrelated events or details, factual or claimed.

For the record here I agree. It exists. People will go down rabbit holes and believe things on a whim. I have missed things.

What I am referring to are glaring patterns by the democrat politicians.

[purdygood 355]

Just now, RLLD said:

In order for what you assert to be true then we have to also believe that the words of Democrats are the source for assassination attempts on Trump, are you prepared to apply your logic evenly to both situations?

Perhaps, but also maybe Trump's own words led to his assassination attempts, he doesn't exactly speak in pleasantries when speaking about his non supporters.

[Fnord 2,493]

13 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I appreciate the differentiation you are making.  That being said, in your model, how long do you think they could have delayed certification to make a substantive difference?  Would a few hours give Trump's legal team enough time to find a new legal straw with which to steal the election?

Also, I would argue that most people, the vast majority, were caught up in the mob mentality, not going in with some specific purpose.

You answered your own question. Other than the few true agitators in the crowd, there was no plan other than for Pence to deny certification. When he refused, the only thing that could be done was to start murdering him and other lawmakers. Thankfully that didn't happen.

[Sean Mooney 2,045]

6 minutes ago, RLLD said:

In order for what you assert to be true then we have to also believe that the words of Democrats are the source for assassination attempts on Trump, are you prepared to apply your logic evenly to both situations?

If we want to we can.

To do that we also need to acknowledge the role of things said- again either implied or explicitly laid out- as influencing certain pockets of citizens. Are you prepared to apply that logic evenly to both situations?

[Fnord 2,493]

1 minute ago, purdygood said:

Perhaps, but also maybe Trump's own words led to his assassination attempts, he doesn't exactly speak in pleasantries when speaking about his non supporters.

Calling them evil at a campaign event isn't exactly political orthodoxy.

[RLLD 4,275]

2 minutes ago, purdygood said:

Perhaps, but also maybe Trump's own words led to his assassination attempts, he doesn't exactly speak in pleasantries when speaking about his non supporters.

So then, we now have to believe when bad things arise, it can only be that Trump was the source? Not sure I buy into that......

[RLLD 4,275]

1 minute ago, Sean Mooney said:

If we want to we can.

To do that we also need to acknowledge the role of things said- again either implied or explicitly laid out- as influencing certain pockets of citizens. Are you prepared to apply that logic evenly to both situations?

No.   I am prepared to assert that stupid people do stupid things.  And if we allow stupid people to do those stupid things without accountability, more people will do stupid things.

I was surprised that BLM was allowed to be recklessly violent, and I noted that the lack of accountability will empower others to also mimic that behavior when THEY.....FELT......they had a justification for it. 

So January 6 is not really a surprise, the roadmap was laid down, and those idiots followed it.  Thankfully, the Jan 6th idiots had the right pigmentation to be held accountable, which should be enough to dissuade future recurrence. 

[purdygood 355]

Just now, RLLD said:

So then, we now have to believe when bad things arise, it can only be that Trump was the source? Not sure I buy into that......

I'm not saying that, just that it could be a contributing factor.   If he was less "mean" all the time, maybe he would be better off.  You receive the energy you put out into the world.  And he only puts out negative energy 24/7. And when he is not being mean, he does weird dances.  He is a very unlikable person.   If he wasn't Donald Trump and he was David Trop who ran your HOA, you would hate him.

[RLLD 4,275]

1 minute ago, purdygood said:

I'm not saying that, just that it could be a contributing factor.   If he was less "mean" all the time, maybe he would be better off.  You receive the energy you put out into the world.  And he only puts out negative energy 24/7. And when he is not being mean, he does weird dances.  He is a very unlikable person.   If he wasn't Donald Trump and he was David Trop who ran your HOA, you would hate him.

He is not mean, he is honest.  If the truth hurts you, then you need that truth more than others.

I appreciate the honesty, its the first step toward real solutions.  Sometimes hurting feelings to get to good outcomes is just how things have to roll. 

[purdygood 355]

Just now, RLLD said:

He is not mean, he is honest.  If the truth hurts you, then you need that truth more than others.

I appreciate the honesty, its the first step toward real solutions.  Sometimes hurting feelings to get to good outcomes is just how things have to roll. 

He speaks his Truth (which is whatever can get him over on the rubes). ( Or the Truth YOU want to hear)  But he is the biggest liar of all time.

[Sean Mooney 2,045]

5 minutes ago, RLLD said:

No.   I am prepared to assert that stupid people do stupid things.  And if we allow stupid people to do those stupid things without accountability, more people will do stupid things.

I was surprised that BLM was allowed to be recklessly violent, and I noted that the lack of accountability will empower others to also mimic that behavior when THEY.....FELT......they had a justification for it. 

So January 6 is not really a surprise, the roadmap was laid down, and those idiots followed it.  Thankfully, the Jan 6th idiots had the right pigmentation to be held accountable, which should be enough to dissuade future recurrence. 

So am I reading this correct that you want to absolve Trump of blame?

[RLLD 4,275]

Just now, purdygood said:

He speaks his Truth.  ( Or the Truth YOU want to hear)  But he is the biggest liar of all time.

Likely not, certainly Joe Biden would give him a run for his money on that front, as would the agencies and media that protected Biden for those many months.....but in general, politicians lie....pretending Trump is worse, or the worst, is farcical.

You disagree with him politically, so you perceive HIS lies as being worse or different....but they arent. 

[RLLD 4,275]

1 minute ago, Sean Mooney said:

So am I reading this correct that you want to absolve Trump of blame?

Blame for what?

[Sean Mooney 2,045]

Just now, RLLD said:

Likely not, certainly Joe Biden would give him a run for his money on that front, as would the agencies and media that protected Biden for those many months.....but in general, politicians lie....pretending Trump is worse, or the worst, is farcical.

You disagree with him politically, so you perceive HIS lies as being worse or different....but they arent. 

You could turn this all around, swap Biden and Trump's names and post it towards a vast number of posters here. 

[Hawkeye21 2,454]

5 minutes ago, RLLD said:

He is not mean

He sure enjoys calling people names and making fun of those he thinks are lesser than him.  He doesn't come off as a caring man.

[RLLD 4,275]

Just now, Sean Mooney said:

You could turn this all around, swap Biden and Trump's names and post it towards a vast number of posters here. 

You could indeed.  If that is the group you want to be associated with, by all means.....you do you.....

[squistion 2,477]

Just now, RLLD said:

He is not mean, he is honest.  If the truth hurts you, then you need that truth more than others.

I appreciate the honesty, its the first step toward real solutions.  Sometimes hurting feelings to get to good outcomes is just how things have to roll. 

Using demeaning nicknames for people is mean (like "Little Marco")

Insinuating that Ted Cruz's wife ugly is mean.

Mocking a disabled reporter is mean.

 

[SaintsInDome2006 611]

19 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

For the record here I agree. It exists. People will go down rabbit holes and believe things on a whim. I have missed things.

What I am referring to are glaring patterns by the democrat politicians.

I take it you mean Democratic politicians. I hope we’re all democrats here.

But I’m all ears on this. Grew up in a Dem city rife with corruption & incompetence.

[Sean Mooney 2,045]

Just now, RLLD said:

Blame for what?

I already see where this is going....but I'll play along to give you another chance here. You were excusing away the 01/06 mob as seeing what BLM did and thinking they could do it too. You also said no one suggested anything to them, yet they felt empowered to take such action. I said this- which essentially is saying Trump has to take some blame for January 6th at least because he knows how some of those people in that crowd were going to take his words. He isn't an idiot. 

Quote

 

Here's where I differ. Trump is not a dumb person. He recognizes what he is saying- despite it being implied or as coded as possible- and had to know some people were going to take what he said in a wild direction. I just do not believe he is completely unaware that he has devotees who will walk the ends of the earth for him when he says things like "I could shoot someone and people would still support me."- paraphrasing that comment obviously.

But let's say he is unaware of that.....once everything started happening on January 6th you can see how people are taking your words. Why wouldn't you step in quicker to try and diffuse it? 

This all is the equivalent to me of someone planning an outside picnic despite storm clouds rolling in. You ignore it, and ignore it and set out food only for it to being pouring down rain and you think "Oh man...now it's raining." 

And I'm sure you will say now "BLM, Summer 2020." And yes- I agree there were politicians saying stuff there that either implicitly or explicitly- that they should've known how it would've been taken.

 

 

[purdygood 355]

Just now, RLLD said:

Likely not, certainly Joe Biden would give him a run for his money on that front, as would the agencies and media that protected Biden for those many months.....but in general, politicians lie....pretending Trump is worse, or the worst, is farcical.

You disagree with him politically, so you perceive HIS lies as being worse or different....but they arent. 

Even if I give you that his lies are equal to other politicians.   I just think he is a horrible human being who does not deserve my precious vote.  Does not deserve to be leader of our already great country. So agree to disagree.

[RLLD 4,275]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

He sure enjoys calling people names and making fun of those he thinks are lesser than him.  He doesn't come off as a caring man.

Welcome to the world my friend.  You cant throw a stone without hitting someone who does this.   So then we are left with a choice. Do we vote for someone "nice" who's policies ruin everything and make the world worse, or do we vote for the "meaner" who delivers outcomes that benefit us.  I will take the meaner.......

[RLLD 4,275]

2 minutes ago, squistion said:

Using demeaning nicknames for people is mean (like "Little Marco")

Insinuating that Ted Cruz's wife ugly is mean.

Mocking a disabled reporter is mean.

 

So what.....time to toughen up.  I will take the name caller who delivers good outcomes over the fake one who only hurts us.

We have to stop accepting these narratives from the media and politicians about the qualities of people, they only hurl those stones to protect their power......they point to these meaningless factors because they cannot stand on policy.

[Hawkeye21 2,454]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

Welcome to the world my friend.  You cant throw a stone without hitting someone who does this.   So then we are left with a choice. Do we vote for someone "nice" who's policies ruin everything and make the world worse, or do we vote for the "meaner" who delivers outcomes that benefit us.  I will take the meaner.......

I'm not talking about who anyone should vote for or why.  I am directly commenting on you saying that he's not mean.  That's just false.  He's proven time and time again that he is.

[RLLD 4,275]

3 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I already see where this is going....but I'll play along to give you another chance here. You were excusing away the 01/06 mob as seeing what BLM did and thinking they could do it too. You also said no one suggested anything to them, yet they felt empowered to take such action. I said this- which essentially is saying Trump has to take some blame for January 6th at least because he knows how some of those people in that crowd were going to take his words. He isn't an idiot. 

 

So when you say blame for.....you are speaking pointedly to the events around January 6th? If you cannot answer then that means you are not being an honest participant here. 

[purdygood 355]

Just now, RLLD said:

Welcome to the world my friend.  You cant throw a stone without hitting someone who does this.   So then we are left with a choice. Do we vote for someone "nice" who's policies ruin everything and make the world worse, or do we vote for the "meaner" who delivers outcomes that benefit us.  I will take the meaner.......

I would vote for meaner that policies benefit everyone too.... but Donald Trump has no policies.  His only policy is , waking up every day and "what can benefit me?"

[RLLD 4,275]

3 minutes ago, purdygood said:

Even if I give you that his lies are equal to other politicians.   I just think he is a horrible human being who does not deserve my precious vote.  Does not deserve to be leader of our already great country. So agree to disagree.

And that is a fair point.  You as an individual can and should have a prioritization for factors that are important for you as a citizen and voter. 

I have my own priorities. And the media/Democrat portrayal of their ideological opponents does not have a place in my prioritization. I expect both sides of the isle to portray each other as vile, as they have done in various ways for decades. I simply choose to not be manipulated by such things, and focus on outcomes.....having a really nice or less mean person who focks everything up does not add value for me....

[RLLD 4,275]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I'm not talking about who anyone should vote for or why.  I am directly commenting on you saying that he's not mean.  That's just false.  He's proven time and time again that he is.

I do not share your assessment.  He is not mean.  I know mean.....I have lived with it all my life, he is not....mean.....

[RLLD 4,275]

3 minutes ago, purdygood said:

I would vote for meaner that policies benefit everyone too.... but Donald Trump has no policies.  His only policy is , waking up every day and "what can benefit me?"

I find his policies to my satisfaction, more importantly I find the outcomes from his policies to be deeply satisfying

[Sean Mooney 2,045]

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

So when you say blame for.....you are speaking pointedly to the events around January 6th? If you cannot answer then that means you are not being an honest participant here. 

For the second time now...yes. I've only spoken to January 6th. It is my belief that you can't just say "no one suggested to them anything..." because that would indicate Trump is not aware of the power of his words whether implicitly or explicitly stated. I think he is aware and should have known how some people there would take what he was saying.