Here come the tariffs

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

12 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t care if they were lying before or hypocritical or whatever. I know I wasn’t. I said then and I will repeat now: tariffs are bad. Trump’s tariffs in 2017 were awful. Biden’s tariffs in 2021 were just as bad. The new tariffs will be far worse than any before since 1930. 

What do you suggest be done?  Let other countries take advantage of us.  Stay reliant on other countries?

We are suppose to be the greatest country in the world, it's time to act like it.

[supermike80 1,907]

16 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

What do you suggest be done?  Let other countries take advantage of us.  Stay reliant on other countries?

We are suppose to be the greatest country in the world, it's time to act like it.

This is a big part of my complaint.   The world has leaned on us, taken advantage of us at almost every turn.  Yeah, we can tariff America.  They won't do anything about it.  They are the great big America!

Play by the same rules is all I ask.  You slap tariffs on us, we should be allowed to reciprocate.   It's fair and right.

[TrailGuy 554]

18 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

What do you suggest be done?  Let other countries take advantage of us.  Stay reliant on other countries?

We are suppose to be the greatest country in the world, it's time to act like it.

This what happens when you listen to Trump too much.  He keeps repeating the lie that Canada and Mexico are taking advantage of us "to the tune of hundred of billions of dollars".

Just because we have a trade deficit doesn't mean we're losing money or being taken advantage of.  Anyone who says this or repeats this doesn't understand trade.

Since when is it a bad thing to buy something from someone cheaper than it is to make it yourself?  I buy lemons from the store because it's cheaper than growing them myself.   America buys products that make sense to buy.

What does it mean to act like the greatest country in the world?  Bully other countries?

[TrailGuy 554]

5 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

This is a big part of my complaint.   The world has leaned on us, taken advantage of us at almost every turn.  Yeah, we can tariff America.  They won't do anything about it.  They are the great big America!

Play by the same rules is all I ask.  You slap tariffs on us, we should be allowed to reciprocate.   It's fair and right.

We're not reciprocating, we're initiating and they are reciprocating.

Otherwise I agree with you in spirit.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

Just now, TrailGuy said:

This what happens when you listen to Trump too much.  He keeps repeating the lie that Canada and Mexico are taking advantage of us "to the tune of hundred of billions of dollars".

Just because we have a trade deficit doesn't mean we're losing money or being taken advantage of.  Anyone who says this or repeats this doesn't understand trade.

Since when is it a bad thing to buy something from someone cheaper than it is to make it yourself?  I buy lemons from the store because it's cheaper than growing them myself.   America buys products that make sense to buy.

What does it mean to act like the greatest country in the world?  Bully other countries?

You prefer our largest companies move their manufacturing out of the country?  Why would you not want to keep as much in country as possible?

[supermike80 1,907]

3 minutes ago, TrailGuy said:

We're not reciprocating, we're initiating and they are reciprocating.

Otherwise I agree with you in spirit.

Currently, the U.S. has a 2.5% tariff on Europe’s sedan and SUV imports, while the EU charges U.S. imports at 10%

[TrailGuy 554]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

You prefer our largest companies move their manufacturing out of the country?  Why would you not want to keep as much in country as possible?

No I would prefer manufacturing stays in the US but that's not always realistic.  I believe we already do try and keep as much as possible

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

Just now, TrailGuy said:

No I would prefer manufacturing stays in the US but that's not always realistic.  I believe we already do try and keep as much as possible

We can stop taxing corporations as much when they manufacture in the US and we can incentivize our citizens to buy American made.

[TrailGuy 554]

3 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Currently, the U.S. has a 2.5% tariff on Europe’s sedan and SUV imports, while the EU charges U.S. imports at 10%

I wouldn't object to raising our tariff to 10% or working on lowering their tariff, which I believe is underway.

This is one example different than what we've seen with Colombia, Mexico, Canada and China.

[TrailGuy 554]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

We can stop taxing corporations as much when they manufacture in the US and we can incentivize our citizens to buy American made.

I'd be for this.  Haven't heard this come out of Trump's mouth.

[supermike80 1,907]

Just now, TrailGuy said:

I wouldn't object to raising our tariff to 10% or working on lowering their tariff, which I believe is underway.

This is one example different than what we've seen with Colombia, Mexico, Canada and China.

I agree.  if they are at 10%, we should be at 10%.  We should match whomever levies a tariff on our goods.   I realize Trump is pushing it over that amount.  Not sure I agree with that 100%, but matching?  Absolutely

[Strike 5,538]

26 minutes ago, TrailGuy said:

I'd be for this.  Haven't heard this come out of Trump's mouth.

You haven't heard of Trump talking about lowering the corporate tax rate?

[TrailGuy 554]

Just now, Strike said:

You haven't heard of Trump talking about lowering the corporate tax rate?

I've heard him say lots of things the past decade.  We haven't seen any plans yet that directly target US Manufacturers.

[Strike 5,538]

3 minutes ago, TrailGuy said:

I've heard him say lots of things the past decade.  We haven't seen any plans yet that directly target US Manufacturers.

Trump actually did lower the corporate tax rate in his first term.  Congress wouldn't go as low as he wanted, and he campaigned on lowering it further this time around.  I'm sorry you're ignorant.

https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/federal/donald-trump-tax-plan-2024/

[TrailGuy 554]

Just now, Strike said:

Trump actually did lower the corporate tax rate in his first term.  Congress wouldn't go as low as he wanted, and he campaigned on lowering it further this time around.  I'm sorry you're ignorant.

We're talking about lower rates for US manufacturers. I'm sorry you can't read.

[Strike 5,538]

1 minute ago, TrailGuy said:

We're talking about lower rates for US manufacturers. I'm sorry you can't read.

1)  US manufacturers are corporations in almost all cases.

2)  From the link I provided:

Quote

Reinstituting the domestic production activities deduction (DPAD) at 28.5 percent to lower the effective corporate tax rate for domestic production to 15 percent

Given how quickly you quoted and responded to my previous post, it's obvious you didn't even read the link.   It's unfortunate you don't want to be educated and discuss things from that point of view.  You just want to post ignorant ramblings and rail on Trump. 

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

1)  US manufacturers are corporations in almost all cases.

2)  From the link I provided:

Given how quickly you quoted and responded to my previous post, it's obvious you didn't even read the link.   It's unfortunate you don't want to be educated and discuss things from that point of view.  You just want to post ignorant ramblings and rail on Trump. 

That is his raison d'etre.

[The Real timschochet 6,758]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye21 said:

What do you suggest be done?  Let other countries take advantage of us.  Stay reliant on other countries?

We are suppose to be the greatest country in the world, it's time to act like it.

First off I’m not convinced that other countries are taking advantage of us. Trump’s main argument is that trade deficits are bad for us and that’s not necessarily so. This is a complicated subject as any economist will tell you. 

More importantly, I don’t really care. So long as we benefit more from action A (free trade on our part) than action B (tariffs on our part) I’m going to choose action A every time. Whether or not other nations take advantage of that is irrelevant to me. 

[TrailGuy 554]

39 minutes ago, Strike said:

1)  US manufacturers are corporations in almost all cases.

2)  From the link I provided:

Given how quickly you quoted and responded to my previous post, it's obvious you didn't even read the link.   It's unfortunate you don't want to be educated and discuss things from that point of view.  You just want to post ignorant ramblings and rail on Trump. 

1) We're talking about a lower rate for US manufacturers vs non US manufacturers.  If you're going to jump into a thread looking for a win please read and understand the discussion taking place.  Doing so would stop you from looking foolish like this.

2) Your link is for plans only.  Trump has said lots of stuff, planned lots of stuff, much of which has not come to fruition, let's see what Congress does.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,414]

Turd guy just shouting the ignorance as loud as he can.  Same old. 

[Strike 5,538]

15 minutes ago, TrailGuy said:

1) We're talking about a lower rate for US manufacturers vs non US manufacturers.  If you're going to jump into a thread looking for a win please read and understand the discussion taking place.  Doing so would stop you from looking foolish like this.

2) Your link is for plans only.  Trump has said lots of stuff, planned lots of stuff, much of which has not come to fruition, let's see what Congress does.

Moving the goalposts now, eh?   The sign of having lost an argument.......

[TrailGuy 554]

Just now, Strike said:

Moving the goalposts now, eh?   The sign of having lost an argument.......

The goalposts never moved.  You just never saw them.

[supermike80 1,907]

19 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

First off I’m not convinced that other countries are taking advantage of us. Trump’s main argument is that trade deficits are bad for us and that’s not necessarily so. This is a complicated subject as any economist will tell you. 

More importantly, I don’t really care. So long as we benefit more from action A (free trade on our part) than action B (tariffs on our part) I’m going to choose action A every time. Whether or not other nations take advantage of that is irrelevant to me. 

 But...are you willing to say those other country tariffs could have an affect on jobs here in the US?  

[The Real timschochet 6,758]

1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

 But...are you willing to say those other country tariffs could have an affect on jobs here in the US?  

Sure, but lots of things could affect jobs here. We subsidize certain industries at the expense of others, and that has an effect. We are currently demonizing and trying  to deport large numbers of undocumented immigrants and that has a HUGE effect on jobs. Imposing tariffs which will raise prices on consumers will have an effect on jobs. DOGE slashing government programs that employ thousands of people will have a huge effect. 
Globalism is not an idea to be accepted or rejected by this country; it’s a reality that we have to face. We are not a self-reliant nation and never will be again. We depend on the rest of the world and they depend on us. 

[supermike80 1,907]

31 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Sure, but lots of things could affect jobs here. We subsidize certain industries at the expense of others, and that has an effect. We are currently demonizing and trying  to deport large numbers of undocumented immigrants and that has a HUGE effect on jobs. Imposing tariffs which will raise prices on consumers will have an effect on jobs. DOGE slashing government programs that employ thousands of people will have a huge effect. 
Globalism is not an idea to be accepted or rejected by this country; it’s a reality that we have to face. We are not a self-reliant nation and never will be again. We depend on the rest of the world and they depend on us. 

Thats a whole lot of added,  non relevant information to answer a simple question

[The Real timschochet 6,758]

6 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Thats a whole lot of added,  non relevant information to answer a simple question

I don’t agree. I think it’s all completely relevant. 

[supermike80 1,907]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t agree. I think it’s all completely relevant. 

The question was.   Do you think tariffs being levied by other countries on our products could affect american jobs.   You added a whole ton of nonsense to that question

[Strike 5,538]

7 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

The question was.   Do you think tariffs being levied by other countries on our products could affect american jobs.   You added a whole ton of nonsense to that question

To be fair to Tim, he answered your question in the first word of his response:

Quote

Sure, but lots of things could affect jobs here. We subsidize certain industries at the expense of others, and that has an effect. We are currently demonizing and trying  to deport large numbers of undocumented immigrants and that has a HUGE effect on jobs. Imposing tariffs which will raise prices on consumers will have an effect on jobs. DOGE slashing government programs that employ thousands of people will have a huge effect. 
Globalism is not an idea to be accepted or rejected by this country; it’s a reality that we have to face. We are not a self-reliant nation and never will be again. We depend on the rest of the world and they depend on us. 

So your follow up could have just been to to quote him and get rid of the irrelevant stuff like this:

Quote

Sure

And then acknowledge that you're in agreement on that point.  Now, if you want to continue arguing with him about the rest that's up to you but you know where that's gonna get you, don't you?

[nobody 2,667]

21 hours ago, RLLD said:

In order to fix our issues, this is the way, there is no magic way to fix things without some effort.  We are here, cannot undo the past, the pain that built up over the last four years will now have to be wrung out......it sucks, but this is all part of the medicine.

This is the part that people don't get.  Not getting taken advantage by our trade partners only gets harder the longer we let it happen.  People seem to think if we do nothing, things will magically get better.  Newsflash, China will be happy to just keep pushing every advantage they can.

The left are the only dopes that don't realize this is a competition and not a hugfest.

[nobody 2,667]

16 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t care if they were lying before or hypocritical or whatever. I know I wasn’t. I said then and I will repeat now: tariffs are bad. Trump’s tariffs in 2017 were awful. Biden’s tariffs in 2021 were just as bad. The new tariffs will be far worse than any before since 1930. 

This is good.  I'm glad you're worried.  You represent the public in that you are a very first level thinker.  If you're scared, that means the general public that doesn't think critically are also scared (whether red or blue team even though the red team won't admit it).  I'll assume your counterparts in China are also concerned.  That's what we want.  We want people to be concerned about tariffs.  As it happens, that's a necessary step in the right direction even though it makes you uncomfortable and the general public cannot tolerate discomfort.

[nobody 2,667]

3 hours ago, TrailGuy said:

This what happens when you listen to Trump too much.  He keeps repeating the lie that Canada and Mexico are taking advantage of us "to the tune of hundred of billions of dollars".

Just because we have a trade deficit doesn't mean we're losing money or being taken advantage of.  Anyone who says this or repeats this doesn't understand trade.

Since when is it a bad thing to buy something from someone cheaper than it is to make it yourself?  I buy lemons from the store because it's cheaper than growing them myself.   America buys products that make sense to buy.

What does it mean to act like the greatest country in the world?  Bully other countries?

If we went to war with China right now over Taiwan, we wouldn't be able to produce high performance chips for at least 4 years.  And that's if we could smuggle all of the Taiwanese engineers out to stand up a foundry onshore.  We can't even do 3nm right now.

That's a national defense problem.  And the only reason China has any capability similar to ours is they steal all of our IP through skirting every trade rule in place.  China is full of thieves and cheats.  It's surprising they don't embrace capitalism more to be honest.  They're focking built for it.

[Strike 5,538]

Trump announced RECIPROCAL tariffs on ANY country that uses tariffs against us, including counties with a VAT.   Have a nice day @The Real timschochet

[The Real timschochet 6,758]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

Trump announced RECIPROCAL tariffs on ANY country that uses tariffs against us, including counties with a VAT.   Have a nice day @The Real timschochet

You too. But obviously this is a terrible decision. But is it a decision? Trump says this stuff but hasn’t really carried through very much. Maybe the smart folks around him (and there are still a small handful) will talk him out of it. Hopefully. 

[jbycho 754]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

You too. But obviously this is a terrible decision. But is it a decision? Trump says this stuff but hasn’t really carried through very much. Maybe the smart folks around him (and there are still a small handful) will talk him out of it. Hopefully. 

Trump is kicking ass and taking names. 

This winning is awesome. 

[Strike 5,538]

I just saw a TV commercial for Ontario, Canada, specifically talking about how great a trading partner it has been, how many jobs it's generated in the U.S., and how long they've been a partner and the hope it continues long in to the future.  I don't think I've ever seen a commercial like that before.  Coincidence?  I think not.

[Mike Hunt 282]

The European Union is ready to slash tariffs on U.S. auto imports to the same level charged on its exports in a move that would generate huge sighs of relief from investors.

This would be especially timely because manufacturers like Porsche are reviving investment in internal combustion engine vehicles as electric vehicle sales falter.  To be cut off from that market would be financially disastrous for the Europeans.

A former U.S. ambassador to the EU though expects the Trump Administration to seek huge overall changes to long-term unfair trading including non-tariff barriers.

Currently, the U.S. has a 2.5% tariff on Europe’s sedan and SUV imports, while the EU charges U.S. imports at 10%.

 

[Ron_Artest 1,506]

On 11/25/2024 at 7:57 PM, Hardcore troubadour said:

 Nice. Good opening to the negotiations. It’s what you do when you have leverage. Gutterboy doesn’t get it. He’s been wrong about so much. 

bruh

[Ron_Artest 1,506]

On 11/26/2024 at 7:50 AM, RLLD said:

Excellent use of tariffs to have an impact.  It will be rather easy for Mexico to step up and avoid these tariffs entirely, and I submit that they will do so.

I submit you're an idiot.

[RLLD 4,230]

1 minute ago, Ron_Artest said:

I submit you're an idiot.

Of course you do, you have nothing meaningful to offer. Thanks for once again showing your asss.

[The Real timschochet 6,758]

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Of course you do, you have nothing meaningful to offer. Thanks for once again showing your asss.

@RLLD you wrote that it would be “rather easy for Mexico to step up and avoid these tariffs entirely”. Do you still fell that way? What exactly should Mexico have done?