LIBERATION DAY: USA and China agree to a 90 day pause on most new tariffs

[RLLD 4,233]

1 minute ago, thegeneral said:

Tariffs are not replacing cheap labor costs combined with the ease of modern shipping. This isn’t the 70’s. Nibble around the edges all you want and call it a yuge victory and this done in a few months is a best case scenario.

 

I think we tried it your way, and it is evident that we cannot continue to do that, we have enough time and evidence to see clearly how destructive it has been, and it makes sense to now shift gears and try to make it less harmful.

[thegeneral 3,218]

Just now, RLLD said:

Well, I think to a certain extent there are those who simply disagree regardless, and I think you can find those people on the left and the right.

But, right now today, the move of simply opposing no matter what dominates liberal thought, positions and policies.  Even where things arise that they have supported in the past, they will now oppose them, no matter what.  And I think that is proving to be rather harmful to Democrats.

You are talking to Peefoam who says he likes to see people suffer and adds a dancing banana a hundred times a day.

[RLLD 4,233]

1 minute ago, thegeneral said:

You are talking to Peefoam who says he likes to see people suffer and adds a dancing banana a hundred times a day.

I think there are those who are happy to see people suffer, we saw this as people migrated here and were raped and otherwise harmed, and then you had some folks encouraging that.  So I get it, there are bad people out there.

I think we might have to be strong for a year or so, but not unlike our families during WWII, we give a little to better secure the future for our people.  We are already down the road toward a shifting away from the failed ies of the past that we can now see clearly were bad.

I do not presume that fixing problems is easy, or without some effort and struggle. That is why people often say that doing it right the first time is better.

[jbycho 754]

8 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Well, I think to a certain extent there are those who simply disagree regardless, and I think you can find those people on the left and the right.

But, right now today, the move of simply opposing no matter what dominates liberal thought, positions and policies.  Even where things arise that they have supported in the past, they will now oppose them, no matter what.  And I think that is proving to be rather harmful to Democrats.

It's called TDS. 

[Fnord 2,279]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

I think there are those who are happy to see people suffer, we saw this as people migrated here and were raped and otherwise harmed, and then you had some folks encouraging that.  So I get it, there are bad people out there.

I think we might have to be strong for a year or so, but not unlike our families during WWII, we give a little to better secure the future for our people.  We are already down the road toward a shifting away from the failed ies of the past that we can now see clearly were bad.

I do not presume that fixing problems is easy, or without some effort and struggle. That is why people often say that doing it right the first time is better.

Comparing what our forebears sacrificed during WW II trying to stop fascism with today's completely self-induced lunacy by one moron is kinda... shitty.

[thegeneral 3,218]

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I think there are those who are happy to see people suffer, we saw this as people migrated here and were raped and otherwise harmed, and then you had some folks encouraging that.  So I get it, there are bad people out there.

These people are called dooshbags. Especially Geeks who keep multiple accounts active and act like they aren’t

[thegeneral 3,218]

3 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I think we might have to be strong for a year or so, but not unlike our families during WWII, we give a little to better secure the future for our people.  We are already down the road toward a shifting away from the failed ies of the past that we can now see clearly were bad.

I do not presume that fixing problems is easy, or without some effort and struggle. That is why people often say that doing it right the first time is better.

This is an absurd take. We are not in WW2. Sorry.

The manner in which this is being done is a complete shitshow. To boot the guy who is leading it is scamming money overseas with this memecoin crap. Not a peep about this..

[jbycho 754]

Just now, thegeneral said:

These people are called dooshbags. Especially Geeks who keep multiple accounts active and act like they aren’t

So you as ron_artest and gutterboy and Rusty as 40%of the usernames on this site. 

 

[RLLD 4,233]

2 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Comparing what our forebears sacrificed during WW II trying to stop fascism with today's completely self-induced lunacy by one moron is kinda... shitty.

I thin your objection has no merit.  People of every generation have made sacrifices, we might have to as well. That you object to the comparison has less to do with some notion of morality you pretend to hold so much as you just want to oppose.

If you cannot see the correlation for the merits then you are not being an honest participant.

[RLLD 4,233]

4 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

These people are called dooshbags. Especially Geeks who keep multiple accounts active and act like they aren’t

There are far more arseholes in the world than good people.

[RLLD 4,233]

3 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

This is an absurd take. We are not in WW2. Sorry.

The manner in which this is being done is a complete shitshow. To boot the guy who is leading it is scamming money overseas with this memecoin crap. Not a peep about this..

We are not in WWII, their struggle was worse, but they did struggle, and maybe we have some struggles today as well.  If they could survive that, I feel we can withstand this to get past teh failures which brought us here and to establish a brighter future.

I leave it to you to oppose, and I think that is good, this is what we needed for the last four years but did not have.  At least when a Republican is in power we know we are getting the kind of scrutiny that helps make better choices.

[Fnord 2,279]

9 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I thin your objection has no merit.  People of every generation have made sacrifices, we might have to as well. That you object to the comparison has less to do with some notion of morality you pretend to hold so much as you just want to oppose.

If you cannot see the correlation for the merits then you are not being an honest participant.

I'm being completely honest when I call it a shitty comparison, because being forced to make sacrifices for the greater good of the nation while trying to defeat tyrants that perpetrated genocide is not fukking comparable to one idiot single handedly demolishing the world's economy because... why again?

If this was a well thought out, good faith endeavor to fix our raging national debt, it would be a different story, and I'd be on board. But it isn't. It's mindless exercise of power for the sake of upholding one man's ego and ignorance. 

I haven't seen many of your posts lately. You still cool with Trump now that he's far exceeded his own authority, participated in censorship, extortion, and completely trampled the constitution that YOU took an oath to protect? 

 

[RLLD 4,233]

1 minute ago, Fnord said:

I'm being completely honest when I call it a shitty comparison, because being forced to make sacrifices for the greater good of the nation while trying to defeat tyrants that perpetrated genocide is not fukking comparable to one idiot single handedly demolishing the world's economy because... why again?

If this was a well thought out, good faith endeavor to fix our raging national debt, it would be a different story, and I'd be on board. But it isn't. It's mindless exercise of power for the sake of upholding one man's ego and ignorance. 

I haven't seen many of your posts lately. You still cool with Trump now that he's far exceeded his own authority, participated in censorship, extortion, and completely trampled the constitution? 

 

So you missed the pointe entirely. I hope you can improve your approach to thoughtful dialogue.

I have been in Syria, Israel and Gaza for a couple months helping facilitate what will be the coalition that will eventually rebuild Gaza, so I have been out of the loop for a bit.

[Ron_Artest 1,545]

11 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I thin your objection has no merit.  People of every generation have made sacrifices, we might have to as well. That you object to the comparison has less to do with some notion of morality you pretend to hold so much as you just want to oppose.

If you cannot see the correlation for the merits then you are not being an honest participant.

When we made sacrifices during WW2 it was so that our brave soldiers could be equipped to fight, defeat the enemy and return home safely.

What are we sacrificing now?  What for?  And what is the end goal?

[SaintsInDome2006 441]

11 minutes ago, RLLD said:

People of every generation have made sacrifices, we might have to as well.

Name one time these sacrifices were caused by the conscious wrongheaded choice of our President. Except maybe Hoover ramrodding tariffs through and tightening money supply in the face of the Great Depression.

[Grace Under Pressure 116]

Make America Sacrifice Again

Can’t make this up. 

“We should sacrifice because Trump said so!” That level of sycophancy wasn’t even on my bingo card. 

C’mon. Admit this con man duped you three times. It’s ok. It was always Trump looking out for Trump, not looking out for you. 

 

[thegeneral 3,218]

15 minutes ago, jbycho said:

So you as ron_artest and gutterboy and Rusty as 40%of the usernames on this site. 

 

I don’t have another account asshat. You do. You complain about these other people doing this. Don’t be that guy. Pick one and save us all the bullshit.

[thegeneral 3,218]

12 minutes ago, RLLD said:

We are not in WWII, their struggle was worse, but they did struggle, and maybe we have some struggles today as well.  If they could survive that, I feel we can withstand this to get past teh failures which brought us here and to establish a brighter future.

I leave it to you to oppose, and I think that is good, this is what we needed for the last four years but did not have.  At least when a Republican is in power we know we are getting the kind of scrutiny that helps make better choices.

Lord

[Fnord 2,279]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

So you missed the pointe entirely. I hope you can improve your approach to thoughtful dialogue.

I have been in Syria, Israel and Gaza for a couple months helping facilitate what will be the coalition that will eventually rebuild Gaza, so I have been out of the loop for a bit.

 No doubt we can both improve our approaches to "thoughtful dialog." You also ignored my question, conveniently.

Any details you care to share about goings-on in Gaza? I'm sure there are plenty here that would love to hear about it.

Stay safe, man. I don't even want to imagine some of the stuff you've seen.

[RLLD 4,233]

1 minute ago, Ron_Artest said:

When we made sacrifices during WW2 it was so that our brave soldiers could be equipped to fight, defeat the enemy and return home safely.

What are we sacrificing now?  What for?  And what is the end goal?

So far we have not had to make any sacrifices, gratefully, but I do not presume that we can fix the considerable mistakes which brought us here without some impacts.  If those folks who sacrificed so much in WWII could do it, I further presume we can deal with the far less impacts of fixing our economic factors.

So lets let Trump cook, he is making decisions that people only every talked about in the past, but lacked the fortitude to actually do. Ending the bad economic deals, and eventually balancing the budget (as Clinton did) I think is a path I can get behind.

[RLLD 4,233]

4 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Name one time these sacrifices were caused by the conscious wrongheaded choice of our President. Except maybe Hoover ramrodding tariffs through and tightening money supply in the face of the Great Depression.

 I dont understand the ask

[RLLD 4,233]

1 minute ago, thegeneral said:

Lord

If you feel that we are not getting the right amount of scrutiny I am good with that. Right now the only thing being done for the most part is scrutiny, so the more the better. I am rather glad to see the media suddenly find the heart to criticize a President.

[The Real timschochet 6,779]

26 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Well, I think to a certain extent there are those who simply disagree regardless, and I think you can find those people on the left and the right.

But, right now today, the move of simply opposing no matter what dominates liberal thought, positions and policies.  Even where things arise that they have supported in the past, they will now oppose them, no matter what.  And I think that is proving to be rather harmful to Democrats.

@RLLD there is no doubt there are going to be Democrats out there opposing everything Trump does because it’s Trump, just as there were Republicans opposing everthing Biden did because it’s Biden. You’re absolutely right about that. 
 

Personally, however, I oppose the tariffs based on my libertarian beliefs in free trade. It’s rather new for me to be arguing with conservatives on this issue; up to the very recent past, it was always leftists like Bernie Sanders who wanted tariffs and conservatives like Ronald Reagan who were on my side of things. I haven’t really changed my position on this issue for decades. 

[RLLD 4,233]

3 minutes ago, Fnord said:

 No doubt we can both improve our approaches to "thoughtful dialog." You also ignored my question, conveniently.

Any details you care to share about goings-on in Gaza? I'm sure there are plenty here that would love to hear about it.

Stay safe, man. I don't even want to imagine some of the stuff you've seen.

Gaza is a mess, and the people are suffering.  That is all I really want to say about that.

On the bright side, the average person I encountered hates Hamas, not all, but most do.  They are not stupid people, they know what Hamas did and why this is all happening.

There is a coming together of important regimes in the area, notably Egypt who want to invest in the future of Gaza.  But as with anything, its complicated, and there are some from the outside who are actively complicating it as well.  The last thing some of the players want is peace, they see it as capitulation.

[Ron_Artest 1,545]

4 minutes ago, RLLD said:

So far we have not had to make any sacrifices, gratefully, but I do not presume that we can fix the considerable mistakes which brought us here without some impacts.  If those folks who sacrificed so much in WWII could do it, I further presume we can deal with the far less impacts of fixing our economic factors.

So lets let Trump cook, he is making decisions that people only every talked about in the past, but lacked the fortitude to actually do. Ending the bad economic deals, and eventually balancing the budget (as Clinton did) I think is a path I can get behind.

I could actually get behind sacrifices to balance the budget as long as they are shared.  Trump has not talked about balancing the budget and it's not his goal.  He just wants to make deals and receive adulation.

[RLLD 4,233]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

@RLLD there is no doubt there are going to be Democrats out there opposing everything Trump does because it’s Trump, just as there were Republicans opposing everthing Biden did because it’s Biden. You’re absolutely right about that. 
 

Personally, however, I oppose the tariffs based on my libertarian beliefs in free trade. It’s rather new for me to be arguing with conservatives on this issue; up to the very recent past, it was always leftists like Bernie Sanders who wanted tariffs and conservatives like Ronald Reagan who were on my side of things. I haven’t really changed my position on this issue for decades. 

I do not think there is any problem with opposing the tariffs, and in fact I think the opposition overall is helpful.  I do not think decisions which go unchallenged are all that great, and all this effort to oppose Trump is making sure the work is being done to make better decisions. So in a sense, I am grateful for people such as yourself. We get better outcomes because of you.

[RLLD 4,233]

2 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

I could actually get behind sacrifices to balance the budget as long as they are shared.  Trump has not talked about balancing the budget and it's not his goal.  He just wants to make deals and receive adulation.

A fair point. I get the transparency concern, and I have some apprehension as well.

But, consider that any move he makes is met with a rather enthusiastic opposing effort.....that perhaps sometimes goes a bit too far.   I think there is "good" opposition to motivate your opponent to soften their approach, or at least make it a little more good for more people.   At least half the country is out there wanting to see some liberal things happen, and we cannot ignore them or their needs.......so yeah, pushback that harkens to that seems fine.....but often I see opposition purely for the sake of opposition.

So in part I understand why there might be some holding back, to strategically prevent legal abuse to impede etc.....

[Ron_Artest 1,545]

4 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I do not think there is any problem with opposing the tariffs, and in fact I think the opposition overall is helpful.  I do not think decisions which go unchallenged are all that great, and all this effort to oppose Trump is making sure the work is being done to make better decisions. So in a sense, I am grateful for people such as yourself. We get better outcomes because of you.

Trump is making all the decisions.  He removed everyone around him that questions him.  He's not listening to the public.  There is one instance were he caved, because he said people got "yippy", which was Bessent telling him that if the bond market collapses like it was headed then we're focked.

[RLLD 4,233]

Just now, Ron_Artest said:

Trump is making all the decisions.  He removed everyone around him that questions him.  He's not listening to the public. 

Perhaps, I think I get why you think that is true, but I am not sure you have the full story.  We really don't know.  And we clearly cannot trust media to give us the full story.

[Ron_Artest 1,545]

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Perhaps, I think I get why you think that is true, but I am not sure you have the full story.  We really don't know.  And we clearly cannot trust media to give us the full story.

Well can we trust his own words and the words of the people around him?  Because they all say the same thing.  Trump sets the agenda, Trump makes the deal, Trump is the only person that can make these deals, etc.

[Tebok 442]

47 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

I don’t have another account asshat. You do. You complain about these other people doing this. Don’t be that guy. Pick one and save us all the bullshit.

I've had to use other accounts because that thin-skinned, childish, unfunny buttknuckle can't keep his booger-encrusted finger off the report button. 

[Gepetto 1,368]

The US trade deficit widened to $140.5 billion in March 2025, reaching a fresh record high.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/balance-of-trade

[Strike 5,556]

2 minutes ago, Tebok said:

I've had to use other accounts because that thin-skinned, childish, unfunny buttknuckle can't keep his booger-encrusted finger off the report button. 

That's a great excuse for your inability to follow the site's rules.

[thegeneral 3,218]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

That's a great excuse for your inability to follow the site's rules.

People having burner accounts is one thing (I don’t) people using multiple accounts throughout the day is bizarre and messed up. Especially when they same the same crap and respond to each other. It’s madness

[Hardcore troubadour 15,451]

On 5/6/2025 at 10:46 AM, The Real timschochet said:

First off, when I write about tariffs it’s not from the perspective of a liberal. I have a very libertarian view on this issue; it used to be the overwhelming view of most conservatives. Times have changed. But it’s certainly not a liberal view. 

Second, on serious issues like this I never deliberately lie. Sometimes I get my facts wrong in error and when that happens I try to acknowledge that. I don’t mind when people correct me; if I’m wrong I’m actually grateful for it. My larger points remain intact. 

I wonder how Mr libertarian here felt during Covid and people being forced to get the vaccine to keep their jobs. 

[SaintsInDome2006 441]

2 hours ago, RLLD said:

 I dont understand the ask

I'm not really asking anything of you, seriously. I just meant that those times of sacrifice you mention were always caused by factors outside the nation's control. Not this. This is one man making choices that fly in the face of economic principles which have been known for 80 years now. And I'll just add that the comp for all this 'sacrifice for the fatherland' talk as to unnecessary deprivation has its best comps in Soviet and Maoist-CCCP history.

[The Real timschochet 6,779]

15 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I wonder how Mr libertarian here felt during Covid and people being forced to get the vaccine to keep their jobs. 

I had no problem with it. Public heath, like public safety, are items that override capitalism. I don’t believe in anarchy. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,451]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

I had no problem with it. Public heath, like public safety, are items that override capitalism. I don’t believe in anarchy. 

You can stop referring to yourself as a libertarian then. Or anything close. 

[The Real timschochet 6,779]

6 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

You can stop referring to yourself as a libertarian then. Or anything close. 

No. You clearly don’t understand the term. That’s OK, it fits right in with all your other examples of lack of understanding. 

[Horseman 2,466]

16 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I'm not really asking anything of you, seriously. I just meant that those times of sacrifice you mention were always caused by factors outside the nation's control. Not this. This is one man making choices that fly in the face of economic principles which have been known for 80 years now. And I'll just add that the comp for all this 'sacrifice for the fatherland' talk as to unnecessary deprivation has its best comps in Soviet and Maoist-CCCP history.

You need to take a break and see a psychiatrist.