Ron_Artest 1,040 Posted March 3 The United States is drawing up a plan to potentially give Russia sanctions relief as President Donald Trump seeks to restore ties with Moscow and stop the war in Ukraine, a US official and another person familiar with the matter told Reuters reut.rs/41ryrEq Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 14,912 Posted March 3 I remember when Biden lifted sanctions against Russia. It was all good. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seafoam1 2,798 Posted March 3 52 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said: The United States is drawing up a plan to potentially give Russia sanctions relief as President Donald Trump seeks to restore ties with Moscow and stop the war in Ukraine, a US official and another person familiar with the matter told Reuters reut.rs/41ryrEq Excellent. Diplomacy saving lives is often times better than waging war and killing innocent people. Ouch. Wait. Did I just sound like a liberal there? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squistion 1,944 Posted March 3 https://x.com/AhmedBaba_/status/1896673787590193306 Trump & Vance’s disgraceful attacks on Zelenskyy are part of their shift away from allies & toward autocrats like Putin. Putin Spokesman: “The new administration is rapidly changing all foreign policy configurations. This largely aligns with our vision." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 14,912 Posted March 3 So, who here is for the security guarantee? Seems none of you foreign policy experts want to answer that. Trump! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 1,739 Posted March 4 2 hours ago, squistion said: Putin Spokesman: “The new administration is rapidly changing all foreign policy configurations. This largely aligns with our vision." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbycho 580 Posted March 4 2 hours ago, squistion said: https://x.com/AhmedBaba_/status/1896673787590193306 Trump & Vance’s disgraceful attacks on Zelenskyy are part of their shift away from allies & toward autocrats like Putin. Putin Spokesman: “The new administration is rapidly changing all foreign policy configurations. This largely aligns with our vision." Awesome. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squistion 1,944 Posted March 4 1 minute ago, jbycho said: Awesome. It is awesome that the US is now allied with the visions of foreign policy of Putin and Russia? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron_Artest 1,040 Posted March 4 10 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said: 3 minutes ago, jbycho said: Awesome. Why do you guys like Putin? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 14,912 Posted March 4 Just now, Ron_Artest said: Why do you guys like Putin? So are you for the security guarantee that Ukraine wants? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EternalShinyAndChrome 3,828 Posted March 4 3 hours ago, squistion said: https://x.com/AhmedBaba_/status/1896673787590193306 Trump & Vance’s disgraceful attacks on Zelenskyy are part of their shift away from allies & toward autocrats like Putin. Putin Spokesman: “The new administration is rapidly changing all foreign policy configurations. This largely aligns with our vision." Good thing anonymous X user is on the case telling us how it really is! You cult members will fall for ANYTHING. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadrap 220 Posted March 4 a really good read for this thread. Some FACTS, some speculation. https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2025/03/zelenskyy_and_the_future_of_nato.html 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Girlfriend 208 Posted March 4 15 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said: So are you for the security guarantee that Ukraine wants? Look at the dog who thinks he got a bone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 2,883 Posted March 4 40 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said: Good thing anonymous X user is on the case telling us how it really is! You cult members will fall for ANYTHING. The President said Ukraine started the war, called Zelenskyy a dictator, we have voted with Russia and against EU allies in UN votes in past week, today Trump pulled funding from Ukraine, Def department suspended Russia cyber operations today…. What would you call this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Girlfriend 208 Posted March 4 2 minutes ago, thegeneral said: The President said Ukraine started the war, called Zelenskyy a dictator, we have voted with Russia and against EU allies in UN votes in past week, today Trump pulled funding from Ukraine, Def department suspended Russia cyber operations today…. What would you call this? Arguing with a Cult-47er is like playing chess with a pigeon. They're just gonna scatter all the pieces, crap all over the board, and then strut around like they won the game. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Voltaire 5,181 Posted March 4 1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said: So are you for the security guarantee that Ukraine wants? Lets give this post 24 hours to see if anyone comes forward. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 2,883 Posted March 4 4 minutes ago, Voltaire said: 1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said: So are you for the security guarantee that Ukraine wants? Lets give this post 24 hours to see if anyone comes forward. Russia gets the land it stole. Ukraine joins NATO if we choose. This should be the deal. Instead we are just walking away. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Voltaire 5,181 Posted March 4 33 minutes ago, thegeneral said: The President said Ukraine started the war, called Zelenskyy a dictator, we have voted with Russia and against EU allies in UN votes in past week, today Trump pulled funding from Ukraine, Def department suspended Russia cyber operations today…. What would you call this? Saying Ukraine started the war is incorrect. Russia started it. The rest of what he's doing is divesting the US of involvement now that the deal his administration struck with Ukraine has fallen through. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 2,883 Posted March 4 2 minutes ago, Voltaire said: Saying Ukraine started the war is incorrect. Russia started it. The rest of what he's doing is divesting the US of involvement now that the deal his administration struck with Ukraine has fallen through. In other words policy aligning with Russian vision like the Twitter person said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Voltaire 5,181 Posted March 4 2 minutes ago, thegeneral said: Russia gets the land it stole. Ukraine joins NATO if we choose. This should be the deal. Instead we are just walking away. OK fair enough. Admitting Ukraine to NATO would necessitate US involvement should Russia invade again, which hopefully never would happen as it would serve as a strong deterrent from such an invasion. That's one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 2,883 Posted March 4 1 minute ago, Voltaire said: OK fair enough. Admitting Ukraine to NATO would necessitate US involvement should Russia invade again, which hopefully never would happen as it would serve as a strong deterrent from such an invasion. That's one. Right. He got over with this and we decided to call his bluff. He got his little slice of that part of the world. Why we would walk away after years of slowly testing his made up redlines is crazy to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Voltaire 5,181 Posted March 4 10 minutes ago, thegeneral said: In other words policy aligning with Russian vision like the Twitter person said. Maybe the Desmond Tutu quote about choosing neither sides between the mouse and the elephant is more appropriate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 2,883 Posted March 4 18 minutes ago, Voltaire said: Maybe the Desmond Tutu quote about choosing neither sides between the mouse and the elephant is more appropriate. Not familiar with this but at some point you need to pick sides. Russia isn’t a good one to be with. I’ll go with the EU. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 1,286 Posted March 4 1 hour ago, The Girlfriend said: Arguing with a Cult-47er is like playing chess with a pigeon. They're just gonna scatter all the pieces, crap all over the board, and then strut around like they won the game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzLtF_PxbYw 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbycho 580 Posted March 4 46 minutes ago, thegeneral said: Not familiar with this but at some point you need to pick sides. Russia isn’t a good one to be with. I’ll go with the EU. No you don't. Let them kill each other if you don't want peace. They are like rival gangs in a city. All you can do is try to stop them but if they don't want that then let them kill each other. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 4,143 Posted March 4 I am questioning some of our strategy. While it makes sense, and I do like, the move to have Europe carry more of the responsibility for their local issues, I might also note that when left to handle their own business in the past....the sorta suck at it. The peace the world has enjoyed for the last 70 or so years (after world war 2) is mostly due to the United States involving ourselves in things. JMHO So on the one hand, yes! Europe...please handle your business and leave us out of it.....but on the other hand, most of the world sucks....it really does...like....people have no idea just how good we have it here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squistion 1,944 Posted March 4 This is appalling. https://x.com/P_Kallioniemi/status/1896824108316242387 Trump's demands to Zelenskyy (the defender): 1) Formal apology 2) Give up the minerals 3) Hold elections even though Ukrainian law forbids it 4) Declare Russia as the non-aggressor 5) Give up all the temporarily occupied territories to Russia Trump's demands to Putin (the aggressor): Absolutely nothing. This cannot be stressed enough - Trump is allied with Putin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fnord 2,051 Posted March 4 1 minute ago, RLLD said: I am questioning some of our strategy. While it makes sense, and I do like, the move to have Europe carry more of the responsibility for their local issues, I might also note that when left to handle their own business in the past....the sorta suck at it. The peace the world has enjoyed for the last 70 or so years (after world war 2) is mostly due to the United States involving ourselves in things. JMHO So on the one hand, yes! Europe...please handle your business and leave us out of it.....but on the other hand, most of the world sucks....it really does...like....people have no idea just how good we have it here. Does it bother you at all, as a man that has sworn an oath to defend the US Constitution, that our elected leader seems eager to align himself more with historical foes, as opposed to historical allies? Do you see any of his authoritarian tendencies? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 14,912 Posted March 4 1 minute ago, Fnord said: Does it bother you at all, as a man that has sworn an oath to defend the US Constitution, that our elected leader seems eager to align himself more with historical foes, as opposed to historical allies? Do you see any of his authoritarian tendencies? Good morning. So fockin stupid. Have a nice day! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 4,143 Posted March 4 1 minute ago, Fnord said: Does it bother you at all, as a man that has sworn an oath to defend the US Constitution, that our elected leader seems eager to align himself more with historical foes, as opposed to historical allies? Do you see any of his authoritarian tendencies? I am not observing how defending the constitution through careful diplomacy is mutually exclusive. I think often it arises that there is this notion that when we disagree with someone, or some nation, we have to ignore or cancel them. And I wonder to what end? Does refusing to engage with them help us? Or hurt us? Are we not far better served when we accept other for their failures and coexist as best we can? The alternative to peaceful coexistence seems less suitable to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fnord 2,051 Posted March 4 2 minutes ago, RLLD said: I am not observing how defending the constitution through careful diplomacy is mutually exclusive. I think often it arises that there is this notion that when we disagree with someone, or some nation, we have to ignore or cancel them. And I wonder to what end? Does refusing to engage with them help us? Or hurt us? Are we not far better served when we accept other for their failures and coexist as best we can? The alternative to peaceful coexistence seems less suitable to me. That was an artful dodge of my questions. Well done! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 4,143 Posted March 4 1 minute ago, Fnord said: That was an artful dodge of my questions. Well done! What part of my response are you not able to understand? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fnord 2,051 Posted March 4 9 minutes ago, RLLD said: What part of my response are you not able to understand? LOL. I understood all of it, and agree with it. But you avoided directly answering my question. Quote Does it bother you at all, as a man that has sworn an oath to defend the US Constitution, that our elected leader seems eager to align himself more with historical foes, as opposed to historical allies? Given Trump's behavior over the last 10 years, on the campaign trail, and in office, there is abundant evidence that he favors traditional foes of the US and has been, to put it nicely, standoffish with traditional allies. Are you just saying you are okay with that without actually coming out and stating it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 4,143 Posted March 4 29 minutes ago, Fnord said: LOL. I understood all of it, and agree with it. But you avoided directly answering my question. Given Trump's behavior over the last 10 years, on the campaign trail, and in office, there is abundant evidence that he favors traditional foes of the US and has been, to put it nicely, standoffish with traditional allies. Are you just saying you are okay with that without actually coming out and stating it? So I sought to diffuse the premise of your question, which is false. I agree with the approach overall on the part of Trump. The notion of "cancellation" can certainly be your(liberal) move when you have issues with others, but please do not suggest I should have to submit to it. Instead, I think it more useful to have careful diplomacy. That being said, I have already noted that this movement toward having Europe handle more of its business does make me wonder if that will really work, given their history Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squistion 1,944 Posted March 5 https://x.com/AhmedBaba_/status/1897302329046786252 First, Trump attacked Zelenskyy in the Oval Office as a pretext to pause aid to Ukraine. Now, his admin is pausing intelligence sharing with Ukraine. Trump is applying one-sided pressure on Ukraine, clearly trying to push Zelenskyy into surrendering to Putin’s demands. Gift link with more details: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/05/us/politics/cia-director-ukraine-intelligence.html?unlocked_article_code=1.1k4.9L41.h65a6FZXazLh&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seafoam1 2,798 Posted March 5 Just now, squistion said: https://x.com/AhmedBaba_/status/1897302329046786252 First, Trump attacked Zelenskyy in the Oval Office as a pretext to pause aid to Ukraine. Now, his admin is pausing intelligence sharing with Ukraine. Trump is applying one-sided pressure on Ukraine, clearly trying to push Zelenskyy into surrendering to Putin’s demands. Gift link with more details: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/05/us/politics/cia-director-ukraine-intelligence.html?unlocked_article_code=1.1k4.9L41.h65a6FZXazLh&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare Twitter guy getting his daily dose of "fair and balanced" news updates. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fnord 2,051 Posted March 5 2 hours ago, squistion said: https://x.com/AhmedBaba_/status/1897302329046786252 First, Trump attacked Zelenskyy in the Oval Office as a pretext to pause aid to Ukraine. Now, his admin is pausing intelligence sharing with Ukraine. Trump is applying one-sided pressure on Ukraine, clearly trying to push Zelenskyy into surrendering to Putin’s demands. Gift link with more details: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/05/us/politics/cia-director-ukraine-intelligence.html?unlocked_article_code=1.1k4.9L41.h65a6FZXazLh&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare We are witnessing a real-time global-level shakedown perpetrated by the US, with the victim being a European democracy at war with an authoritarian aggressor. Trump is running a protection racket on Ukraine so he can hand his boss Putin exactly what he wants. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 1,739 Posted March 5 22 minutes ago, Fnord said: We are witnessing a real-time global-level shakedown perpetrated by the US, Damn right, act like you know! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbycho 580 Posted March 5 24 minutes ago, Fnord said: We are witnessing a real-time global-level shakedown perpetrated by the US, with the victim being a European democracy at war with an authoritarian aggressor. Trump is running a protection racket on Ukraine so he can hand his boss Putin exactly what he wants. Wow. I never thought people could be this stupid. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Voltaire 5,181 Posted March 5 On 3/4/2025 at 8:17 AM, squistion said: This is appalling. https://x.com/P_Kallioniemi/status/1896824108316242387 Trump's demands to Zelenskyy (the defender): 1) Formal apology 2) Give up the minerals 3) Hold elections even though Ukrainian law forbids it 4) Declare Russia as the non-aggressor 5) Give up all the temporarily occupied territories to Russia Trump's demands to Putin (the aggressor): Absolutely nothing. This cannot be stressed enough - Trump is allied with Putin. This is awful (if accurate). I'll wait for the details first. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
