Autopen

[supermike80 1,874]

So it seems Biden may be admitting there was an autopen used for some of his signatures.  He is coming out claiming "I made the decisions"  That to me says there was an autopen used and it is going to come out.

The question is....What is the legality here?  Is it illegal to use an autopen if Biden says he approved all the things that were signed?  Is this a big nothing burger?

 

[Ron_Artest 1,278]

All presidents have used autopen.  Obama used it to sign a Patriot Act extension and was deemed legal though never challenged in court.  Biden's use of the autopen is likely legal as well but I have no doubts that Trump will find a judge that will rule it as illegal setting up for appeals and ultimately the supreme court.

It's a colossal waste of time, money and effort by a broken man who will never get over his 2020 election loss and has made it his last dying mission to take revenge on anything and everyone involved in his defeat.

[Strike 5,361]

His use of autopen is not disputed.  Whether HE was the one using it and they were his decisions to use it is.

[Strike 5,361]

6 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

All presidents have used autopen.  Obama used it to sign a Patriot Act extension and was deemed legal though never challenged in court.  Biden's use of the autopen is likely legal as well but I have no doubts that Trump will find a judge that will rule it as illegal setting up for appeals and ultimately the supreme court.

It's a colossal waste of time, money and effort by a broken man who will never get over his 2020 election loss and has made it his last dying mission to take revenge on anything and everyone involved in his defeat.

No focking way George Washington used an autopen.

[Mike Honcho 5,250]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

No focking way George Washington used an autopen.

You are correct - it was invented in 1803, Thomas Jefferson was the first to use it. 

Autopen

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,996]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

His use of autopen is not disputed.  Whether HE was the one using it and they were his decisions to use it is.

Yep.  This is the crux of the issue here.  This seems like members of the junta that were actually running the country were using it for their own benefit and hiding behind Biden.  I have ZERO doubt that Biden had no idea what he was doing and/or signing.  In fact, to me, this calls in questions numerous other orders and not just the pardons.

[supermike80 1,874]

4 minutes ago, Strike said:

His use of autopen is not disputed.  Whether HE was the one using it and they were his decisions to use it is.

Well if that is the case, I doubt that will ever come to light.  Biden has said he approved all of the signatures.  And that's a he said she said situation that has no end.

But are autopen pardons not technically legal?   I am asking cause I don't honestly know.

[Mike Honcho 5,250]

2 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Well if that is the case, I doubt that will ever come to light.  Biden has said he approved all of the signatures.  And that's a he said she said situation that has no end.

But are autopen pardons not technically legal?   I am asking cause I don't honestly know.

Never come before a judge, but laws and bills have been signed by it.  George W. Bush asked the DOJ about it, so for whatever that is worth:
 

President George W. Bush asked the Justice Department in 2005 if it was constitutional to use an autopen to sign a bill, with the department concluding that "the president need not personally perform the physical act of affixing his signature to a bill he approves and decides to sign in order for the bill to become law.

Full Story

[supermike80 1,874]

2 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Never come before a judge, but laws and bills have been signed by it.  George W. Bush asked the DOJ about it, so for whatever that is worth:
 

President George W. Bush asked the Justice Department in 2005 if it was constitutional to use an autopen to sign a bill, with the department concluding that "the president need not personally perform the physical act of affixing his signature to a bill he approves and decides to sign in order for the bill to become law.

Full Story

I mean it makes sense sure. Does that change however for pardons?

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,996]

4 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Never come before a judge, but laws and bills have been signed by it.  George W. Bush asked the DOJ about it, so for whatever that is worth:
 

President George W. Bush asked the Justice Department in 2005 if it was constitutional to use an autopen to sign a bill, with the department concluding that "the president need not personally perform the physical act of affixing his signature to a bill he approves and decides to sign in order for the bill to become law.

Full Story

Thanks.  Yeah, not sure how they're going to get around that.  I doubt this goes anywhere but I think most be understand that it was almost 100% abused under Biden and used by the junta behind the scenes running things to protect themselves and their friends, line their pockets and push thru their far-left pet projects.

[supermike80 1,874]

6 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Thanks.  Yeah, not sure how they're going to get around that.  I doubt this goes anywhere but I think most be understand that it was almost 100% abused under Biden and used by the junta behind the scenes running things to protect themselves and their friends, line their pockets and push thru their far-left pet projects.

I agree.  but an earlier poster had a good point.  The republicans are probably making a big deal out of this, just to do it.  And there are better things to focus on in my opinion.

[Tebok 442]

Autopen!

[Engorgeous George 2,255]

3 hours ago, supermike80 said:

So it seems Biden may be admitting there was an autopen used for some of his signatures.  He is coming out claiming "I made the decisions"  That to me says there was an autopen used and it is going to come out.

The question is....What is the legality here?  Is it illegal to use an autopen if Biden says he approved all the things that were signed?  Is this a big nothing burger?

 

Any signature or mark (yes one can still make their mark) is legal and fully binding if it is commonly used and acknowledged as one's own.  That is the basis of the e-signature industry.  Even before that, however, and before autopens, signature stamps routinely and commonly used and acknowledged were every bit as good as signatures.  There is nothing in the Constitution nor Federal laws or regulations to say otherwise.

 

The thing with Biden is not that it was used, but whether he knew it was being used so he could acknowledge the obligations of his signature.  If aids were using it and Biden was uanble to understand what was being signed, or if aids misrepresented what was being signed then there is a problem.

[supermike80 1,874]

1 minute ago, Engorgeous George said:

Any signature or mark (yes one can still make their mark) is legal and fully binding if it is commonly used and acknowledged as one's own.  That is the basis of the e-signature industry.  Even before that, however, and before autopens, signature stamps routinely and commonly used and acknowledged were every bit as good as signatures.  There is nothing in the Constitution nor Federal laws or regulations to say otherwise.

 

The thing with Biden is not that it was used, but whether he knew it was being used so he could acknowledge the obligations of his signature.  If aids were using it and Biden was uanble to understand what was being signed, or if aids misrepresented what was being signed then there is a problem.

Agreed.  But that will never be found out.  Gotta be why the dems made Biden make that statement 

[Engorgeous George 2,255]

1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

Agreed.  But that will never be found out.  Gotta be why the dems made Biden make that statement 

Pretty much going to need biden to say his aids duped him or did not even inform him of some matters for the autopen thing to have legs.  To get to the heart of the issue means getting to biden's subjective intent.  If he simply remains mum the whole matter will blow over.  If he refutes the allegations generally, the whole matter will blow over.  if he gets into specifics and clearly had no understanding of what had bee signed in his name the  matter could have some legs, but  will open a dangerous can of worms for any future presidents who use autopen and who may have diminished capacity or memory from nautral or unnatural causes.

 

We al pretty much know Biden is and has been a veg, well all but the most ardent and blind Biden acolytes of which there are some here.  The white house staff disgraced itself as did biden's family.  the 25th amendment was violated.  Still, nothing good can come of hashing these things out now that the matters are behind us.  Do we really want each administration to be retroacively dragged by incoming administrations?

[TheNewGirl 1,440]

I find it interesting that there is all this autopen stuff going on along with a lot of Biden admin folks (like KJP) coming out and saying they either "didn't know" or feel bad that they weren't told, told to ignore, etc. 

Everyone seems to be trying to cover their tracks. 

[BunnysBastatrds 2,383]

5 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

I find it interesting that there is all this autopen stuff going on along with a lot of Biden admin folks (like KJP) coming out and saying they either "didn't know" or feel bad that they weren't told, told to ignore, etc. 

Everyone seems to be trying to cover their tracks. 

   

 

 

[Tree of Knowledge 1,780]

Illegitimate President and illegitimate administration.  All acts should be stricken and people should be executed for treason.  This is what millions of Americans mandated with the historic Trumpslide.  Get to work DOJ.   The Biden Regime was the biggest scam in world history.  EXPUNGE.  

[WhiteWonder 2,712]

4 hours ago, supermike80 said:

I agree.  but an earlier poster had a good point.  The republicans are probably making a big deal out of this, just to do it.  And there are better things to focus on in my opinion.

Agreed, same way there were better things for dems to focus on during Bidens administration than how to "get Trump". 

The man was forced to drop out of the race and his VP got demolished. It's over. Shouldn't really be bringing him up unless it's to discuss specific policy changes

[Tree of Knowledge 1,780]

45 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

Agreed, same way there were better things for dems to focus on during Bidens administration than how to "get Trump". 

The man was forced to drop out of the race and his VP got demolished. It's over. Shouldn't really be bringing him up unless it's to discuss specific policy changes

They rigged the 2020 election, they tried to jail and quite possibly assassinate the opposition, Biden was incapacitated a majority of his term, unelected staff drew up pardons, created executive orders, wasted billions of taxpayer dollars and left our southern border open to invasion.  It is imperative that our country never let this happen against any cost.  

[WhiteWonder 2,712]

2 minutes ago, Tree of Knowledge said:

They rigged the 2020 election, they tried to jail and quite possibly assassinate the opposition, Biden was incapacitated a majority of his term, unelected staff drew up pardons, created executive orders, wasted billions of taxpayer dollars and left our southern border open to invasion.  It is imperative that our country never let this happen against any cost.  

cool

1. the 2020 election happened in 2020. Get over it. Whatever you think happened, your guy is in office again... what does crying about 2020 accomplish now?

2. Biden was mostly a vegetable in rapid decline. This is what I meant when I said there were more important things for dems to focus on rather than how to "get Trump". Imagine spending 4 years hyper focused on Trump when your own elected official is asleep at the wheel...  no need for the current administration to do the same. 

3. The wasting of taxpayer dollars, open borders, etc is policy stuff. Like I said, fair game. 

 

focusing on things like autopen is just silly at this point. Common sense should tell you the party is in power anyway, not the person.

[Tree of Knowledge 1,780]

3 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

cool

1. the 2020 election happened in 2020. Get over it. Whatever you think happened, your guy is in office again... what does crying about 2020 accomplish now?

2. Biden was mostly a vegetable in rapid decline. This is what I meant when I said there were more important things for dems to focus on rather than how to "get Trump". Imagine spending 4 years hyper focused on Trump when your own elected official is asleep at the wheel...  no need for the current administration to do the same. 

3. The wasting of taxpayer dollars, open borders, etc is policy stuff. Like I said, fair game. 

 

focusing on things like autopen is just silly at this point. Common sense should tell you the party is in power anyway, not the person.

Nobody is crying. We are demanding justice be done so it never happens again. What happened goes way beyond politics as normal.  I don’t want to dwell on it. Swift justice works.  Let them chill in DC Gulag for the next few years until they can get their time in court.  Meanwhile, the Republic can begin to heal.