U.S. & Venezuela Thread - Trump: "We're in charge"

[SaintsInDome2006 843]

26 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Trump approves of this playbook. He's already been using it.

I agree. And it’s wild how much all of that was done in a system very similar to ours.

I think it’s also likely that as much as Rubio pounds on about democracy Trump doesn’t like it one bit.

Does anyone remember the genuinely weird references Trump made during the election that if he lost he would flee to Venezuela?

[Strike 6,096]

Just now, Ron_Artest said:

Well it was illegal.

Says you, but as we've seen as recently as this morning, you're wrong.  A lot.

[SaintsInDome2006 843]

3 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said:

The Colombian Army has deployed troops to the Paraguachon border crossing with Venezuela, reinforcing a permanent military presence in the municipality of Maicao in the department of La Guajira, according to an official statement released Sunday.

Good & necessary move.

It’s also certain that all this is going to cause a massive emigre problem & Colombia has to deal with that as well. We will too.

[Ron_Artest 2,628]

3 minutes ago, Strike said:

Says you, but as we've seen as recently as this morning, you're wrong.  A lot.

The UN secretary-general has said he is “deeply concerned” that US actions in Venezuela do not respect the rules of international law.

In remarks read on his behalf by Rosemary DiCarlo, the under-secretary-general, during the UN security council meeting on Venezuela, António Guterres called for respect for the independence of states.

Guterres urged “respect for the principles of sovereignty, political independence and territorial integrity of states” in the statement.

He added: “I am deeply concerned about the possible intensification [of] instability in the country, the potential impact on the region, and the precedent it may set for how relations between and among states are conducted.”

https://www.thetimes.com/us/news-today/article/venezuela-trump-latest-news-president-maduro-court-live-788bkr9xc

[Ron_Artest 2,628]

1 minute ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Good & necessary move.

It’s also certain that all this is going to cause a massive emigre problem & Colombia has to deal with that as well. We will too.

The ripple effects will be global.  Putin has no reason to agree to a peace deal.  China feels emboldened to take Taiwan.  We've ushered in a new era of "might means right".

 

[SaintsInDome2006 843]

10 minutes ago, Strike said:

Link supporting this statement?  My understanding is that this indictment is a continuation of indictments dating back to 2011.  In fact, this indictment is like the 260th court filing in the case. It's a "superseding" indictment and not the original indictment.  I'm open to being proven wrong though so please provide a link saying Biden INITIATED the indictments against Maduro and his wife.  

Here’s the 2020 indictment.

Biden DOJ also put a 25 million $ bounty on Maduro & his wife each.

Cilia Maduro was also indicted, she’s a serious criminal in her own right. And Maduro’s nephews were arrested & convicted.

The indictment brought today is a superseding indictment.

[SaintsInDome2006 843]

And in case people don’t know FARC are the communist rebels who were vicious & constantly attacking Colombia, a democratic success story. We were very successful partners in fighting narco trafficking & democratic allies with Colombia until El Jefe Naranja appeared.

[Strike 6,096]

4 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Here’s the 2020 indictment.

Biden DOJ also put a 25 million $ bounty on Maduro & his wife each.

Cilia Maduro was also indicted, she’s a serious criminal in her own right. And Maduro’s nephews were arrested & convicted.

The indictment brought today is a superseding indictment.

1)  That is not an indictment.  It's a press release.

2)  From your own link:

Quote

A four-count superseding indictment unsealed today in the Southern District of New York (SDNY) charges Nicolás Maduro Moros, 57; Diosdado Cabello Rondón, 56, head of Venezuela’s National Constituent Assembly; Hugo Armando Carvajal Barrios aka “El Pollo,” 59, former director of military intelligence; Clíver Antonio Alcalá Cordones, 58, former General in the Venezuelan armed forces; Luciano Marín Arango aka “Ivan Marquez,” 64, a member of the FARC’s Secretariat, which is the FARC’s highest leadership body; and Seuxis Paucis Hernández Solarte aka “Jesús Santrich,” 53, a member of the FARC’s Central High Command, which is the FARC’s second-highest leadership body.  The case is pending before U.S. District Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein.

As I said, Biden did not initiate the proceedings.

[SaintsInDome2006 843]

8 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

The ripple effects will be global.  Putin has no reason to agree to a peace deal.  China feels emboldened to take Taiwan.  We've ushered in a new era of "might means right".

Absolutely. Our whole post Cold War ideology of democracy & rules based order are wrecked. Putin & Xi celebrate every bit of this.

[SaintsInDome2006 843]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

That is not an indictment.  It's a press release.

I’m sorry, are you claiming Maduro wasn’t indicted per that 2020 release?

I referenced the superseding indictment in my OP.

[Frozenbeernuts 2,516]

10 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

The ripple effects will be global.  Putin has no reason to agree to a peace deal.  China feels emboldened to take Taiwan.  We've ushered in a new era of "might means right".

 

Try singing Kumbaya a couple times a day. All liberals should do this.

[Hardcore troubadour 16,148]

[Ron_Artest 2,628]

3 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I’m sorry, are you claiming Maduro wasn’t indicted per that 2020 release?

I referenced the superseding indictment in my OP.

It wasn't the Biden DOJ, it was the Trump DOJ.

[Strike 6,096]

Just now, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I’m sorry, are you claiming Maduro wasn’t indicted per that 2020 release?

I referenced the superseding indictment in my OP.

Your contention was the Biden initiated the indictment allowing for Maduro to be arrested.  That is, just like Artest contending that the chick won the Venezuelan election, factually incorrect.  The indictment of Maduro goes back to 2011, well before Biden.  Biden's is just an amended indictment, just like the one Trump just filed.  By your logic, it's actually Trump's indictment that allowed for him to arrest Maduro, not Biden's:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/media/1422326/dl?inline

In reality, Maduro has been a wanted man for 15 years.  These indictments just make the older ones current with new information.

[SaintsInDome2006 843]

6 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

It wasn't the Biden DOJ, it was the Trump DOJ.

Youre right, I see that now, it was Bill Barr.

[SaintsInDome2006 843]

27 minutes ago, Strike said:

Your contention was the Biden initiated the indictment allowing for Maduro to be arrested.  That is, just like Artest contending that the chick won the Venezuelan election, factually incorrect.  The indictment of Maduro goes back to 2011, well before Biden.  Biden's is just an amended indictment, just like the one Trump just filed.  By your logic, it's actually Trump's indictment that allowed for him to arrest Maduro, not Biden's:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/media/1422326/dl?inline

In reality, Maduro has been a wanted man for 15 years.  These indictments just make the older ones current with new information.

That is the superseding, but no matter, the original indictment against the Maduros that the raid was based on was filed by Bill Barr’s DOJ, not the Biden DOJ.  This is the 2020 indictment by SDNY USA Geoffrey Berman.

Berman was the USA who resigned & eventually testified against Trump.

[SaintsInDome2006 843]

This warrant thing is going to be pretty interesting if Congress doesn’t pass a war authorization. Bush got all his ducks in a row before going into Panama. Trump didn’t even follow the War Powers Act.

[SaintsInDome2006 843]

DOJ DepAG Ed Martin tossing around the rumor Trump will let Maduro off the hook for doing a Burisma “perfect call” deal whereby he says that VZ was part of 2020 election fraud (not Venezuela’s of course). 

[Ron_Artest 2,628]

22 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

DOJ DepAG Ed Martin tossing around the rumor Trump will let Maduro off the hook for doing a Burisma “perfect call” deal whereby he says that VZ was part of 2020 election fraud (not Venezuela’s of course). 

That would be hilarious

[Fnord 2,679]

19 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

DOJ DepAG Ed Martin tossing around the rumor Trump will let Maduro off the hook for doing a Burisma “perfect call” deal whereby he says that VZ was part of 2020 election fraud (not Venezuela’s of course). 

Of course.

Is Venezuela worth going to war with if:

We stop the flow of fentanyl: HAH! Everyone knows it's not coming from there! NO!

We stop the flow of cocaine: nah, lots of the Don's friends use coke

We get the oil: mmm... maaaaaybe since there's lots of money to be made

We get Maduro to testify that he was involved with voting machine fraud in 2020 despite zero corroborating evidence: DEPLOY THE FOCKING TROOPS!

[Hardcore troubadour 16,148]

42 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

DOJ DepAG Ed Martin tossing around the rumor Trump will let Maduro off the hook for doing a Burisma “perfect call” deal whereby he says that VZ was part of 2020 election fraud (not Venezuela’s of course). 

They were. Other countries too. 

[SaintsInDome2006 843]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

They were. Other countries too. 

Yeah, like Italy! And Ukraine! Took the Smartmatics across the Dolamites by donkey then put them on tramp steamer to Havana. There one J. Peterman smuggled them in via Caracas on the SS Oswald. 

[Ron_Artest 2,628]

6 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

They were. Other countries too. 

[SaintsInDome2006 843]

Judge Alvin Hellerstein - the judge handling the Maduros case in SDNY

This is not going to be an automatic win for the DOJ.

[dogcows 1,375]

1 hour ago, Fnord said:

Of course.

Is Venezuela worth going to war with if:

We stop the flow of fentanyl: HAH! Everyone knows it's not coming from there! NO!

We stop the flow of cocaine: nah, lots of the Don's friends use coke

We get the oil: mmm... maaaaaybe since there's lots of money to be made

We get Maduro to testify that he was involved with voting machine fraud in 2020 despite zero corroborating evidence: DEPLOY THE FOCKING TROOPS!

It's oil and mineral resources.

I think Russia is silent on this because this was part of a deal with Trump. Trump stays out of the Ukraine war and Putin backs off from Venezuela.

[Fnord 2,679]

2 minutes ago, dogcows said:

It's oil and mineral resources.

I think Russia is silent on this because this was part of a deal with Trump. Trump stays out of the Ukraine war and Putin backs off from Venezuela.

Maybe. I've heard dumber theories than your quid pro quo one. On this board. Today. Several times.

[Grace Under Pressure 249]

Donald Trump shouldn’t be deciding anything.

MAGA thinks this is good, because MAGA is a cult with Trump as the cult leader. 

It’s not “good”. Gullible people, don’t worship another person. 

[dogcows 1,375]

It’s not just the MAGA geeks here that flip-flopped on regime change:

https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:ks3gpa6ftoyaq7hmf6c4qx4c/post/3mbntvx2buc2n

That being said, I have come to realize that most MAGA fans wear their hypocrisy as a badge of honor.

[Hardcore troubadour 16,148]

92 year old judge. WTF are we doing? 

[dogcows 1,375]

5 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

92 year old judge. WTF are we doing? 

Says the guy who supports the oldest president ever to be inaugurated.

ZERO self-awareness.  

[SaintsInDome2006 843]

6 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

92 year old judge. WTF are we doing? 

Ha, this will be fun. 

[Hardcore troubadour 16,148]

1 minute ago, dogcows said:

Says the guy who supports the oldest president ever to be inaugurated.

ZERO self-awareness.  

Yeah. 14 years means nothing.  What a jackass. 

[SaintsInDome2006 843]

One of the keys to the multiple wins by Comey & James in court have been Trump’s own statements. That will likely be brought up here too.

Straight out the gate the Maduros are arguing they are prisoners of war, which brings them under The Hague Convention. I don’t know if they have the horses for that but if they do it will be because of substantial help from Trump posing as a war leader & caudillo.

[Hardcore troubadour 16,148]

Imagine how delusional and desperate you must be to think that Comey is a good guy being charged for no good reason. 

[SaintsInDome2006 843]

Wiles represented a Venezuelan TV network

>>>Wiles was a partner at Ballard Partners, a regional firm that lobbied for Trump’s companies in Florida. Shortly after Trump’s election, Ballard set up shop in Washington and quickly became a dominant player, pulling in more than $70 million in lobbying fees during Trump’s presidency, representing a who’s who of corporate America, lobbying disclosures show.

Many of Wiles’ clients were plain vanilla entities with obvious aims — General Motors, a trade group for children’s hospitals, homebuilders, and the City of Jacksonville. 

One in particular stood out that speaks to the ways, subtle or otherwise, that foreign interests seek to influence U.S. policy. In 2017, Wiles registered as a lobbyist for Globovisión, a Venezuelan TV network owned by Raúl Gorrín, a businessman charged in Miami with money laundering.

Gorrín bought the broadcast company in 2013 and immediately softened its anti-government coverage. He hired Ballard to advise on “general government policies and regulations,” lobbying disclosures show. But rather than working with the agencies that oversee telecommunications, Ballard’s lobbying was trained on the White House, which would have little say in regulating a foreign broadcaster in the U.S. Globovisión paid Ballard $800,000 for a year of work.

Brian Ballard, president of the firm, said that it’s clear to him that Gorrín’s aims weren’t limited to the media business. Gorrín, who owns several luxury properties in Miami, had long positioned himself as a bridge between Venezuela’s socialist government and U.S. officials.

By the time Wiles and a team of Ballard lobbyists represented Globovisión, Gorrín was leading a quiet charm offensive for Nicolás Maduro’s government that sought closer ties with Trump at a time when the country was facing food shortages, violent crime and hyperinflation. It started before Trump took office when Citgo, a subsidiary of Venezuela’s state-owned oil company, kicked in a $500,000 donation for Trump’s inauguration. 

“He was a fraud and as soon as we learned he was a fraud, we fired him,” said Ballard. “He would ask us to set up a lot of things, in LA and D.C., and then nothing would happen. It was all a fantasy. He just wanted to use our firm.”

A few days after Ballard dropped Gorrín in 2018, federal prosecutors unsealed charges against the businessman for allegedly using the U.S. finance system to supply Venezuelan officials with private jets, a yacht and champion show-jumping horses as part of a fake loan scheme perpetrated by insiders to pilfer the state’s coffers. Last month, he was charged a second time, also out of Miami, in another scheme to siphon $1 billion from the state oil company, PDVSA.<<

[SaintsInDome2006 843]

16 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Imagine how delusional and desperate you must be to think that Comey is a good guy being charged for no good reason. 

This only strengthens the point. This DOJ bollocksed an urgent case against Comey, an evil bad guy they had to win against. - Enter the Maduros.

[TimHauck 3,507]

2 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

One of the keys to the multiple wins by Comey & James in court have been Trump’s own statements. That will likely be brought up here too.

Straight out the gate the Maduros are arguing they are prisoners of war, which brings them under The Hague Convention. I don’t know if they have the horses for that but if they do it will be because of substantial help from Trump posing as a war leader & caudillo.

Am I the only one that thinks it’s weird that they indicted his wife too?  I would imagine the evidence against her might be tougher to come up with 

[shadrap 279]

6 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Am I the only one that thinks it’s weird that they indicted his wife too?  I would imagine the evidence against her might be tougher to come up with 

give her immunity & bingo she blabs.  may not be the truth but it will be what they want to hear.  not a fan of it at all, but it's the way it works.

[Maximum Overkill 2,686]

There is a Military Coup as we speak in Venezuela. The Military is overthrowing the Government, all hell is breaking loose. 

Get your popcorns ready! 

[SaintsInDome2006 843]

12 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Am I the only one that thinks it’s weird that they indicted his wife too?  I would imagine the evidence against her might be tougher to come up with 

Cilia is a serious political & criminal figure in VZ. She’s not there solely as a pressure point on Maduros. Barr DOJ indicted her in 2020 as well.