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Sorry another Hunt Question: Is Barkley really a no brainer over Hunt ?


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#81 seafoam1

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 04:38 PM

Don't worry Future HOF QB Eli Manning will do just fine this year. Not saying he will be the future but Davis Webb has a lot of buzz in the organization

 

He threw 19 TDs last year. That should give a lot of confidence. Are you drafting him as your #1? Or are you just going to pick him up off the waiver wire?

 

And if he makes the HOF, it's only because of his last name. 



#82 jrokh

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 04:43 PM

Mitch Trubisky threw 7TD and & 7 Interceptions with a 28.5 QBR last year. Are you going to draft him # 1 or just pick him up off the waiver wire?



#83 seafoam1

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 04:45 PM

Mitch Trubisky threw 7TD and & 7 Interceptions with a 28.5 QBR last year. Are you going to draft him # 1 or just pick him up off the waiver wire?

 

Probably neither. He's basically a rookie QB. But you said manning will be fine. Just curious where you are drafting him?



#84 jrokh

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 04:50 PM

I haven't had any drafts yet, but I will be sure to keep you posted...



#85 seafoam1

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 04:51 PM

I haven't had any drafts yet, but I will be sure to keep you posted...

Ok. Where do you have him in your rankings? Top 5? I mean, 19 whole TDs last year in 15 games!

 

It only took him 115 passes to get his tight end 64 catches. Amazingly efficient.

 

Oh, and tough talk about Trubisky. Manning had less TDs and more interceptions in his own rookie year. Try 6 TDs and 9 INTs.



#86 tanatastic

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 08:04 PM

Ok. Where do you have him in your rankings? Top 5? I mean, 19 whole TDs last year in 15 games!
 
It only took him 115 passes to get his tight end 64 catches. Amazingly efficient.
 
Oh, and tough talk about Trubisky. Manning had less TDs and more interceptions in his own rookie year. Try 6 TDs and 9 INTs.

Healthy Odell, impact RB, Im guessing Eli has a bounce back season. Nothing crazy, but back to something around his average at least. Will be a popular streamer to pick up this year when the matchup is right.

#87 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 10:44 PM

 
He threw 19 TDs last year. That should give a lot of confidence. Are you drafting him as your #1? Or are you just going to pick him up off the waiver wire?
 
And if he makes the HOF, it's only because of his last name. 


Saw him tear up the super bowl champs twice. The second time with an even worse o-line than the first time and no one to catch the ball. Or run it.

#88 seafoam1

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 02:42 AM

Saw him tear up the super bowl champs twice. The second time with an even worse o-line than the first time and no one to catch the ball. Or run it.

19 of 34 passing and 17 points was tearing it up? Wow, the manning lovers don't like to give credit to teammates.  And a circus catch saved one of the victories. Did you even watch the games?  Dude threw 19 TDs and 13 INTs last year. And you are all up in his junk about how great he is?

 

Where are you hoping to draft him this year? 3rd round? 



#89 seafoam1

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 03:45 AM

Healthy Odell, impact RB, Im guessing Eli has a bounce back season. Nothing crazy, but back to something around his average at least. Will be a popular streamer to pick up this year when the matchup is right.

 

Sure. But he is undraftable (if that is  word). If you need to pick up a QB mid season from the WW then injuries are killing you. Eli Manning has nothing for fantasy investment in the draft. He will probably go undrafted in every format. But that said, there are a lot of Giants fans out there so maybe not.



#90 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 05:29 AM

19 of 34 passing and 17 points was tearing it up? Wow, the manning lovers don't like to give credit to teammates.  And a circus catch saved one of the victories. Did you even watch the games?  Dude threw 19 TDs and 13 INTs last year. And you are all up in his junk about how great he is?
 
Where are you hoping to draft him this year? 3rd round? 


He went over 300 and then over 400. And 5 TD's in the two games. Can you read?

#91 seafoam1

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 07:42 AM

He went over 300 and then over 400. And 5 TD's in the two games. Can you read?

Dude had 23 TDs and 20 INTs in 2007. 56.1 completion % and you are telling me he carried the giants? 255 yards passing in the superbowl. Did he play defense and keep the Patriots to 14 points? The team carried manning. 



#92 LoOnAtIk

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 03:13 PM

Barkley could be really good. Last year manning had 19 passing TDs and 13 interceptions. They may want to run the ball a lot more. :)
 
It's shocking the Giants didn't take a QB in the draft. They can save $17 million against the cap if they release manning next spring. He is not their future, and now they don't have a QB they can sit for a year and maybe be ready next year. That $17 million is a lot of money they could have thrown at oline or defense in 2019.. 


As you mentioned before though,

The giants O-line last year was horrifically bad. Zero run game. OBJ, Marshall, Shepard all got hurt.

No o-line and no weapons is not a recipe for success for any QB. Look how well Geno played in his only start.

#93 shutdown

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 03:30 PM

Case Keenum threw for 3,500 yards and 22 TD's in 14.5 games last year in this offense, his YPG and TD's were 12 & 13 ranked in 2017.

 

I'd argue that the Giants WR and TE's are slightly better than Minnesota's, mostly because of Beckham.  The giants O-line is probably 7-9 spots worse based on this years rankings.  All that said, I think the numbers Keenum put up in Shurmur's offense are a floor for Manning this season, which would make him a fringe QB1 this year depending on your league size.

 

That should be enough to allow Barkley to run vs without seeing extra players in the box.



#94 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 03:55 PM

Dude had 23 TDs and 20 INTs in 2007. 56.1 completion % and you are telling me he carried the giants? 255 yards passing in the superbowl. Did he play defense and keep the Patriots to 14 points? The team carried manning. 


I thought we were taking about last year, not the first time Eli was super bowl MVP. He carried them to his second title though.

#95 seafoam1

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 04:06 PM

I thought we were taking about last year, not the first time Eli was super bowl MVP. He carried them to his second title though.


The MVP should have been the defense. I have no idea why manning got that.

#96 seafoam1

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 04:25 PM

Case Keenum threw for 3,500 yards and 22 TD's in 14.5 games last year in this offense, his YPG and TD's were 12 & 13 ranked in 2017.
 
I'd argue that the Giants WR and TE's are slightly better than Minnesota's, mostly because of Beckham.  The giants O-line is probably 7-9 spots worse based on this years rankings.  All that said, I think the numbers Keenum put up in Shurmur's offense are a floor for Manning this season, which would make him a fringe QB1 this year depending on your league size.
 
That should be enough to allow Barkley to run vs without seeing extra players in the box.


I would rather have Diggs, Theilen, Rudolph, and Cook over what the giants have. Of course 3500 yards in a season isn't all that great for a fantasy QB. It will be interesting to see how Cousins does up there.

#97 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:21 PM

The MVP should have been the defense. I have no idea why manning got that.


Two TD's in the fourth quarter? That should have tipped you off.

#98 seafoam1

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:33 PM

Two TD's in the fourth quarter? That should have tipped you off.


Zero TDs quarters 1-3 sucks. Defense won that game.

#99 DrG

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:50 PM

Id be curious to hear from Giants homers if they think Webb is the heir apparent.

Someone brought up Gurleys rookie year and there was less talent around him than who Barkley will have with him

#100 LoOnAtIk

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:13 PM

I would rather have Diggs, Theilen, Rudolph, and Cook over what the giants have. Of course 3500 yards in a season isn't all that great for a fantasy QB. It will be interesting to see how Cousins does up there.


You may be splitting hairs here in terms of surrounding talent but we can all agree OBJ is more talented/accomplished than anyone in a Vikings uniform.

Or maybe we cant agree on anything lol

A healthy OBJ will always keep defenses honest and will always help QBs, regardless of how bad they might be. Healthy OBJ + Barkley will do wonders for Eli.

#101 seafoam1

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:53 PM

 

I'll take Barkley top 3.  He doesn't need a good OLine to put up great numbers.  My top 7...

  1. David Johnson
  2. Ezekiel Elliott
  3. Saquon Barkley
  4. Le'Veon Bell
  5. Todd Gurley
  6. Kareem Hunt
  7. Alvin Kamara

 

 

If he doesn't need a good Oline, why is it then when I bring up his poor games (less than 3 yards per carry), last year in college, I hear, "well Penn State's Oline was bad"? I get it he has a lot of promise, but better than Bell, Gurley, Hunt, and Kamara? That's a tall order. 

 

And Arizona lost Shipley, their veteran center this past week. Out for he year. He was described as the leader of that Oline. I think they have to start a rookie unless they go out and get another player. I have Johnson as a keeper and that bums me out a little, but I have seen Johnson do without a good Oline.in the past.  



#102 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 11:17 PM

Zero TDs quarters 1-3 sucks. Defense won that game.


Eli handed the defense the lead in the fourth quarter. They didn't hold it. He got it back.

#103 seafoam1

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 11:17 PM

You may be splitting hairs here in terms of surrounding talent but we can all agree OBJ is more talented/accomplished than anyone in a Vikings uniform.

Or maybe we cant agree on anything lol

A healthy OBJ will always keep defenses honest and will always help QBs, regardless of how bad they might be. Healthy OBJ + Barkley will do wonders for Eli.

 

Beckham shows more and can score with the best of them. Comparing Thielen's  2017 #'s to Beckhm's 2016, Thielen had a better catch % but less TDs. Beckham needed 169 targets to get his 101 catches, where Thielen 142 to get 91. Nearly 30 more passes to get just 10 more catches. If NY starts giving a lot more touches to their new RB like everyone is saying, and to their second year TE to get more work than 64 catches, those touches have to come from somewhere. 

 

It will be interesting to see for sure. I think if Diggs can be healthy, he breaks out this year. He had 84 catches in 2016 with a 75% catch rate.  Only 112 targets.  



#104 LoOnAtIk

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 12:03 AM

 

Beckham shows more and can score with the best of them. Comparing Thielen's  2017 #'s to Beckhm's 2016, Thielen had a better catch % but less TDs. Beckham needed 169 targets to get his 101 catches, where Thielen 142 to get 91. Nearly 30 more passes to get just 10 more catches. If NY starts giving a lot more touches to their new RB like everyone is saying, and to their second year TE to get more work than 64 catches, those touches have to come from somewhere. 

 

It will be interesting to see for sure. I think if Diggs can be healthy, he breaks out this year. He had 84 catches in 2016 with a 75% catch rate.  Only 112 targets.  

 

I think Thielen is awesome, better than Diggs tbh. 

 

But don't compare him to OBJ please. You have eye balls and a brain.

 

Catch % is not a comprehensive stat for a WRs value. It has nothing, literally nothing, to do with route running and separation. OBJ does this as good if not better than anyone.



#105 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 12:25 AM

Diggs had 2 big games out of 13 last year, and one decent one. The other 10 were garbage.

#106 seafoam1

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 12:33 AM

Diggs had 2 big games out of 13 last year, and one decent one. The other 10 were garbage.

He was playing injured. And he had 8 TDs. The great Beckham had 3.

 

Diggs had 64 catches but was hampered. He had 84 receptions the year before. And it seems you only go like players that were not injured and had huge years the previous year. Do you quit drafting after the first round?



#107 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 12:50 AM

He was playing injured. And he had 8 TDs. The great Beckham had 3.
 
Diggs had 64 catches but was hampered. He had 84 receptions the year before. And it seems you only go like players that were not injured and had huge years the previous year. Do you quit drafting after the first round?


Oh, didn't know he was injured. Was he injured the year before when he didn't crack 1k and had 3 TD's? Funny how you skipped over last years stats. 10 games of garbage. Did he have any corrective surgery this off season? He didn't look injured in the playoffs. Lol.

#108 seafoam1

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 12:58 AM

Oh, didn't know he was injured. Was he injured the year before when he didn't crack 1k and had 3 TD's? Funny how you skipped over last years stats. 10 games of garbage. Did he have any corrective surgery this off season? He didn't look injured in the playoffs. Lol.

No. They rested him at times. Some players do get healthy while still playing through things. And since you mention the playoffs, he had 14 catches for 207 yards and a TD in 2 games. Not good enough for you? Just don't draft him. I'm sure all 4th and 5th rounders you draft get 1000 yards and 90 catches.

 

When you get 90 catches and 1100+ yards, you are a first or second round pick. When did I suggest Diggs was that?

 

I'm taking a chance on Diggs with Cousins. He will outperform his ADP. Another 80+ catch year with better yardage. At least 8 TDs.



#109 tanatastic

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 01:40 AM

He was playing injured. And he had 8 TDs. The great Beckham had 3.
 

Seriously? You have some good arguments in some threads but then sometimes you say stuff like this. Odell played 4 games, even bringing up his td total is bad arguing. The great Beckham...said sarcastically...yes, he is great, look at every other year he has played. Dude was going to have a monster season last year, same as every year. His rookie season in 12 games alone is a bigger season than Diggs will prob ever have. So please, you have some good stuff in this thread, dont devalue it with things like this.

Nothing against Diggs, Im sure he will be fine.

#110 seafoam1

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 01:47 AM

Seriously? You have some good arguments in some threads but then sometimes you say stuff like this. Odell played 4 games, even bringing up his td total is bad arguing. The great Beckham...said sarcastically...yes, he is great, look at every other year he has played. Dude was going to have a monster season last year, same as every year. His rookie season in 12 games alone is a bigger season than Diggs will prob ever have. So please, you have some good stuff in this thread, dont devalue it with things like this.

I was absolutely being sarcastic. Because someone was putting down Digg's stats when Diggs was suffering from a groin injury, I figured why not throw another injured player in on the stats talk? It makes zero logical sense for someone to put down a player with 64 catches and almost 900 yards and 8 TDs who had a groin injury and then state he was mostly terrible on the year.
 
Beckham had 4 games and 1 of them he caught 4 for 36 and zero TDs and 1 game 7 for 90 with zero TDs.. And he is considered the best in the NFL?. 2 of 4 games produced a total of 23.6 points in a PPR. That's 50% of his games. That is a first round draft pick here. He may win you 2 games, but then he may lose you 2 games. But that is what most receivers are.  
 
No monster games recorded.
 
And as far as Diggs never having as good a season as Beckham, where are the 169 targets coming from this year for Beckham? Beckham needed 169 targets in 2016 to get his 101 catches (60%). Diggs caught 75% of his targets in 2016 for 84 catches and he showed in his last 5 games played last season, including playoffs, he is getting better. But from what I hear from most people on this site is that the Giants are going to feed Barkley to the point that he is a #3 RB overall or something close to that. Are they going to take targets away from Engram, or a secondary receiver, Shepard or whoever, to give Beckham another 169 targets?
 
And manning is not a good QB. If you think he is, then what round are you targeting him in? 

#111 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 08:22 AM



If he doesn't need a good Oline, why is it then when I bring up his poor games (less than 3 yards per carry), last year in college, I hear, "well Penn State's Oline was bad"? I get it he has a lot of promise, but better than Bell, Gurley, Hunt, and Kamara? That's a tall order. 

 

And Arizona lost Shipley, their veteran center this past week. Out for he year. He was described as the leader of that Oline. I think they have to start a rookie unless they go out and get another player. I have Johnson as a keeper and that bums me out a little, but I have seen Johnson do without a good Oline.in the past.  

 

It's all about opportunity.  In NY, no one is going to take carries away from Barkley.  Yeah, they have "guys" there, but they're only going to get a handful of touches a game.  I expect Barkley to get about 16-18 carries, per game (which should put him in the top 5.  I also think they're going to use him in the passing game a lot.  I think he's going to have a season similar to David Johnson.  Yes, the Giants do have more options in the passing game than Arizona, but I don't think Sheppard is going to command as many targets and I don't think Engram is going to get anywhere close to what he did last year.  After all, Beckham did miss most of the season.
 
In Arizona, there's only Fitz and Johnson.  That's it.  No one else is going to "command" targets.  They'll get both of them the ball.  Regardless of who their Center is in Arizona, Johnson will get virtually all of the carries and probably 6-10 receiving opportunities per game.
 
I don't think the Chiefs are going to give Hunt 325 touches again this year.  If Ware is healthy, he's definitely going to cut into Hunt's workload.  They may have a similar game plan that the Saints had last year.  Now, you may say, "Yeah, well Kamara finished as the #3 RB last year."  True, but 2 things are important in that ranking... 1) David Johnson missed the whole year and Elliott missed 6 games. 2) The Saints have Drew Brees & Michael Thomas.  Also when it comes to "opportunity", as I mentioned earlier, other than Ware, the Chiefs have Kelce, Hill, and Wilson who Ried is going to get involved.  That's a lot of mouths to feed.
 
In another post a while back, I posted something on Bell's "fantasy efficiency".  Basically, over the last 3 years, he's getting less points per touch each year.  He's coming off a year with over 400 touches.  The last time he came close to that (373 in 2014), he averaged 1 point per touch (almost... he had 370.5 points [0.993])... the following year, he got hurt.  Last year, with his 406 touches, he avearged 0.85 points per touch which is a drop of 15.4%.  I also think that the Steelers are going to spread the ball around more, so I don't think Bell will get the touches.  Of course, you could point to the fact that with less touches he was more efficient, but remember, he got hurt the year after he had the biggest number of touches.  Do I factor in injuries?  Not really.  But I do take into account history.  Bell has over 1500 touches as an RB, so while he is young (only 26), he's still more likely to get hurt than others.  He also did get hurt in 2015.  So, there is that.
 
Last year, Gurley had 2100 total yards and 19 TD's last year.  I don't think he does that again.  I'm thinking 1800 yards and 14 TD's is more likely to happen this year.  That's a reduction of 60 points right there.  I'm also thinking another 10-15 less receptions.  Let's call it 12 (split the difference), and now we're at 72 points.  You drop him 72 points from last years group, that puts him at #3.  Also, since last season, the Rams gave Gurley a 4-year extension.  I don't think they're objective is to run him into the ground.
 
I think Kamara will be more involved in games this year than in years past, but I think it'll be more in the running game at the expense of the passing game.  I don't think 80 and 800 is going to happen again and I also don't think 6.1 yards per rush is sustainable.
 
Seems like we're in agreement on Elliott since neither of us are including him in this topic.  :thumbsup:


#112 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 09:27 AM

Don't worry Future HOF QB Eli Manning will do just fine this year. Not saying he will be the future but Davis Webb has a lot of buzz in the organization


Davis Webb is the reason I thought the Giants taking a qb at 2 was a waste. I think he has some nice potential

#113 jrokh

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 09:33 AM

Davis Webb is the reason I thought the Giants taking a qb at 2 was a waste. I think he has some nice potential

Yeah, He has the Size, He has the Arm, as for the rest TBD, probably won't know for a year or more.



#114 tanatastic

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 10:41 AM

I was absolutely being sarcastic. Because someone was putting down Digg's stats when Diggs was suffering from a groin injury, I figured why not throw another injured player in on the stats talk? It makes zero logical sense for someone to put down a player with 64 catches and almost 900 yards and 8 TDs who had a groin injury and then state he was mostly terrible on the year.
 
Beckham had 4 games and 1 of them he caught 4 for 36 and zero TDs and 1 game 7 for 90 with zero TDs.. And he is considered the best in the NFL?. 2 of 4 games produced a total of 23.6 points in a PPR. That's 50% of his games. That is a first round draft pick here. He may win you 2 games, but then he may lose you 2 games. But that is what most receivers are.  
 
No monster games recorded.
 
And as far as Diggs never having as good a season as Beckham, where are the 169 targets coming from this year for Beckham? Beckham needed 169 targets in 2016 to get his 101 catches (60%). Diggs caught 75% of his targets in 2016 for 84 catches and he showed in his last 5 games played last season, including playoffs, he is getting better. But from what I hear from most people on this site is that the Giants are going to feed Barkley to the point that he is a #3 RB overall or something close to that. Are they going to take targets away from Engram, or a secondary receiver, Shepard or whoever, to give Beckham another 169 targets?
 
And manning is not a good QB. If you think he is, then what round are you targeting him in?

Still? You are still doing this? Still dissecting and scrutinizing a 4 game season in which he came into it a bit gimpy from a preseason injury? Really still doing this? Beckhams average season when he plays at least 12 games is like 1300 12tds, No, I doubt Diggs ever has a season like that. I gave you a chance man, a chance to drop it and redeem some credibility. You still can, reel it back in.

Really still with the Manning what round are you tartgetting him stuff? I even said in my earlier post that Eli would be a popular fill in QB people would pick up to stream. That means not drafted, a free agent pickup. There arent even a lot of QBs I think should be drafted at all, maybe 15 or so.

#115 seafoam1

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 11:17 AM

Still? You are still doing this? Still dissecting and scrutinizing a 4 game season in which he came into it a bit gimpy from a preseason injury? Really still doing this? Beckhams average season when he plays at least 12 games is like 1300 12tds, No, I doubt Diggs ever has a season like that. I gave you a chance man, a chance to drop it and redeem some credibility. You still can, reel it back in.

Really still with the Manning what round are you tartgetting him stuff? I even said in my earlier post that Eli would be a popular fill in QB people would pick up to stream. That means not drafted, a free agent pickup. There arent even a lot of QBs I think should be drafted at all, maybe 15 or so.

Still you are going on about Beckham after last year's crap season? He has a QB that even in fantasy people won't draft him, and an RB that everyone seems to say he will be getting tons of touches. How does Beckham's targets number stay the same?
Inefficient QB, below 60% completion %, coupled with a good WR who needs tons of targets to produce. People are praising Engram and Barkley all over this site. But you still persist in thinking Beckham will get 170 targets and 100 catches.

If both Diggs and Beckham stay healthy this year, they will end up close in their numbers, with beckham getting the better of Diggs maybe in the end by maybe 10 catches and 100 yards. But, there are a few rounds difference in the draft in where they can be had.

You put down Diggs when he was injured, but make excuses for beckham.

#116 tanatastic

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 11:45 AM

Still you are going on about Beckham after last year's crap season? 

Crap season...he played 4 games. Thats a non season. Would have had another monster season almost assuredly. again, oof.

 

 He has a QB that even in fantasy people won't draft him

That same QB has been there for the rest of his years. Me thinks you are a bit confused about Odells stats..Look at his first 3 seasons before last years injury. http://www.nfl.com/p...2543496/profile

 

If both Diggs and Beckham stay healthy this year, they will end up close in their numbers, with beckham getting the better of Diggs maybe in the end by maybe 10 catches and 100 yards. 
 

This is borderline ludicrous to suggest and again, I think you need to check the stats. Odell is on a different level and in a scenario where they both play 16 games its not even remotely close. Lets let Diggs get his first 1k yd season and maybe 9 tds before we start talking about him approaching Odells usual 1300 12 ok? Maybe learn to crawl before we start running marathons eh?

 

You put down Diggs when he was injured, but make excuses for beckham.

I didnt put down Diggs and even said I thought he would have a fine season. You might be mixing me up with someone else, which is fine, honest mistake. 

 

 



#117 LoOnAtIk

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 11:46 AM

OBJ got hurt in preseason and missed week 1. Questionable heading into week 2 and played but didnt start. Leg snapped in week 5.

:(

How about we compare best healthy season to best healthy season?

But why are we even doing this?

#118 seafoam1

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 12:08 PM

We are in the part of the year where we are setting up expectations for fantasy football. There is no petfect science to it. I predicted regression for Beckham because I think he loses targets. He needs a lot of targets to be considered great. A lot. And I predicted a better season for Diggs. No he didn't hit a 1000 yards with his 64 catches because of injury, but he hit nearly 900.

At the cost of where you can get them in the draft, I would rather have a #1 RB and Diggs than Beckham and a tier 2 RB.

And I do think Diggs has the situation where could come close to Beckham. I'm thinking about the coming year, not previous years.

Why the judgement and harsh attacks about opinions on fantasy football? Jeez, Abide!!

#119 tanatastic

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 12:26 PM

We are in the part of the year where we are setting up expectations for fantasy football. There is no petfect science to it. I predicted regression for Beckham because I think he loses targets. He needs a lot of targets to be considered great. And predicted a better season for Diggs. No he didn't hit a 1000 yards with his 64 catches because of injury, but he hit nearly 900.
At the cost of where you can get them in the draft, I would rather have a #1 RB and Diggs than Beckham and a tier 2 RB.
And I do think Diggs has the situation where could come close to Beckham. I'm thinking about the coming year, not previous years.
Why the judgement and harsh attacks about opinions on fantasy football? Jeez, Abide!!

Those are all fair takes and good arguments, that’s more like it.

As for the targets, Odell is the unquestioned top wr there and should get fed as many targets as anyone in the league. I see another monster season for him and an uptick for the offense as a whole. That may not mean wins for the giants, but i think it will be points.

#120 shutdown

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 12:54 PM

We are in the part of the year where we are setting up expectations for fantasy football. There is no petfect science to it. I predicted regression for Beckham because I think he loses targets. He needs a lot of targets to be considered great. A lot. And I predicted a better season for Diggs. No he didn't hit a 1000 yards with his 64 catches because of injury, but he hit nearly 900.

At the cost of where you can get them in the draft, I would rather have a #1 RB and Diggs than Beckham and a tier 2 RB.

And I do think Diggs has the situation where could come close to Beckham. I'm thinking about the coming year, not previous years.

Why the judgement and harsh attacks about opinions on fantasy football? Jeez, Abide!!

This should probably be it's own topic, but it's much easier to pencil in Beckham's stats as well as to project improvement for the giants offense from 2017.  In his three full seasons, Beckham's career lows are 91 catches, 1305 yards, and 10 TD's  That's his floor this year barring injury.  He was on pace to replicate the TD and reception numbers last year, though his YPC did drop off some, but that's a 4 game sample size.  So I do find it hard to predict regression for Beckham when everything seems to the Giants being an improved offense.  Remember Giants now have the vikings OC as a head coach.  So we know the offense supports a high target WR, based on last year's vikings stats.

 

Minnesota, offensively, is in uncharted waters.  The OC was Philly's QB coach last year.  I'm assuming he brings the Reid/Peterson offensive philosophy and one assumes Cousins is an upgrade at QB.  Given that the Philly system is more balanced in distributing targets, (where the previous system seemed to have a preferred WR1), I agree Diggs could benefit from a more even split of the targets with Theilen.  However all that is really unknown at this point and you've got to mesh a new system with a new QB so it's really hard to project numbers for the Vikings receivers and TE's until you see who Cousins likes to throw the ball to and how balanced the system really is.  If you look at the eagles from last year,  it's really hard to find a way that Theilin / Diggs approaches what Beckham will do.  If I split the Theilen/Diggs 2017 pie equally that's about 75 receptions / 1050 yards each.  I think any additional production from a bump in stats for the Vikings passing game will primarily come from the TE spot as Cousins has always utilized TE's and the Reid/Peterson system has as well.  I'm not sure Rudolph is typical TE for that system but given the OC and the QB he could be looking at a 40-50% increase in targets.  Again it's hard to project how the system will fit the talent but there's a case to be made that Rudolph is the most likely to benefit.