****OFFICIAL VOTER DISENFRANCHISEMENT FROM VOTER ID LAWS THREAD****

[crackattack 513]

 

Wow, when everyone assumes you couldn't ever say anything dumber, you go out and set a new bar for Drobeski Stupidity. Way to go!!!!

 

 

 

You can't make this up, 600,000 people don't have ID's in Texas, Drobe questions whether they are illegals then calls Dems racists.

What exactly is a good reason these 600,000 adults can't get an id? They have 2 years to find a way to an BMV before the next presidential election? They have had ample warning about ID laws coming. What are the reason grown men and women can't get one?

 

To me, and just my opinion, Dems are saying these adults are incapable of acquiring an ID. Dems are saying these adults are helpless. Dems are saying these adults are incapable of helping or thinking for themselves. That is sad and unrealistic. Dems are giving them a reason to yell disenfranchised. It's pathetic and pandering to say grown ups can't find a way to get an id.

[HenryHill9323 65]

Well, we didn't get a single example of disenfranchisement on page one.

 

Maybe page two will be kinder to the moon bats who have been fooled by their leaders on this whole disenfranchisement lie.

[drobeski 3,061]

What exactly is a good reason these 600,000 adults can't get an id? They have 2 years to find a way to an BMV before the next presidential election? They have had ample warning about ID laws coming. What are the reason grown men and women can't get one?

 

To me, and just my opinion, Dems are saying these adults are incapable of acquiring an ID. Dems are saying these adults are helpless. Dems are saying these adults are incapable of helping or thinking for themselves. That is sad and unrealistic. Dems are giving them a reason to yell disenfranchised. It's pathetic and pandering to say grown ups can't find a way to get an id.

they avoid these questions like ebola

[Sho Nuff 719]

This is a perfect example of the left saying minorities lack the fundamental skills or IQ or common sense to acquire an ID. It's racist, bigoted, and pandering at it's worst. If I was a minority, I'd be insulted. These grown adults are not helpless and shouldn't be treated as such.

 

They are using the statistic to show who would have to get an ID.

I dont' think they are saying they can't go get one...of course they can...but that does not help move the political needle.

 

Statistics will be used by both sides and don't give a damn about the people.

In this...the stats show that overwhelmingly one group will feel the effects of this. Its why the right wants to push this...because that statistic seems pretty similar to anywhere else I have read.

The large number of people without IDs are from groups typically that would vote democrat(not saying they can't get one because they won't try to quantify that...the right may try to lower the number to make their case).

If it was the other way around...the left would be pushing for the law and the GOP would be fighting it.

[HenryHill9323 65]

They are using the statistic to show who would have to get an ID.

I dont' think they are saying they can't go get one...of course they can...but that does not help move the political needle.

 

Statistics will be used by both sides and don't give a damn about the people.

In this...the stats show that overwhelmingly one group will feel the effects of this. Its why the right wants to push this...because that statistic seems pretty similar to anywhere else I have read.

The large number of people without IDs are from groups typically that would vote democrat(not saying they can't get one because they won't try to quantify that...the right may try to lower the number to make their case).

If it was the other way around...the left would be pushing for the law and the GOP would be fighting it.

I can only speak for myself, but I would be in favor of ID laws no matter who the politicians said were going to get hurt because it's just common fukking sense.

 

But then, I'm not a lefty lemming who parrots every scaremongering lie that comes out of lefty hack politicians mouths. Thus, I don't think minorities are hapless rubes who can't figure out how to get a free ID. Seems there are several here who think just that.

[crackattack 513]

I disagree sho nuff. Acquiring an id is a simple as it gets. It might take an hour or two out of an individual's day. This is a common sense law. People can't quote stats on voter fraud since there's no way of identifying fraud with the current way of voting.

 

Voting should be held to a very high integrity level. People should want the process to be fair and honest. It's a very simple way of achieving this. Proving who one is in order to vote should be and is extremely easy to achieve. Many people have lost their lives to grant this freedom, and it should be respected and given the honor it deserves.

[Sho Nuff 719]

I disagree sho nuff. Acquiring an id is a simple as it gets. It might take an hour or two out of an individual's day. This is a common sense law. People can't quote stats on voter fraud since there's no way of identifying fraud with the current way of voting.

 

Voting should be held to a very high integrity level. People should want the process to be fair and honest. It's a very simple way of achieving this. Proving who one is in order to vote should be and is extremely easy to achieve. Many people have lost their lives to grant this freedom, and it should be respected and given the honor it deserves.

 

You may think it is.

Depends where you live...and where there is a place to get that ID.

 

Again..I am all for voter ID laws. Everyone should have an ID...but the fact is, right now they don't. And that is the stat that will be used.

Just telling you that they don't care about the people or making anyone feel useless. They will use the statistic to show that the higher % of people that would be affected would be black and old so they can make their political point.

 

To claim there is no way to identify fraud currently is incorrect...as stated in other threads, Voter ID laws are not about detecting fraud...but supposed to be about preventing it.

Then again...if someone is going through the trouble of falsifying a registration card to vote...do you think they won't go find a way to get a fake ID? (and do you think the blue hairs running most polling will be able to spot a fake?

[crackattack 513]

Don't know. People might get fake id's, but until we use I'd as a way to vote nobody knows for sure. I am pretty sure (again just my opinion) that it will help make the process fair. I personally do believe we have people voting that shouldn't be. I do believe we have fraud. Look up Indiana voter fraud. It happens, and to me, this us a deterrent. It won't stop all fraud, but it will help imo.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Don't know. People might get fake id's, but until we use I'd as a way to vote nobody knows for sure. I am pretty sure (again just my opinion) that it will help make the process fair. I personally do believe we have people voting that shouldn't be. I do believe we have fraud. Look up Indiana voter fraud. It happens, and to me, this us a deterrent. It won't stop all fraud, but it will help imo.

 

People have to bring something to say who they are in order to vote.

Usually just a voter registration card.

Correct?

 

So...what fraud is happening? People using false registrations? Or places where you don't need your registration card but are just telling them a name?

How are people committing fraud?

Those would be my first questions (as a former auditor and fraud investigator).

 

What checks and balances are used by polling places in each state?

Usually voter registration.

 

So, it would be a proper assumption that to get past them, you would have to falsify a voter registration. I don't think its much of a jump to think that if someone is falsifying that, they they would also attempt to do the same with an ID.

 

Even being for the law...I can see that it won't likely prevent all that much fraud. That and already having a pretty solid opinion that there is not all that much fraud out there either in terms of voters.

[HenryHill9323 65]

Here's one way snuff.

 

 

[crackattack 513]

Like I said...maybe. If it helps to prevent fraud, then great. Will fraud still happen....probably. If it helps prevent or deter.....great. But people who think this makes individuals disenfranchised because they need an ID is incorrect and pandering. Pandering at it's lowest. People are not helpless, nor are they incapable. If they are simply to lazy, then they don't deserve the freedom that's been given them.

[MTSkiBum 1,594]

 

 

On the flip side of the coin, if evil Republican rules are suppressing minority voters, wouldn't minority turnout be declining? But African-American turnout among registered voters has risen for four consecutive presidential election cycles -- black turnout rose under George W. Bush -- while Hispanic registered voter turnout was about the same in 2012 as it was when Bill Clinton ran for the White House. In 2012, African-American turnout reached 66 percent, compared to 55 percent in 1996.

 

 

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/05/08/six-take-aways-from-the-census-bureaus-voting-report

 

 

Found this interesting. More stringent voting laws do not deter minorities from voting.

[Reality 2,710]

 

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/05/08/six-take-aways-from-the-census-bureaus-voting-report

 

 

Found this interesting. More stringent voting laws do not deter minorities from voting.

The left cries wolf, a lot.

[Frank M 181]

 

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/05/08/six-take-aways-from-the-census-bureaus-voting-report

 

 

Found this interesting. More stringent voting laws do not deter minorities from voting.

 

What's interesting? Rising minority turnout is the main reason for Republicans attempting to enact more stringent voting laws.

 

Looks like they're not working as Republicans intended. That's a good thing.

 

Doesn't change the fact that these laws disproportionately target low income minority voters since they are the group most likely to not have a photo ID.

[MTSkiBum 1,594]

 

What's interesting? Rising minority turnout is the main reason for Republicans attempting to enact more stringent voting laws.

 

Looks like they're not working as Republicans intended. That's a good thing.

 

Doesn't change the fact that these laws disproportionately target low income minority voters since they are the group most likely to not have a photo ID.

 

 

Sorry, I disagree.

 

Not having a photo id is pure laziness. The type of person too lazy to get a photo id is also too lazy to vote. This is why enacting these laws has had no effect on minority turn out in elections.

 

Also. I disagree that minority voters are turning out to vote just to shoot down this one law. There are many more reasons for a poor person to vote than being forced to get a photo id.

[Mike Honcho 4,035]

 

What's interesting? Rising minority turnout is the main reason for Republicans attempting to enact more stringent voting laws.

 

Looks like they're not working as Republicans intended. That's a good thing.

 

Doesn't change the fact that these laws disproportionately target low income minority voters since they are the group most likely to not have a photo ID.

 

Voter ID laws in Kansas and Tennessee dropped 2012 turnout by over 100,000 votes

In response to a request from a group of Democratic senators, the nonpartisan Government Accountability Office analyzed the effect of voter ID laws in Kansas and Tennessee on 2012 turnout. Their findings? Turnout dropped at least 1.9 percentage points in Kansas and 2.2 percentage points in Tennessee thanks to the laws. By our calculations, that's 122,000 fewer votes.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, I disagree.

 

Not having a photo id is pure laziness. The type of person too lazy to get a photo id is also too lazy to vote. This is why enacting these laws has had no effect on minority turn out in elections.

 

Also. I disagree that minority voters are turning out to vote just to shoot down this one law. There are many more reasons for a poor person to vote than being forced to get a photo id.

 

Voters Turned Away Because of Texas Photo ID Law

 

Jesus Garcia was born in Texas and lives in Mercedes. He was unable to vote with his driver’s license, which expired about a year ago. He went to the Weslaco Department of Public Safety (DPS) office twice and both times was unable to get an ID. His birth certificate was stolen and he does not have a copy. He wants to get identification, but to get both a replacement birth certificate and a new ID would be more than $30 combined. He is working a lot of hours, but money is tight. With rent, water, electricity, and everything else, Mr. Garcia is not sure he will be able to afford those documents, much less before the election.

Even if he does have the money, he will need to go through the whole process of getting the documents and going to the office again, when he has already tried to vote once and gone to a DPS office twice. Mr. Garcia thinks it is unfair that he cannot vote with the documents he has. He was born here and he has an ID with his picture on it; it’s just expired. He has a voter registration card, and voted in past elections.

 

 

 

Esmeralda Torres is a disabled American who lives in Elsa. She first learned about the new ID law when she tried to vote. She was blocked because she didn’t have acceptable ID. Her disabilities preclude her from driving and make it hard for her to get around. Ms. Torres had previously tried to get an ID but had been rejected because she lived with her sister and had few documents containing both her name and her physical address.

Ms. Torres was eventually able to get a Texas state ID, but only because she has a supportive and strong advocate in her sister, who took time off of work to drive Ms. Torres to a DPS office, and loaned her the $16 necessary to pay for a Texas state ID (she chose to get a Texas state ID rather than an EIC because an EIC cannot be used for any purposes other than voting). Ms. Torres might have qualified for an exemption to the Texas photo ID law for people with disabilities, but no one — not even the poll workers who blocked her from voting the first time — ever told her of this option.

 

[Reality 2,710]

 

 

Sorry, I disagree.

 

Not having a photo id is pure laziness. The type of person too lazy to get a photo id is also too lazy to vote. This is why enacting these laws has had no effect on minority turn out in elections.

 

Also. I disagree that minority voters are turning out to vote just to shoot down this one law. There are many more reasons for a poor person to vote than being forced to get a photo id.

Common sense isn't really a strong suit around here. Good to see some actually possess it.

 

[OldMaid 1,838]

Common sense isn't really a strong suit around here. Good to see some actually possess it.

You'd think if anyone could be understanding of these laws... it'd be the guy who can't be bothered to drive 30 minutes to replace an iPhone battery.

[Reality 2,710]

You'd think if anyone could be understanding of these laws... it'd be the guy who can't be bothered to drive 30 minutes to replace an iPhone battery.

Much farther than 30 minutes but, hopefully Apple would make me show ID when I used my debit card.

[drobeski 3,061]

Much farther than 30 minutes but, hopefully Apple would make me show ID when I used my debit card.

good luck getting one of those, its wicked hard

[MTSkiBum 1,594]

 

Voter ID laws in Kansas and Tennessee dropped 2012 turnout by over 100,000 votes

 

 

 

 

Voters Turned Away Because of Texas Photo ID Law

 

Your first article was terrible statistical analysis. There was a record young person and black person turnout in 2008, of course it is going to regress to the mean.

 

Then if you look at the other numbers, the drop in Hispanics voting was the same as white people.

 

The link i provided used 7 elections worth of data, and it shows that voter id laws had little to no impact on minority voting.

 

 

 

 

 

Then you provided the worst kind of evidence, antidotal evidence. I am sure I can find an article of someone dieing from falling off the can, but that does not mean we should quit using toilets.

[Frank M 181]

 

 

Sorry, I disagree.

 

Not having a photo id is pure laziness. The type of person too lazy to get a photo id is also too lazy to vote. This is why enacting these laws has had no effect on minority turn out in elections.

 

Also. I disagree that minority voters are turning out to vote just to shoot down this one law. There are many more reasons for a poor person to vote than being forced to get a photo id.

 

 

I didn't say that.

[MTSkiBum 1,594]

 

 

I didn't say that.

I am sorry, I misinterpreted your post.

[OldMaid 1,838]

Much farther than 30 minutes but, hopefully Apple would make me show ID when I used my debit card.

Nevermind... My point was much further than 30 minutes.

[Frank M 181]

I am sorry, I misinterpreted your post.

 

It's cool.

 

My point was that rising minority turnout over the last few cycles favors Democrats, which is why Republicans are pushing voter ID laws.

 

Obviously it's not working the way they intended if minority turnout is increasing, but to be fair, your article cited 2012 as the last year numbers were taken. Voter ID has been pushed much harder since then.

[drobeski 3,061]

 

It's cool.

 

My point was that rising minority turnout over the last few cycles favors Democrats, which is why Republicans are pushing voter ID laws.

.

And enabling illigal votes is the only reason democrats are against it.

[Sho Nuff 719]

And enabling illigal votes is the only reason democrats are against it.

 

You are completely incorrect as why people are against it.

But, being wrong is nothing new for you.

[drobeski 3,061]

 

You are completely incorrect as why people are against it.

But, being wrong is nothing new for you.

proof ? I've proven many times fraud exists.

 

You, same ole tired please play with me garbage.

[Sho Nuff 719]

proof ? I've proven many times fraud exists.

 

You, same ole tired please play with me garbage.

 

Well, you haven't actually proven any real fraud exists. Nor a statistically meaningful amount. Nor that voter ID would have fixed that.

But what did that have to do with my post?

 

Even if some fraud exists...which it likely does.

That does not have a thing to do with your false claim that democrats are only against them so they can get illegal votes.

 

You, same old tired make crap up and hope it sticks garbage.

Proving you, once again, are the biggest hack on this site. EVER!!!

[drobeski 3,061]

Nothing, shocking.

 

Is there proof republicans want ID laws, just so they can (fake outrage alert) disenfranchise minority voters ?

Proof ?

[The Moz 69]

Okay RP - now that the GOP has both houses what are they going to do? I really want to know what they are goign to do to make things so much better then the dems have done.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Nothing, shocking.

 

Is there proof republicans want ID laws, just so they can (fake outrage alert) disenfranchise minority voters ?

Proof ?

 

There is proof and statistics showing that ID laws will hit voters that typically vote democrat more than it would republicans.

Which is why they are doing it...if the statistics showed the opposite, Democrats would be pushing the law.

HTH

[drobeski 3,061]

Again nothing

[Sho Nuff 719]

Again nothing

 

You mean you are again posting nothing? Yeah, we all already see that.

 

Are you really wanting to deny what I said about the statitics of it?

[OldMaid 1,838]

Jesus, you two make me want to jab a screwdriver through my temple.

 

Enough already!

[Mike Honcho 4,035]

 

Your first article was terrible statistical analysis. There was a record young person and black person turnout in 2008, of course it is going to regress to the mean.

 

Then if you look at the other numbers, the drop in Hispanics voting was the same as white people.

 

The link i provided used 7 elections worth of data, and it shows that voter id laws had little to no impact on minority voting.

 

 

 

 

 

Then you provided the worst kind of evidence, antidotal evidence. I am sure I can find an article of someone dieing from falling off the can, but that does not mean we should quit using toilets.

 

Congrats on reading the entire 200 page GAO report so quickly. I'm sure the General Accounting Office will be very interested in hearing hearing all the mistakes they made in compiling this data and the conclusions they reached.

 

 

Sorry, I disagree.

 

Not having a photo id is pure laziness. The type of person too lazy to get a photo id is also too lazy to vote.

 

 

Not anecdotal evidence, but real examples of people who weren't lazy, since you said it's "pure laziness".

 

By the way, if you are going to try an disprove someone's argument logically, you probably shouldn't make sweeping over-generalization statements to start things off.

[rholio 339]

And enabling illigal votes is the only reason democrats are against it.

You want to know why the dems are against it? Honestly? Because the repubs are for it. Period. Neither side can help it, if one is for something, anything, then the other is against it.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Jesus, you two make me want to jab a screwdriver through my temple.

 

Enough already!

 

Go ahead...I dare you.

[Cloaca du jour 2,064]

Common sense is a super power evidently

[Reality 2,710]

Common sense is a super power evidently

Definitely in short supply.