Hoyer & Cleveland

[Reality 2,710]

I don't understand what else the Cleveland coaches need to see, this dude is just not good. You have been winning with pure smoke and mirrors.

 

Make the change, it's time.

[TwentyFourSeven 23]

Manziel warming up on the sidelines.

[murf74 461]

Manziel warming up on the sidelines.

Is he drunk?

[Challenger 72]

TD Johnny Football.

[Reality 2,710]

Dude is an absolute weapon.

[phillygrrl08 139]

Is he drunk?

 

Yes, but he was seen with a rolled up bill so he is good to go now.

[TwentyFourSeven 23]

Rushing TD

[GS3K 12]

Who's got the balls to roll with Manziel R.O.S.?

[Wussfacekiller 9]

I'm out of the playoffs. I'll do it

[murf74 461]

Who's got the balls to roll with Manziel R.O.S.?

Depends on matchup but remember there is no gameplan to spy his running. A full week of prep for Johnny would be interesting to see

[JT 137]

One nice pocket throw, a couple backyard scrambles that turned into plays, and a TD run vs a defense playing out the clock. Also a horrific play at his own goal line.

 

The losses by Balt and Pitt pretty much assure he'll be back on the bench next Sunday. Hoyt gives them the best chance to win until proven otherwise, and they're still very much in the playoff hunt.

[Reality 2,710]

One nice pocket throw, a couple backyard scrambles that turned into plays, and a TD run vs a defense playing out the clock. Also a horrific play at his own goal line.

 

The losses by Balt and Pitt pretty much assure he'll be back on the bench next Sunday. Hoyt gives them the best chance to win until proven otherwise, and they're still very much in the playoff hunt.

Please tell me you aren't seriously making judgements about Manziel after he had to come in and try to cleanup Hoyer's disastrous mess.

 

Hoyer isn't getting it done, it has been pure smoke and mirrors, the coaches finally had enough today.

[tigeru 65]

Gads I thought Gordon would make these guys good. I'll have to reconsider my wr strategy.

[murf74 461]

Gads I thought Gordon would make these guys good. I'll have to reconsider my wr strategy.

WRs don't usually make a qb good except on jump balls

[TennisMenace 156]

I am not a Hoyer fan but I too do not think the coach puts a rookie QB in at this late stage.

[murf74 461]

I am not a Hoyer fan but I too do not think the coach puts a rookie QB in at this late stage.

They are a game and half out of first? No way they make that change.

[TheUsualSuspect 207]

I suspect he'll be on the cheap next week on Fan Duel.

[tigeru 65]

I mean make the Browns good. Still I'm floating Marshall out there and Roddy benched. I mat have to move Denard from rb to wr but wait Rashads gone to crap damn excuses.

[SaintsInDome2006 128]

I don't understand what else the Cleveland coaches need to see, this dude is just not good. You have been winning with pure smoke and mirrors.

 

Make the change, it's time.

 

Key word here, "winning."

 

The Browns are in the playoff race. Browns. Playoffs. Say those two words together. The reason they are is Hoyer.

 

The Bills are a good team, playing at home, with an excellent defense, also striving for the playoffs, their first game back in Rich since the snowstorm disaster, which was emotional and they had momentum from Detroit.

 

I think Cleveland is overreacting if they start Manziel. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe he has studied and practiced enough since the preseason to have improved, but this is not the point to be training a rookie QB.

[roroco 75]

I'm not sure Manziel is a savior like a lot of you. I just don't think he has a pro-level skill set. He is a hell of a marketable guy. So, the team wants him on the field to sell seats and jerseys, but I don't see him as any different from the latest slew of flop run-first QBs. Hoyer isn't great, but he has been winning games. Seems like a drastic move to put Manziel in right now.

[The Hood 9]

Hoyer has 1 TD and 6 ints in last 4 games. He has been playing terrible. Looks like a great #2 QB to have on your team but is not a starting QB. Browns are not making playoffs with that. Time to see what Manziel can do and let him learn on the field.

[JT 137]

Please tell me you aren't seriously making judgements about Manziel after he had to come in and try to cleanup Hoyer's disastrous mess.

 

Hoyer isn't getting it done, it has been pure smoke and mirrors, the coaches finally had enough today.

 

I know how much you love him, but unclench your legs a bit. Watched every snap of the game and gave a fair assessment of his time on the field. A nice pocket throw; some scramble plays that panned out ok; a rushing TD in a blowout where they certainly were a bit surprised by his speed. Along with an absolutely horrible decision in his own end.

 

I didn't make any judgment. I said they won't make the move while still in the playoff hunt. Hoyer, who has been dismal for 5 weeks vs a what should have been a soft schedule, has still won games. Manziel has not. I don't doubt he's given every chance to win the job next year, or that he gets to play if/when they're eliminated. But I don't believe they'll announce him as the starter now.

 

So everything is ok. Go back to dreaming that you were the lucky guy that got close enough to hug him, beating be damned.

[Reality 2,710]

 

I know how much you love him, but unclench your legs a bit. Watched every snap of the game and gave a fair assessment of his time on the field. A nice pocket throw; some scramble plays that panned out ok; a rushing TD in a blowout where they certainly were a bit surprised by his speed. Along with an absolutely horrible decision in his own end.

 

I didn't make any judgment. I said they won't make the move while still in the playoff hunt. Hoyer, who has been dismal for 5 weeks vs a what should have been a soft schedule, has still won games. Manziel has not. I don't doubt he's given every chance to win the job next year, or that he gets to play if/when they're eliminated. But I don't believe they'll announce him as the starter now.

 

So everything is ok. Go back to dreaming that you were the lucky guy that got close enough to hug him, beating be damned.

You've gone from an arrogant condensing a$$hole to just plain weird, so congratz on that. I realize it's kind of your thing to talk down to everybody but, honestly, get over yourself. Despite what you tell yourself, your opinion isn't the only one that matters.

 

Anyway, moving on to grown up talk...

 

Manziel's TD made it a 10 point game with about 9 minutes to go, so that's just dumb analysis on your end. Hoyer simply hasn't played well enough, if Manziel was sitting behind 15 or 20 other guys in the league who were better than him he should stay on the bench. He's not, he's sitting behind a guy who isn't getting it done. Let's see what the rookie can do. Plenty of other teams have made that kind of move.

[SaintsInDome2006 128]

Anyone want to discuss the play where Manziel gave up a fumble-6 that the Browns were pretty luck to have overturned?

 

Ludicrously bad call.

 

http://www.diehardsport.com/nfl/johnny-manziel-botches-snap-fumbles-bills-recover-td/

[JT 137]

You've gone from an arrogant condensing a$$hole to just plain weird, so congratz on that. I realize it's kind of your thing to talk down to everybody but, honestly, get over yourself. Despite what you tell yourself, your opinion isn't the only one that matters.

 

Anyway, moving on to grown up talk...

 

Manziel's TD made it a 10 point game with about 9 minutes to go, so that's just dumb analysis on your end. Hoyer simply hasn't played well enough, if Manziel was sitting behind 15 or 20 other guys in the league who were better than him he should stay on the bench. He's not, he's sitting behind a guy who isn't getting it done. Let's see what the rookie can do. Plenty of other teams have made that kind of move.

 

You talking about talking down to people? Rich. I've never seen you treat any opinion other than your own with anything but disdain.

 

My "analysis" of his play is a fair representation if you can take partisanship out of it. You know, "grown up talk" instead of homer goggles.Watch the film, or better yet have someone without a dog in the fight do so, and see if it's not reasonable. As for a 10 point game? Truly an example of a game not being as close as the score. There was no real feel that they could keep Buffalo from running clock, or that they could mount 2 more scoring drives.

 

The rest of "my analysis" is what I believe the Browns will do. NFL teams in the playoff hunt rarely make a QB switch to a rookie, regardless how badly the starter may have played. Their rationale tends to be that wins are wins, and that guy has won enough to put us in this position.

 

Please relax.

[SaintsInDome2006 128]

One nice pocket throw, a couple backyard scrambles that turned into plays, and a TD run vs a defense playing out the clock. Also a horrific play at his own goal line.

 

The losses by Balt and Pitt pretty much assure he'll be back on the bench next Sunday. Hoyt gives them the best chance to win until proven otherwise, and they're still very much in the playoff hunt.

 

Unveiling Manziel versus Indy doesn't seem like the best of ideas, even if at home. Pit and Bal lost, Cincy backed into a win while looking awful against a bad team.

 

Indy's D has often been terrible, look at McCoy 392, 2 Tds yesterday, what Ben did, etc., they have given up some big games, but they are also capable of being very good. Indy's offense meanwhile can push a game beyond reach. They need a game manager for this one, and just see if Hoyer can cut out the mistakes. Hoyer has been missing barns when throwing but earlier in the season until just a couple games ago Cleveland was actually surrendering the fewest FF points allowed to opposing defenses. Less than Denver or NE, Cleveland was the best. That doesn't count in the NFL but shows what a good job Hoyer was doing managing games and minimizing turnovers. In a weird way I think Gordon has led him to be more pass happy and determined to release the ball into/despite coverage.

[JT 137]

Per multiple sources, Hoyer named as starter for Sunday.

 

It's the only move to make. If Hoyer flops again, in all likelihood the Browns will be out or nearly out of the playoff hunt. That will still allow a couple games for them to look at Manziel.

 

If he keeps winning, the competition is on (maybe) next training camp. That is, if Hoyer remains on the team.

[tplbge 2]

Per multiple sources, Hoyer named as starter for Sunday.

 

It's the only move to make. If Hoyer flops again, in all likelihood the Browns will be out or nearly out of the playoff hunt. That will still allow a couple games for them to look at Manziel.

 

If he keeps winning, the competition is on (maybe) next training camp. That is, if Hoyer remains on the team.

Anybody think this is coachspeak? Enter Manziel on the 2nd series would provide quite the wtf for the defense.

[IMMensaMind 459]

Nah. Keeping Hoyer in there is the right thing to do; I agree with JT (and @ reality calling anyone condescending).

 

Oddly, this move could coax out of Hoyer what a benching did out of Fitz, though not nearly as much O explosion.

[Reality 2,710]

Probably the right call considering where they are in the standings. This is the safe call for the coaching staff.

 

Bottom line though, Hoyer has been terrible of late and the leash will be extremely short. Tough conditions for any player to thrive in. 56% completion with 11 TD & 10 INT is among the leagues worse. Maybe this lights a fire under Hoyer and he plays better but, as a career journeyman backup, the numbers once again prove that's exactly what he is.

[Frank M 181]

My Browns are an 8-8 team at best. In fact, the best division in football (in terms of record) is only that way because of feasting on the NFC South. Any of them are one and done in the playoffs.

 

I want to see Johnny because I'm sick of bad offensive football. At least he's exciting to watch. Would he win games? Hard to say. He'll be playing next year, Hoyer will be somewhere else as a backup.

 

Hoyer has not been a good QB this year. The wins masked his deficiencies a bit, but the fact of the matter is that when Alex Mack went down and they were unable to run the ball, the run pass ratio skewed way more to pass and exposed him for what he is: a game manager who cannot win games on his own. To be a successful game manager, you have to have a good running game and a great defense. The Browns have neither at the moment.

 

People forget that this is the first year of a new system on offense and defense, a new QB, rookie RBs, and a rookie HC. Plus they've had a sh1t-ton of injuries. They'll be better next year.

[Reality 2,710]

My Browns are an 8-8 team at best. In fact, the best division in football (in terms of record) is only that way because of feasting on the NFC South. Any of them are one and done in the playoffs.

 

I want to see Johnny because I'm sick of bad offensive football. At least he's exciting to watch. Would he win games? Hard to say. He'll be playing next year, Hoyer will be somewhere else as a backup.

 

Hoyer has not been a good QB this year. The wins masked his deficiencies a bit, but the fact of the matter is that when Alex Mack went down and they were unable to run the ball, the run pass ratio skewed way more to pass and exposed him for what he is: a game manager who cannot win games on his own. To be a successful game manager, you have to have a good running game and a great defense. The Browns have neither at the moment.

 

People forget that this is the first year of a new system on offense and defense, a new QB, rookie RBs, and a rookie HC. Plus they've had a sh1t-ton of injuries. They'll be better next year.

Nailed it on Hoyer. Arrows are pointing up for your squad overall though.

[JT 137]

My Browns are an 8-8 team at best. In fact, the best division in football (in terms of record) is only that way because of feasting on the NFC South. Any of them are one and done in the playoffs.

 

I want to see Johnny because I'm sick of bad offensive football. At least he's exciting to watch. Would he win games? Hard to say. He'll be playing next year, Hoyer will be somewhere else as a backup.

 

Hoyer has not been a good QB this year. The wins masked his deficiencies a bit, but the fact of the matter is that when Alex Mack went down and they were unable to run the ball, the run pass ratio skewed way more to pass and exposed him for what he is: a game manager who cannot win games on his own. To be a successful game manager, you have to have a good running game and a great defense. The Browns have neither at the moment.

 

People forget that this is the first year of a new system on offense and defense, a new QB, rookie RBs, and a rookie HC. Plus they've had a sh1t-ton of injuries. They'll be better next year.

 

I've watched the Browns closely this year, and you're right. The injury to Mack changed everything. I have to commend the staff and players for somehow still sticking with their plan through most of the season and managing to keep themselves relevant.

 

I'm not a Manziel fan and don't like his prospects, but they drafted him and obviously want to get a look at some point. But as long as they stay in the race, he'll be the backup. Maybe they'll expand his role a bit, but like the old saying goes: If you've got 2 QB, you've got no QB.

 

If they continue to slide, I figure he finishes out the year. If not, he's got an open competition to win it next year with Hoyer or whoever else is there.

[joelmrut 4]

What I find interesting is that 5 of Hoyer 10 interceptions have come with Gordon back. Can't be a coincidence. Forcing it to much to a receiver who doesn't have his head in the game.

Cleveland knew Brian was a game manager. The offense is build around running to setup the pass. And they haven’t been running well for weeks.

[JT 137]

What I find interesting is that 5 of Hoyer 10 interceptions have come with Gordon back. Can't be a coincidence. Forcing it to much to a receiver who doesn't have his head in the game.

Cleveland knew Brian was a game manager. The offense is build around running to setup the pass. And they haven’t been running well for weeks.

 

Two of those are directly on Gordon. In the ATL game he quit on a ball in the endzone which resulted in the INT that SHOULD have cost them the game. Last week Gordon misread 2-deep coverage and ran right into it. Hoyer threw the ball where he should have broken the pattern. Commentator was correct in that it was a read that a high schooler would get chewed out for missing.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

Please tell me you aren't seriously making judgements about Manziel after he had to come in and try to cleanup Hoyer's disastrous mess.

 

Hoyer isn't getting it done, it has been pure smoke and mirrors, the coaches finally had enough today.

 

Have you thought for ONE SECOND why they aren't making the switch.

MANZIEL JUST ISN'T VERY GOOD. It's the ONLY POSSIBLE reason here. He doesn't know the playbook. Can't even pronounce some of the god damn plays and it's December already. In any other situation and as poorly as Hoyer have played over the past 4 weeks, if Cleveland have a 'competent' QB at hand they would make the switch.

 

Cleveland have pretty much acknowledge they focked up on that pick.

[IMMensaMind 459]

Have you thought for ONE SECOND why they aren't making the switch.

MANZIEL JUST ISN'T VERY GOOD. It's the ONLY POSSIBLE reason here. He doesn't know the playbook. Can't even pronounce some of the god damn plays and it's December already. In any other situation and as poorly as Hoyer have played over the past 4 weeks, if Cleveland have a 'competent' QB at hand they would make the switch.

 

Cleveland have pretty much acknowledge they focked up on that pick.

 

I agree. I think everything I see about Manziel screams bust to me. He's a wigger's Ryan Leaf.

[Reality 2,710]

Abysmal. That's all I got. Hoyer just isn't a starter in this league.

[kilroy69 994]

Manziel starts the rest of the year

[Cruzer 1,992]

I never really sat and watched Hoyer for an entire game. After watching y-day against the Colts, all I can say is, "OMG - Hoyer is focking terrible!"

 

Seriously - how does he still have a job? He has some of the worst mechanics I've ever seen - who throws off of their back foot over and over again? He also can't hit wide open wrs running down the field to save his life. God bless Browns fans - I'd be screaming for his head today.