Anyone Here Been To Marriage Counseling?

[Jeremy 0]

How did he run away? He went to the session with her yesterday. Hashing what was just said 2 minutes after is not always the best thing to do. He needed time to think and clear his head, and she probably should as well before they get into it again-- imo.

 

Him going to clear his head at the gym was probably a good idea. But after having done that, I think he missed an opportunity for further discussion. I've never been to marriage counciling, but I've done family therapy when I was a kid. Some of our best discussions were right after the sessions when we can reflect on what was said.

 

At any rate, it sounds like he's going back again next week, so props for hanging with it.

[Brown Eyed Girl 1]

There was alot said in our session...I wanted to be able to clear my head and get my thoughts together w/out bringing everything that came up in our session home to argue about until next week's session.

 

Plus, I just needed to blow off some steam...hence getting away to the gym.

 

That sounds fair enough, but maybe you should have just said as much to her.

 

It's the short, vague answers that couples say to one another that sometimes sets the other one off. You can't expect her to read your mind.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

There was alot said in our session...I wanted to be able to clear my head and get my thoughts together w/out bringing everything that came up in our session home to argue about until next week's session.

 

If we were any good at resolving our differences by ourselves we wouldn't need to be going to couseling.

 

Plus, I just needed to blow off some steam...hence getting away to the gym.

 

Then you should have invited her. I don't know crap about women, but I do know that the last thing I wish to do is generally the best for my relationship. Thus I bite the bullet and am amazed at the results. I can honestly say that you sound like you are at the same place I have been. I decided one of 3 things had to happen.

 

1. I divorce because I hate my wife. (I never hated her so this was out.)

2. I divorce because I simply don't want to be married to anyone. (Closer)

3. I try a heck of alot harder even though she was a royal pain in my ass and I thought most of the problems were with her. (I chose C and I don't regret it...today at least.)

[davebg 0]

Then you should have invited her. I don't know crap about women, but I do know that the last thing I wish to do is generally the best for my relationship. Thus I bite the bullet and am amazed at the results. I can honestly say that you sound like you are at the same place I have been. I decided one of 3 things had to happen.

 

1. I divorce because I hate my wife. (I never hated her so this was out.)

2. I divorce because I simply don't want to be married to anyone. (Closer)

3. I try a heck of alot harder even though she was a royal pain in my ass and I thought most of the problems were with her. (I chose C and I don't regret it...today at least.)

No offense, but that makes your sound like you've got a mangina.

 

I mean, how is bowing to her every whim, even if it's the last thing you want to do, a recipe for happiness?

 

I'd be bitter, resentfull and all around miserable.

 

Actually, you kind of sound like where I was a few months back...when we had these same problems, but I/we glossed over them in hopes of keeping the peace. That only works for so long. I can't keep that up any more...it's time to resolve our issues or go our separate ways.

[jerryskids 6,641]

How did he run away? He went to the session with her yesterday. Hashing what was just said 2 minutes after is not always the best thing to do. He needed time to think and clear his head, and she probably should as well before they get into it again-- imo.

There is nothing wrong with going to the gym to clear his head. The question is if he should have offered to discuss it after said head clearing. Which clearly he didn't, nor did he want to.

[davebg 0]

There is nothing wrong with going to the gym to clear his head. The question is if he should have offered to discuss it after said head clearing. Which clearly he didn't, nor did he want to.

I worked all day...got home...scarfed down some pizza and went to counseling @7:45PM. I got to the gym around 9:00PM...didn't get home and showered until almost 10:30PM.

 

I was physically and mentally exhausted...the last thing I wanted to do was get back into 'fight mode'.

[LaVidaCurly 0]

I am sure you were happy that your wife made 100K+ when you bought your house.

 

She is probably as unhappy as you are. She probably has never even had an orgasm in the 13 years you have been together. She just needs some guy to make her go "hmmm...so that's what it's all about!"

 

Bottom line, if she is making 100k+ you get a focking maid/cook/nanny that is what people do when there are two careers going on. And as far as splitting up the chores she does what she's been doing. The folding, bringing home the bacon etc.

 

You can't have it all. What women is going to make 100K and cook your focking dinner. You get to choose one and one only. And if you get anything extra you should kiss her feet!

 

Seriously, it sounds like you are not man enough for her.

[jerryskids 6,641]

I worked all day...got home...scarfed down some pizza and went to counseling @7:45PM. I got to the gym around 9:00PM...didn't get home and showered until almost 10:30PM.

 

I was physically and mentally exhausted...the last thing I wanted to do was get back into 'fight mode'.

Dood, I am so with you, and the last thing I would have wanted to do in your situation is to rehash it.

 

So offer to talk about it tomorrow after more head clearing.

 

What you don't seem to see is your attitude. Your wife wanted to talk more about it. You told her "go pound sand, I'm not talking to you again about it until the next time we have to go." The implication IMO is, as others speculated earlier, you are just going through the motions.

[Franknbeans 46]

I worked all day...got home...scarfed down some pizza and went to counseling @7:45PM. I got to the gym around 9:00PM...didn't get home and showered until almost 10:30PM.

 

I was physically and mentally exhausted...the last thing I wanted to do was get back into 'fight mode'.

maybe you should try discuss and listen mode instead... far less taxing

[TimmySmith 2,782]

No offense, but that makes your sound like you've got a mangina.

 

I mean, how is bowing to her every whim, even if it's the last thing you want to do, a recipe for happiness?

 

I'd be bitter, resentfull and all around miserable.

 

Actually, you kind of sound like where I was a few months back...when we had these same problems, but I/we glossed over them in hopes of keeping the peace. That only works for so long. I can't keep that up any more...it's time to resolve our issues or go our separate ways.

 

Mangina...perhaps as you see it. I certainly do not cater to every whim, nor do I gloss over the issue. From the stuff I have seen at this site, you seem to be a man of extremes. Good luck.

[TheNewGirl 1,404]

I worked all day...got home...scarfed down some pizza and went to counseling @7:45PM. I got to the gym around 9:00PM...didn't get home and showered until almost 10:30PM.

 

I was physically and mentally exhausted...the last thing I wanted to do was get back into 'fight mode'.

 

Would she have been okay with that answer if you told her that? 'I have had a long and very exhausting day...I promise that we can talk about this tomorrow. I think that we both need sometime to clear our heads and kind of think about the session beofre rehashing it all over again?"

 

Do you normally invite her to the gym with you? She might be a bit more on the defensive/passive side since couseling has begun. I am glad to hear that you went, and that you're are willing to go again. You're right that things won't get solved the first week, too. ITA with BrownEyedGirl's suggestion that sometimes the vague answers are not so good.

 

I also think that "bowing to her every whim" isn't what one of the PP's was trying to say. I think that instead of just giving up, saying NO all the time, or whatever, and actually TRYING, maybe doing something that you really don't want to do can help things. We all need to compromise and put our needs second sometimes, and I think that he's saying when he made a conscious effort to do that, he noticed a change for the better. (Then again, I could be wrong and he didn't mean any of that at all).

 

ETA: I also agree with some of the PP's that you seem to have a very bad attitude about this. You did kind of blow her off, and some of your posts towards and about her just don't have a good "feeling" to them. I also have to kinda agree with LaVidaCurly...I mean, you CAN make 100K a year AND be able to handle the household chores, but if she's the one who is bringing home the bacon, wants a housekeeper, and may not have dinner on the table for you every night...then that's okay. Hell, right now I am a Stay At Home Mom and my husband STILL doesn't get dinner every night, and he STILL has to help out with the laundry.

 

I am still kind of wondering - did you know that she was like this before you married her? Did you guys live together at all or discuss household chores/items before you got married, or did you both kind of figure that things would work themselves out?

[davebg 0]

Would she have been okay with that answer if you told her that? 'I have had a long and very exhausting day...I promise that we can talk about this tomorrow. I think that we both need sometime to clear our heads and kind of think about the session beofre rehashing it all over again?"

 

Do you normally invite her to the gym with you? She might be a bit more on the defensive/passive side since couseling has begun. I am glad to hear that you went, and that you're are willing to go again. You're right that things won't get solved the first week, too. ITA with BrownEyedGirl's suggestion that sometimes the vague answers are not so good.

I don't think I'm divulging any secrets when I say we haven't been communicating well with one another.

 

ETA: I also agree with some of the PP's that you seem to have a very bad attitude about this. You did kind of blow her off, and some of your posts towards and about her just don't have a good "feeling" to them. I also have to kinda agree with LaVidaCurly...I mean, you CAN make 100K a year AND be able to handle the household chores, but if she's the one who is bringing home the bacon, wants a housekeeper, and may not have dinner on the table for you every night...then that's okay. Hell, right now I am a Stay At Home Mom and my husband STILL doesn't get dinner every night, and he STILL has to help out with the laundry.

We both bring home the bacon...she makes more than me, but we both pull down six figs...so I expect that we share these duties equally.

 

I am still kind of wondering - did you know that she was like this before you married her? Did you guys live together at all or discuss household chores/items before you got married, or did you both kind of figure that things would work themselves out?

I think b/c we started dating so early on we kind of thought that these things would work themselves out. As I mentioned in an earlier post...many of these things were not on my radar when we were first dating or living together in our early - mid 20's.

[Rusty Syringes 478]

The only true way out of this mess is domestic violence, plain and simple.

[TheNewGirl 1,404]

I don't think I'm divulging any secrets when I say we haven't been communicating well with one another.

 

I know this...I mean the vague replies to your wife...maybe being more specific to her...or just clarifying things..."I am going to the gym to clear my head, I just want to be alone, I have had a busy day.."

 

Perhaps I misunderstood what BEG meant in her post.

 

We both bring home the bacon...she makes more than me, but we both pull down six figs...so I expect that we share these duties equally.

 

It doesn't always happen "equally." There will probably always be things that you do more/less, and things that she does more/less.

 

I think b/c we started dating so early on we kind of thought that these things would work themselves out. As I mentioned in an earlier post...many of these things were not on my radar when we were first dating or living together in our early - mid 20's.

 

Ah, that's right. I forgot that you'd all ready clarified this.

[Brown Eyed Girl 1]

I know this...I mean the vague replies to your wife...maybe being more specific to her...or just clarifying things..."I am going to the gym to clear my head, I just want to be alone, I have had a busy day.."

 

Perhaps I misunderstood what BEG meant in her post.

 

No, I think you are on the same page as me, NewGirl.

 

Dave, what I meant was I think it's fair and perfectly natural for you to just want to be alone and sort everything out in your head after a session. I know that they can be trying and very emotional sometimes and there is usually a lot to digest afterwards. Sometimes it's not good to jump right in to discussing things further with your SO. With that being said, I think your shortness and vagueness with her in your answers when she wanted to discuss things further... sent the wrong message to her. NewGirl is right. What would have been wrong with just saying something like: "I really need to sort things out in my head right now and be alone with my thoughts. Why don't we try to talk about this tomorrow instead when our heads are more clear?" Or whatever. Instead, you really brushed her off and of course put her on the defense.

 

Also, I think some here may need to realize that this was their very first counseling session together and they still haven't learned to communicate with each other while they are angry. Them discussing the issues further right after their meeting and without the mediator there would most likely have escalated into yet another arguement.

[jerryskids 6,641]

No, I think you are on the same page as me, NewGirl.

 

Dave, what I meant was I think it's fair and perfectly natural for you to just want to be alone and sort everything out in your head after a session. I know that they can be trying and very emotional sometimes and there is usually a lot to digest afterwards. Sometimes it's not good to jump right in to discussing things further with your SO. With that being said, I think your shortness and vagueness with her in your answers when she wanted to discuss things further... sent the wrong message to her. NewGirl is right. What would have been wrong with just saying something like: "I really need to sort things out in my head right now and be alone with my thoughts. Why don't we try to talk about this tomorrow instead when our heads are more clear?" Or whatever. Instead, you really brushed her off and of course put her on the defense.

 

Also, I think some here may need to realize that this was their very first counseling session together and they still haven't learned to communicate with each other while they are angry. Them discussing the issues further right after their meeting and without the mediator there would most likely have escalated into yet another arguement.

Actually, I said this first, TNG just agreed. I'm in touch with my feminine side and all.

[Brown Eyed Girl 1]

Actually, I said this first, TNG just agreed. I'm in touch with my feminine side and all.

 

Well, in that case... my apologies. I agree with you and NewGirl.

[midacamp 0]

Hello. I registered here, and I don't think I've ever posted, let alone read this forum. But I just so happened to saunter through here and this thread really caught my attention.

 

First, I am not a counsellor.

 

Second, I am happily married, but only for a couple of years.

 

Third, I agree with others (and probably yourself) that you have *major* communication problems. I also think you have expectation problems.

 

I think after the session pretty much summed things up.

 

Mrs. DaveBG: What are you thinking?

 

DaveBG: I'm thinking I'm going to the gym to clear my head as soon as we get home.

 

Mrs. DaveBG: Why didn't you invite me to go w/you?

 

Translation:

 

Mrs. DaveBG (or, what she is saying): Talk with me. Don't run away and shut down like you usually do. What are you thinking about the whole counseller thing?

 

DaveBG (or, what she hears): I don't want to talk with you. I'm just going through the motions to save face and get away from you.

 

Mrs. DaveBG: I just want to spend time with you.

 

Come back from the gym.

 

Mrs. DaveBG: I want to rehash everything.

 

DaveBG: Didn't we just discuss this crap for over an hour...w/ a professional who we pay mucho $$$ to? Nothing is going to get resolved in one week.

 

Mrs. DaveBG: Don't book that trip you were planning to give me for my birfday next week b/c who knows if we'll still be married by the summer.

 

Translation:

 

Mrs. DaveBG: I still want to talk about everything.

 

DaveBG: An hour of talking with you is more than enough.

 

Mrs. DaveBG: I'm losing hope that this will ever work out, though I want it to.

 

DaveBG: Lack of response says, "yup, you're right!"

 

Multi-task? At least your wife can cook!

 

A couple of weeks ago Mrs. DaveBG was making toast in the toaster oven. The stoopid beeotch left a box of chocolate covered donuts on top of the toaster oven!

 

Which leads to yet another one of my complaints...namely, how an intelligent woman who makes well over >$100k being an educational consultant...who gets up and speaks infront of crowds of 800 - 1000 strangers...who makes sure she crosses her T's and dots her I's when it comes to work...can be such a focking retard when it comes to everyday life.

 

If you think the toast thing is funny, you ain't heard nuthin' yet.

 

Like when I sent her to the market for hot Italian sausage to cook on the grill. She came back w/a dried Boar's Head spicy sausage. I was like WTF is this? It's a giant Slim Jim! Does this look like something you'd want to eat for dinner?

 

Or our arrangement doing laundry. I do the laundry b/c she still doesn't get the concepts of separating or different water temps. So, she folds. Except, she folds my shirts and they are a mess...no matter how many times I try to teach her. I mean, I walk into the Gap and see the chro-mags that they have working there and they can all figure it out. I thought all you needed to learn was a SSN and an opposable thumb. Apparently I was wrong.

 

I don't think I'm asking for much, but she is no help around the house. I cook, we have a cleaning lady, I do laundry, I do all the "man" stuff. Hell, I bust my hump planting all this crap out on the patio for her every spring and I can't even get her to water the sh|t.

 

I cannot believe someone so intelligent could be so stoopid...I am left w/no other alternative but to think that she just doens't care enough to pay any attention.

 

This is an expectation thing. You expect her to work and split the chores at home. She may have different expectations. Perhaps she expects to work and have you do 75% of the chores. Is this fair? Well, it might be. Perhaps she is not capable of working AND coming home to more work. Perhaps you are emotionally stronger and able to work then come home to more work. Perhaps she has a more emotionally draining job that you. I don't know. Does this make her less of a person? I say no. But I do say that you need to talk about what each of you expects in this marriage. But that will come later after you learn how to communicate in the first place.

 

Her latest has been to start the waterworks about 15-20 min after I go to bed...just as I'm getting my sleep on.

 

Then proceding to put words in my mouf like "You hate me", "You don't love me anymore", "You want a divorce."

 

My reply is usually along the lines of..."I'm not playing this focking game...I'm sleeping. But if you keep telling me how I feel when I don't even know how I feel, I can guarantee you one thing...eventually you WILL be right. Now STFU or hit the couch."

 

Translation:

 

Mrs. DaveBG: Just what I expected. Another day, he's fallen asleep no problem with nothing bothering him, when our marriage is collapsing in on itself. And he doesn't even want to try to fix anything. He hates me and wants out, and I don't want that to happen. It hurts too much (cue crying).

 

Mr. DaveBG: Yup, not only do I hate you, I hate you *really* badly.

 

No offense, but that makes your sound like you've got a mangina.

 

I mean, how is bowing to her every whim, even if it's the last thing you want to do, a recipe for happiness?

 

I'd be bitter, resentfull and all around miserable.

 

Actually, you kind of sound like where I was a few months back...when we had these same problems, but I/we glossed over them in hopes of keeping the peace. That only works for so long. I can't keep that up any more...it's time to resolve our issues or go our separate ways.

 

You know what I say about this? I say the one with the mangina is the one who cowers in the face of a challenge. The one who runs away from fighting for his wife. The one who throws in the towel when the going gets tough. Yes, you're miserable. You keep bringing up "bowing to her every whim". You are, quite frankly, very selfish, and can't see how stepping out and swallowing your pride and doing what I believe she is so clearly telling you in your (brief) conversations listed here can actually improve the situation. I say man up and fight FOR her, and lose the "mangina" by cowering behind "she's an idiot" or "her parents are lunatics" or "she's a lunatic" or "I'm the sane one here" or "I am trying".

 

I know this is pretty tough on you, DaveBG, and I've painted her in a good light here, but you CANNOT change her behavior. You CAN change your own. If you can't see where YOUR fault lies in this matter (and there will be some), then it is over. My advice is to decide you want to fight for her, to trust that she will come around and follow your lead, and change your behavior above and beyond what is required of you. As someone else said, give 150% and expect 50%. In your case, I would expect back 0%.

 

It won't be easy. You are in for a tough fight. But if you are willing, and you get back up on that horse every time she throws you off it, you can and will overcome this.

 

The first step, I think, is to work on your own communication. Don't say "I'm going to the gym" because she hears "I don't want to talk about this". Instead say, "I'm going to the gym, because I need some time to think over what went on today. I think we covered some good ground, and I think it would benefit us both if we had some time to ourselves to think things through, and come back together later to go over everything". Of course, then you MUST follow up on coming back later to discuss everything. Even if it means you go to bed late. Right now it seems your priority is on your sleep, and not your relationship. What message does that send to her?

 

Am that I far off here? Ladies: on my interpretation of what she is saying? Guys: am I being too rough on him?

[jerryskids 6,641]

blah blah blah

 

God, I want to rip off your boxer briefs and do you right now.

 

That being said, a little advice. That is way too many words for this bored. I'll propose a summary of your post:

 

"DaveBG, you are a selfish egomaniacal focktard."

 

That being said, there are probably curlies orgasming over your response, so what do I know?

[Brown Eyed Girl 1]

Am that I far off here? Ladies: on my interpretation of what she is saying? Guys: am I being too rough on him?

 

You must be a woman? No?

[jerryskids 6,641]

You must be a woman? No?

QED on my last post.

[CurlyNight 0]

Holy crap. So this is what it took for him/her to post for the first time since Aug of 04. Thanks for the cliff notes JK. I simply can't read his/her post.

 

And I hope it's a her for your sake. lol.

[Fervid Ro 0]

You know what I say about this? I say the one with the mangina is the one who cowers in the face of a challenge. The one who runs away from fighting for his wife. The one who throws in the towel when the going gets tough. Yes, you're miserable. You keep bringing up "bowing to her every whim". You are, quite frankly, very selfish, and can't see how stepping out and swallowing your pride and doing what I believe she is so clearly telling you in your (brief) conversations listed here can actually improve the situation. I say man up and fight FOR her, and lose the "mangina" by cowering behind "she's an idiot" or "her parents are lunatics" or "she's a lunatic" or "I'm the sane one here" or "I am trying".

fair point.

[davebg 0]

Hello.

[midacamp 0]

Too much for a first post?

[jerryskids 6,641]

Too much for a first post?

Also we don't use words like "saunter". This is more of a hityouinthefacewithabrick sorta bored. Which some may find offensive, others may find quite effective.

[midacamp 0]

Also we don't use words like "saunter". This is more of a hityouinthefacewithabrick sorta bored. Which some may find offensive, others may find quite effective.

 

Yeah, I was afraid I would come across too strongly. Ok, very strongly

 

And I'll refrain from using the word "saunter"

 

I get a feeling that I have a different view on marriage in general, and the topic does get me fired up a bit. For that I apologize. I do hope and pray that you (davebg) and the Mrs get things worked out. It will be so worth it.

[jerryskids 6,641]

I get a feeling that I have a different view on marriage in general, and the topic does get me fired up a bit. For that I apologize. I do hope and pray that you (davebg) and the Mrs get things worked out. It will be so worth it.

I don't think your view on marriage is different from a lot of people here. See my posts on the subject as an example. No need to apologize. I'm just saying that if you type a lot of words, people here will likely tune you out.

 

Many of the posters here (e.g., kutulu, edjr) have about a 3rd grade reading level. If you mix in some pictures, preferably photoshops, it helps to keep their attention.

 

Also you are quite the prolific poster now, given your 18 month delay between registering and first post.

[ROBOKOP 0]

Dave, my boy: Take my advice with a grain of salt. Dude, you have to do some self-evaluation a figure out what is important in your life and where you want to be. The whole, I need to be a manly man and take no crap from the woman attitude needs to go. As relationships develop communication sometimes goes downhill. We are all different types of people and we all communicate differently. Sometimes the timing is just not right for someone to express emotion. A big problem in cases like this is that both people are just too damn stubborn. The first thing that you both have to do is honestly want to make it work and then take responsibility. You have to tell yourself, I am partially responsible for focking this up and then find out what you can do to make it better. She also has to do the same thing. As far as you bailing to go to the gym, I dont know how everything went down, but I do know that you cant force someone to talk, and it is better sometimes to seperate yourself to collect your thoughts before addressin a problem. Your responsibility though, is to give your wife a solution, and not just escaping. By this I mean, explain to her that you have had a long day and have a lot of things on your mind and then set up a specific time where you would be willing to "rehash" and talk things over. For instance, lets talk this over tomorrow over breakfast/lunch. There are some people that have things that bug them and they need to get that information out to someone and if they dont, it eats them up inside. For their significant other to completely blow them off demonstrates to them that they dont care. Ive had experiences in relationships in my life and if you care aout this woman I would like to see you give the effort to make it work. I dont care for her comment about cancelling a vacation and you should discuss that certain hings like insults, name calling, and threats, leadin up to threats of divorce should be considered off-limits. Good luck with things, just remember to do your part and explain what you are feeling; if you need space, explain why. By the way I do not have a mangina, I have plenty of testosterone flowing through these veins; I just care about my family.

[ROBOKOP 0]

One question for you, with no disrespect, mainly based upon:

 

"Geeks I'm looking forward to meeting: I'll meet up for beers w/anyone...just keep your hands off of my slim new figure...unless you really are a chick...in which case, nevermind the ring...have I mentioned that my marriage is a little rocky right now?"

 

How much infedelity has there been in the four years of this marriage, honestly?

[davebg 0]

One question for you, with no disrespect, mainly based upon:

 

"Geeks I'm looking forward to meeting: I'll meet up for beers w/anyone...just keep your hands off of my slim new figure...unless you really are a chick...in which case, nevermind the ring...have I mentioned that my marriage is a little rocky right now?"

 

How much infedelity has there been in the four years of this marriage, honestly?

I have never cheated on my wife....came close once or twice, but never did.

 

 

 

I dont care for her comment about cancelling a vacation and you should discuss that certain hings like insults, name calling, and threats, leadin up to threats of divorce should be considered off-limits.

Yeah...last night she tells me that she wasn't serious about the cancelling the vacation thing. She was just trying to play the pity card.

 

I told her I don't play that sh|t.

 

You know, I may not be the best at communicating my feelings, but at least when I do speak I'm being honest and not just lashing out. She, on the other hand, seems to be taking many cues from her immature, whack-job parents and how they relate to one another.

[Ravens 03 0]

She was just trying to play the pity card.

 

I have tons to say on this subject but will not.

 

Except - If things get worse - you've seen nothing yet as far as the 'pity card' being played.

 

 

Good luck

[davebg 0]

The whole, I need to be a manly man and take no crap from the woman attitude needs to go.

I realize that it's not obvious from my posts, but that really hasn't been my attitude. I know that any good relationship requires compromise...and I think that I have been doing that. I have just reached a point where it has gotten to be so much compromising that it is starting to feel like settling, which is not so greta.

[Jeremy 0]

Yeah, I was afraid I would come across too strongly. Ok, very strongly

 

And I'll refrain from using the word "saunter"

 

I get a feeling that I have a different view on marriage in general, and the topic does get me fired up a bit.

 

If by "different views on marriage" you mean you believe it really and truely is a lifetime commitment, then you're not alone. It's a shame if that's considered a "different view" these days.

[CurlyNight 0]

If by "different views on marriage" you mean you believe it really and truely is a lifetime commitment, then you're not alone. It's a shame if that's considered a "different view" these days.

Sometimes 2 people should never have gotten married. I have a feeling these 2 shouldn't have, especially seeing he and perhaps she didn't really think about it enough before hand. Why make yourself miserable in the name of marriage if you find you are and/or most of the time to no avail.

Had I stayed with my ex, I would be hating my life right now, and him even moreso. He's doing the right thing with exploring what will make him happy before the kiddies come along and make it even more strenous. He does want kids. Being a kid in a broken home where parents hate each other or are always bickering is not a healthy thing at all.

[Jeremy 0]

Sometimes 2 people should never have gotten married. I have a feeling these 2 shouldn't have, especially seeing he and perhaps she didn't really think about it enough before hand. Why make yourself miserable in the name of marriage if you find you are and/or most of the time to no avail.

Had I stayed with my ex, I would be hating my life right now, and him even moreso.

 

Those are good points.

 

But, I do think todays watered down definition of marriage has led some people to rush into marriage before they are really sure what they want. I've actually heard people say words to the effect that they're getting married, and if things don't work out, we can always get a divorce. In my (perhaps idealistic) view, when you go into a marriage, you have to go in thinking divorce is not an option. There is no out once your in.

 

Now obviously there are exceptions to the rule. Infidelity and abuse. And sometimes it's just so bad that you have to get out. If you're at the point of actual hatred, maybe you need to get out. But I see a lot of people bailing out without really working on it, too.

 

He's doing the right thing with exploring what will make him happy before the kiddies come along and make it even more strenous. He does want kids. Being a kid in a broken home where parents hate each other or are always bickering is not a healthy thing at all.

 

I think what he needs to do and what he hopefully IS doing is finding out how he can be happy within his marriage. Abandon all thoughts of divorce and focus on making the marriage better. I've been unhappy in my marriage in the past, to the point where if we were not married I probably wouldn't have broken it off. But since marriage is a "for better or worse" committment, the only option was to work like hell to make it better. And we have. And we're still working on making it even better still, though we still struggle with communication sometimes.

 

But I can't tell you how many times I've been tempted to say "screw it. We're just not compatible." But then that word "marriage" is there forcing me to keep going.

 

You're right that they should not have kids until their issues are resolved. That isn't healthy for the kids, and going through a parent divorce is perhaps even more unhealthy for kids. No way should they be having kids right now. I think they realize that.

[davebg 0]

Those are good points.

 

But, I do think todays watered down definition of marriage has led some people to rush into marriage before they are really sure what they want. I've actually heard people say words to the effect that they're getting married, and if things don't work out, we can always get a divorce. In my (perhaps idealistic) view, when you go into a marriage, you have to go in thinking divorce is not an option. There is no out once your in.

 

Now obviously there are exceptions to the rule. Infidelity and abuse. And sometimes it's just so bad that you have to get out. If you're at the point of actual hatred, maybe you need to get out. But I see a lot of people bailing out without really working on it, too.

I think what he needs to do and what he hopefully IS doing is finding out how he can be happy within his marriage. Abandon all thoughts of divorce and focus on making the marriage better. I've been unhappy in my marriage in the past, to the point where if we were not married I probably wouldn't have broken it off. But since marriage is a "for better or worse" committment, the only option was to work like hell to make it better. And we have. And we're still working on making it even better still, though we still struggle with communication sometimes.

 

But I can't tell you how many times I've been tempted to say "screw it. We're just not compatible." But then that word "marriage" is there forcing me to keep going.

 

You're right that they should not have kids until their issues are resolved. That isn't healthy for the kids, and going through a parent divorce is perhaps even more unhealthy for kids. No way should they be having kids right now. I think they realize that.

You make some interesting points.

 

Some thoughts:

 

I have read a number of articles these days about divorce. Divorce definitely doesn't carry the same stigma to it as in previous generations. That is in large part to the fact that the current generation gew up with divorce and it has become more common to have grown up in a divorced or even a mixed-family home.

 

I have also read a number of articles about a new phenomenon called "starter marriages." These are marriages that end after 2 - 5 years and have no kids. The theory is that the people who leave these starter marriages do so a little smarter and wiser...about themselves and what they want, which supposedly prepares them to make better decisions about marriage the second time around. Of course, since it's all so new, it's just a theory and there is no way to know if it will prove out.

 

Now, I'm not saying that I buy any of this, but I thought I'd throw it out there. I mean, is it a good thing that it is so socially acceptable to get a divorce these days? I'd say yes and no. While it's fairly obvious why it isn't a good thing, I can also see some reasons why maybe it is a good thing in some situations. You mentioned abuse, for example. I mean, how many people do you know that have stayed in a marriage just for appearances and are miserable? My parents fall into that category (they could probably be the poster children for it.) It may not be right of me to do, but I can't help but have that and my absolute unwillingness to subject myself to that for the next 40 - 50 years play a part in how I feel about my current marriage.

[TheNewGirl 1,404]

Excellent adivce on this third page here (midcamp??, Jeremy, ROBOKOP, jerryskids et al.). They all seem to have the same idea about marriage that I do as well.

 

I think that the "starter marriage" is a bunch of crap, personally. I didn't marry my husband "to see if I could be married and to get smarter." That's what long term relationships are for, or for that matter, living together. We lived together before marrige because we needed to see if we could. As some couple shouldn't get married, some couples shouldn't live together either. Why go and spend all that money on a wedding, honeymoon, etc, if you're just planning on getting divorced in 2 to 5 years? What's the point?

 

I too have heard MANY people say, "Well, if it doesn't work, we will just get divorced." Gimme a break. Again, why go through the marrige, the hassle of finding out that it's not going to work, etc etc.

[davebg 0]

I think that the "starter marriage" is a bunch of crap, personally. I didn't marry my husband "to see if I could be married and to get smarter." That's what long term relationships are for, or for that matter, living together. We lived together before marrige because we needed to see if we could. As some couple shouldn't get married, some couples shouldn't live together either. Why go and spend all that money on a wedding, honeymoon, etc, if you're just planning on getting divorced in 2 to 5 years? What's the point?

 

I too have heard MANY people say, "Well, if it doesn't work, we will just get divorced." Gimme a break. Again, why go through the marrige, the hassle of finding out that it's not going to work, etc etc.

I don't really buy it either...hence the counseling as opposed to just getting a divorce the minute things get iffy.

 

Although, I do think that if things don't work out w/me and Mrs. DaveBG that I'd be better prepared the second time around, but I think that could be attributed to the counseling and/or the fact that I'm older and more mature (supposedly) than the first time around. As in most situations, there are some people who learn from their past and others who are doomed to repeat it.

[Slruc 0]

and my absolute unwillingness to subject myself to that for the next 40 - 50 years play a part in how I feel about my current marriage.

 

 

Dude, this is your whole problem. You fix the way you feel about your marriage, you don't bail.

 

Sorry the session went so crappy but don't expect them to get any better, becasue, I reiterate, you already made up your mind.

 

 

As for the starter marriage thing Puh-lease. It doesn't matter how you justify it. It's a failed marriage, and right now it looks as though your unwillingness to want the marriage to work, and unwillingness to look inward is a huge part of the problem.

 

 

Good luck finidng a good lawyer.