Why the Packers won't take AJ hawk at #5

[Portis26 0]

Why would they take a LB at #5 when (minus Arrington); LBs usually don't go in the top 5.

(I can name two that have gone top 5 - Lavar and Aundre Bruce)

 

They can get a VERY GOOD LB in the second round

...

 

I can see them taking Huff at 5

[49ER MAN 0]

Is an outside linebacker worth a top 5 selection? I wouldn't think so and if I'm the Pack, I thnk seriously of moving up to grab Mario Williams because it's really tough to find elite pass rushers in this league and they can re-structure or trade KGB at a later point since they re-signed Kampman this offseason.

[ellisonb11 0]

agreed....mario williams really impressed people with what he can do at the combine, and on game film. the guys truly a beast, and could severely help the pack on defense.

[uubeee 0]

Heck, they have the $$$.

 

1. Sign Arrington.

2. Draft Mario Williams.

3. Keep KGB for pass rush situtations.

4. Draft Dqwell Jackson

5. Sign Woodson

6. Draft some gaurds.

 

 

Life would look better for the Green and Gold. Don't know why TT is sitting on his thumb. He has excess cash. It doesn't help him to hold on to it. Heck, for that matter, sign everyone to 1st year loaded contracts so they don't suffer having to restructure on the back end.

[Phurfur 70]

Why would they take a LB at #5 when (minus Arrington); LBs usually don't go in the top 5.

(I can name two that have gone top 5 - Lavar and Aundre Bruce)

 

They can get a VERY GOOD LB in the second round

 

I couldn't agree more!

[Raider 84 29]

Mario Williams should be the #2 pick in the draft.

[Parja 0]

sign everyone to 1st year loaded contracts so they don't suffer having to restructure on the back end.

 

Yup, they've got the room to big time front load some contracts. I would think guys like Arrington and especially Woodson would sign for less total than they've been asking for if they get mombo signing bonuses.

[listen2me 23 1,546]

Hawk is worth a 5th pick if you have LB play like GB....which is their biggest need...

 

I say take Mario if he's there.....then Hawk if he's not....I like the Huff Pick too but for some reason no one has Huff going there and no experts talk about him there either...

 

I dont know why LBs "cant" go that high.....

 

guys like LT, D Thomas, D Brooks, Bullick, Joey Porter, and Merriman are all game changers and leaders on D....If you get an exsplosive LB that can go sideline to sideline and makes plays that is well worth a 5th pick specially when that is your biggest need...

 

I don't know why LB is so undervalued?.....They are the "utility" players on D....if you can get one who can Rush, Tackle and Cover....what is of more value than that?

[kristv 0]

I just don't see TT giving up the draft picks to move up for Mario. If Mario falls to the Pack at #5, great! But I don't see it happening, and A.J. Hawk is easily the next best defensive talent in the draft. I'm not sure he isn't the best defensive talent in the draft to be honest. I really like this guy, and would be happy to see him in the green and gold.

[49ER MAN 0]

I just don't see TT giving up the draft picks to move up for Mario. If Mario falls to the Pack at #5, great! But I don't see it happening, and A.J. Hawk is easily the next best defensive talent in the draft. I'm not sure he isn't the best defensive talent in the draft to be honest. I really like this guy, and would be happy to see him in the green and gold.

 

You're probably right the Pack won't trade up but in my view, you can find LB's. An elite, young and premier pass rusher doesn't come around every day so if you have a shot to acquire him, you do it.

[Portis26 0]

I just don't see TT giving up the draft picks to move up for Mario. If Mario falls to the Pack at #5, great! But I don't see it happening, and A.J. Hawk is easily the next best defensive talent in the draft. I'm not sure he isn't the best defensive talent in the draft to be honest. I really like this guy, and would be happy to see him in the green and gold.

 

I personlly think Huff is the 2nd best defensive player in the draft... not Hawk. I'll be EXTREMELY surprised if Hawk goes in the top 5

 

You can land a guys like

Abdul, McIntosh, DeMeco Ryans, in the 2nd round and won't be much different IMO - in terms of talent; but the drop from Huff and the player you get in the 2nd round are HUGE

[Deadpool 0]

I dont know why LBs "cant" go that high.....

 

guys like LT, D Thomas, D Brooks, Bullick, Joey Porter, and Merriman are all game changers and leaders on D....If you get an exsplosive LB that can go sideline to sideline and makes plays that is well worth a 5th pick specially when that is your biggest need...

 

I don't know why LB is so undervalued?.....They are the "utility" players on D....if you can get one who can Rush, Tackle and Cover....what is of more value than that?

 

 

I think LBs can be drafted high and produce, but its one of the only positions outside of OL where you can consistently find steals late. I can name plenty of LBs that had All-Pro careers that were drafted in the 3rd round or later.

 

Look at the top LB stats from the last few years and you will see huge changes in who the top 15 are for example. Yes, there are some steady performers, but you also have alot of guys that move up and down the rankings without any consistency.

[jdswan922 0]

###### Butkus was drafted 3rd overall...there is another LB drafted in the top 5. I would say there are LBs worth a top 5 pick.

[swamp dog 0]

if the packers drafted terrell buckley #5 overall they sure as hell can draft hawk at 5.

 

###### Butkus was drafted 3rd overall...there is another LB drafted in the top 5. I would say there are LBs worth a top 5 pick.

 

arrington (#3, i believe, yes). audrey bruce--a big bust--went #1 overall to the falcons back in the late 80s(ish).

 

then there was the trevor alberts (?) guy the colts drafted around #5...the pick kiper skewered which prompted the famous line by the colt gm of "who the hell is mel kiper?"

 

the jets drafted a linebacker a few years in the top 5...marvin jones (?...not sure of the name) he might still be playing for them.

 

those are just off the top of my head. i'm sure there are others.

[listen2me 23 1,546]

I personlly think Huff is the 2nd best defensive player in the draft... not Hawk. I'll be EXTREMELY surprised if Hawk goes in the top 5

 

You can land a guys like

Abdul, McIntosh, DeMeco Ryans, in the 2nd round and won't be much different IMO - in terms of talent; but the drop from Huff and the player you get in the 2nd round are HUGE

 

The packers (if they stay at 5) will draft Hawk or Williams....saying you can draft guys in the 2nd round and won't be much different than Hawk is crazy...Hawk is going to be a good player...its just the potential of Williams that is so appealing...

 

Huff is not elite.....he is stuck between S and CB yes he can do both but he is not a master at one....there are NO elite CBs in this draft if there was you would see them go automatically to the Saints at 2 or Jets at 4....Huff will be the 8th 9th or 10th pick IMO...

 

the only shot he has of cracking the top 6 is going to the 49ers...

 

With Hawk you know what yo are getting....there is no reason he isnt the 2nd best D player in the draft...he woulda went top 5 or 6 had he came out last year....and thats where he will be this year.

[swamp dog 0]

The packers (if they stay at 5) will draft Hawk or Williams....saying you can draft guys in the 2nd round and won't be much different than Hawk is crazy...Hawk is going to be a good player...its just the potential of Williams that is so appealing...

 

Huff is not elite.....he is stuck between S and CB yes he can do both but he is not a master at one....there are NO elite CBs in this draft if there was you would see them go automatically to the Saints at 2 or Jets at 4....Huff will be the 8th 9th or 10th pick IMO...

 

the only shot he has of cracking the top 6 is going to the 49ers...

 

With Hawk you know what yo are getting....there is no reason he isnt the 2nd best D player in the draft...he woulda went top 5 or 6 had he came out last year....and thats where he will be this year.

 

actually, the scouting reports i've seen of huff is that he can indeed do both s and cb well (although most teams, like detroit, project him at safety where scouts think he could be ed reed-like). the iffy part about huff is the unknown: he played in a zone coverage system at texas that makes scouts have to study film a little harder to dissect him. but #5 probably is too high for him, i agree.

[swamp dog 0]

Why would they take a LB at #5 when (minus Arrington); LBs usually don't go in the top 5.

(I can name two that have gone top 5 - Lavar and Aundre Bruce)

 

They can get a VERY GOOD LB in the second round

...

 

I can see them taking Huff at 5

 

ah, i'm too lazy to re-do my previous post. here's the hard data on linebackers taken in the top-5 since 1990:

 

90: seau #5 overall

91: croel #4

92: coryatt #2

93: jones #4 (that was further back than i remembered in my earlier post)

94: mcginest #4

96: hardy #2

97: boulaware #4

00: arrington #3

 

and there were a lot more taken in the 6-9 slots during that time period as well. but there is no historical evidence to back the claim that linebackers rarely go in the top-5. in fact, it's just the opposite: most drafts have at least 1 lb going in the top-5.

[kristv 0]

actually, the scouting reports i've seen of huff is that he can indeed do both s and cb well (although most teams, like detroit, project him at safety where scouts think he could be ed reed-like). the iffy part about huff is the unknown: he played in a zone coverage system at texas that makes scouts have to study film a little harder to dissect him. but #5 probably is too high for him, i agree.

 

 

That's just it...I don't see him as a #5. Sure, he's top talent, but not #5 as far as I'm concerned. I suppose that's part of it though. It's all in the eye of the beholder, isn't it? TT may see Huff as a better pick than Hawk. We'll just have to wait and see. I'm not saying Huff isn't a good prospect, but I don't agree with the idea of him being better than Hawk overall.

[whoisjgalt 0]

It's more than just a few since 1982 (24 drafts):

 

1982 #2 Baltimore Johnie Cooks OLB Mississippi State

1982 #3 Cleveland Chip Banks OLB Southern California

1983 #5 San Diego Billy Ray Smith OLB Arkansas

1984 #3 N.Y. Giants Carl Banks OLB Michigan State

1985 #5 Indianapolis Duane Bickett OLB Southern California

1986 #5 St. Louis Anthony Bell OLB Michigan State

1987 #2 Indianapolis Cornelius Bennett OLB Alabama

1987 #5 Cleveland Mike Junkin ILB Duke

1990 #5 San Diego Junior Seau OLB Southern California

1991 #4 Denver Mike Croel OLB Nebraska

1992 #2 Indianapolis Quentin Coryatt MLB Texas A&M

1993 #4 N.Y. Jets Marvin Jones MLB Florida State

1994 #4 New England Willie McGinest OLB Southern California

1994 #5 Indianapolis Trev Alberts LB Nebraska

1996 #2 Jacksonville Kevin Hardy OLB Illinois

1997 #4 Baltimore Peter Boulware OLB Florida State

2000 #2 Washington LaVar Arrington OLB Penn State

 

Note that the Colts selected five of these seventeen linebackers.

[swamp dog 0]

It's more than just a few since 1982 (24 drafts):

 

1982 #2 Baltimore Johnie Cooks OLB Mississippi State

1982 #3 Cleveland Chip Banks OLB Southern California

1983 #5 San Diego Billy Ray Smith OLB Arkansas

1984 #3 N.Y. Giants Carl Banks OLB Michigan State

1985 #5 Indianapolis Duane Bickett OLB Southern California

1986 #5 St. Louis Anthony Bell OLB Michigan State

1987 #2 Indianapolis Cornelius Bennett OLB Alabama

1987 #5 Cleveland Mike Junkin ILB Duke

1990 #5 San Diego Junior Seau OLB Southern California

1991 #4 Denver Mike Croel OLB Nebraska

1992 #2 Indianapolis Quentin Coryatt MLB Texas A&M

1993 #4 N.Y. Jets Marvin Jones MLB Florida State

1994 #4 New England Willie McGinest OLB Southern California

1994 #5 Indianapolis Trev Alberts LB Nebraska

1996 #2 Jacksonville Kevin Hardy OLB Illinois

1997 #4 Baltimore Peter Boulware OLB Florida State

2000 #2 Washington LaVar Arrington OLB Penn State

 

Note that the Colts selected five of these seventeen linebackers.

 

interesting. thanks for filling in some of the years prior to 90.

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 37]

It's more than just a few since 1982 (24 drafts):

 

1982 #2 Baltimore Johnie Cooks OLB Mississippi State

1982 #3 Cleveland Chip Banks OLB Southern California

1983 #5 San Diego Billy Ray Smith OLB Arkansas

1984 #3 N.Y. Giants Carl Banks OLB Michigan State

1985 #5 Indianapolis Duane Bickett OLB Southern California

1986 #5 St. Louis Anthony Bell OLB Michigan State

1987 #2 Indianapolis Cornelius Bennett OLB Alabama

1987 #5 Cleveland Mike Junkin ILB Duke

1990 #5 San Diego Junior Seau OLB Southern California

1991 #4 Denver Mike Croel OLB Nebraska

1992 #2 Indianapolis Quentin Coryatt MLB Texas A&M

1993 #4 N.Y. Jets Marvin Jones MLB Florida State

1994 #4 New England Willie McGinest OLB Southern California

1994 #5 Indianapolis Trev Alberts LB Nebraska

1996 #2 Jacksonville Kevin Hardy OLB Illinois

1997 #4 Baltimore Peter Boulware OLB Florida State

2000 #2 Washington LaVar Arrington OLB Penn State

 

When one looks at this list, one can only hope that Mario lasts. It's probably not a whole lot different for DE's tho. I just think that a PB DE can have a more disruptive effect on a game than a PB LB. Maybe just Reggie White memories. Also find it interesting that LT1 wasn't on this list.

Note that the Colts selected five of these seventeen linebackers.

[listen2me 23 1,546]

Teams can double team DEs....Ive seen great DEs just get token out of the game due to a great scheme by the opponent....on the other hand ove never really seen a great LB tooken out of the game...I think Mariop should be the pick....but Hawk is right behind him...

[whoisjgalt 0]

Also find it interesting that LT1 wasn't on this list.

 

He would have been if the NFL.com draft history went back one extra year - LT was taken 2nd overall by the Giants in the 1981 draft. The NFL.com draft history only goes back to 1982 - the years I listed.

[swamp dog 0]

Teams can double team DEs....Ive seen great DEs just get token out of the game due to a great scheme by the opponent....on the other hand ove never really seen a great LB tooken out of the game...I think Mariop should be the pick....but Hawk is right behind him...

 

actually, i remember the game plan against lawrence taylor as being run right at him. usually the speed backers like lt can be neutralized if you run right at them and put a lineman on them and run them over.

 

of course, you can't do that for every single play of the game. but it is an effective strategy.

[ROCKET 0]

The Colts drafted 5 of the 17 LB'ers and lost the only stud of the 5 to Buffalo in Cornelius Bennett. Kiper dissed them for taking Trev Alberts and said they should have taken Trent Dilfer instead. Trent did have his SB year but Kiper ended up being as wrong as the Colts were. Hawk would be as solid a pick as any at #5 for the Pack assuming D-brick and Mario are gone.

[Walter34 3]

He would have been if the NFL.com draft history went back one extra year - LT was taken 2nd overall by the Giants in the 1981 draft. The NFL.com draft history only goes back to 1982 - the years I listed.

 

Here's a better draft site for you: http://www.drafthistory.com/years.html

 

Search by team, year, round, position, whatever.

[Mack 1 6]

AJ Hawk = Andy Katzenmoyer

[kristv 0]

AJ Hawk = Andy Katzenmoyer

 

Let's just hope that if the Packers take Hawk, he doesn't end up with a career-ending injury like Katz did.

[Portis26 0]

Good thread guys-- lots of pros and cons about taking a LB at #5.

 

IMO - Packers pass on Hawk, but draft speculation is what its all about!!!

[Michael Sieger 0]

Do the Packers want to use a #5 pick on a guy who may only play first down? Barnett is the only LB who will be on the field in the dime. That said, no way they move up in this draft - down would be more likely - and it certainly appears that Super Mario will not be around at #5.

[kristv 0]

Do the Packers want to use a #5 pick on a guy who may only play first down? Barnett is the only LB who will be on the field in the dime. That said, no way they move up in this draft - down would be more likely - and it certainly appears that Super Mario will not be around at #5.

 

 

This is what I keep saying. I don't think the Pack are gonna stay at #5. I think they will trade down for more picks, as this is Ted Thompson's type of strategy. I still think we could end up trading with Denver on draft day for their two first-round picks and they get our fifth or sixth round pick in the trade as well. Denver is much closer to being a contender than the Pack is, and a top 5 pick in the draft might be all they need to push them back into SB contention. But if the Packers DO stay put, Mario won't be there when they pick and I believe they will go with Hawk, as LB is easily the worst part of their defense. Huff doesn't make sense here, because we haven't even seen what Hawkins can do (and I believe he is going to be a star eventually).

[Timinator 0]

I've aready pre-ordered my A.J. Hawk Packers jersey! The guy's a beast!!

 

Of course, I also was adamant the Packers move up to grab WR J.J. Stokes when Sharpe retired.

 

Trading down is A-OK with me.

[listen2me 23 1,546]

Do the Packers want to use a #5 pick on a guy who may only play first down? Barnett is the only LB who will be on the field in the dime. That said, no way they move up in this draft - down would be more likely - and it certainly appears that Super Mario will not be around at #5.

 

How would he only play first down?.....so your telling me that the GB D will be that good that every third down they will have made it a passing down in that it will be 3rd and 8-15?.....no...

 

the packers will use the 4-3 and nickle at least 2 times a set of downs....maybe 3...if its like 3rd and 5 or under...

 

He will play on more downs that Mario would over the course of the year ...no doubt about it!

 

At least with Hawk we have NO ONE else there...robert Thomas (whoo Hoo)....with Mario we have KGB and Kampman...those 2 will have to play somewhat a lot, seeing that they are both good vets...

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

I've aready pre-ordered my A.J. Hawk Packers jersey! The guy's a beast!!

 

This is what I'd be considering if I was the Packer brass. Favre will be gone soon....maybe very soon. Who becomes the face of the team when Favre leaves? Aaron Rodgers.....no. Nick Barnett.....ne. Mario Williams.....possibly, but he comes with the price of moving up.

 

AJ Hawk! Definitely. This guy could be the face of this team for years to come. Green Bay fans would be on this guy's jock. He's tough, he's a good leader, he's fast, and he's ugly the way a great linebacker should be. This guy was made for Green Bay.

 

Go after one of the top guards or even a tackle in the 2nd round but take Hawk in the 1st. He'll come at a price since he's a top 5 pick but I believe he'd be a fantastic investment barring injuries. He'd put butts in the seats and sell Packer gear, guaranteed.

 

Blue collar town + Blue collar player = Match made in heaven.

[listen2me 23 1,546]

This is what I'd be considering if I was the Packer brass. Favre will be gone soon....maybe very soon. Who becomes the face of the team when Favre leaves? Aaron Rodgers.....no. Nick Barnett.....ne. Mario Williams.....possibly, but he comes with the price of moving up.

 

AJ Hawk! Definitely. This guy could be the face of this team for years to come. Green Bay fans would be on this guy's jock. He's tough, he's a good leader, he's fast, and he's ugly the way a great linebacker should be. This guy was made for Green Bay.

 

Go after one of the top guards or even a tackle in the 2nd round but take Hawk in the 1st. He'll come at a price since he's a top 5 pick but I believe he'd be a fantastic investment barring injuries. He'd put butts in the seats and sell Packer gear, guaranteed.

 

Blue collar town + Blue collar player = Match made in heaven.

 

Agree....but if they believe mario is the better player for this team take mario.

 

all depends if they are looking for need or freakish talent....i would say talent considering they are rebuilding and need a huge playmaker anywhere they can find them

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 37]

Lot's of people here are assuming Mario will be gone before pick 5. I have seen numerous Mocks that show him being there and the Pack grabbing him. Here's one: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Armr...=yhoo&type=lgns

 

Sorry, I don't know how to make it a Link.

 

I think if he is there the Pack takes him. If not, TT trades down for more picks. That's his style and the Pack have many needs.

[listen2me 23 1,546]

yes i also dont know why people think he def. wont be there at 5...

 

Young Brick Leinart Bush....could all go before 5....alos if the saints traded down to 4 i think they could go Hawk seeing how bad there LBs have been for so many years...

[hoffdaddy 1]

If Williams is gone, I wouldn't be angry with a pikc of Huff. The guy can cover and hit, something the green bay secondary sorely needs. Get Carrol out of there. A Huff, Harris, Collins, and Manuel seconday is light years better than what they put on the field last season. Add in a second round LB, and let Robert Thomas and Ben Taylor fight it out for the other LB spot.

 

It's a pipe dream, but that's what I'd like to see.

[swamp dog 0]

If Williams is gone, I wouldn't be angry with a pikc of Huff. The guy can cover and hit, something the green bay secondary sorely needs. Get Carrol out of there. A Huff, Harris, Collins, and Manuel seconday is light years better than what they put on the field last season. Add in a second round LB, and let Robert Thomas and Ben Taylor fight it out for the other LB spot.

 

It's a pipe dream, but that's what I'd like to see.

 

huff is projected by many scouts to play safety.

[BrownsWon 0]

AJ Hawk = Andy Katzenmoyer

 

There is no comparison - Katzenmoyer was a great talent who didn't have his act together. AJ Hawk is talented and has tremendous leadership skills. AJ Hawk is Chris Spielman with a lot more talent.

 

You draft Hawk for his leadership skills as well as his talent. If Green Bay doesn't need Hawk as a leader on defense, then you don't draft him.