football_scooter 0 Posted May 17, 2006 12 team redraft, standard scoring, PPR, team D/ST It's pick 2.03, and you selected Rudi Johnson with your 1st pick. You have Carnell Williams and Steve Smith as your highest rated at each position left on the board... You're on the clock! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SmartassBoiler 0 Posted May 17, 2006 I personally think the dropoff from Caddy to the RB you'd get in the 3rd round is worse than Steve Smith to the WR in the 3rd round. I'd go with Caddy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jocstrap 8 Posted May 17, 2006 This is a good one Scooter - I'm having to go with Caddy also. the next time it comes back around I'm not sure what rb's might be left. The only thing that scares me though is alstott taking those 1-2 yard td's . Last year I had both of these guys. I won't be as lucky this year. Caddy is my vote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Portis26 0 Posted May 17, 2006 I personally think the dropoff from Caddy to the RB you'd get in the 3rd round is worse than Steve Smith to the WR in the 3rd round. I'd go with Caddy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
football_scooter 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Caddy, no question... I think there is some question. Obviously, otherwise I wouldn't have used these two. Their ADP is quite similar (+/- 2 picks of each other), they will likely perform at about the same level with SSMith having perhaps more upside for TDs since Alstott is on the Bucs, and especially so in a PPR league. I would probably take Caddy and take my chances, but the temptation to take a top tier WR and grab Droughns/Dunn/etc in the 3rd is pretty strong... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdubz 0 Posted May 17, 2006 I personally think the dropoff from Caddy to the RB you'd get in the 3rd round is worse than Steve Smith to the WR in the 3rd round. I'd go with Caddy. agree, caddy is the last of a teir for me in my rankings where as smith in very close to 4 or 5 other wrs IMO. caddy is the pick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Octopus 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Honestly Smith wouldn't be my top receiver left on the board likely at this point in the draft, but tp play along I'd take Owens for example over Caddy here. I think RBs are deeper than people here think and Caddy has some question marks: TD vulture in Alstott; 3rd down vulture in Pittman and injury history. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimmy "Superfly" Snuka 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Wow. I'm the only one who took Steve Smith (so far). I feel I must justify this some how. How do you pass up on who is possibly the best (and certainly most exciting) receiver in the league? Why take a second year running back who wore down by midseason last year. Chris Sims scares me. What ever happened to Major Applewhite. They should get that guy to back him up again. He could be like a new Doug Flutie. Whatever take another freaking running back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JScott 20 Posted May 17, 2006 ... take a top tier WR and grab Droughns/Dunn/etc in the 3rd is... I'd go with this logic. Two out of the last 3 season (the exception being the year he broke his leg early on) Smith has been the #1 WR in FF. I project Smith's #s to be similar to the last full season he and Mush played together, obviously with Keyshawn getting Mush's numbers. Smith is a solid consist high scorer and Delhomme's favorite target BY FAR. I think there may be more risk (more uncertainty in production) from a WR in the 3rd round rather than a RB in the 3rd. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
football_scooter 0 Posted May 17, 2006 agree, caddy is the last of a teir for me in my rankings where as smith in very close to 4 or 5 other wrs IMO. caddy is the pick. Sure, but you would have no chance at any of those 4 or 5 other WRs at that draft position what with 19 picks between this and your next, and it would be likely that one of Droughns or Dunn would be there for you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
P.I. 0 Posted May 17, 2006 I agree with Superfly. Steve Smith flat out blew up last year and Caddy wore down bigtime. I would go with Steve Smith. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Ryan2 314 Posted May 17, 2006 tough call. if your starting lineup requires 3WR? Steve Smith if it's only 2 WRs required and especially if there's a flex where you can start an extra RB: Caddy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grigs Allmoon 0 Posted May 17, 2006 I agree with Superfly. Steve Smith flat out blew up last year and Caddy wore down bigtime. I would go with Steve Smith. Same here. Caddy is nothing more than any of the other RBs you could get in rounds 3 and 4. 2.3 is WAY too early for him, in my book. There's got to be guys like Dom Davis, Westbrook, etc. still out there, who I'd take in a hertbeat over Caddy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Force of Two 0 Posted May 17, 2006 I dont even think that Smith is the best WR on the board so Im definitly going 2nd RB here and then hope to get a leftover in round 3 at WR... basically your looking at a drop from Smith to Jackson/Roy/or maybe get lucky enough that a big name slides...against a drop of Caddy to KJ/JJ/Droughns Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Timinator 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Caddy here, but I probably wouldn't choose either depending on who was left. Every year, several WRs come out of nowhere to post good stats. Hey, Steve Smith is one of those guys! Joey Galloway anyone? Oh...Santana Moss. Always RB1 and RB2 before WR1. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grigs Allmoon 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Caddy here, but I probably wouldn't choose either depending on who was left. Every year, several WRs come out of nowhere to post good stats. Hey, Steve Smith is one of those guys! Joey Galloway anyone? Oh...Santana Moss. Always RB1 and RB2 before WR1. If you followed football you'd know Steve Smith didn't come out of nowhere... HTH Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Force of Two 0 Posted May 17, 2006 If you followed football you'd know Steve Smith didn't come out of nowhere... HTH he didnt come out of nowewhere but those smallish WR (other than Harrison and hes not tiny) generally are sporadic in fantasy football....Ill still take Owens, Fitz, Moss over him... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Timinator 0 Posted May 17, 2006 If you followed football you'd know Steve Smith didn't come out of nowhere... Bah. If you followed football, you'd know that Steve Smith has never been considered for 2.03 before. We do have some lovely parting gifts, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
football_scooter 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Same here. Caddy is nothing more than any of the other RBs you could get in rounds 3 and 4. 2.3 is WAY too early for him, in my book. There's got to be guys like Dom Davis, Westbrook, etc. still out there, who I'd take in a hertbeat over Caddy. IMO, Davis & Westbrook are the exact same RB as CWilliams, with Williams having more upside and playing in a better offense, with a more run-oriented coach and better O-Line. All 3 have injury concerns. If all remain healthy, it is possible that Westbrook & DDavis surpass Caddy because of the PPR aspect, but I think Williams is a tougher inside runner than either and is more likely to have better RuYds and RuTDs. But I do strongly disagree that Caddy is "nothing more than any of the other RBs you could get in rounds 3 & 4" - not in any sort of competitive league. I would expect all of Westbrook, Dunn, Droughns, CTaylor to be taken prior to your next pick at 3.10 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grigs Allmoon 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Bah. If you followed football, you'd know that Steve Smith has never been considered for 2.03 before. What does that have to do with coming out of nowhere? I wasn't arguing that he was never a top 2nd round pick... I'm saying he has had two very solid seasons so far (In a row, basically). You said he came out of nowhere, which is completely false. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
football_scooter 0 Posted May 17, 2006 WR v RB threads Morons who post only to slam topics that they're too stupid to participate in These are exactly the kinds of choices we all face in real FFB drafts every year. Learn to read and you might even learn something from them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grigs Allmoon 0 Posted May 17, 2006 But I do strongly disagree that Caddy is "nothing more than any of the other RBs you could get in rounds 3 & 4" - not in any sort of competitive league. I would expect all of Westbrook, Dunn, Droughns, CTaylor to be taken prior to your next pick at 4.10 Which means they are all round 3 - 4 picks, right? Isn't that what I said? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ilov80s 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Caddy is too much of an injury risk. You can pick up 2 or 3 backs in later rounds who could become top 10 guys with the right luck. Steve Smith is too good to pass IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jarvis Basnight 119 Posted May 17, 2006 This is a tough call because Smith is explosive. I'd still pick Caddy if it were between him and Smith. I do believe Cadillac is set up for success. When he was healthy last year he was very solid....#1 RB solid. I know there are possible point eaters with Alstott and Pittman but Gruden has professed serious lust after Cadillac and I believe him. Caddy will get plenty of time with Gruden coaching. I also think Simms will be fine and their WR corp will be fine with Clayton being fully healthy again. Smith is awesome but he also may have a few issues this year. You could make a case that the stars were perfectly aligned for Smith last year just like they were for Muhammad the year before. Now Carolina has Keyshawn and possibly a new up and comer in Drew Carter as well as DeAngelo who's supposed to have decent hands I believe. Carolina will need to spread the ball a bit more as Smith will be getting triple teamed at times again this year. Again, tough call. You'd have to see what's left when it would come back around to you. At your next pick you may have a Dunn or Droughns to choose from at RB but you could also have a Chambers or D. Jackson to pick from at WR. I'd feel better about a lineup including Rudi, Cadillac, and Jackson verses a lineup with Rudi, Dunn, and Smith. Just my opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grigs Allmoon 0 Posted May 17, 2006 he didnt come out of nowewhere but those smallish WR (other than Harrison and hes not tiny) generally are sporadic in fantasy football....Ill still take Owens, Fitz, Moss over him... Harrison (as you mentioned), Mason, Ward (to some degree), and now Steve Smith... I don't think they are any more sporradic than "big" WRs. In fact, they might be more consistent. How many other small WRs are there? Santana... Who we can't put in either group yet, because he just had a breakout year, but could put together a couple more like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
football_scooter 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Which means they are all round 3 - 4 picks, right? Isn't that what I said? Sorry - typo on my part...I meant to say they would all be gone by your next pick at 3.10, not 4,10. So in essence, if you passed on one of them for the WR, you'd not get any of them. They will all 3 be gone by the end of the 2nd round, IMO. Perhaps Westbrook slides a little...maybe you get lucky and Dunn or Droughns falls to you at 3.10, but after a couple "sleeper" years for them going in the 4th round, I suspect the word is out and they'll be more like mid-3rd rounders. and if you don't get lucky and someone reaches for Droughns/Dunn, then you're left with JJones, KJones, etc. Not exactly the most dependable RB2. No way does DDavis make it out of the 2nd round though. This one's very active in terms of discussion, and we've hit 25 votes within 20 mins...so I'll leave the voting open on this one most of the day. good though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Force of Two 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Harrison (as you mentioned), Mason, Ward (to some degree), and now Steve Smith... I don't think they are any more sporradic than "big" WRs. In fact, they might be more consistent. How many other small WRs are there? Santana... Who we can't put in either group yet, because he just had a breakout year, but could put together a couple more like that. Generally when a bigger WR blows up it seems to me that they continue that pace....IE Owens, Moss, Carter in the past...unless they do something that triggers the downfall (Boston) I dont trust the smurf WR to be consistent from year to year because they are generally not used as RZ targets and the WR screen or deep balls that they blew up on the scene with are defended better the following year... Harrison is a different animal altogether and has made a living out of precise route running and finding the open areas....however the guy rarely breaks tackles and falls after the catch more than to my taste. Mason is similar but only one year was he anything more than a solid 2 or 3.....Ward doesnt come off to me as a small player....maybe its because he plays so physical and tough Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ilov80s 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Harrison (as you mentioned), Mason, Ward (to some degree), and now Steve Smith... I don't think they are any more sporradic than "big" WRs. In fact, they might be more consistent. How many other small WRs are there? Santana... Who we can't put in either group yet, because he just had a breakout year, but could put together a couple more like that. Santana Moss had his breakout year in 2003 when he had 1100 yards and 10 TDs. He followed that up with a disappointing 838 and 5 TDs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 988 Posted May 17, 2006 I like this thread. I'd take Cadillac Williams. However, there is one wide receiver I would take before Cadillac and his name is Terrell Owens. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HawgWild 0 Posted May 17, 2006 It's close and I normally would go RB here but I am not completely sold on Caddy... But I do have Smith in the top 5 WR's so I would grab Smith here and hope to get another RB that I have rated about as high as Caddy... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parkers99 0 Posted May 17, 2006 It feels nice to be in the minority for once. In the great RB v WR debate I almost always side w/ the back; but not in this case. Being an Auburn fan, I'm a BIG fan of Caddy (great work ethic, team player & all around good guy). However, he's being ranked a tier too high this offseason. He is not an every down back in Tampa. Gruden will utilize Pittman on 3rd & Alstott near the goal. Additionally, Gruden tends to be a little pass happy... it just doesn't add up to stellar FF RB numbers. It's a PPR league & Smith could potentially finish as the #1 WR. He's the big play guy, I don't see Keyshawn's possession, move the chains catches interferring with his productivity in the slightest. Smith is the pick here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdubz 0 Posted May 17, 2006 he didnt come out of nowewhere but those smallish WR (other than Harrison and hes not tiny) generally are sporadic in fantasy football....Ill still take Owens, Fitz, Moss over him... andre johnson, roy williams, ashlie lelie, michael clayton....all big wrs and these guys wrote the book on sporadic while smith, harrison, santana, galloway, chambers all "smallish" were much more consistant. size really doesn't have much to do with fantasy production IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ilov80s 0 Posted May 17, 2006 It feels nice to be in the minority for once. In the great RB v WR debate I almost always side w/ the back; but not in this case. Being an Auburn fan, I'm a BIG fan of Caddy (great work ethic, team player & all around good guy). However, he's being ranked a tier too high this offseason. He is not an every down back in Tampa. Gruden will utilize Pittman on 3rd & Alstott near the goal. Additionally, Gruden tends to be a little pass happy... it just doesn't add up to stellar FF RB numbers. It's a PPR league & Smith could potentially finish as the #1 WR. He's the big play guy, I don't see Keyshawn's possession, move the chains catches interferring with his productivity in the slightest. Smith is the pick here. How do you feel about Caddy's ability to be an every down back in thw NFL? Do you feel he can consistently hold up through entire NFL seasons? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Force of Two 0 Posted May 17, 2006 andre johnson, roy williams, ashlie lelie, michael clayton....all big wrs and these guys wrote the book on sporadic while smith, harrison, santana, galloway all "smallish" were much more consistant. size really doesn't have much to do with fantasy production IMO. Not one of those guys that you named has ever scored double digit TD's...my point is that I think when small guys break out like Smith did this past year and Moss did 3 seasons ago or Galloway did back in the late 90's....they find it harder to do two years in a row....Galloway finally had his breakout season last season 2 teams later and at age 34....Moss went up then down and now up.... They arent used in the RZ like big guys and the trickery, and suprise doesnt work the next year... S. Smith will still put up good numbers but I think he will be stretching it to score like he did last year Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ilov80s 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Not one of those guys that you named has ever scored double digit TD's...my point is that I think when small guys break out like Smith did this past year and Moss did 3 seasons ago or Galloway did back in the late 90's....they find it harder to do two years in a row....Galloway finally had his breakout season last season 2 teams later and at age 34....Moss went up then down and now up.... They arent used in the RZ like big guys and the trickery, and suprise doesnt work the next year... S. Smith will still put up good numbers but I think he will be stretching it to score like he did last year You are getting very picky with what qualifies a breakout season. What about Keyshawn? Moulds? Drew Bennett? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Force of Two 0 Posted May 17, 2006 You are getting very picky with what qualifies a breakout season. What about Keyshawn? Moulds? Drew Bennett? Im talking elite guys....other than Keyshawn after 1998 would any of those guys be even considered at the Draft Spot that most are putting Smith at this year? Im just saying that those guys appear to have a more difficult time repeating that success the very next year and I would feel better in a re-draft about taking Owens than Smith, and in any form of keeper I would certainly take Fitz before Smith Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parkers99 0 Posted May 17, 2006 How do you feel about Caddy's ability to be an every down back in thw NFL? Do you feel he can consistently hold up through entire NFL seasons? I don't believe anyone can really predict that, though we did see him wear down last year (which is typical w/ a rookie back). I recall he had trouble with a nagging ankle & arch injury most of last season as well. The last two years @ Auburn, he & Ronnie rotated regularly but I dont think that was a knock on Caddy... I mean, if you had both those guys wouldn't you try like hell to get them both on the field? Ultimately what makes a quality NFL RB is talent, heart & work ethic. Caddy has all three & I hope he excels in Tampa. But I still have him ranked a tier below the consensus here. He's only the largest piece of a three headed backfield... Gruden only ran as much as he did last season because his QB & WR corps were so out of wack... WIth Clayton healthy again @ Flanker, we're going to see Gruden go back to the dink & dunk offense he was so successfull w/ in Oakland and unless Caddy somehow becomes the 3rd down/receiving back (which Pittman really excels at), I just don't see him having great FF value. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdubz 0 Posted May 17, 2006 Not one of those guys that you named has ever scored double digit TD's...my point is that I think when small guys break out like Smith did this past year and Moss did 3 seasons ago or Galloway did back in the late 90's....they find it harder to do two years in a row....Galloway finally had his breakout season last season 2 teams later and at age 34....Moss went up then down and now up.... They arent used in the RZ like big guys and the trickery, and suprise doesnt work the next year... S. Smith will still put up good numbers but I think he will be stretching it to score like he did last year really the only "consistant" big wrs the last few years by your criteria are randy and TO. and chad for two years (and smith has had 2 big years if you put the year before his injured year and last year together). name me another big wr that has been a stud or at least close to it for consecutive years...you're choosing from a rediculously small sample to prove a point. guys like roy williams, andre johnson, ashlie lelie, jerry porter have been expected to do big things the last few years and haven't produced to their expectations. there have been tons of big wrs that have been up and down while guys like harrison, holt, chambers, djax, derrick mason who are all 6 feet and under have been pretty consistant. i don't think smith will equal what he did last year, i don't think anyone in the NFL will. but to say he will be up and down just because of his height?...i don't agree with that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
