**Official** I"m sick of the African American BS

[A Dido Brother 0]

This is the most misinformed post I've ever seen on this site. Seriously. Trust me, you DON'T want to be black in today's society.

 

Let me share something with you: blacks have the "upper edge," as you called it, on NOTHING. What world are you living in? Sure, the Affirmative Action thing may assist some of us, but as a whole, blacks have to fight and claw for everything we get. I won't bore you with the details.

 

You want an example of a minority group that has had to scratch and claw for everything they got after being treated like crap for decades - try the Chinese Americans. That population, in spite of years of oppression, has somehow managed to succeed in America, without the special favors other minority groups have bitched and moaned for.

[MDC 5,932]

Explain to me how blacks have it harder cause frankly I just don't see it. A white person growing up with poor parents have it just as hard as a black person with poor parents.

 

Except that virtually every black person in the U.S. came from a family living in poverty and had to drag himself up by his bootstraps. Of course a poor person white or black who works hard and gets an education can improve his or her social standing. It's just that nobody ever asked the entire white race in America to do that. If virtually every white person in America started from that point within the past 50 years or so, I think you'd see pretty similar poverty and crime rates among that community.

[stosher1 0]

I think everyone on this board needs to rent "Crash" and watch it very carefully!

 

We live in a racist society. No matter how you want to dance around the facts, it's true.

[famousb 11]

LOL, sounds like you've been watching BS Discovery Channel special. For the record, carbon-dating was conducted on remains found in Africa back in the mid 1990s and it was concluded that the remains were those of a Black man, who, incidentally enough, is the original inhabitant of the planet. I know that's too deep for you, young fella, so again, I won't bore you with the minute details.

fyi, carbon dating tells the age of remains... go find a link that tells says it conclusively determines skin color oh misinformed one... nice try though...

what the tests found were that the bone structures were most similar to those of modern-day A-As. The correlation is then made that their skin tone was dark. Use science and proofs as opposed to theories and you may get a little more true knowledge, and a little farther ahead there in life little boy...

 

Your examples -- first black player and coach -- are find, but the fact that 2 black coaches made it, as leaders of men, to the pinnacle of their profession, I must say, trumps your examples. Sorry.

i accept the fact that Dungy and Lovie Smith made it to the pinnacle of their profession, great. but you're trying to tell me that the first A-A players in the NFL didn't have a harder time 'fitting in' than Dungy and Lovie Smith? Do you understand what it took, and what the original players went through in order to be a part of the NFL.

Where is the story when the first A-A coach coached in the MLB World Series? Is that more significant than Jackie Robinson and what he had to endure to be a part of the MLB?

You are simply looking through a very narrow, media-influenced microscope if you think the coaches getting to the SB are more important, or historically significant than the players who were the first to break the barriers as players that later allowed Dungy and Lovie Smith to be coaches. Albeit coaches that enforced the reality that A-A coaches are just as good as 'white' coaches.

 

ps. where is the storyline on the first A-A referee to officiate a SB game? he made it to the "top" of his profession too...

[A Dido Brother 0]

I think everyone on this board needs to rent "Crash" and watch it very carefully!

 

We live in a racist society. No matter how you want to dance around the facts, it's true.

 

Crash is a good movie, but to say we live in a racist society based off of a Hollywood blockbuster is a bit comical.

 

I could refute that argument by saying that you should watch 24 since evidently the US has already had 2 black Presidents!

 

Last I checked, the 14th Amendment was still intact, dude.

[Mack 1 6]

Explain to me how blacks have it harder cause frankly I just don't see it. A white person growing up with poor parents have it just as hard as a black person with poor parents. A rich black person has it just as easy as a rich white person.

I won't even dignify this absurd post with a comment.

[VaTerp 0]

Its funny that this issue has come to the forefront. After venturing to the Geek bored and reading some of the stuff over there it is very apparent that a large percentage of the posters on here are extremely prejudiced, bigoted, and/or misguided when it comes to the issue of race .

 

We could discuss the issue of race at nauseum b/c there is so much to talk about but I'd like to make a few quick points.

 

1. The fact that 2 Black coaches are in the Super Bowl and its the FIRST TIME in NFL history that even one is in the game is VERY significant. As Fumbleweed said there are still people out there, (IMO A LOT of people) who hold onto the myth that blacks are mentally inferior and incapable of being successful as Head Coaches. Thats why its a big deal when something happens for the FIRST time b/c people who follow racist ideology can point to the fact that it had never previously happend to support their beliefs. Interestingly, edjr, who has made many bigoted comments on other issues started a post yesterday morning saying that a black coach had NEVER (he emphasized) made it to the Super Bowl and according to him that would not change. What was the point of his thread?

 

2. Those of you who go on an on about reverse racism and suggesting that blacks have it better are making laugable points and need to get a clue. The fact is that it is still an everyday burden to be black in an American society that is dominated by white men. The effects of State and Federally legislated racism that occured for about 300 years in this country are not reversed in 30-40 years.

 

3. Yes, the media is already beginning to go overboard with the "2 first African-American coaches thing" but this is 2007 and the media overhypes almost EVERY story. Why is it that this issue bothers people so much? Now that this has happened, it wont be a big deal the next time.

[stosher1 0]

Crash is a good movie, but to say we live in a racist society based off of a Hollywood blockbuster is a bit comical.

 

I could refute that argument by saying that you should watch 24 since evidently the US has already had 2 black Presidents!

 

Last I checked, the 14th Amendment was still intact, dude.

My second statement has nothing to do with the movie - open your eyes and look around. Racism is everywhere.

[GobbleDog 822]

"Wake up white people!"

 

"Someday the Mexicans will outnumber the humans."

 

- Daniel Carver

[Bearshomer54 0]

I think everyone on this board needs to rent "Crash" and watch it very carefully!

 

We live in a racist society. No matter how you want to dance around the facts, it's true.

 

Loved that movie, I agree there is some racism going on for every race. I think people just like to complain. As an example, if we were all the same color, Americans would be complaining about the French and vice versa. Each generation of kids will become more and more colorblind. My dad was born in the 50's when blacks were just starting to break into sports and other areas of life. My dad isn't as racist as my grandpa, and I'm not racist at all. I think unless racism is taught in childhood, then kids will eventually not even know what racism is. My dad said he would disown me if I ever dated a black woman. If my kids want to date a black person, I would have absolutely no issue with that.

[Mack 1 6]

fyi, carbon dating tells the age of remains... go find a link that tells says it conclusively determines skin color oh misinformed one... nice try though...

what the tests found were that the bone structures were most similar to those of modern-day A-As. The correlation is then made that their skin tone was dark.

The original inhabitant of planet earth was a BLACK woman. Period. Is there a link to that fact? Probably not, but the last thing the white-driven media would want to do is trumpet this fact. Don't cha think?

 

...but you're trying to tell me that the first A-A players in the NFL didn't have a harder time 'fitting in' than Dungy and Lovie Smith? Do you understand what it took....

Hey Einstein, I'm saying it's more important because they're leaders in their respective positions, not simply rank-and file players. That's huge, particularly since the old white men who run the league once upon a time thought blacks didn't have the mental capacity to do so.

[Bearshomer54 0]

I won't even dignify this absurd post with a comment.

 

Please do... open my eyes to the oppression.

[Peens 0]

Please do... open my eyes to the oppression.

 

lol

[Franknbeans 46]

Please do... open my hood to the oppression.

 

[Mack 1 6]

Its funny that this issue has come to the forefront. After venturing to the Geek bored and reading some of the stuff over there it is very apparent that a large percentage of the posters on here are extremely prejudiced, bigoted, and/or misguided when it comes to the issue of race .

 

We could discuss the issue of race at nauseum b/c there is so much to talk about but I'd like to make a few quick points.

 

1. The fact that 2 Black coaches are in the Super Bowl and its the FIRST TIME in NFL history that even one is in the game is VERY significant. As Fumbleweed said there are still people out there, (IMO A LOT of people) who hold onto the myth that blacks are mentally inferior and incapable of being successful as Head Coaches. Thats why its a big deal when something happens for the FIRST time b/c people who follow racist ideology can point to the fact that it had never previously happend to support their beliefs. Interestingly, edjr, who has made many bigoted comments on other issues started a post yesterday morning saying that a black coach had NEVER (he emphasized) made it to the Super Bowl and according to him that would not change. What was the point of his thread?

 

2. Those of you who go on an on about reverse racism and suggesting that blacks have it better are making laugable points and need to get a clue. The fact is that it is still an everyday burden to be black in an American society that is dominated by white men. The effects of State and Federally legislated racism that occured for about 300 years in this country are not reversed in 30-40 years.

 

3. Yes, the media is already beginning to go overboard with the "2 first African-American coaches thing" but this is 2007 and the media overhypes almost EVERY story. Why is it that this issue bothers people so much? Now that this has happened, it wont be a big deal the next time.

Thank you; well said. Teach these closet racist pricks a thing or three. It's funny how people can be so courageous, yet anonymous, while spewing their racist, misguided, and misinformed rhetoric.

 

Please do... open my eyes to the oppression.

Dude, it's obvious your first interaction with black folks was watching the Cosby Show, so no, I'll abstain. Go buy yourself a clue.

[treat88 0]

Thank you; well said. Teach these closet racist pricks a thing or three. It's funny how people can be so courageous, yet anonymous, while spewing their racist, misguided, and misinformed rhetoric.

Dude, it's obvious your first interaction with black folks was watching the Cosby Show, so no, I'll abstain. Go buy yourself a clue.

 

 

Victim much?

[famousb 11]

The original inhabitant of planet earth was a BLACK woman. Period. Is there a link to that fact? Probably not, but the last thing the white-driven media would want to do is trumpet this fact. Don't cha think?

i love it when someone supports their "facts" with saying there is no link to the fact because they know it cannot be proven. Whether you are a religious person that believes in creation, or a science-based person who believes in a big-bang/evolution theory, or anything in between, there is NO evidence WHAT-SO-EVER to support any statement as to what the color of the first homosapien's skin color was (granted it was probably covered w/ enough hair that color of the actual skin was not ascertainable), and there definitely was no proof that the first "inhabitant" of the planet earth was a woman...

come to grips w/ the fact that you are making your argument worse by talking out of your arse about things you (nor anyone else) has any conclusive proof about.

heck, let's start this debate with defining "inhabitant" so we can at least be discussing the same thing.

 

Hey Einstein, I'm saying it's more important because they're leaders in their respective positions, not simply rank-and file players. That's huge, particularly since the old white men who run the league once upon a time thought blacks didn't have the mental capacity to do so.

so Not-So-Einstein, you think they are more historically significant because they are 'leaders', well what about the 'leaders' who broke the barriers in order to allow Dungy and Smith to even have the opportunity? Sure the rank-and-file players as you refer to them were not coaches, but again, i think there are alot of A-As that would consider them leaders. Is Jim Brown a leader? was Jackie Robinson a leader?

i never said it didn't have historical significance, but to say it has the greatest historical significance is just idiotic. you're completely disregarding other historical landmarks because you were obviously not part of them because you not around, you're simply basing your statement on your limited time on this planet.

[Peens 0]

Thank you; well said. Teach these closet racist pricks a thing or three. It's funny how people can be so courageous, yet anonymous, while spewing their racist, misguided, and misinformed rhetoric.

 

So since I'm not tripping over myself making a big deal out of the coaches skin color is I appear to be considered racist in your eyes? thats laughable.

 

Im a football fan and can care less what the skin color of the coaches, qb or weak side LB are. I just dont care.

[stosher1 0]

My dad was born in the 50's when blacks were just starting to break into sports and other areas of life. My dad isn't as racist as my grandpa, and I'm not racist at all. I think unless racism is taught in childhood, then kids will eventually not even know what racism is. My dad said he would disown me if I ever dated a black woman. If my kids want to date a black person, I would have absolutely no issue with that.

 

I was waiting for:

 

"Some of my best friends are black."

 

[Bearshomer54 0]

Thank you; well said. Teach these closet racist pricks a thing or three. It's funny how people can be so courageous, yet anonymous, while spewing their racist, misguided, and misinformed rhetoric.

Dude, it's obvious your first interaction with black folks was watching the Cosby Show, so no, I'll abstain. Go buy yourself a clue.

 

All I've heard you do is complain with no substance or examples of why. I'm still waiting on your examples of how blacks are oppressed. I know a lot of great black people, I have a lot of black friends, and I will vote for Obama for president. I find it funny how the cops in my town now send black cops to the black neighborhoods, so blacks can't complain about racist cops. Talk about bending over backwards and doing something that shouldn't have to be done.

[Mack 1 6]

I have a lot of black friends....

BINGO!!! We have a winnah!!!!

 

 

....there is NO evidence WHAT-SO-EVER to support any statement as to what the color of the first homosapien's skin color was

Ok, so you expected to be taught this kind of sh!t in school.....now I understand. Have you ever seeked out this information, or do you simply expect this kind of info to be posted on roadside bulletin boards? Just curious.

 

There are countless definitive texts written on the subject, including the most popular "Civilization or Barbarism" by Diop. It's some deep, deep stuff in that book that references sh!t that some of YOUR white forefathers wrote. HTH

 

so Not-So-Einstein, you think they are more historically significant because they are 'leaders', well what about the 'leaders' who broke the barriers in order to allow Dungy and Smith to even have the opportunity? Sure the rank-and-file players as you refer to them were not coaches, but again, i think there are alot of A-As that would consider them leaders. Is Jim Brown a leader? was Jackie Robinson a leader?

i never said it didn't have historical significance, but to say it has the greatest historical significance is just idiotic. you're completely disregarding other historical landmarks because you were obviously not part of them because you not around, you're simply basing your statement on your limited time on this planet.

To-MAY-To, To-MAH-To.....we agree to disagree.

[Bearshomer54 0]

BINGO!!! We have a winnah!!!!

 

Do you have white friends? Are they oppressing you? Still waiting on an answer or will you just continue to say blacks are oppressed with no concrete evidence to support it.

[VaTerp 0]

Do you have white friends? Are they oppressing you? Still waiting on an answer or will you just continue to say blacks are oppressed with no concrete evidence to support it.

 

I actually applaud you for asking these questions. Due to the efforts of many great people of all races Black Americans are no longer openly oppressed in the manner that they were up until the 1970's in many places.

 

However, the effects of 300 years of oppression are still impacting a large percentage of the black community. Among these are concentrated poverty, negative self image, and lack of real and PERCIEVED opportunity.

 

Like I said before we could discuss race in America all day but if you are truly interested in uderstanding the issue better I could suggest some reading material.

[Bearshomer54 0]

I actually applaud you for asking these questions. Due to the efforts of many great people of all races Black Americans are no longer openly oppressed in the manner that they were up until the 1970's in many places.

 

However, the effects of 300 years of oppression are still impacting a large percentage of the black community. Among these are concentrated poverty, negative self image, and lack of real and PERCIEVED opportunity.

 

Like I said before we could discuss race in America all day but if you are truly interested in uderstanding the issue better I could suggest some reading material.

 

Oh I agree... I think what you are saying is a different issue altogether. I think things are better for people living in poverty, but we still have a long way to go in the country. I think the issue is people living in poverty and being able to come out of it, not race.

[famousb 11]

Ok, so you expected to be taught this kind of sh!t in school.....now I understand. Have you ever seeked out this information, or do you simply expect this kind of info to be posted on roadside bulletin boards? Just curious.

fyi, the internet is not controlled by anyone - it's a free society of information. So if there is any information, true or not, proved or not, theory or not, etc... it's out there. so don't give the argument that it isn't published or available.

Additionally, very little of my knowledge comes from traditional schooling, as traditional schooling cares little about teaching children to think for themselves and draw their own conclusions based on relevant facts - it teaches them to spout off memorized information - Many of your statements show this spouting of memorized information is how you choose to draw your conclusions instead of clearly thinking and discerning answers for yourself. Your assumptions based upon others statements and thoughts show through all too glaringly.

 

There are countless definitive texts written on the subject, including the most popular "Civilization or Barbarism" by Diop. It's some deep, deep stuff in that book that references sh!t that some of YOUR white forefathers wrote. HTH

Diop did write that African society began in Egypt, and that it was in fact a black society. Additionally, Egypt is considered by many as the 'orginal civilization'. Civilization being defined as a having a definitive language, structure, and written recorded history.

But civilization is NOT what your statement was referring to, you clearly stated the first "inhabitant" of the planet earth was a "black female"... again i ask, are we debating based upon Creation, Evolution, or some combination thereof when establishing what, who, when, and where the first "inhabitant" of earth was? If you are simply going on conventional 'school taught' knowledge, than you should probably leave Diop's published (through translators) works about African history out of the discussion since common belief is that "man" originated in Mesopotamia (aka, the fertile crescent).

[RLLD 3,486]

African Americans have to continue the racism lie, its what gets them easy access to positions they have not earned, and opportunities they dont deserve.

 

Trust me, they will NEVER accept any notion that equality has been achieved, it is counter to their core interest.

[VaTerp 0]

African Americans have to continue the racism lie, its what gets them easy access to positions they have not earned, and opportunities they dont deserve.

 

Trust me, they will NEVER accept any notion that equality has been achieved, it is counter to their core interest.

 

Black Americans dont except that equality has been achieved b/c it HAS NOT.

 

And a big part of the problem is bigots like you who honestly believe that black people are inferior and not deserving of access to opprtunities for upward social mobility.

 

[phillybear 365]

After venturing to the Geek bored and reading some of the stuff over there it is very apparent that a large percentage of the posters on here are extremely prejudiced, bigoted, and/or misguided when it comes to the issue of race.

 

There are plenty of misguided people in this thread too. I can't believe someone thinks that being poor and white was not that big of a deal. Please.

 

It's all about money. Always has been. Always will be. If you want to do something with your life, you have to work hard. Roll up your sleeves and work 3 jobs. That's all there is to it. Race has nothing to do with it. No one is stopping someone from improving their standing in life. Work hard. Period.

[stosher1 0]

There are plenty of misguided people in this thread too. I can't believe someone thinks that being poor and white was not that big of a deal. Please.

 

It's all about money. Always has been. Always will be. If you want to do something with your life, you have to work hard. Roll up your sleeves and work 3 jobs. That's all there is to it. Race has nothing to do with it. No one is stopping someone from improving their standing in life. Work hard. Period.

 

Gee - it's that simple, huh?

 

There you go Mack, get a couple more jobs and racism in this country will end. It's up to you bro!

[RLLD 3,486]

Black Americans dont except that equality has been achieved b/c it HAS NOT.

 

And a big part of the problem is bigots like you who honestly believe that black people are inferior and not deserving of access to opprtunities for upward social mobility.

 

 

DING DING....we have found a racist people. I disagree with the propoganda, and therefore I am a bigot.

 

Sorry, you havent convinced me.

[phillybear 365]

Gee - it's that simple, huh?

 

There you go Mack, get a couple more jobs and racism in this country will end. It's up to you bro!

 

Yes, it is that simple. That's what I did.

 

Growing up poor, I started working when I turned 10, and haven't stopped since. And when your parents are Eastern European immigrants during a time when anti-Communism is running wild and people don't appreciate a Slavic accent, when most of your relatives are slaughtered by Stalin's minions and the rest mostly did not escape death camps, let's just say I don't really care about many Americans who whine about their problems. I had a lot of problems of my own.

 

Get over it, and work hard. That's it.

 

Edit: Life is hard. If anyone doesn't have a hard life, you got lucky; don't take it for granted.

[RLLD 3,486]

Yes, it is that simple. That's what I did.

 

Growing up poor, I started working when I turned 10, and haven't stopped since. And when your parents are Eastern European immigrants during a time when anti-Communism is running wild and people don't appreciate a Slavic accent, when most of your relatives are slaughtered by Stalin's minions and the rest mostly did not escape death camps, let's just say I don't really care about many Americans who whine about their problems. I had a lot of problems of my own.

 

Get over it, and work hard. That's it.

 

But I dont understand, if you were poor when you were young, how could you possibly be successful in life?

[Captian America 0]

I don't like to get into these types of discussion but I will ask one question if America is such a racist country against the blacks than how come a blackman can murder two white people (One a pretty white woman and the other a nice young man) out in California and walk away without being punished. I believe if our country was racist that person would have been hanged for his crime. Don't give me that crap if the glove don't fit you must aquit. If you can read this post you have enough intelligence to know he was guilty.

[RLLD 3,486]

I don't like to get into these types of discussion but I will ask one question if America is such a racist country against the blacks than how come a blackman can murder two white people (One a pretty white woman and the other a nice young man) out in California and walk away without being punished. I believe if our country was racist that person would have been hanged for his crime. Don't give me that crap if the glove don't fit you must aquit. If you can read this post you have enough intelligence to know he was guilty.

 

Its always been about opportunity, for years opportunity was denied to minorities (and nto just African minorities).

 

In the last three decades this country has made great strides to end this, and while there will be rare instances, the denial of opportunity is a thing of the past.

 

The rub being that now ANYTIME a minority is denied some opportunity, it must be racism. Its pathetic, but you have powerful groups that would not exist if this premise were not maintained, and so this will continue, without end.

[bassman82 0]

I don't like to get into these types of discussion but I will ask one question if America is such a racist country against the blacks than how come a blackman can murder two white people (One a pretty white woman and the other a nice young man) out in California and walk away without being punished. I believe if our country was racist that person would have been hanged for his crime. Don't give me that crap if the glove don't fit you must aquit. If you can read this post you have enough intelligence to know he was guilty.

someone said earlier that it is alll about money, a rich man gets away with murder, a poor man gets the death penalty. That said, although things are getting better in this country, indivduals are still racist, and that is terrible. The only reason i get tired on hearing about a coaches skin color, is because i feel that brings too much attention to the color of the coach's skin, and not enough attention to the person that he is. It is like saying Lovie and Dungy are the same person/coach just cuz they both have black skin. In reality, people are unique, and skin color is just one of many things that can add up to who a person is. Our society tends to judge based on looks, whether physical attractiveness, or skin color, and not judge based on substance, like what the person stands for and how they treat other people. We use the the word diversity to talk about people from all different backgrounds, but how about using it to talk about different types of people? Just because i am "white" does not make me the same as another "white" guy, just as two "black" guys are not necessarily alike. People should be judged based on what type of person they are. Too bad our country is so shallow, all we notice is appearances.

[treat88 0]

I think the greatest compliment that could be paid to Dungy or Smith is if absolutely NO mention was made of their heritage, but instead their individual talents and achievements were the center of discussion.

[A Dido Brother 0]

As a half Filipino/European citizen, until there is a Flip/Honky coach in the Super Bowl, I feel we will not have achieved true equality in this country.

 

You racist oppressors

[RLLD 3,486]

As a half Filipino/European citizen, until there is a Flip/Honky coach in the Super Bowl, I feel we will not have achieved true equality in this country.

 

You racist oppressors

 

 

[NAn 39]

Little late to the game but a few comments (with due respect for each one and coming from an Asian American):

 

BEARHOMER

I have to admit your initial statements I wanted to rip, but when you agreed about the money issue I understood you better.

 

With that said, you gave examples from your own experience, but much of it was 2nd, 3rd hand: They come in late all the time, but one white american calls in sick and he's fired...honestly, you think it's just that simple or were there likely other factors that are to be considered.

 

And we could go back and forth with examples both ways: you've been told if things equal managers would hire a black applicant over a white one...I've heard the opposite. So no white work peer has ever asked you for help re: their/your job? I've seen a white person ask manager at local eatery to use the bathroom and escorted back, then asked to use the bathroom an hour later and told can't have patrons use the bathroom b/c it's only for employees.

 

And though 'oppression' isn't that term I'd use, I'd still say there is discrimination out there...maybe not in every region, organization, etc. but still there nonetheless.

 

RLLD

 

You're probably right with 'AAs will never accept notion has been achieved b/c it's against their interest'.

Same could also be said though that white americans will never see that there is discrimination towards minorities b/c it goes against their core interest.

 

And again, due respect, but you say you won't buy into the 'propoganda' but go on to say 'ANYTIME a minority doesn't get an opportunity, it's b/c of racism'.

Those that cry racism are the ones that get the headlines, the 'propoanda'...the minorities I know don't pull racist card when they don't get a job or promotion.

My pt being, the propaganda goes both ways...no oppression and racism may not be rampant in EVERY organization, etc....but not ALL minorities pull race card either.

They...and pt where I think maybe gets many of us on the same page...look at what they need to do to improve their chances to get that job/promotion and work hard to make those changes, so the next time they WILL get the position.

 

 

OVERALL

 

Again, I'm Asian American and have seen racism and discrimination, but have been fortunate to work, live, patronize many places where I've seen little or no discrimination.

So agree it's getting better, but we as a country are not there yet by any means.

 

Frankly, I'm sick of ANY SB/Playoff hype about ANYTHING...the LT/Belichik thing, Brady is God, Manning getting to SB. It's arguably the biggest sporting event of all time and with 2 weeks to fill, the media will run with just about anything to fill their columns.

[Kingstowne Dealers 14]

Hmmm...interesting thread, "I'm gonna start a thread about a topic I think is getting too much attention, continue posting to it, thereby keeping the discussion going about a topic that I think is getting to much attention"