think this is true?

[wiffleball 4,646]

I was talking to this guy - pretty decent guy, very quiet, intelligent - an engineer from the UK - doesn't seem like the kind of guy to BS. Anyway, dunno how we got onto the subject, but he tells me that when airplanes crash, that all the victims become immediately decapitated. The force of the stop just rips their heads right off. (obviously, he's talking about a certain kind of crash - plane nosedives into water, mountain, ground -whatever) Futher, that's the reason they tell you to 'assume the crash position'. But, given the grisly nature of it all, It's just something that folks like the NTSB don't much talk about.

 

Sounds like an urban legend kind of thing, but given the source, I dunno. Seems fairly reasonable that if you suddenly stop at say, 800mph and your body is strapped in, but your head isn't that there'd be a pretty significant force.

 

Thoughts? Anybody ever die in a plane crash before? Did you lose your head?

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

I don't think that is the case. The reality is that the entire body would be moving forward (or backwards) and not just the head. This is not a situation where you have all of the body restrained and the head free.

 

From an anecdotal thing, I was listening to one of the guys that survived the plane crash where several members from Lynyrd Skynyrd were killed. The guys were not decaptitated, but died due to blunt force trauma to the head. The objects that killed them were not parts of the plane, but rather their baggage and items that they had not secured prior to the crash.

[wiffleball 4,646]

I don't think that is the case. The reality is that the entire body would be moving forward (or backwards) and not just the head. This is not a situation where you have all of the body restrained and the head free.

 

From an anecdotal thing, I was listening to one of the guys that survived the plane crash where several members from Lynyrd Skynyrd were killed. The guys were not decaptitated, but died due to blunt force trauma to the head. The objects that killed them were not parts of the plane, but rather their baggage and items that they had not secured prior to the crash.

 

 

But, if you're wearing your seat belt, your body IS restrained. I mean, if you get whiplash from the violence of a car crash.... Seems arguable, right?

 

didn't know that about Skynyrd.

[Vikings4ever 496]

Mythbusters did a thing on the brace position, if it's supposed to snap your neck on impact rather than protect you.

 

They said it's untrue, the brace position gives you a better possibility of survival. They also said the majority of people that die in plane crashes are due to fire and smoke inhalation, after breaking a leg and being unable to get out of the plane.

[Boz/BoFan 0]

Decapitation makes sense in commercial airlines but not in the smaller planes like the one Skynard was on. 800 mph with the seatbelt holding the majority of your mass will decapitate you. 800 mph is almost twice the speed of a .45 caliber bullet.

[Riddlen 1]

Mythbusters did a thing on the brace position, if it's supposed to snap your neck on impact rather than protect you.

 

They said it's untrue, the brace position gives you a better possibility of survival. They also said the majority of people that die in plane crashes are due to fire and smoke inhalation, after breaking a leg and being unable to get out of the plane.

this is true for car crashes too, if you can, get you feet off the ground ,dont brace them

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

But, if you're wearing your seat belt, your body IS restrained. I mean, if you get whiplash from the violence of a car crash.... Seems arguable, right?

 

didn't know that about Skynyrd.

 

You are restrained at the waist only. Your entire upper torso will be moving forward and you are far more likely to smack your head into the seat in front of you than being decapitated. This does not take much thinking to show that it is urban legend. It is all physics.

[Foghorn Leghorn 0]

You are restrained at the waist only. Your entire upper torso will be moving forward and you are far more likely to smack your head into the seat in front of you than being decapitated. This does not take much thinking to show that it is urban legend. It is all physics.

 

It is all physics, but I would argue that these are two heavy masses (the head and the torso) that are held together by a light mass (neck). Newton's First Law of Motion states "A body maintains its state of rest or of motion unless it is disturbed by external force". With a sudden stop (the external force), the torso is somewhat restrained by the seatbelt, but the head is held only by the relatively weak neck, so the head keeps going....

[parrot 789]

You are restrained at the waist only. Your entire upper torso will be moving forward and you are far more likely to smack your head into the seat in front of you than being decapitated. This does not take much thinking to show that it is urban legend. It is all physics.

This is kinda what I was thinking. Planes aren't all that rigid and will will absorb a lot of the energy of the impact and crumple before the neck would give way I would think, so you're going to die from being driven into whatever is in front of you.

[wiffleball 4,646]

Allright, somebody's gonna have to Cowboy Up and test this.

 

 

Wanna chip in and get GFIAFP a plane ticket?

[naomi 343]

It is all physics, but I would argue that these are two heavy masses (the head and the torso) that are held together by a light mass (neck). Newton's First Law of Motion states "A body maintains its state of rest or of motion unless it is disturbed by external force". With a sudden stop (the external force), the torso is somewhat restrained by the seatbelt, but the head is held only by the relatively weak neck, so the head keeps going....

 

sounds like a good thought.

[GobbleDog 816]

I don't know all the physics, but I just can't picture it happening. Two hundered people hitting the ground so fast that slow motion replay would actually show all their heads falling off the instant the plane hit the ground.

 

I agree with parrot. They probably die from being crushed by the seat in front of them - heads in tact.

[naomi 343]

other people discussing it

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

It is all physics, but I would argue that these are two heavy masses (the head and the torso) that are held together by a light mass (neck). Newton's First Law of Motion states "A body maintains its state of rest or of motion unless it is disturbed by external force". With a sudden stop (the external force), the torso is somewhat restrained by the seatbelt, but the head is held only by the relatively weak neck, so the head keeps going....

 

When was the last time that some of you folks were on a plane? There is all of 18 inches between you and the seat in front of you. Your seat belt is at your lap. There is NOTHING that the lap belt is going to do to prevent you from smacking your head on the seat in front of you. That is why they have you assume the "crash position" (Does anyone else think of Airplane! when they type that?).

 

There is also not going to be enough difference in acceleration between your chest and head during that 18 inches to make your head fall off. Debris, smoke, blunt force trauma and fire are what kills people, not your head popping off (IMO).

[Big Blue 06 195]

We got no food!

We got no jobs!

 

Our pets' heads are fallin off!

[wiffleball 4,646]

When was the last time that some of you folks were on a plane? There is all of 18 inches between you and the seat in front of you. Your seat belt is at your lap. There is NOTHING that the lap belt is going to do to prevent you from smacking your head on the seat in front of you. That is why they have you assume the "crash position" (Does anyone else think of Airplane! when they type that?).

 

There is also not going to be enough difference in acceleration between your chest and head during that 18 inches to make your head fall off. Debris, smoke, blunt force trauma and fire are what kills people, not your head popping off (IMO).

 

What if you were a midget?

[Dr. Rosenpenis 0]

No, you are not decapitated. Also, commercial planes don't fly at 800 miles an hour, that's greater than the speed of sound at sea level.

[Boz/BoFan 0]

We got no food!

We got no jobs!

 

Our pets' heads are fallin off!

 

LOL! my favorite part. Lloyd Xmas is the ballz.

[Chiefs04 0]

Decapitation makes sense in commercial airlines but not in the smaller planes like the one Skynard was on. 800 mph with the seatbelt holding the majority of your mass will decapitate you. 800 mph is almost twice the speed of a .45 caliber bullet.

 

 

I am very curious where you are getting 800mph from. Commercial airliners do not go that fast. The average cruise speed is 444mph and crash speed is less than that. No crashes have been reported in which the aircraft was traveling in excess of 600 mph. 770mph is the speed of sound and no domestic commercial airline would ever come close to that.

 

I have heard of this legend of decapitation, and I agree it makes sense from a physics perspective. I read a book entitled Stiff, by Mary Roach. This book describes all the ways cadavers are used in research. Part of this book describes, in detail, plane crashes. It details how a persons clothes can be completely removed from their body due to this force so I can imagine a situation where a decap may occur.

[Boz/BoFan 0]

I am very curious where you are getting 800mph from. Commercial airliners do not go that fast. The average cruise speed is 444mph and crash speed is less than that. No crashes have been reported in which the aircraft was traveling in excess of 600 mph. 770mph is the speed of sound and no domestic commercial airline would ever come close to that.

 

I have heard of this legend of decapitation, and I agree it makes sense from a physics perspective. I read a book entitled Stiff, by Mary Roach. This book describes all the ways cadavers are used in research. Part of this book describes, in detail, plane crashes. It details how a persons clothes can be completely removed from their body due to this force so I can imagine a situation where a decap may occur.

 

Wiffle said 800 mph. Though not likely and very rare, a perfect nose dive could appraoch 600 mph like you said. But at those speeds any crash is pretty much total body vaporization....i was just speculating that at the nano-second of impact decapitation may be the initial cause of death.

[Chiefs04 0]

But at those speeds any crash is pretty much total body vaporization....i was just speculating that at the nano-second of impact decapitation may be the initial cause of death.

 

 

Agreed...

[yostevo 0]

We got no food!

We got no jobs!

 

Our pets' heads are fallin off!

 

[veebs4 2]

It is all physics, but I would argue that these are two heavy masses (the head and the torso) that are held together by a light mass (neck). Newton's First Law of Motion states "A body maintains its state of rest or of motion unless it is disturbed by external force". With a sudden stop (the external force), the torso is somewhat restrained by the seatbelt, but the head is held only by the relatively weak neck, so the head keeps going....

 

Not only is PFB's response on point regarding the proximity of a stationary object in front of you to stop the forward "whipping" motion of you head, but think about the mechanics. When you are in an old car (with lapbelts only), and you stop suddenly, what happens? Your waist is essentially held in place, while your torso and neck want to go forward. Problem is, your torso is firmly connected to your waist, creating a pivot. So, instead of going forward, your torso rotates around the pivot (your waist at the lap belt). Your torso can only bend so far, then the flexion will be in your neck (thus, whiplash). In an airplane, the neck flexion won't be much cause you're only about 24 inches (in an arc-path) to the seat in front of you.

 

I would vote for "urban legend". But I would actually believe it more if airplanes had a shoulder and lap restraint.

 

Of course, in a nose dive, I think your body would become part of the "crush zone" of the plane, so again, decapitationis unlikely.

[SUXBNME 1,340]

I am very curious where you are getting 800mph from. Commercial airliners do not go that fast. The average cruise speed is 444mph and crash speed is less than that. No crashes have been reported in which the aircraft was traveling in excess of 600 mph. 770mph is the speed of sound and no domestic commercial airline would ever come close to that.

 

You are so stoopid

 

A 747's cruising speed is 575 mph

At sea level, the speed of sound is about 761 miles per hour

At 20000 ft, the speed of sound is 660 mph

The Concordes maximum allowable flying speed was 1330 mph

 

See how dumb you are?

 

 

 

 

 

you beat me to the punch on the 800mph thing

[TAS 2]

Flight 93 "nosedove", and was not going 600 mph.

[SUXBNME 1,340]

Flight 93 "nosedove", and was not going 600 mph.

You lost someone close to you on that flight, right?

[TAS 2]

You lost someone close to you on that flight, right?

My sister. We were told passengers were completely aware and conscious at impact, and the plane was traveling somewhere in the upper 500 mph range.

 

One of my first quesitons/hopes was that they were unconscious. Afraid not.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Wiffle said 800 mph. Though not likely and very rare, a perfect nose dive could appraoch 600 mph like you said. But at those speeds any crash is pretty much total body vaporization....i was just speculating that at the nano-second of impact decapitation may be the initial cause of death.

 

The planes don't crash at 400 mph. They slow down and attempt to minimize the impact. By the time that you hit the ground you are going much slower.

 

Maybe you could see something like this if you had a mid-air collision between two high speed objects. Given the infrequency of those situations and the fact that there are probably other items (impact, explosion, etc.) that would also cause death, I can't see this being proven easily (unless GFIAFP is willing).

[SUXBNME 1,340]

My sister. We were told passengers were completely aware and conscious at impact, and the plane was traveling somewhere in the upper 500 mph range.

 

One of my first quesitons/hopes was that they were unconscious. Afraid not.

Sorry to bring it up again, I just couldn't remember who the person here was that this happened to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On another note, I'll let you suck my cack sometime if you ever make it to NorCal

We can road trip up to Saw's house and kick her in the cooter in front of her neighbors

[TAS 2]

Sorry to bring it up again, I just couldn't remember who the person here was that this happened to.

On another note, I'll let you suck my cack sometime if you ever make it to NorCal

We can road trip up to Saw's house and kick her in the cooter in front of her neighbors

I'll take you up on the beer, not the cack sucking...but thanks!

 

I wouldn't want to ride a bike that far to Saws house!

[SUXBNME 1,340]

I'll take you up on the beer, not the cack sucking...but thanks!

 

I wouldn't want to ride a bike that far to Saws house!

What, you don't have a car?

It's not like I'd do the driving

 

If you are nice, I'll even let you pay for the gas.

[GobbleDog 816]

My sister. We were told passengers were completely aware and conscious at impact, and the plane was traveling somewhere in the upper 500 mph range.

 

One of my first quesitons/hopes was that they were unconscious. Afraid not.

Dude, your sister died in a big plane crash? Man, that stinks.

 

Can I ask what her flight number was? Did it have a 3 in it? Was the last number divisible by 3? Did it have 3 same numbers (flight 555) or 3 consectutive numbers (flight 567)?

 

Not that there's anything to it...

[Chiefs04 0]

You are so stoopid

 

A 747's cruising speed is 575 mph

At sea level, the speed of sound is about 761 miles per hour

At 20000 ft, the speed of sound is 660 mph

The Concordes maximum allowable flying speed was 1330 mph

 

See how dumb you are?

you beat me to the punch on the 800mph thing

 

I was using the average cruising speed of commercial airliners, NOT the 747.

 

At sea level, at a temperature of 21 °C (70 °F) and under normal atmospheric conditions, the speed of sound is 344 m/s (770 mph or 1238 km/h).

 

Using the proper formula(a= square of yrt, with y=specific heat ratio, r= specific gas content, t= atmospheric temperature) to determine air speed at 20,000 feet with consideration for air density in normal atmospheric conditions(air temperature, since altitude has NOTHING to do with speed), The speed at 20,000 feet would be approximately 707mph. You can also determine the mach speed accordingly, but one thing at a time.

 

You would not be able to reach the speed of sound at 660 mph until above 36,000 feet. This was proven several times, first by Chuck Yeager. And can be proven by basic physics calculation.

 

I never mentioned the Concord, but since you brought it up, the allowable speed may have been 1330, but the max speed was 1448mph.

 

There are several flight and physics related web sites I could refer you to, but you should probably start with Wikipedia.....since you obviously are remedial in this area

[SUXBNME 1,340]

I was using the average cruising speed of commercial airliners, NOT the 747.

 

At sea level, at a temperature of 21 °C (70 °F) and under normal atmospheric conditions, the speed of sound is 344 m/s (770 mph or 1238 km/h).

 

Using the proper formula(a= square of yrt, with y=specific heat ratio, r= specific gas content, t= atmospheric temperature) to determine air speed at 20,000 feet with consideration for air density in normal atmospheric conditions(air temperature, since altitude has NOTHING to do with speed), The speed at 20,000 feet would be approximately 707mph. You can also determine the mach speed accordingly, but one thing at a time.

 

You would not be able to reach the speed of sound at 660 mph until above 36,000 feet. This was proven several times, first by Chuck Yeager. And can be proven by basic physics calculation.

 

I never mentioned the Concord, but since you brought it up, the allowable speed may have been 1330, but the max speed was 1448mph.

 

There are several flight and physics related web sites I could refer you to, but you should probably start with Wikipedia...

 

That was your first mistake

[wiffleball 4,646]

Every so often I'm reminded of why this bored's called the GEEK club.

[Chiefs04 0]

That was your first mistake

 

 

No...I said YOU need to go to Wikipedia...since you have no clue what your talking about, or any sort of reading comprehension skill, and this information is far above your thinking grade. Let me break it down for you, elementary style. For the speed of sound to be achieved at 660 mph, the temperature of the air would need to be -70 degrees!!. Something your tiny brain may relate to is that skydivers jump from 30,000 feet all the time where the average temperature is -25. So you should stop using whatever elementary website you copy your facts from.

 

Here is a link with some basic info, although from the indication of this thread, it won't help you.

 

BASIC SOS CALC

[resser2 0]

Mythbusters did a thing on the brace position, if it's supposed to snap your neck on impact rather than protect you.

 

They said it's untrue, the brace position gives you a better possibility of survival. They also said the majority of people that die in plane crashes are due to fire and smoke inhalation, after breaking a leg and being unable to get out of the plane.

 

Good Call

I remember that episode. They did different crash positions at different heights...

[Chiefs04 0]

Good Call

I remember that episode. They did different crash positions at different heights...

 

 

Great show!!I remember that episode also, according to the experiment, the safest place on the plane was where the flight attendant sits, ..I think we can all agree that it doesn't matter how or why, if the plane crashes, your focked.

[Frank M 181]

I don't know about plane crashes, but in almost every case of suicide bombing where the bomber has explosives attached to their body, the force of the explosion rips their head off and sends it straight up.

[Chiefs04 0]

I don't know about plane crashes, but in almost every case of suicide bombing where the bomber has explosives attached to their body, the force of the explosion rips their head off and sends it straight up.

 

 

Now this sounds like the experiment to do with GFIAFP as the subject!