A deeper look at the Moss deal...

[TD Ryan2 316]

This does raise the question....who exactly will go over the middle for the Pats?

 

Ben Watson, Dave Thomas, Wes Welker, Garrett Mills, Kyle Brady, Kevin Faulk, and maybe Troy Brown... remember, they've drafted 17 TEs over the last 3 years... until now, all they've had is guys to go over the middle.

[markf 0]

not to contradict you parrot, but with the Colts, it's more about the Adalius Thomas signing.

 

I don't know what games markf was watching last year, but the problem was NE's LBers and secondary getting run all over the field by Peyton Manning.

 

With Maroney injured and Dillon old, and Faulk seeing an increased role, no NE didn't run very well in that game, but they didn't "pass too much" either... Brady had 36 attempts for 240 yards. I'd have loved to have Moss/Stallworth for that game... but more importantly, I'd have loved to have A Thomas.

 

Fair enough. No doubt Thomas would've made a difference. But the point I'm trying to make is that many of the defenses in the AFC have already skewed towards a stronger pass-defense due to the emergence of Manning/Palmer/Brady/Etc... And in the case of Indy, it's a strong ground-game that beats them, not the quick-strike passing attack that Moss/Stallworth bring to the table. Granted they will stretch the field which always helps. But few will doubt that the Indy D itself is built for stopping the air-game more-so than the ground game. That might be one of the reasons that many of the top-tier AFC teams are concious of the NE upgrades... but not quaking with fear like many NE fans feel they should be.

 

Again, just my opinion.

 

[JScott 20]

This does raise the question....who exactly will go over the middle for the Pats?

 

It won't be Moss or Stallworth. Neither will step up for the big hit...

 

Welker, Watson, Thomes, Brown, Faulk, Gaffney, Caldwell... The Pats don't run a lot of long crossing routes for their split out WRs. Mostly those routes are for the slot WRs, TEs and/or RB out of the backfield (or Vrabel in the endzone )

[parrot 789]

Criticism of KC vs. Colts: Passed too much. Left the running game.

Criticism of Ravens vs. Colts: Passed too much. Left the running game. (and McNair Sucks)

Criticism of Pats vs. Colts: .... etc...

 

You... did watch the playoffs didn't you?

Yeah I did, and I saw Bob Sanders give a lot of run support. How much run support you think he's going to be giving with Randy Moss on one side and Stallworth on the other? Deep threats also open up the running game.

 

I don't consider myself contradicted TD, I wasn't even really talking about the Pats/Colts matchup specifically, I was just responding to the silly idea that any opposing defense is going to see this as a good thing for them.

[football_scooter 0]

How much run support you think he's going to be giving with Randy Moss on one side and Stallworth on the other? Deep threats also open up the running game.

 

 

Well, since Stallworth will play at most 10 games for them before his hammies send him to the IR, probably a lot.

 

I think the Pats will have one of their worst seasons offensively. And no, I am not trying to stir the pot. I see this as hurting Maroney's stock.

 

IF Moss were an unselfish team guy, could block and wouldn't mind being the occasional deep threat to open up the run game so the Pats could scheme their offense for ball control, I'd agree - they would have improved from this deal.

 

But he isn't, wouldn't and won't. He'll want the ball more. When Brady makes his excellent reads and Moss is waving for the ball while double covered and Brady goes to Watson instead, there will be Randy Moss, in Brady's ear, chirping about how open he was.

 

Deal with that for 5 or 6 weeks and Brady will get sick of that sh!t but quick.

 

I see this as a terrible fit. I may well be proven wrong, but I'll cross that brigde when I get to it. For now I think the Randy Moss deal is a bad move by the Pats.

[Celticspride 0]

Criticism of KC vs. Colts: Passed too much. Left the running game.

 

 

Actually thats the exact opposite of what happened. All KC did was run, and obviously Indy dedicated itself to stopping LJ, and once th Colts stopped the run, KC had no Plan B. (Great gameplan, Coach Edwards)

[jgcrawfish 232]

The Pats just aren't a long ball team, I tend to agree w/ Scooter here that this pickup (or the stallworth one for that matter) don't make a lot of sense. Neither of those guys will go across the field, about this only thing this does is open things up for Welker/Watson to work the middle. And again, on what is the supposed to be the "ultimate team" team, both Moss, and Stallworth to a lesser extent, can, and probably will, cause issues with their me-first attitudes.

 

Bottom line is this: Pats fans are already counting their superbowl rings based on two players who weren't important enough for one nediocre and one really bad team to keep around. Playing for a good team can make you better, but attitude is what defines you.

[wiffleball 4,797]

Not sure if it's been posted - short on time - But the CW is that this is Bellichick's last year. They're blowing thier wad trying to go out on a high note. - Or, if they win, convince Belli to stick around.

[Celticspride 0]

The Pats just aren't a long ball team, I tend to agree w/ Scooter here that this pickup (or the stallworth one for that matter) don't make a lot of sense. Neither of those guys will go across the field, about this only thing this does is open things up for Welker/Watson to work the middle. And again, on what is the supposed to be the "ultimate team" team, both Moss, and Stallworth to a lesser extent, can, and probably will, cause issues with their me-first attitudes.

 

Bottom line is this: Pats fans are already counting their superbowl rings based on two players who weren't important enough for one nediocre and one really bad team to keep around. Playing for a good team can make you better, but attitude is what defines you.

 

They're not a long-ball team because they haven't had the personnel to go deap consistently. When they had a burner two years ago (Andre Davis), they threw deep a lot, but Andre Davis is hardly Moss or Stallworth, and therefore they didn't have too much success with the deep ball. But they threw deep to keep defenses honest. The lack of a deep threat this past season allowed defenses to play closer to the line of scrimmage and it made the 5-7 yard passes, that have been Brady's bread-and-butter for years, more difficult to complete. Just the threat of the deep ball should help the offense (short passing game and rushing game) because defenses will have to at least respect the threat. Now, its possible that Stallworth could be out for the year after week 3 and Moss flips his lid and gets cut or (you name the disasterous ending), but even if both of those things occur, they are no worse off than they were last season (when they were one 1st down from winning the AFC), and the Patriots team has enough experience and leadership to overcome a locker-room cancer, if Moss becomes that in New England. Now, I'm certainly not handing them the '08 championship yet, but I think to say "Moss and Stallworth don't fit" or whatever is just dumb. The only case that could legitimitely be made is because of Moss' character...

 

Not sure if it's been posted - short on time - But the CW is that this is Bellichick's last year. They're blowing thier wad trying to go out on a high note. - Or, if they win, convince Belli to stick around.

 

Belichick may or may not retire or leave the Patriots for another team after next season, but while he's stockpiling the roster, he's also setting up the Patriots in great position for the future- Next year they already have 7 picks in the first 3 rounds, including 2 1st rounders...

[parrot 789]

Last year the Pats were focked because they didn't have anyone who could stretch the field, now they're focked because all they have are guys who can stretch the field, even though they have a number of the same guys they had last year who couldn't stretch the field.

 

Was it overkill getting both Moss and Stallworth? Maybe. But the price was right on both and I think I'll reserve judgment until I see just how and if they decide to use them both.

[IGotWorms 4,063]

Here is Bill Simmons' take on Moss, in case you haven't seen it:

 

Maybe Moss isn't a brand-new Enzo, but he's definitely a Ferrari -- one of those with about 75,000 miles on it that you'd buy from a rapper who's going bankrupt. You're not exactly sure what condition it's in. It might be more trouble than it's worth. You have to keep it covered almost all the time. The parts are expensive. At the same time, it's a Ferrari and you're getting it at a discount, right? If you have the money and you always wanted a car like that, you have to make the deal.

 

...

 

 

The case for a Moss trade: They only sacrificed a second-day pick for him and could cut the cord at the first hint of trouble. The team looks so loaded, they could probably win a fourth Super Bowl with or without him. (I'm even getting, "Congratulations, you guys are the new Yankees" e-mails, which is funny because there's a salary cap in football.) Going from Collins/Brooks and Turner/Shell to Brady/Belichick, it's hard to imagine a better candidate for the Juvenation Machine in recent sports history, especially if Moss reins himself in like Dennis Rodman did in Chicago. For football purposes, he's the ultimate luxury -- a home run threat at an expendable position, a potential gamebreaker who makes the 2007 Patriots effectively unbeatable. You could even say he's a 2004 Ferrari Enzo with 90,000 miles on it.

 

I think its pretty spot-on.

[Belushi 9]

I just don't understand the criticism. They're not in salary cap hell. They got two potential studs at WR who, if they don't work out, can easily be cut. They've got plenty of guys who can go across the middle, and now they have a vertical game. What's not to like?

 

As for attitude, I don't know about Stallworth. But I think Moss will be just fine. Dillon was supposed to be a huge distraction too and it didn't turn out that way. Like Moss, he was just frustrated being on a losing team. Is it selfish to want to win? Yes. But when those guys are winning, they produce. I think Moss will be very well behaved because he's getting older and wants to win a Superbowl. And if he isn't, he's on the bench or cut. What's the problem?

[Sho Nuff 720]

he will do what it takes to win. And that is that...

jdon

 

Since when?

Even when I was excited that he may come to the Packers...I was cautious about his attitude on the field.

But when has Moss ever shown he just wanted to do what it takes to win?

 

Here is Bill Simmons' take on Moss, in case you haven't seen it:

I think its pretty spot-on.

 

Id love to dig up his thoughts on Randy during last seaosn...and every Pats fan for that matter.

 

I just don't understand the criticism. They're not in salary cap hell. They got two potential studs at WR who, if they don't work out, can easily be cut. They've got plenty of guys who can go across the middle, and now they have a vertical game. What's not to like?

 

As for attitude, I don't know about Stallworth. But I think Moss will be just fine. Dillon was supposed to be a huge distraction too and it didn't turn out that way. Like Moss, he was just frustrated being on a losing team. Is it selfish to want to win? Yes. But when those guys are winning, they produce. I think Moss will be very well behaved because he's getting older and wants to win a Superbowl. And if he isn't, he's on the bench or cut. What's the problem?

 

The problem with your thoughts is that Moss acted like that when they were winning in Minny too.

 

Like I said...I think less about him being any cancer as I simply have not seen him do the TO type stuff. But I also have not seen things from Moss that he just wants to win and would do whatever to win. He did not show that at all in Minny or Oakland.

[parrot 789]

Id love to dig up his thoughts on Randy during last seaosn...and every Pats fan for that matter.

I floated the idea of trading the first they got for Branch for Moss back in Oct or Nov I think.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

This does raise the question....who exactly will go over the middle for the Pats?

 

It won't be Moss or Stallworth. Neither will step up for the big hit...

 

So, Branch, Brown, Gaffney, Caldwell et al were big receivers over the middle?

 

(Well, maybe Brown might go over the middle but that is not his primary game)

 

The Patriots don't have that type of passing game. They run quick outs and they spread the field to get mismatches. This gives them the ability to have a vertical passing game, which will allow them to run more effectively and it gives them the opportunity to have a red zone threat. I would expect the Pats to have Brady act more like Manning (check the defense, call play at line, exploit mismatches) this season with this offense.

 

As to who will go over the middle... Ben Watson.

[parrot 789]

Well, since Stallworth will play at most 10 games for them before his hammies send him to the IR, probably a lot.

 

I think the Pats will have one of their worst seasons offensively. And no, I am not trying to stir the pot. I see this as hurting Maroney's stock.

 

IF Moss were an unselfish team guy, could block and wouldn't mind being the occasional deep threat to open up the run game so the Pats could scheme their offense for ball control, I'd agree - they would have improved from this deal.

 

But he isn't, wouldn't and won't. He'll want the ball more. When Brady makes his excellent reads and Moss is waving for the ball while double covered and Brady goes to Watson instead, there will be Randy Moss, in Brady's ear, chirping about how open he was.

 

Deal with that for 5 or 6 weeks and Brady will get sick of that sh!t but quick.

 

I see this as a terrible fit. I may well be proven wrong, but I'll cross that brigde when I get to it. For now I think the Randy Moss deal is a bad move by the Pats.

 

Since it's Bumping day.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

So, Branch, Brown, Gaffney, Caldwell et al were big receivers over the middle?

 

(Well, maybe Brown might go over the middle but that is not his primary game)

 

The Patriots don't have that type of passing game. They run quick outs and they spread the field to get mismatches. This gives them the ability to have a vertical passing game, which will allow them to run more effectively and it gives them the opportunity to have a red zone threat. I would expect the Pats to have Brady act more like Manning (check the defense, call play at line, exploit mismatches) this season with this offense.

 

As to who will go over the middle... Ben Watson.

 

[surferskin 31]

Since it's Bumping day.

 

that quote from cooter is sig worthy.

[Mackgee 0]

Stallworth and Moss both seem to be a poor fit for the Pats' offense. NE is run-oriented and relies on a lot of slants, screens and YAC. Stallworth and Moss are both soft, they don't like going over the middle and either can't or won't block. They also play pretty much the exact same game, so I'm not sure why they'd go after Moss after signing Dante for all that money?

 

They overpaid for Stallworth. Moss was worth the risk for what they got him for, but I suspect he is done. I don't think either of them will make a big impact this year.

 

bump for the idiot Eagles fan that he is. WRONG but hey you only come around when the weather is fair

[Ras66not99 0]

Since it's Bumping day.

yeah there's a lot of beauties throughout this entire article

 

[OakHeadFootball 1]

Well, since Stallworth will play at most 10 games for them before his hammies send him to the IR, probably a lot.

 

I think the Pats will have one of their worst seasons offensively.

 

 

I see this as a terrible fit. I may well be proven wrong, but I'll cross that brigde when I get to it. For now I think the Randy Moss deal is a bad move by the Pats.

 

 

[edjr 6,898]