remote controller 143 Posted June 12, 2007 I bet Fumble is peeing all over himself with that last pick!!!................not because of it being Portis. Fumble puts on his poker face and gets both the pklayers he wanted in rounds one and two......just backwards. I could hear him tripping and stumbling to his keyboard the minute I saw the Portis pick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Da Bomb 0 Posted June 12, 2007 looks like a good draft spot for fumble. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fumbleweed 547 Posted June 12, 2007 I wasn't too concerned about ted grabbing Manning on the turn as I know where my value of him lies in relation to most other people. Actually, I have bumped Manning down to 1.10 in value now, whereas I have Henry at 1.09. So, I actually took the highest player on my board in both cases. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan 66 Posted June 12, 2007 Just want you to know, Fumble . . . right now, I dislike you quite a bit. You were supposed to keep with the RB storm that so many fall into. Oh, well. Tarvaris Jackson is still there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remote controller 143 Posted June 12, 2007 I wanted Bush here, as I felt he was the perfect compliment to Rudi. He adds some explosiveness, and that offense proved it could feed RBBC effectively. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Da Bomb 0 Posted June 12, 2007 I wanted Bush here, as I felt he was the perfect compliment to Rudi. He adds some explosiveness, and that offense proved it could feed RBBC effectively. i was keeping an eye out there... wondering if you wouldve taken... you know... some other... high upside... young... rb.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Lou 0 Posted June 12, 2007 looks like a good draft spot for fumble. I was reviewing draft positions last night and found that the lower part of the order has great position. Those of us at the top will have to reach from time to time to assemble something decent this year IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FantasyKing 4 Posted June 12, 2007 Decided it was time to pull the trigger on the first WR, trying a little bit of a different draft strategy for a few reasons that I can say later - don't want to influence any picks. There's an obvious RB there who most would've taken, but I don't feel he will give you a win on any given week. The RBs left were mostly a question mark or a few decent ones that you know what you're going to get out of, personally I think CJ is going to blow up this year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remote controller 143 Posted June 12, 2007 i was keeping an eye out there... wondering if you wouldve taken... you know... some other... high upside... young... rb.... Bush got taken right out from under me in that draft, as he fell some. I had to go to the next back on my charts. The same thing WOULD have played out here, but I was pretty confident that Fumble was going QB. I was happy to see the Portis pick cuz that sealed the deal. I was reviewing draft positions last night and found that the lower part of the order has great position. Those of us at the top will have to reach from time to time to assemble something decent this year IMO. I see just the opposite and feel the top 5 slots are the place to be. At least according to what went down in the Jetdoc Mock. Decided it was time to pull the trigger on the first WR, trying a little bit of a different draft strategy for a few reasons that I can say later - don't want to influence any picks. There's an obvious RB there who most would've taken, but I don't feel he will give you a win on any given week. The RBs left were mostly a question mark or a few decent ones that you know what you're going to get out of, personally I think CJ is going to blow up this year. It was due, and you can't be faulted for it. It's always nice to be on the front of the next positional run. Let's keep this rolling men!!! Fumble, Did V4E leave round 2?? His post said picks?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 4,230 Posted June 12, 2007 I see just the opposite and feel the top 5 slots are the place to be. At least according to what went down in the Jetdoc Mock. I think there is something more to this. My perception is that if you are sitting at the 6th, 7th, or 8th pick.....try to trade out of it. The distinction in value at those slots is minimal compares to what you can get at teh 9th, 10th, or 11th position. The thinking being, you can get better value by giving up the 6th spot, for say the 9th and a later pick. In this way you have roughly equitable value for round 1, but you get an extra pick in say round 3 or 4 perhaps, where you can get Gates or perhaps another WR. Thoughts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Lou 0 Posted June 12, 2007 shot an e mail to V4E. It would be great to get 3 or 4 rounds in today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remote controller 143 Posted June 12, 2007 I think there is something more to this. My perception is that if you are sitting at the 6th, 7th, or 8th pick.....try to trade out of it. The distinction in value at those slots is minimal compares to what you can get at teh 9th, 10th, or 11th position. The thinking being, you can get better value by giving up the 6th spot, for say the 9th and a later pick. In this way you have roughly equitable value for round 1, but you get an extra pick in say round 3 or 4 perhaps, where you can get Gates or perhaps another WR. Thoughts? I will be fine at pick 6, though others might not want Rudi. After that I guess I want to be as close to the corner as possible, so what you are saying holds merit. I picked 9th in last years IBL and targeted Rudi. Trading out of the middle seems like a solid strategy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vikings4ever 550 Posted June 12, 2007 Here, I'll make the pick in a minute. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NAn 39 Posted June 12, 2007 I see RCs thinking with pairing steady Rudi with upside Bush, just not sure if I'd like Bush that early. Manning solid there, as was Edge at turn, it's Portis that I'm concerned with...huge risk reward IMO. Way this is panning out, more of what we've discussed before: having top3 picks has potential to be real big advantage as some nice players will fall to those spots in 2nd/3rd rnds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Da Bomb 0 Posted June 12, 2007 I think there is something more to this. My perception is that if you are sitting at the 6th, 7th, or 8th pick.....try to trade out of it. The distinction in value at those slots is minimal compares to what you can get at teh 9th, 10th, or 11th position. The thinking being, you can get better value by giving up the 6th spot, for say the 9th and a later pick. In this way you have roughly equitable value for round 1, but you get an extra pick in say round 3 or 4 perhaps, where you can get Gates or perhaps another WR. Thoughts? I actually, right now at least, think that the 6 spot is my favorite. You are almost guaranteed to get either Alexander or Addai, both in my top 4. Then in the 2nd, you're almost guaranteed to get one of my top 3 WRs (won't mention names other than CJ who is already gone). Then at 3.6 you should come very close to still getting in on the tail end of either the RB run or the WR run, from what I could tell in the jetdoc mock. I remember there being great value guys in the 3rd til about halfway through. Seems to me you get the right spot at the tiers all of the first three rounds. Heck, you're also set up pretty well at 4.7/5.6 to take one of the 3-5 QBs if they are your preference. Under that plan you would come away with a stud at each position plus a solid second at RB (3rd round) and WR (4th or 5th). You wouldn't be able to get a backup RB til the mid 6th (but there were solid backups I liked there in the rb crazy jd mock), and you would have to sacrifice either on TE1 or WR3, but it would make a really nice team overall. If I pretend that CJ is the 2nd round pick for the sake of relevent name dropping, let's say I build the team like this... (deleted)... wow I know it's not a certainty that a couple of those guys would be there, but man could I ever go to battle with that team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fumbleweed 547 Posted June 12, 2007 Guys, let's try to avoid discussing players that haven't been picked. It's just a good rule to follow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robb 81 Posted June 12, 2007 True to his word!! (I took Manning in the JetDoc at 2.05 position). Fumbleweed Jun 6 2007, 07:41 PM Post #18 FF Geek Group: Members Posts: 13247 Joined: 10-August 00 From: Ponca City, OK Member No.: 2372 I would have taken Manning as early as 1.08 (was 1.06 last week) in most drafts, but not this one as I would have been almost certain that he'd still be there at 2.04 since I know how you guys think. If I had taken Manning at 1.09, however, I would have had to go with my highest rated RB when 2.04 rolled around. I'm going to have to take a good look at this as the RB drop-off for me occurs before the middle of the second round. If I could get Manning-Henry or Manning-Maroney in the first two rounds, I'd happily do it. If not, it might serve better to leave Manning alone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Da Bomb 0 Posted June 12, 2007 No real problem with taking McGahee there as it's about the latest I could see him going, just not a guy I'm excited about. But Holy Jacobs Batman! Wow, top half of the second round for this guy! I'm not so sure on that one... looks like a pick where it only pans out if he definitely becomes the full time back in that system. That's a bit too risque for me, and I'm quite surprised to see him go this early. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you could've got a stud WR here and taken Jacobs at your next pick. Went 3.11 in jetdoc mock. Wonder what his actual ADP may be, probably somewhere in the middle. Guys, let's try to avoid discussing players that haven't been picked. It's just a good rule to follow. Sorry, I thought it would be ok with guys at least a round away in terms of discussing strategy, but I deleted the players I had listed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan 66 Posted June 12, 2007 No real problem with taking McGahee there as it's about the latest I could see him going, just not a guy I'm excited about. But Holy Jacobs Batman! Wow, top half of the second round for this guy! I'm not so sure on that one... looks like a pick where it only pans out if he definitely becomes the full time back in that system. That's a bit too risque for me, and I'm quite surprised to see him go this early. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you could've got a stud WR here and taken Jacobs at your next pick. Went 3.11 in jetdoc mock. Wonder what his actual ADP may be, probably somewhere in the middle. Sorry, I thought it would be ok with guys at least a round away in terms of discussing strategy, but I deleted the players I had listed. I actually thought your way for most of my time, but . . . I'm kinda watching the board here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fumbleweed 547 Posted June 12, 2007 Yeah, Jacobs was one of my targets at 3.11.....guess I can cross that one off. That's why I like this draft so much. It is far less predictable than the Jetdoc Mock. Always has been. I still do not care for Edgerrin James where so many are picking him. HE IS THE RUNNING BACK FOR THE ARIZONA CARDINALS. I feel fatigued from stressing this point. There hasn't been a successful RB in the desert now for over 20 years....and look at the carries Edge has on him. He's a third round value in my book. Love the Bush pick to go with Johnson, though. Those players look to be very complimentary pieces to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan 66 Posted June 12, 2007 I will add this, Bomb. I think that the job in NY is more Brandon Jacobs than Travis Henry's is in Denver. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fumbleweed 547 Posted June 12, 2007 Travis Henry ran like an absolute beast last year in Tennessee during the season's second half. I would be shocked if he doesn't earn a heavy workload in a VERY RB-friendly system. They don't want Cutler to throw more than 30 a game. They're gonna ride Henry like a wild horse. All they want out of him is a couple of solid years....then they'll discard him for someone else. He can give them that. BTW, Alexander-McGahee is a wonderful 1-2 punch for V4E, IMO. I'm not big on McGahee personally, but feel that Vikes has been the benefactor of a couple of RBs that fell much further than they were supposed to. I would be happy with that combination in spite of personal feelings about the RBs just because they came with such value. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 4,230 Posted June 12, 2007 I am not down with the Jacobs pick. There was better value available, and you could have had him later.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remote controller 143 Posted June 12, 2007 I have Jacobs higher than most and moving higher daily. He is in my top five 2nd round rb's. Drafting isn't about others expectations as much as it is about getting the team you feel comfortable with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan 66 Posted June 12, 2007 I think what I'm guilty of is misjudging others value of Mr. Jacobs. I don't think the points will betray me, but listening to this, I could have gotten him later. I think he'll outperform several taken in front of him. Oh, well. That's why this is June. We'll see how the season plays out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Da Bomb 0 Posted June 12, 2007 Fumble, what ranking is edge in your RB list? Third round RB means like 15-20th RB to me. A couple counter points to your arguments... 1) Look at the carries edge has on him... ** But Edge is still only 28 years old, so he hasn't hit that 30 year old wall yet, and he also missed a year and a half in there that did not take the toll on his body. He's also avoided that dangerous 400+ touches mark since early in his career (when he has the acl injury thereafter). As for number of carries, he has 2500 now. Some notable recent HOF RBs (like Edge IMO) include Cumar (3500), Bettis (3500), Emmitt (4400), etc. Also compare his about 7 seasons played and 2500 carries to guys like LT2 (6 years, 2000) and Alexander (6 years, 2000). Does that mean that this time next year you will be demoting LT2 and Alexander to the third because of age/carries concerns? 2) He is a RB for the Cardinals!!! **You're right, Arizona hasn't really had good RBs in the past 20 years. But they also haven't had a) RBs of Edge's caliber for most of that span, and good OLs either. Granted, they had Edge last year, but the OL was abysmal. Once they started to gel by the end of the year, Edge was a very good fantasy RB. Look at his December numbers. This year they added Levi Brown who will be a beast, and you simply have to take OL into account for RBs. Also, I just don't buy the "he is a RB in Arizona!!" argument. Atlanta had never had a good fantasy QB before, and Vick was a stud last year. The Colts never had a good fantasy QB before Peyton showed up, or WR before Harrison. The Eagles never had a great fantasy WR before TO. The Rams never had a good QB before Warner and then Bulger. The Bears never had a great fantasy QB before... ok, maybe some things never change. But many things do. Circumstances change. Arizona has never before had this coaching system, this good of an offense, this good of an OL, and this change of future, a glimmer of hope provided by Leinart's spark last year. Gotta roll with the times IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FantasyKing 4 Posted June 12, 2007 I agree with Da Bomb, and McGahee is who I was talking about as my other choice at 2.4 - I knew he would go next if I passed on him. I like him, and I think he will be pretty consistent but I don't feel he can carry you on any given week. I see a lot of just 70-90 yard rushing weeks with a TD scattered here and there. I just really don't like the Baltimore offense, but who knows, with him in there at RB it may turn the team around. Da Bomb is also making me rethink Edgerrin going into this year, I was really high on him last year and was disappointed. You can't let the previous year dictate the next though Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vikings4ever 550 Posted June 12, 2007 BTW, Alexander-McGahee is a wonderful 1-2 punch for V4E, IMO. I'm not big on McGahee personally, but feel that Vikes has been the benefactor of a couple of RBs that fell much further than they were supposed to. I would be happy with that combination in spite of personal feelings about the RBs just because they came with such value. Yeah, these are 2 RBs I'm not high on, but had to take due to value. There's another RB I considered with McGahee that's still falling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fumbleweed 547 Posted June 12, 2007 you could have had him later.... This is debatable. He went late in Jet's mock and you're saying he would have been available at 3.07..... If he's the top player on your board at that point, you should take him IMO unless you feel there's a 75% chance or greater that he'll be there at 3.07. I think the chances of him being there are less than that. So, while I don't have him ranked nearly as high as Dan, I can't ultimately fault the pick. Like remote said, good FF players don't go off of someone else's projections....they use their own. The only real mistake that can be made as such is when you indeed grab a player whose chances of being available in the next round run higher than 75%. I would put the likelihood of Jacobs still being there at 3.07 at 50%. Might've been worth the gamble waitng, though, like you and many others have said. Fumble, what ranking is edge in your RB list? Third round RB means like 15-20th RB to me. A couple counter points to your arguments... 1) Look at the carries edge has on him... ** But Edge is still only 28 years old, so he hasn't hit that 30 year old wall yet, and he also missed a year and a half in there that did not take the toll on his body. He's also avoided that dangerous 400+ touches mark since early in his career (when he has the acl injury thereafter). As for number of carries, he has 2500 now. Some notable recent HOF RBs (like Edge IMO) include Cumar (3500), Bettis (3500), Emmitt (4400), etc. Also compare his about 7 seasons played and 2500 carries to guys like LT2 (6 years, 2000) and Alexander (6 years, 2000). Does that mean that this time next year you will be demoting LT2 and Alexander to the third because of age/carries concerns? 2) He is a RB for the Cardinals!!! **You're right, Arizona hasn't really had good RBs in the past 20 years. But they also haven't had a) RBs of Edge's caliber for most of that span, and good OLs either. Granted, they had Edge last year, but the OL was abysmal. Once they started to gel by the end of the year, Edge was a very good fantasy RB. Look at his December numbers. This year they added Levi Brown who will be a beast, and you simply have to take OL into account for RBs. Also, I just don't buy the "he is a RB in Arizona!!" argument. Atlanta had never had a good fantasy QB before, and Vick was a stud last year. The Colts never had a good fantasy QB before Peyton showed up, or WR before Harrison. The Eagles never had a great fantasy WR before TO. The Rams never had a good QB before Warner and then Bulger. The Bears never had a great fantasy QB before... ok, maybe some things never change. But many things do. Circumstances change. Arizona has never before had this coaching system, this good of an offense, this good of an OL, and this change of future, a glimmer of hope provided by Leinart's spark last year. Gotta roll with the times IMO. What's Edge's longest carry last year? He's no longer built for big runs. He'll get you 4-7 yards when a hole is there, but that's about it. Unless Arizona has improved on defense, they're going to be playing from behind also.....not exactly the scenario in which James is going to excel. I don't see where trusting Edge is "rolling with the times". I see it as rolling the dice. Your theory about this being the year everything changes is based on nothing factual other than how he ended last season. And, he didn't end last season strong...just competent. He's a decent #2 RB in FF, in my mind, and nothing more. I have him ranked at #18....where most consensus polls also have him, for what it's worth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Da Bomb 0 Posted June 12, 2007 It's always interesting drafting when you can't trade. I will always respect the pick of someone who "reaches" a bit to get the guy they're sure they want than the guy who just takes someone who is there because they're not willing to go out on a limb a bit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Lou 0 Posted June 12, 2007 Had to go Smith there, he is in my top two early rankings. Others on the board looked nice, but I will take him pound for pound to show up every week. I think a nice value indeed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FantasyKing 4 Posted June 12, 2007 Please tell me Clash left a list - isn't he gone most of the day and more of a night poster? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 4,230 Posted June 12, 2007 This is debatable. He went late in Jet's mock and you're saying he would have been available at 3.07..... If he's the top player on your board at that point, you should take him IMO unless you feel there's a 75% chance or greater that he'll be there at 3.07. I think the chances of him being there are less than that. So, while I don't have him ranked nearly as high as Dan, I can't ultimately fault the pick. Like remote said, good FF players don't go off of someone else's projections....they use their own. The only real mistake that can be made as such is when you indeed grab a player whose chances of being available in the next round run higher than 75%. I would put the likelihood of Jacobs still being there at 3.07 at 50%. Might've been worth the gamble waitng, though, like you and many others have said. What's Edge's longest carry last year? He's no longer built for big runs. He'll get you 4-7 yards when a hole is there, but that's about it. Unless Arizona has improved on defense, they're going to be playing from behind also.....not exactly the scenario in which James is going to excel. I don't see where trusting Edge is "rolling with the times". I see it as rolling the dice. Your theory about this being the year everything changes is based on nothing factual other than how he ended last season. And, he didn't end last season strong...just competent. He's a decent #2 RB in FF, in my mind, and nothing more. I have him ranked at #18....where most consensus polls also have him, for what it's worth. Quality Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Lou 0 Posted June 12, 2007 he left his cell to either cal or text message. It is somehwre in a post......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FantasyKing 4 Posted June 12, 2007 Had to go Smith there, he is in my top two early rankings. Others on the board looked nice, but I will take him pound for pound to show up every week. I think a nice value indeed. Smith is tremendous value there, him and CJ are my top 2. I think those are the 2 that have the best chance of busting out 200 yards and 3 TDs on any given week. Hopefully Delhomme gets his head out of his ass this year and losing Meshawn doesn't hurt Smith too badly. he left his cell to either cal or text message. It is somehwre in a post......... Crap - I think that might be in the thread that remote accidentally deleted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remote controller 143 Posted June 12, 2007 I called him. It's in round 1 commentary page 2. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 4,230 Posted June 12, 2007 Please tell me Clash left a list - isn't he gone most of the day and more of a night poster? I thought the only thing Clash actually did in life was post here Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robb 81 Posted June 12, 2007 "The Colts never had a good fantasy QB before Peyton showed up" Ever heard of this guy called Johnny U?? (granted not in Indianapolis, but he was a Colts player!) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Da Bomb 0 Posted June 12, 2007 What's Edge's longest carry last year? He's no longer built for big runs. He'll get you 4-7 yards when a hole is there, but that's about it. Unless Arizona has improved on defense, they're going to be playing from behind also.....not exactly the scenario in which James is going to excel. I don't see where trusting Edge is "rolling with the times". I see it as rolling the dice. Your theory about this being the year everything changes is based on nothing factual other than how he ended last season. And, he didn't end last season strong...just competent. He's a decent #2 RB in FF, in my mind, and nothing more. I have him ranked at #18....where most consensus polls also have him, for what it's worth. I don't believe Edge has ever been built for the big run. It's not his game. He's built for plowing out those 4-7 yard runs all game long. Edge had a double digit yard run in 13 of the 16 games last year, and in the other three he had 8-9 as his high. In his previous two years in Indy, he had a game long in double digits 15 of 16 times in '05 and 12 of 16 in '04. Over those two seasons, he had a total of 8 carries over 20 yards and no carries over 40. No, he did not have any over 40 or even 20 last year, but it's not like you've suddenly lost a big part of his game. As for Arizona improving on defense... it's true they were putrid last year. It's also true that they were the #8 defense the year before with no huge changes. It's fair to assume that if the offense doesn't put them in so many holes, and if they have a decent run game / OL to keep the offense on the field a bit more, they ought to be able to at least be middle of the road. Finally, over those last five December games for James, he was averaging 92.3 yards rushing and 0.6 TDs. Average that out over a season and its 1500 yards and 10 TDs. Can't tell me that's "decent #2 RB" stuff. Add in a couple TDs and you get FWP last season, and he just went #5 overall. Your statement about my theory of this being the year everything magically changes in Arizona actually couldn't be more misled. I believe very strongly that the game is won in the trenches, and that the trenches are among the best indicators of fantasy success. They helped me to tag Chester Taylor and SJax as stars last year, guys who just ran behind the right line. Arizona this offseason made absolutely huge upgrades on the OL by adding Mike Gandy and Levi Brown. They also improved with beef up the middle of the defense by adding Alan Branch and Buster Davis. It's actually those additions, plus the confidence of Leinart and the new run-o-centric and win-o-centric coaching staff --- THOSE are the reasons I feel very strongly that this is the year Arizona really turns things around. They are real, concrete, exact reasons to me at least. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites