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It's not a smart thing, or an extra muscle thing, it's just variations of evolution. Once we embrace our differences ... but I am a fast, 200 lb white boy at 37 years old. Was faster and stronger when I was 18 and 185. Don't let those legends of "Man Strength" fool you. We're just more determined as we get older.

 

And wisdom is a real thing. Older and wiser. Late 30's really seems like a lucid time for me. I can see my life and the timeline with major events and see how I ended up ... the diplomat of the family.

 

I'm the smartest, strongest, youngest one.

 

My father and older brother both concede that I am smarter than them. Actually ... my older brother isn't smart enough to realize how much smarter I am than him .... but let's put it this way ... he taught me 5 card draw when I was like 7 and he was 13 ... and well let's just say ... he wont play me. I can read him too easy. He's my brother. An attorney, a good litigator, a smart guy ... but I'd take all his money and he knows it ... so he quit playin me. Years ago.

 

My father, a lawyer, told me when I was like 13 that he didn't want me to be a lawyer. Won a case in moot court in Jr. High.

 

It's a pretty good story actually. I'll never forget it.

 

1983, Mansfield Jr. High, Tucson Arizona

 

Mrs. C we'll call her was my Social Studies teacher. We had a court system to resolve teenage problems. So ... next thing I know .... this Mexican kid ... we'll call him Manny Vasquez ... says "I want him!" (for a lawyer) and points to me .... so we consult and he admits that he hit this girl in class ... but he demands that we claim self defense and that she hit him first (nobody was injured). He told me that she didn't hit him first, and I suggested that he plea .... but he was all "You are my lawyer, you gotta do what I say."

 

So, I got the girl on the stand, and I asked her what happened ... and she said they were arguing .. and then he "hit me back".

 

"Hit you back!? So ... you DID hit him first?"

 

Anyway, we won.

 

Born to be a lawyer ... too smart for that though.

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No but seriously, I do feel dumber for having read that.

 

And to think, he's teaching our youth...... :doh:

 

:wall:

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So .... let's be real ... it's not all racism ... white guys make better QBs.

 

Stats prove it.

 

On the same token ... Jason Seahorn .... rare white CB ... NOT ALL WHITEBOYS IS SLOW ... and he made one of the most amazing INT's ever!

 

There ... I said it.

 

I don't know why .... but it's true. White boys for the most part ... aint fast, but we are dedicated!

 

Marion Jones ... OMG! That's such a HUGE let down for America. Roids is a real problem.

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So .... let's be real ... it's not all racism ... white guys make better QBs.

 

Stats prove it.

 

The fact that you made this statement shows that you're either not as smart as you think, naive, or plain racist. The stats prove it? Stats don't prove anything other than: QB's 1-50 have better stats than QB's 51-100. You're the person putting color into it. The point is, there aren't enough stats to prove anything in the first place. I'd doubt your argument would be that white QB's have stronger arms, run faster, or just have better physical skills than black QB's. Is your argument that white QB's are smarter and can read defenses better? If so, you're full of it. Sounds like more racist crap to me.

 

:wall:

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I'm being objective.

 

Name the top 3 QBs in the NFL?

 

Name the top 3 RBs in the NFL?

 

Name one ... just one white CB in the NFL.

 

Cause most white men .... just can't run that fast. I'll admit it. I'm right here ... sayin that ... for whatever reason ... black men are faster, jump farther, higher ... and not because of conditioning or steroid use .... pure genetic advantage.

 

Is it racist for me to say that? Racist against who?

 

There are no Cheetah's in the UK.

 

Naturally anyway. That's a true satement ... but it could still plss off somebody.

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Also I don't believe anyone is any smarter ... besides the Asian's ... and they aren't dominating the NFL ... we all have different qualities .... and we should learn to embrace being different, and that's one of the reasons I love the NFL ...

 

It's like the greatest human science experiment, EVAH!

 

And there have been some HOF black QBs.

 

Warren Moon ... for instance.

 

So, is it society, marketing ... what is it?

 

I thought Daunte Culpepper was gonna be a greta QB ... all the right skills, never protected ... wasn't "groomed" right.

 

Let's put it this way ... when Buster Douglas beat Tyson, he just held in there ... he wanted it more.

 

Prolly fixed, Tyson looked tired from the start ... but the years before that, he had the best boxing coach and he won every fight, Tyson came out full speed ... there was a fear factor ... everyone thought Tyson was unbeatable. Baddest man on the planet.

 

I could be wrong but I think the Tyson vs. Leon Sphinx fight lasted like 36 seconds?

 

There was a time .... Mike Tyson was my idol.

 

Today ... I feel sorry for him.

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My Jewish Dad's athletic idol ... Jerry Rice .... ok maybe Joe Montana ... I'd say he'd pick Jerry. The GOAT ... he's a Niner's fan.

 

Yeah .... and y'all better stop calling Ladanian Tomlinson LT ... TAKEN!

 

HOF nickname

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Giants Fan, you never answered the question. You stated that white QB's are better than black QB's. How did you come to this conclusion? If you don't believe that white QB's are smarter than black QB's, than what is your explanation for whites being better?

 

Here's a better way to percieve things and a statement I would agree with. 'Tom Brady is a better QB than Daunte Culpepper.'

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Smart is the wrong word.

 

Name a black QB for the Giants? Second string even ..... can't think of one? Old school Giants Fans like me remeber suffering through QBs like Dave Brown .... and nobody wanted Randall Cunningham.

 

Mara was a racist.

 

Then again .... the best QBs in the NFl are white ... year after year.

 

And not a single white guy makes it as a NFL CB.

 

So .... there's gotta be something to that. Right?

 

Is it the system, the community .... I dunno ... but there's a lotta tall white guys that can't jump.

 

It's true.

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Giants Fan, you never answered the question. You stated that white QB's are better than black QB's. How did you come to this conclusion? If you don't believe that white QB's are smarter than black QB's, than what is your explanation for whites being better?

 

Here's a better way to percieve things and a statement I would agree with. 'Tom Brady is a better QB than Daunte Culpepper.'

 

 

Graph it yourself.

 

Sure you got your Ryan Leaf and you gut your injured Vince Young. Times have changed ... and that's a good thing.

 

But lets be honest, African Americans dominate Football, Basketball ... and now Golf.

 

Still, the most productive QBs in the NFL are white.

 

Product of the system? I dunno.

 

Name the top 10 QBs of all time .... Cunningham might be #10.

 

Name the top 10 RBs of all time .... they are all black.

 

Just how is that racist?

 

It's an observation. It's truth.

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It doesn't seem like you want to try and understand why your statement has racial overtones. It's widely known that over the last several decades there has been an unfair stigma about black QB's and how a QB needs to be smart to read defenses and make adjustments, and how they are not as smart as white QB's and therefore aren't as good. It appears you agree.

 

You orginally made a statement, not an observation, that white QB's are better than black QB's. Your reasoning is that black atheletes seem to be better than whites at RB, CB etc. and you just have to look at the NFL to show this. Your argument reasons the same must be true with the QB position since the best QB's of recent time appear to be majority white. Here's the problem. From what I've read, science has shown that, on average, people of african decent have a higher number of fast twitch muscle fibers in their muscles oppossed to people of other ethnic heritage. This would explain to some degree why many black atheletes excel in sports where these fast twitch muscle fibers would come in handy. Science can explain why many black atheletes would excel at RB and CB, but there is no science that backs your statement, nor are there any statistics. Are white QB's more accurate, smart, more poised, or have stronger arms? Are there any statistics to prove this? Simply saying to look at the NFL isn't enough to support your argument, and you can't reason if it's true with RB's then it's true with QB's.

 

Why are there more white QB's in the NFL than black? One reason, I would guess, it starts from early on in the development of an athelete and which ones are chosen to be QB and which are to be the RB. It also may have something to do with some kids having more opportunity than others, and may have something to do with the racial stigma in youth sports. It may also have to do with the educational opportunities some children have that others don't. One thing I do know is it's not because of skin color.

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the problem is and I saw it first hand. I went to a small school we had about 400 people in HS, 2 of which were black and athletes. One was 6'6 around 270 the other was 6'1 180 ish. If you were the coach what would you do. Yep the skinny one played WR and CB and the Big one was a DE

 

They were the best athletes and we certainly werent gonna put them at QB that would weaken the team

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Guest ramrock11

Name the top 10 QBs of all time .... Cunningham might be #10.

 

Name the top 10 RBs of all time .... they are all black.

 

Just how is that racist?

 

It's an observation. It's truth.

 

If Cunningham is the #10th ranked Qb

 

How can you say John Riggins isn't at least a #10 at rB

 

Go brian leonard and heath evans

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One thing I do know is it's not because of skin color.

 

For what it's worth, I've been reading reports recently where respected geneticists have concluded that white people are smarter than black people and Asians are smarter than both.

 

:music_guitarred:

 

Also, GFIAFP.

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For what it's worth, I've been reading reports recently where respected geneticists have concluded that white people are smarter than black people and Asians are smarter than both.

 

:music_guitarred:

 

Also, GFIAFP.

 

Any respected geneticist that has concluded that is currently out of a job for being a complete idiot. Just ask James Watson.

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. but I am a fast, 200 lb white boy at 37 years old.

 

you do realize that you've linked your picture to us a thousand times, tubby

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Its a tough argument either way. You could point at stats and say that obviously white QBs are better. But, Moon and Mcnabb, both of whom ply the position the RIGHT way immediately seem to go against that. However, recent black QBs to enter the NFL, like Vick and Vince Young might lend credence to that argument since neither one can read a defense and always look to run first.

 

Part of the problem is the media "ramming it down our throats" regarding black QBs.... I mean, everytime Vick or Young plays they go out of their way to knob slobber and make it *appear* that those guys can really play QB, but reality says they have no idea what the fock they are doing. Jamarcus Russel will be no different, he will suck.

 

I dunno.... I just wish the whole skin color thing would go away but it seems to be used when its convenient, like forcing teams to interview black coaches, but then they dont want to play the race card when they try to say "see, that black person succedeed all by themselves". In other words:

 

- If a black guy makes it in life, he did it through hard work.

- If a black guy ahs troubles in life, its because of whiteys oppression.

 

They have a built in excuse if they fail....

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It's not a smart thing, or an extra muscle thing, it's just variations of evolution. Once we embrace our differences ... but I am a fast, 200 lb white boy at 37 years old. Was faster and stronger when I was 18 and 185. Don't let those legends of "Man Strength" fool you. We're just more determined as we get older.

 

And wisdom is a real thing. Older and wiser. Late 30's really seems like a lucid time for me. I can see my life and the timeline with major events and see how I ended up ... the diplomat of the family.

 

I'm the smartest, strongest, youngest one.

 

My father and older brother both concede that I am smarter than them. Actually ... my older brother isn't smart enough to realize how much smarter I am than him .... but let's put it this way ... he taught me 5 card draw when I was like 7 and he was 13 ... and well let's just say ... he wont play me. I can read him too easy. He's my brother. An attorney, a good litigator, a smart guy ... but I'd take all his money and he knows it ... so he quit playin me. Years ago.

 

My father, a lawyer, told me when I was like 13 that he didn't want me to be a lawyer. Won a case in moot court in Jr. High.

 

It's a pretty good story actually. I'll never forget it.

 

1983, Mansfield Jr. High, Tucson Arizona

 

Mrs. C we'll call her was my Social Studies teacher. We had a court system to resolve teenage problems. So ... next thing I know .... this Mexican kid ... we'll call him Manny Vasquez ... says "I want him!" (for a lawyer) and points to me .... so we consult and he admits that he hit this girl in class ... but he demands that we claim self defense and that she hit him first (nobody was injured). He told me that she didn't hit him first, and I suggested that he plea .... but he was all "You are my lawyer, you gotta do what I say."

 

So, I got the girl on the stand, and I asked her what happened ... and she said they were arguing .. and then he "hit me back".

 

"Hit you back!? So ... you DID hit him first?"

 

Anyway, we won.

 

Born to be a lawyer ... too smart for that though.

 

 

You are not fast...quit trying to claim this.

You are not smart either from what I have seen on this board.

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My Jewish Dad's athletic idol ... Jerry Rice .... ok maybe Joe Montana ... I'd say he'd pick Jerry. The GOAT ... he's a Niner's fan.

 

Yeah .... and y'all better stop calling Ladanian Tomlinson LT ... TAKEN!

 

HOF nickname

 

WHy even bring up that your dad is Jewish?

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There are no white halfbacks (not fullbacks, halfbacks) in the NFL, either. It isn't a racist thing per say. White RB and Corners coming out of high school get profiled (as do black kids at various positions) and are for the most part transformed into TE and safeties.

 

Is the white CB gone for good?

Mark Kriegel

FOXSports.com

 

A week removed from Donovan McNabb's remarks about black quarterbacks, the nation prepares for another weekend of pro football, a game segregated by position.

 

For the sake of argument, consider the rule, and not the exception. Kickers and punters are white. Running backs (excluding the "throwback" blocking types) are black. Receivers are mostly black. Quarterbacks, as McNabb noted, remain predominantly white.

 

Still, a single black quarterback would be one more than the number of starting white cornerbacks.

 

"I may have been the last," says Jason Sehorn, who retired four years ago.

 

The last ever, he means. Sehorn, whose nickname among the Giants was "Species," now wonders if white cornerbacks are themselves extinct.

 

"Like the dinosaur," he says.

 

Then again, if in fact the white cornerback is a dead species, it wouldn't bother Sehorn too much. It is not, at least in his mind, a civil rights question.

 

"Being the last doesn't mean anything," he says. "It's not like being the first. It's not like I was a pioneer."

 

Sehorn, now an analyst for FOX Sports Net, considers black quarterbacks like James Harris and Doug Williams among the game's pioneers. He's more ambivalent on the subject of McNabb, who recently told HBO's James Brown that black quarterbacks "have to do a little extra" and that their white counterparts "don't get criticized as much as we do."

 

"As a journalist," says Sehorn, "the first thing I thought was, 'It's not the color of your skin. It's the city you play in.'"

 

Philadelphia, where it is brotherly to loathe, has the most notorious fans in America. Long before booing McNabb, they booed Santa Claus and Mike Schmidt. Sehorn — who notes that black quarterbacks have been drafted with the first pick in two of the last six NFL drafts (should've been three if the Texans had the sense to draft Vince Young) — ventures an educated guess that McNabb's comments are rooted in frustration, the voice of a man telling himself: "You take all this crap, and for what?"

 

"We played the Eagles twice a year and they never had a great wide receiver," says Sehorn. "But the one year they give him a great wide receiver — even if he was a malcontent — he gets them to the Super Bowl. And then what?"

 

Then he gets booed.

 

Still, as former player, there's something in Sehorn that feels obligated to qualify his answer.

 

"I've never been in McNabb's shoes," he says.

 

Translation: I've never been a black quarterback.

 

He has, however, been a white cornerback. And one can't help but wonder why the very idea has become such an anomaly. How many white kids from junior high through college were down-shifted, as it were, from corner to safety and from safety to linebacker in anticipation of a career at the next level?

 

Like most questions involving race and sports, these may be impossible to answer, but nevertheless worth asking. White cornerbacks lack the same historical baggage black quarterbacks have to carry, but by the same token, is there not a presumption against them? Didn't Jason Sehorn have to do "a little extra" to prove himself?

 

"No," he says.

 

His answer comes as something of a surprise. For a guy who grew up dirt poor without a father, Sehorn is devout in his belief that one should make his own breaks. It may sound naïve, but he considers professional football a meritocracy.

 

"I truly believe the best people play," he says. "No matter what color they are."

 

Sehorn played safety through his junior year at USC, and was projected as a safety when drafted by the Giants. He played two preseason games at the strong side position. By his own account, he was "awful." He was also bored.

 

"Sitting around doing nothing," he says. "It was mundane."

 

Finally, defensive coordinator Mike Nolan asked: "What do you feel most comfortable doing?"

 

"Playing corner," he said.

 

He believed he was a cornerback. And that's how he made his career, six years as a starter, the last white corner of any consequence since Atlanta's Scott Case back in the '80s. If a single play could illustrate Sehorn's virtues as an athlete, it would be his interception of McNabb in a playoff game on Jan. 7, 2001.

 

From Bill Pennington's story in the New York Times: "As McNabb let go of the ball, Sehorn, who had been retreating in coverage, broke forward and dived for the pass a few feet in front of (Torrance) Small. Sehorn got his hands on the ball, but he fell to the ground, rolling onto his back as he bobbled the ball. Lying on the grass and looking up, Sehorn batted the ball in the air, then caught it with two hands even as he was rising to run the other way.

 

"With the ball tucked under his arm, Sehorn quickly made a move to elude a Philadelphia lineman, then outraced McNabb to the corner of the end zone."

 

"I've never seen an interception like that," said Jim Fassel, the Giants coach.

 

"It was instinct," Sehorn said after the game.

 

Instinct? According to the ever-prevailing stereotypes, such instinct and athleticism is precisely what's lacking in so many white players.

 

Sehorn doesn't doubt that a form of prejudice, however benign, results in some white high school kids being steered away from positions like cornerback. Then again, part of the problem has to be the kids themselves.

 

"Some people are like sheep," he says.

 

You can't be a running back unless you believe you're a running back. Same goes for cornerbacks and quarterbacks.

 

"You have to believe in yourself," says Sehorn. "You have to believe that you can be the anomaly."

 

Some gray in black-white issue

Chicago Sun-Times, Mar 5, 2006 by Taylor Bell

 

Several weeks ago, a college recruiter called Aurora Christian coach Don Beebe to inquire about running back Matt Russell.

 

"Is he black or white?" the recruiter asked.

 

Russell is white. He is a 5-10, 184-pounder with 4.59-second speed in the 40-yard dash who has virtually no chance of scooting around

 

a sizable barrier that saw only one white tailback starting in Division I and none in the NFL during the 2005 season.

 

"I know how it feels," said Beebe, a 1983 Kaneland graduate, who played in the NFL for nine seasons. "I was a white kid from a small school, and I had to prove I could play with the big boys. I was a wide receiver who had to take a long route to the NFL. I had to prove myself.

 

"We live in a society where black athletes definitely are going to get the better look. I tell scouts: `Look at the numbers. Look at the 10- or 40-yard dash. Look at agility, vision in the open field. Look at the tape. Evaluate a kid not by the color of his skin but by his talent.' That's what I said about Russell. What does color matter?"

 

Russell is expected to sign with Grand Valley State in Allendale, Mich., the top-rated Division II program in the nation, in the next few days. It was the only school to offer him a full scholarship.

 

"I'm disappointed that he isn't going to a Division I school," Beebe said. "There is no question in my mind that he has the kind of talent to play tailback or safety in Division I. It is a sad situation, like the black man in society. We've come a long way since the 1950s in society and athletics, but we still have a long way to go."

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It's not a smart thing, or an extra muscle thing, it's just variations of evolution. Once we embrace our differences ... but I am a fast, 200 lb white boy at 37 years old. Was faster and stronger when I was 18 and 185. Don't let those legends of "Man Strength" fool you. We're just more determined as we get older.

 

And wisdom is a real thing. Older and wiser. Late 30's really seems like a lucid time for me. I can see my life and the timeline with major events and see how I ended up ... the diplomat of the family.

 

I'm the smartest, strongest, youngest one.

 

My father and older brother both concede that I am smarter than them. Actually ... my older brother isn't smart enough to realize how much smarter I am than him .... but let's put it this way ... he taught me 5 card draw when I was like 7 and he was 13 ... and well let's just say ... he wont play me. I can read him too easy. He's my brother. An attorney, a good litigator, a smart guy ... but I'd take all his money and he knows it ... so he quit playin me. Years ago.

 

My father, a lawyer, told me when I was like 13 that he didn't want me to be a lawyer. Won a case in moot court in Jr. High.

 

It's a pretty good story actually. I'll never forget it.

 

1983, Mansfield Jr. High, Tucson Arizona

 

Mrs. C we'll call her was my Social Studies teacher. We had a court system to resolve teenage problems. So ... next thing I know .... this Mexican kid ... we'll call him Manny Vasquez ... says "I want him!" (for a lawyer) and points to me .... so we consult and he admits that he hit this girl in class ... but he demands that we claim self defense and that she hit him first (nobody was injured). He told me that she didn't hit him first, and I suggested that he plea .... but he was all "You are my lawyer, you gotta do what I say."

 

So, I got the girl on the stand, and I asked her what happened ... and she said they were arguing .. and then he "hit me back".

 

"Hit you back!? So ... you DID hit him first?"

 

Anyway, we won.

 

Born to be a lawyer ... too smart for that though.

 

 

 

I'm impressed, please post you biography.

I need something to read in the shitter.

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It's not a smart thing, or an extra muscle thing, it's just variations of evolution. Once we embrace our differences ... but I am a fast, 200 lb white boy at 37 years old. Was faster and stronger when I was 18 and 185. Don't let those legends of "Man Strength" fool you. We're just more determined as we get older.

 

And wisdom is a real thing. Older and wiser. Late 30's really seems like a lucid time for me. I can see my life and the timeline with major events and see how I ended up ... the diplomat of the family.

 

I'm the smartest, strongest, youngest one.

 

My father and older brother both concede that I am smarter than them. Actually ... my older brother isn't smart enough to realize how much smarter I am than him .... but let's put it this way ... he taught me 5 card draw when I was like 7 and he was 13 ... and well let's just say ... he wont play me. I can read him too easy. He's my brother. An attorney, a good litigator, a smart guy ... but I'd take all his money and he knows it ... so he quit playin me. Years ago.

 

My father, a lawyer, told me when I was like 13 that he didn't want me to be a lawyer. Won a case in moot court in Jr. High.

 

It's a pretty good story actually. I'll never forget it.

 

1983, Mansfield Jr. High, Tucson Arizona

 

Mrs. C we'll call her was my Social Studies teacher. We had a court system to resolve teenage problems. So ... next thing I know .... this Mexican kid ... we'll call him Manny Vasquez ... says "I want him!" (for a lawyer) and points to me .... so we consult and he admits that he hit this girl in class ... but he demands that we claim self defense and that she hit him first (nobody was injured). He told me that she didn't hit him first, and I suggested that he plea .... but he was all "You are my lawyer, you gotta do what I say."

 

So, I got the girl on the stand, and I asked her what happened ... and she said they were arguing .. and then he "hit me back".

 

"Hit you back!? So ... you DID hit him first?"

 

Anyway, we won.

 

Born to be a lawyer ... too smart for that though.

 

 

 

STFU or I'll be on you like a spider monkey!

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I'm being objective.

 

Name the top 3 QBs in the NFL?

 

Name the top 3 RBs in the NFL?

 

Name one ... just one white CB in the NFL.

 

Cause most white men .... just can't run that fast. I'll admit it. I'm right here ... sayin that ... for whatever reason ... black men are faster, jump farther, higher ... and not because of conditioning or steroid use .... pure genetic advantage.

 

Is it racist for me to say that? Racist against who?

 

There are no Cheetah's in the UK.

 

Naturally anyway. That's a true satement ... but it could still plss off somebody.

 

 

No one's getting po'd. But, you are arguing from a false premise. "Race" is not a valid scientific concept; it has been thoroughly rejected and not for pc reasons. there were several humanoid races, by which you really mean 'species" or sub-species, but they have all been made extinct by the one that survived - us.

 

As for your theories on football (great stuff by the way, your comments are good ones, well thought out); a couple rejoinders:

 

- The greatest single half by any QB in Super Bowl history - Doug Williams.

 

- The most INT's by a Saints DB in a season? The record's held by a white guy. Same for the longest INT return.

 

- Also, Paul Krause, white guy, doesn't he still have the record for most INT's?

 

- Finally, a lot of these trends have a lot to do with who gets put where in sports growing up. look at the stats on centers, also mostly white - in fact nearly all (all but one or two) in the NFL are white. Why? I know being a center takes a certain amount of brains and team-coordination, but still, that's amazing.

 

- Do I deny that the perception of 'race' exists? That the concept does, and that it has very real effects? No. I also don't buy the sociological pc-bs about culture. I could go on; yes, there's something going on, but it's not 'race', perhaps genetics or culture play some part but it's not the whole deal. Maybe this has to do with the fact that I'm from New Orleans where people who look black can be 5/8's white and vice-versa, and people with the same last names can be black in one neighborhood downriver and white in another upriver.

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My father and older brother both concede that I am smarter than them. Actually ... my older brother isn't smart enough to realize how much smarter I am than him .... but let's put it this way ... he taught me 5 card draw when I was like 7 and he was 13 ... and well let's just say ... he wont play me. I can read him too easy. He's my brother. An attorney, a good litigator, a smart guy ... but I'd take all his money and he knows it ... so he quit playin me. Years ago.

 

 

In my book this makes him smart and you pretty good at 5 card draw. What's the big deal?

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