Let's try this again: Geek parents/uncles/aunts/etc.

[NAn 39]

Just looking for some insight and/or suggestions as I'm at a loss right now and remember when a Geek was having marriage problems (Burt? not sure) he posted here with philosophy: 'different people, different experience, different advice'.

 

First off nothing major like my daughter is rampaging and throwing things in classrooms or hurting others herself, but still as a parent, what she is doing concerns me.

 

Basically, daughter is 7, in 2nd grade, she's 1 of 2 children, but my son is only 17 months old, so till about 5 she was only child so may have some of that syndrome. Great student academically....tops in each grade level to date in math, writing, english, spelling, etc.

 

Problem is she's very dramatic and sensitive, so it's behavior issues. If I was to nail it down to one thing I'd say she was an 'extremist': when she's happy, she's a joy, gets real excited running, jumping around, getting loud (which is also sort of behavior thing but pretty common), but when she feels hurt or sad she gets to crying and screaming and the more I/my wife/anyone tries to calm her down, she just gets worse. I've done yelling at her, talking calmly, ignoring...she just won't stop and always comes back with 'I'm sorry daddy, are you mad at me?' And it's a cycle b/c I do get mad/frustrated, but not necessarily at what happened, but that she won't calm down about it, then I am mad, and she comes back with that and she won't stop crying b/c she thinks I'm mad at her, then she keeps crying, then I do get mad and so on.

 

I've been trying to talk her thru it, and if she continues I send her to her room till she calms down/stops crying. She usually does, we talk, crying still there but much more quieter and eventually she does stop. (thought I'd add this if it's important that after that she's laughing and jumping around again happy).

 

But can't just send her home at school...she ends up crying/screaming right there in class...teach has tried sending her outside but she's so loud and continuous that it ends up still disrupting the class and other classes. Of course, next and has happened a few times is sent to office...which happened twice this week which is why I'm writing now frustrated.

 

When I spoke with her teacher she says like happens once or twice a week...almost casually, which worries me as seems like teacher/classmates expect it.

 

Again a cycle: she says she starts crying, then other kids call her 'crybaby' and she cries more. Well Duh honey! Try stop crying and they won't call you a crybaby! I don't put it like that, but that's what I'm thinking.

 

What i'm doing right now is if someone or some situation is STARTING to get you frustrated either (1) step away from situation or (2)if can't just step away (like in class or assigned to be there) ask an adult for help to get you out of situation, at least for a little bit BEFORE blowing up.

 

I'm also trying the incentive thing: you want to go bowling/bookstore/whatever this weekend? Need you not to have a meltdown during week at school and then we'll go otherwise we won't, so hopefully you think about that BEFORE you start to meltdown (not so sure on this tactic honestly, but again...I'm at a loss).

 

Another factor is her best friend since kindergarten (they're also in girl scouts together)...they can get along so good....then push each other's buttons/hurt each other's feelings and her friend gets upset but not like my daughter...then when it is my daughter she has her meltdowns. then 5 mins later they're best of friends again.

(On this front, my wife has already made arrangements for her/my daughter/her friend/her friend's mom to sit down and talk things out. the mom is actually real nice and it actually won't be as uncomfortable as it sounds as the mom knows they're good friends too...just a matter of maybe setting some rules between them)

 

Just rambling obviously, so throwing it out there to Geek parents, Geek uncles/aunts, Geek counselors, Geeks...any input besides 'ringing the doorbell at my house and punching my daughter in the face when she answers' would be greatly appreciated.

[GettnHuge 2]

You let a 7yr old answer the door?

I think I see the problem...

[Snuff 10]

Is she spoiled? Not in a bad food kind of way, but in a "I'll get anything I want if I scream and cry" kind of way?

Wife's ex-boss' kids were the same exact way, and they spoiled the fock out of them, and also wondered why they acted this way.

[wiffleball 4,797]

That condition comes when you have ovaries - even small ones. - Get used to it.

 

 

- Or get her spayed.

[KingofBeer 0]

That sounds like a serious problem. You've come to the right place.

[Snuff 10]

That sounds like a serious problem. You've come to the right place.

 

[spottedowl 1]

See my response in your other post.

[NAn 39]

First off, thanks for all the shots in this thread and other one...got to laugh at these things sometimes.

 

Now stop it and seriously answer my frickin question.

 

Is she spoiled? Not in a bad food kind of way, but in a "I'll get anything I want if I scream and cry" kind of way?

Wife's ex-boss' kids were the same exact way, and they spoiled the fock out of them, and also wondered why they acted this way.

 

It's a fair question and one I've asked myself.

 

Again, she was only child till she was 5...actively tried not to spoil her.

 

She has good manners (says please, thank you)....when I say no to her getting something or getting her way, she shows disappointment but quickly gets over it and moves on.

 

She's a sensitive child and has these meltdowns, otherwise she's a good kid and good student.

[KingofBeer 0]

I have live in a condo development with a neighbor girl about the same age and acts the same way. The little b!tch is outside crying and yelling every morning when her dad leaves for work and it wakes me up about a half hour before my alarm clock goes off. I swear to fock one of these days I'm going to go outside and punch both the focking parents in their focking rude ass inconsiderate faces.

 

 

 

Does that help you out at all?

[TheNewGirl 1,638]

Just looking for some insight and/or suggestions as I'm at a loss right now and remember when a Geek was having marriage problems (Burt? not sure) he posted here with philosophy: 'different people, different experience, different advice'.

 

First off nothing major like my daughter is rampaging and throwing things in classrooms or hurting others herself, but still as a parent, what she is doing concerns me.

 

Basically, daughter is 7, in 2nd grade, she's 1 of 2 children, but my son is only 17 months old, so till about 5 she was only child so may have some of that syndrome. Great student academically....tops in each grade level to date in math, writing, english, spelling, etc.

 

Problem is she's very dramatic and sensitive, so it's behavior issues. If I was to nail it down to one thing I'd say she was an 'extremist': when she's happy, she's a joy, gets real excited running, jumping around, getting loud (which is also sort of behavior thing but pretty common), but when she feels hurt or sad she gets to crying and screaming and the more I/my wife/anyone tries to calm her down, she just gets worse. I've done yelling at her, talking calmly, ignoring...she just won't stop and always comes back with 'I'm sorry daddy, are you mad at me?' And it's a cycle b/c I do get mad/frustrated, but not necessarily at what happened, but that she won't calm down about it, then I am mad, and she comes back with that and she won't stop crying b/c she thinks I'm mad at her, then she keeps crying, then I do get mad and so on.

 

I've been trying to talk her thru it, and if she continues I send her to her room till she calms down/stops crying. She usually does, we talk, crying still there but much more quieter and eventually she does stop. (thought I'd add this if it's important that after that she's laughing and jumping around again happy).

 

But can't just send her home at school...she ends up crying/screaming right there in class...teach has tried sending her outside but she's so loud and continuous that it ends up still disrupting the class and other classes. Of course, next and has happened a few times is sent to office...which happened twice this week which is why I'm writing now frustrated.

 

When I spoke with her teacher she says like happens once or twice a week...almost casually, which worries me as seems like teacher/classmates expect it.

 

Again a cycle: she says she starts crying, then other kids call her 'crybaby' and she cries more. Well Duh honey! Try stop crying and they won't call you a crybaby! I don't put it like that, but that's what I'm thinking.

 

What i'm doing right now is if someone or some situation is STARTING to get you frustrated either (1) step away from situation or (2)if can't just step away (like in class or assigned to be there) ask an adult for help to get you out of situation, at least for a little bit BEFORE blowing up.

 

I'm also trying the incentive thing: you want to go bowling/bookstore/whatever this weekend? Need you not to have a meltdown during week at school and then we'll go otherwise we won't, so hopefully you think about that BEFORE you start to meltdown (not so sure on this tactic honestly, but again...I'm at a loss).

 

Another factor is her best friend since kindergarten (they're also in girl scouts together)...they can get along so good....then push each other's buttons/hurt each other's feelings and her friend gets upset but not like my daughter...then when it is my daughter she has her meltdowns. then 5 mins later they're best of friends again.

(On this front, my wife has already made arrangements for her/my daughter/her friend/her friend's mom to sit down and talk things out. the mom is actually real nice and it actually won't be as uncomfortable as it sounds as the mom knows they're good friends too...just a matter of maybe setting some rules between them)

 

Just rambling obviously, so throwing it out there to Geek parents, Geek uncles/aunts, Geek counselors, Geeks...any input besides 'ringing the doorbell at my house and punching my daughter in the face when she answers' would be greatly appreciated.

 

Isn't NAn a CHICKS name?

[NAn 39]

See my response in your other post.

 

I know a gal that is bipolar, so, you might look into that. She goes from one extreme to the other, with medication she is fine.

 

Our next step is counseling, seeing a psychologist to see into actual ailments or disorders.

 

My wife is a teacher though and has dealt with bipolar kids and kids with ADD, but she doesn't see this as the problem...that could be the parent in her.

 

I want to just say 'hyperactive'...but is that what's called bipolar or ADD these days?

[Snuff 10]

Isn't NAn a CHICKS name?

 

Did you HAVE to quote the whole focking post to post THAT reply? I mean...really?

[NAn 39]

Isn't NAn a CHICKS name?

 

LOL, long story TNG but suffice to say that I was inebriated when I actually signed up at FFToday after lurking for a few weeks, I typed in NAn somehow, it was accepted as a new registered alias and I just ran with it.

 

okay, so actually not that long a story

[Brad GLuckman 519]

Go to her room.

Take everything but the bed out.

When she whines, send her there.

Buy BOSE noise cancelling headphones.

Put them on while she screams in room.

[Brown Eyed Girl 1]

Our next step is counseling, seeing a psychologist to see into actual ailments or disorders.

 

My wife is a teacher though and has dealt with bipolar kids and kids with ADD, but she doesn't see this as the problem...that could be the parent in her.

 

I want to just say 'hyperactive'...but is that what's called bipolar or ADD these days?

 

These were my first thoughts after reading your post.

 

Her crying outbursts seem more along the lines of what would be expected from

maybe a 2 or 3 year old going through a tantrum stage - not from a 7 yr old girl.

 

ADD or ADHD might be a possibility and 'hyperactivity' was what I thought of when

you described her elated behavior when she is happy, in a good mood and all is well.

 

I would certainly check in with her Pediatrician and get his/her thoughts to at least rule

out any possible phychological disorders. With the proper medication, all can be kept

under control and life can be better for everyone in your home.

 

Good luck.

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 42]

Agree that she is likely spoiled. My daughter was (by my wife, not me) and acted the same.

 

That said, when I finally had enough of it I began to isolate her at the onset of each session. Kids do this for attention. When the result is the reverse, behavior ends. Tell them to do the same at school.

[TheNewGirl 1,638]

Our next step is counseling, seeing a psychologist to see into actual ailments or disorders.

 

My wife is a teacher though and has dealt with bipolar kids and kids with ADD, but she doesn't see this as the problem...that could be the parent in her.

 

I want to just say 'hyperactive'...but is that what's called bipolar or ADD these days?

 

 

Are you serious?

 

She's 7. And I think you know durned well that if you take her to a doctor, they will medicate her no questions asked.

 

I bet that it has to do with her being an only child for 5 years, and now having to share with a 17 month old baby. Not to mention the normal stressors of school. Poor girl.

[TheNewGirl 1,638]

I would certainly check in with her Pediatrician and get his/her thoughts to at least rule

out any possible phychological disorders. With the proper medication, all can be kept

under control and life can be better for everyone in your home.

 

Good luck.

 

I can't believe that you're advocating medicating a 7 year old with medications that she will grow dependent on and likely end up on them forever. Not to mention they jack with her normal hormonal system, and her metabolism.

[GettnHuge 2]

With the proper medication,

 

Niiiice, drugs. The worst solution possible.

When I was in skool, we had hyper crazy kids and you know what? They grew out of it.

They didn't need focking drugs. And our parents? they had focked up kids when they went

to skool too. And you know what happened? Those kids grew the fock out of it too. And their

parents...same focking story. But now with new medical technology we can invent a disorder

because we have these expensive mind focking drug that will calm the kid down.

damn i'm pissed

[hellothere 1]

i suggest you do a statisical study of how multiple years of heavy crying workloads has a correlated connection to break down in fantasy social 2nd grader groups. if she wants to be taken as a top flight fantasy recess player, she needs to score more points through quick burst long achievements. i.e. paper airplane attack, or coloring outsides the lines on purpose. the grind of crying tantrums really wears on a body, and though respectable for itself as a feat, and uping her draft status, will catch her in the long run.

 

 

 

really though, i feel for ya NAn, and i have zero kid experience so i went with the smarmy route instead. best of luck.

[devin952 1]

Im told they still make duct tape. Worked on my last vic..girlfriend, and may work for you too.

 

TnP

[TheNewGirl 1,638]

Niiiice, drugs. The worst solution possible.

When I was in skool, we had hyper crazy kids and you know what? They grew out of it.

They didn't need focking drugs. And our parents? they had focked up kids when they went

to skool too. And you know what happened? Those kids grew the fock out of it too. And their

parents...same focking story. But now with new medical technology we can invent a disorder

because we have these expensive mind focking drug that will calm the kid down.

damn i'm pissed

 

 

I agree.

[Snuff 10]

Yeah, I don't agree with the drugs thing at all. Too many parents nowadays go this route. More than half the kids don't need them. Fock, the drugs weren't around when we were all kids, and look how all of us geeks here that turned out normal.

[Mephisto 15]

At the risk of sounding insanely obvious... it's absolutely attention-getting behavior. It's also very, very, very likely due to the young one. I'm guessing you're also not very consistent in behavior modification methods.

 

Nutshell stuff that won't solve it overnight:

 

First - this sh!t needs to be done CONSISTENTLY! Not some of the time. Not most of the time. EVERY SINGLE FOCKING TIME NO MATTER HOW DIFFICULT IT IS.

 

When she has meltdowns:

 

- Send her to her room and don't even acknowledge her until she stops.

 

- Repeatedly and calmly tell her that you will not even speak to her until she gets control of herself and talks in a "normal voice." Ignore her (or send her back to her room) if she fails to follow that instruction.

 

- If she continues to escalate, take things away and KEEP them away. Escalate the sanctions. Take away special visits (this means you may have to cancel plans). Take away favorite toys. Favorite television shows. Snacks. Whatever.

 

- It's all about "talking in a normal voice." You must teach them that they don't have to scream to get attention and, if they do - they will only get ignored. But the point is, even yelling, screaming, beating, burning, whipping the child with an extension cord is attention. It's what she wants. Ignoring... isn't what she wants... but remember, always, each and every single time... remind her - "we talk when you get control of yourself and can talk in a normal voice."

 

These are the types of things that helped me with tantrum behaviors... but I started when they were TWO. At SEVEN... you'll have a tough time dealing with her behavior because she's at school and you guys have effectively established the appropriate behavior before now. (Of course, I'm not sure how long these meltdowns have been occurring, either).

 

------------

 

Root causes:

 

- You're probably not being honest with yourself in saying that you "actively tried not to spoil the child." I didn't see you say "she's not a spoiled child." Of course, even if you did, I would suggest that you take another look at yourselves.

 

- You're probably spending an appropriately high level of attention on the youngster... and she is feeling it.

 

------------

 

Counseling is nice at 7. Resist the urge to medicate her, though. You MUST try behavior mod techniques... and the one's I have suggested can be effective (assuming no medical/mental condition).

 

I've been using it with my kids since they were old enough to have meltdowns and it SIGNFICANTLY curtailed them. Even now, when they react strongly to something in frustration, I continue to use it... "we'll discuss it when you get control of yourself and can speak to me in a normal voice - in the meantime - in your room until you can do that."

 

In the early stages, I can't tell you how many times I would cart them up to their room... let them stew for 15... let'em out only to have to take them back up a few minutes later... let'em stew for 20... let'em out... up down up down up down... but fock, it's what you have to do so that they know PRECISELY what to expect when they do it.

 

You stated above, you usually try to talk her through it. DO THE OPPOSITE. Upstairs, in your room, get control of yourself. When you can speak to me in a normal voice, I will talk with you. I don't hear screaming. I don't hear crying. I only hear a normal voice from a girl who knows how to speak nicely.

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 42]

You can't be serious.

 

BTW, I don't believe in any kind of D, AD, HDAD. But, I do believe in BS and all these made up "disorders" are BS. I have told the story about the 8 yo I had on my LL team in here before. Long story short, told his Mom, no more drugs or keep him home. All aspects of his life improved immensely.

[GettnHuge 2]

Yeah, I don't agree with the drugs thing at all. Too many parents nowadays go this route. More than half the kids don't need them. Fock, the drugs weren't around when we were all kids, and look how all of us geeks here that turned out normal.

 

OH GOD, BEG IS RIGHT!

[NAn 39]

Thanks all...keep it coming.

 

in BEG's defense and to clarify my own position...I just stated that we'd discuss with a psychologist/counselor (pediatrician is a good idea too) to rule out or confirm if there is any diagnosable disorder.

 

not necessarily saying, even if that were the case, that we'd go to drugs.

 

I'd do my research (I've seen cases where medication has worked, some not. And mostly in extreme cases, which I'm trying to be objective about, but don't see it as case here) though and go from there.

 

My first thoughts were definitely finding a better way to communicate with her, understand her, find root of problem thru counseling and talking first though.

[Brown Eyed Girl 1]

I can't believe that you're advocating medicating a 7 year old with medications that she will grow dependent on and likely end up on them forever. Not to mention they jack with her normal hormonal system, and her metabolism.

 

If by chance his daughter is diagnosed with ADD, ADHD or one of the like, what would

an alternative be? Therapy may work on it's own without the introduction of meds and if

so - that would certainly be the best case scenario.

 

I don't know enough on this subject to speak intelligently on it so I'll just say this much:

I think that if given in the proper dosage and monitored very closely by her doctor, meds may be

beneficial in correcting her behavioral problems which are most likely being caused

by a chemical imbalance in her brain.

 

I have a nephew with ADHD so I know a limited amount of info in regard to what has helped him,

but everyone is different and what works for one may not for another.

 

Certainly not advocating the use of meds and IMO they should only be used as a last resort, if at all.

[Me_2006 14]

Have you asked her why she gets so upset? How bout offering up other ways for her to cope with the feelings she has? Does she like to dance or play with dolls or any of that other little girl stuff? If so, have her make up a dance when she starts to get pissed. Or have her go act out what's making her mad with her dolls instead. I hate to suggest the weird, hippie-ish "share your feelings" route but it beats medicating the kid out of her mind. Like you said, she's wonderful when happy, so instead of drugs to make her completely flat all the time, teach her to harness the strong emotions and turn the bad ones into good ones.

 

ETA: Also, have you talked to her much about the new baby situation? Actually, more importantly, have you listened to her about the new baby situation? Make sure you still make time for just you and her without the baby. Same with Mom. You guys probably have already done that, but maybe up the time spent with her or something because making sure she knows she isn't forgotten could help solve the problem. I'd also recommend that you have the "big sister" talk with her and explain how she can't act so out of control because that's being a baby and she has to be a good big sister, etc. If she's as smart as you said, and does as well and all those things, she'll likely welcome the responsibility of feeling like she has to set the example and should embrace the new baby and her actions should change too.

[NAn 39]

Kids do this for attention. When the result is the reverse, behavior ends. Tell them to do the same at school.

 

The teacher said something about attention.

 

Okay, think I'm a relatively smart guy so this may sound dumb, but really trying to understand: so even if it's negative attention?

 

B/c all it does is make me mad, make her teachers/classmates annoyed.

[wiffleball 4,797]

You stated above, you usually try to talk her through it. DO THE OPPOSITE. Upstairs, in your room, get control of yourself. When you can speak to me in a normal voice, I will talk with you. I don't hear screaming. I don't hear crying. I only hear a normal voice from a girl who knows how to speak nicely.

 

 

Everything Mephisto said is right.

 

 

She's got you trained.

 

 

Don't worry. Girls are good at manipulation. I swear to Gawd, it's some sort of genetic born at birth kind of things. Kind of like how Border Collies will nip at your heels like their great great great Grand-dog did with the sheep.

 

 

Time to un-learn some behaviors of your own.

 

 

[wiffleball 4,797]

The teacher said something about attention.

 

Okay, think I'm a relatively smart guy so this may sound dumb, but really trying to understand: so even if it's negative attention?

 

 

Yes. Absolutely. Attention is attention.

[GettnHuge 2]

If by chance his daughter is diagnosed with ADD, ADHD or one of the like, what would

an alternative be? Therapy may work on it's own without the introduction of meds and if

so - that would certainly be the best case scenario.

 

I don't know enough on this subject to speak intelligently on it so I'll just say this much:

I think that if given in the proper dosage and monitored very closely by her doctor, meds may be

beneficial in correcting her behavioral problems which are most likely being caused

by a chemical imbalance in her brain.

 

I have a nephew with ADHD so I know a limited amount of info in regard to what helps him.

 

You know what worked on the rest of us? The threat of getting our asses whacked by a heavy wooden

paddle with holes in it. I decided behaving was the smart move. Now that I'm a responsible member of

society, I can have my own paddle, and I use it on those who never learned their lesson. Like wimmen.

[mighty_thor 115]

I have a 2 year old and he acts the same way. I just ignore him when he has these tantrums and he gets tired and stops. It happens mostly when he is tired and wants something. If I tell him no then he cries. Mom sometimes gives in to him and I have conviced her that you have to be firm like i am. He doesn't pull it with me when I am alone with him. But because my wife occasionally caves in, he still does it with her around.

 

But for a seven year old to be doing that is pretty odd. Her behavior sounds more complex than a simple whining brat who wants her way. I think you need to talk to a pediatrician and get their recommendation on seeing a shrink. She may need some professional help. If she does the same thing at school then I am more inclined to believe that it is a deeper problem. If she only did it at home then it might be a cry for more attention from you.

[NAn 39]

Meph....good stuff thanks. I'll nevah advocate that FF is anything but luck again.

 

Probably right with the actively tried not to spoil her...honestly had it in back of my mind but she was first child for my wife and I after a miscarriage and after trying for a couple years so let me clarify: I actively tried to keep her in even ground with her cousins/other kids/etc. Like she would have to share, she would have to go by rules like everyone else. But likely did/do give her alot of things she asks for or wants. Honestly not all the time or for everything, but often admittedly.

 

Unfortunately behavior has been going on since about 4-5 so, not saying it's not a contributing or expasperating factor, but not so sure it's about the sibling mainly...been doing it since before he was born or even when mommy was pregnant.

 

Excellent pts with the consistency and just sending her to room till she calms down and then talk...that's the problem at this pt though as you pt out Meph...she's in school and it's not just as easy as just sending her out.

 

With that said, and not sure how the teacher/school would feel about it, but should I advocate my daughter just get sent to office to stay 'consistent' with the 'we'll talk when you calm down' thing?

[Brown Eyed Girl 1]

You know what worked on the rest of us? The threat of getting our asses whacked by a heavy wooden

paddle with holes in it.

 

Hey, I agree with this.

 

It certainly worked for me.

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 42]

The teacher said something about attention.

 

Okay, think I'm a relatively smart guy so this may sound dumb, but really trying to understand: so even if it's negative attention?

 

B/c all it does is make me mad, make her teachers/classmates annoyed.

 

Isolation is the removal of attention, not negative attention. HTH

 

Disagree with the counseling idea as well. That would only encourage her as it's extra attention.

[Snuff 10]

You know what worked on the rest of us? The threat of getting our asses whacked by a heavy wooden

paddle with holes in it. I decided behaving was the smart move.

 

Exactly.

When I acted up, my dad brought out the belt. He didn't even have to use it, when I saw it, I knew I had better behave.

Too many poosay BS in the country today. Keerist, you can't even smack your own kid's ass in public anymore, and if you do you go to jail. WTF is that BS?

[Quickolas1 80]

B/c all it does is make me mad

 

You're getting mad at a 7 yr old because she's always been spoiled and now there's a new baby and she doesn't get the same attention?

And then you yell at her?

 

Gee I wonder why she freaks out crying and yelling.

 

I noticed you said you get mad many times. Where would she possibly pick up this behavior from?!?

[NAn 39]

Everything Mephisto said is right.

She's got you trained.

 

this was a good idea as, yes, having to be a little introspective and hear objective takes and more I read and think about it...she likely does have me/wife trained.

 

probably knew this in back of my mind, but this all sorts of confirms it.

 

okay, there's some acceptance...now to do something about it.

 

thanks for all input again guys and gals...keep it coming.