Let's try this again: Geek parents/uncles/aunts/etc.

[NAn 39]

You're getting mad at a 7 yr old because she's always been spoiled and now there's a new baby and she doesn't get the same attention?

And then you yell at her?

 

Gee I wonder why she freaks out crying and yelling.

 

I noticed you said you get mad many times. Where would she possibly pick up this behavior from?!?

 

Wow, harsh, not sure if you're serious or baiting me...but either way, I'm laying things out here and asking for help.

 

Think it speaks for something as I know I'm not as bad as that sounds.

[Snuff 10]

Next time she throws a tantrum, get the Sam Kinnison face and scream back at her. SHUT UP! SHUT UP! SHUT THE FOCK UP!!!"

[NAn 39]

Isolation is the removal of attention, not negative attention. HTH

 

Disagree with the counseling idea as well. That would only encourage her as it's extra attention.

 

Really going to give the isolation thing a shot and also try to coordinate with school to see if same can be done first.

 

Then if no progress will likely do counseling, as concern I'm getting from several replies is this is more idicitive of a 2-3 year old, not a 7 year old.

 

And being close to situation don't think I'd know or admit of any 'issues' just be human nature, so an outisde objective source may be needed.

[Rusty Syringes 479]

Are you serious?

 

She's 7. And I think you know durned well that if you take her to a doctor, they will medicate her no questions asked.

 

No kidding. They didn't medicate you as a child, and look what a portrait of emotional stability you've turned out to be.

 

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 42]

NAn, you and your wife have a tough road here. Please note 2 things the Meph said that I didn't because he types faster and is not as lazy as I am.

 

It has to be consistent, both you and your wife, all the time, every time. And, if she attempts to remove herself from isolation before calming down, up the ante for her behavior. Then, if she starts whining about no SpongeBob for 3 days always have the same answer, "You were told, you didn't listen, if you bring it up again, it will be more days. Every time you feel bad about missing X, think about how it makes you feel the next time you feel the urge to have a tantrum."

 

BTW, I never sent my daughter to her room. There were toys there for her to play with. I would just put her in any adjacent room void of anything for her to play with. I also wanted her to see/hear other members of the family interacting normally. The more boring the environment, the faster she calmed down. She had to calm down to see/hear what others were doing. When in isolation, make sure that you don't even look at her.

[wiffleball 4,797]

NAn, you and your wife have a tough road here. Please note 2 things the Meph said that I didn't because he types faster and is not as lazy as I am.

 

It has to be consistent, both you and your wife, all the time, every time. And, if she attempts to remove herself from isolation before calming down, up the ante for her behavior. Then, if she starts whining about no SpongeBob for 3 days always have the same answer, "You were told, you didn't listen, if you bring it up again, it will be more days. Every time you feel bad about missing X, think about how it makes you feel the next time you feel the urge to have a tantrum."

 

BTW, I never sent my daughter to her room. There were toys there for her to play with. I would just put her in any adjacent room void of anything for her to play with. I also wanted her to see/hear other members of the family interacting normally. The more boring the environment, the faster she calmed down. She had to calm down to see/hear what others were doing. When in isolation, make sure that you don't even look at her.

 

 

....This would be your estranged daughter we're talking about?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just forking with you. You're right.

[Quickolas1 80]

Wow, harsh, not sure if you're serious or baiting me...but either way, I'm laying things out here and asking for help.

 

Think it speaks for something as I know I'm not as bad as that sounds.

 

i'm not being serious or baiting. i'm being overly dramatic as to how it might seem to a 7 yr old.

 

if it's even 10% of the way i described it, it might seem like a lot more to her.

 

most behavior is learned. if at the beginning of her tirade period you got mad and/or yelled and then consoled her afterwards, it probably rubbed off on her and hence cycle of she mimics you and then trains.

 

i'd say be firm with the isolation and train her that you're above her. not in a jerk sort of way, but to teach her to be calmer in the face of daily issues.

 

also, do you let her take care of the baby at all? for example, give her the bottle and let her feed the new one with you next to her. she might feel some more ownership and connection doing things like this with her sibling.

[NAn 39]

Big Dog,

 

Good pt on the distractions in her room, do have another room where there's none of that.

 

Definitely going to talk to my wife and get us both on board and emphasize importance of the consistency, plus speaking with teacher to see what can be done to keep consistency at school as well.

 

All above duly noted and greatly appreciated by you/meph/all.

[drobeski 3,061]

maybe she found out you're a raider fan

[NAn 39]

i'm not being serious or baiting. i'm being overly dramatic as to how it might seem to a 7 yr old.

 

if it's even 10% of the way i described it, it might seem like a lot more to her.

 

most behavior is learned. if at the beginning of her tirade period you got mad and/or yelled and then consoled her afterwards, it probably rubbed off on her and hence cycle of she mimics you and then trains.

 

i'd say be firm with the isolation and train her that you're above her. not in a jerk sort of way, but to teach her to be calmer in the face of daily issues.

 

also, do you let her take care of the baby at all? for example, give her the bottle and let her feed the new one with you next to her. she might feel some more ownership and connection doing things like this with her sibling.

 

My bad Quick...got a little defensive there.

 

Sound assessments on your part and something I do need to address as the upset, then consoling thing is something I didn't even realize and yes, seems to mimic what she does.

 

And she does help out with things with the baby and plays with him, but again solid pts that we could integrate.

 

Thanks.

[NAn 39]

maybe she found out you're a raider fan

 

Okay...really this time...you're dead to me Drobe!

[Brown Eyed Girl 1]

Are you serious?

 

She's 7. And I think you know durned well that if you take her to a doctor, they will medicate her no questions asked.

 

I bet that it has to do with her being an only child for 5 years, and now having to share with a 17 month old baby. Not to mention the normal stressors of school. Poor girl.

 

 

NewGirl, it's up to the parents discretion if they want her to go on meds or not.

They do not have to do any such thing.

 

The doctor will only make his/her recommendations and the parent's have the final say.

 

Her behavior is going beyond the stress/sibling rivalry of having a new baby in the house.

As described, she was acting out prior to her mom even becoming pregnant with the second child.

 

For her to be behaving this way at school as well (twice per week as the teacher indicated), there has to be a deeper problem going on with her.

 

JMO.

[wiffleball 4,797]

While Mephisto and Dog are of course, correct.

 

 

I've found that if you read her the story of Andrea Yates every night before bed, kids tend to get VERY obedient.

 

 

The only downside is, bath-time is a biitch.

[Me_2006 14]

While Mephisto and Dog are of course, correct.

I've found that if you read her the story of Andrea Yates every night before bed, kids tend to get VERY obedient.

The only downside is, bath-time is a biitch.

Well done.

[TheNewGirl 1,638]

NewGirl, it's up to the parents discretion if they want her to go on meds or not.

They do not have to do any such thing.

 

The doctor will only make his/her recommendations and the parent's have the final say.

 

Her behavior is going beyond the stress/sibling rivalry of having a new baby in the house.

As described, she was acting out prior to her mom even becoming pregnant with the second child.

 

For her to be behaving this way at school as well (twice per week as the teacher indicated), there has to be a deeper problem going on with her.

 

JMO.

 

 

Of course it's up to the parents. Never said that it wasn't. However, the medical doctor's are PAID by the drug companies and the more candy drugs they hand out, the more $$$ the doctors and the companies get.

 

I woudl think that diagnosing a 7 year old would be VERY difficult. I have been on these meds, and sincerely is ALL trial and error. Once you find a combo that works, it STOPS working after a short while due to chemical changes, and dependence. I went through withdrawal symptoms when I went off of mine, and I can only imagine what a child would go through. I would avoid meds for my children at ALL costs. I woudl change their diets, their sleeping patterns (going to bed earlier, getting up later, etc) and all other measures before I put those drugs into my babies systems.

 

Meph is abolsutely correct.

 

She's trying to get attention. ANY kind of attention is good attention for her. Why do you think kids act out in general? They are more apt to act out more if you aren't paying any attention to them. She was the ONLY child for FIVE years. And now, she has to share mom and dad with a TWO year old. I have a two year old, trust me, they are attention WHORES.

 

When my five year old son acts up, we do EXACTLY what Meph described. As soon as the tears and whining start, he gets sent to his room, we don't talk to him...."You know, I don't hear crying about blah blah blah...go to your room." If he cries while in his room, we close the door (he HATES that). So far, being sent to bed directly after dinner and removing him from a fun situation works awesomely, and most of the time, we have to only threaten to do it.

 

While talking to a counselor might be helpful, I would first do as Meph suggested and take a much closer look on how things are functioning around your home, esp with the baby. If daughter isn't getting enough attention at home, she WILL try to get it at school. I would most certainly discuss this with a pediatrician before a counselor as well, that's for sure.

 

And Rusty, suck it.

[VikesFan 1]

Just looking for some insight and/or suggestions as I'm at a loss right now and remember when a Geek was having marriage problems (Burt? not sure) he posted here with philosophy: 'different people, different experience, different advice'.

 

First off nothing major like my daughter is rampaging and throwing things in classrooms or hurting others herself, but still as a parent, what she is doing concerns me.

 

Basically, daughter is 7, in 2nd grade, she's 1 of 2 children, but my son is only 17 months old, so till about 5 she was only child so may have some of that syndrome. Great student academically....tops in each grade level to date in math, writing, english, spelling, etc.

 

Problem is she's very dramatic and sensitive, so it's behavior issues. If I was to nail it down to one thing I'd say she was an 'extremist': when she's happy, she's a joy, gets real excited running, jumping around, getting loud (which is also sort of behavior thing but pretty common), but when she feels hurt or sad she gets to crying and screaming and the more I/my wife/anyone tries to calm her down, she just gets worse. I've done yelling at her, talking calmly, ignoring...she just won't stop and always comes back with 'I'm sorry daddy, are you mad at me?' And it's a cycle b/c I do get mad/frustrated, but not necessarily at what happened, but that she won't calm down about it, then I am mad, and she comes back with that and she won't stop crying b/c she thinks I'm mad at her, then she keeps crying, then I do get mad and so on.

 

I've been trying to talk her thru it, and if she continues I send her to her room till she calms down/stops crying. She usually does, we talk, crying still there but much more quieter and eventually she does stop. (thought I'd add this if it's important that after that she's laughing and jumping around again happy).

 

But can't just send her home at school...she ends up crying/screaming right there in class...teach has tried sending her outside but she's so loud and continuous that it ends up still disrupting the class and other classes. Of course, next and has happened a few times is sent to office...which happened twice this week which is why I'm writing now frustrated.

 

When I spoke with her teacher she says like happens once or twice a week...almost casually, which worries me as seems like teacher/classmates expect it.

 

Again a cycle: she says she starts crying, then other kids call her 'crybaby' and she cries more. Well Duh honey! Try stop crying and they won't call you a crybaby! I don't put it like that, but that's what I'm thinking.

 

What i'm doing right now is if someone or some situation is STARTING to get you frustrated either (1) step away from situation or (2)if can't just step away (like in class or assigned to be there) ask an adult for help to get you out of situation, at least for a little bit BEFORE blowing up.

 

I'm also trying the incentive thing: you want to go bowling/bookstore/whatever this weekend? Need you not to have a meltdown during week at school and then we'll go otherwise we won't, so hopefully you think about that BEFORE you start to meltdown (not so sure on this tactic honestly, but again...I'm at a loss).

 

Another factor is her best friend since kindergarten (they're also in girl scouts together)...they can get along so good....then push each other's buttons/hurt each other's feelings and her friend gets upset but not like my daughter...then when it is my daughter she has her meltdowns. then 5 mins later they're best of friends again.

(On this front, my wife has already made arrangements for her/my daughter/her friend/her friend's mom to sit down and talk things out. the mom is actually real nice and it actually won't be as uncomfortable as it sounds as the mom knows they're good friends too...just a matter of maybe setting some rules between them)

 

Just rambling obviously, so throwing it out there to Geek parents, Geek uncles/aunts, Geek counselors, Geeks...any input besides 'ringing the doorbell at my house and punching my daughter in the face when she answers' would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

She's a girl, and an overly emotional one suffering from only child syndrome and taking a bit longer to get over it than you'd like. I'd advise against doctors. They will medicate her, and I highly doubt there is anything wrong.

 

I know it is harsh, but I'd recommend some harsh discipline (like a spank) when she throws those fits... and when she has the opportunity to throw the fits, and does not, then find a means to reward her behavior.

[Mephisto 15]

It has to be consistent, both you and your wife, all the time, every time. And, if she attempts to remove herself from isolation before calming down, up the ante for her behavior. Then, if she starts whining about no SpongeBob for 3 days always have the same answer, "You were told, you didn't listen, if you bring it up again, it will be more days. Every time you feel bad about missing X, think about how it makes you feel the next time you feel the urge to have a tantrum."

 

It only takes about two or three times of saying, "If you ask to come out again, I'm adding another 15-minutes!!!" before that stops.

 

God damn, I'm laughing just thinking about the sound of their little footsteps stomping back off to the bedroom with a diminishing Awwwwwwwwwwww... when the time gets added.

 

To this day, my miserable ex-wife never figured out why "the kids are always great with you but totally out of control when they're alone with me." That's because she's a knucklehead.

 

It's the same way today...

 

Consistency is the key... children find the chinks in the armor and if you open up a loophole, they'll exploit it.

 

And none of that "wait until your father comes home" sh!t, either!

 

And if you go for the dramatic change... stick to it for the worst part... easily a week of feeling like the world is going to cave in. It can happen that fast with structure and consistency.

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 42]

It only takes about two or three times of saying, "If you ask to come out again, I'm adding another 15-minutes!!!" before that stops.

 

God damn, I'm laughing just thinking about the sound of their little footsteps stomping back off to the bedroom with a diminishing Awwwwwwwwwwww... when the time gets added.

 

To this day, my miserable ex-wife never figured out why "the kids are always great with you but totally out of control when they're alone with me." That's because she's a knucklehead.

 

It's the same way today...

 

Consistency is the key... children find the chinks in the armor and if you open up a loophole, they'll exploit it.

 

And none of that "wait until your father comes home" sh!t, either!

 

And if you go for the dramatic change... stick to it for the worst part... easily a week of feeling like the world is going to cave in. It can happen that fast with structure and consistency.

 

We have soooooooo gone thru the same sh!t, it's unreal, even down to the Ex and how the kids act with each of us.

It is one of the reasons I decided to leave the Ex. And, leaving her is the main reason my daughter graduated college rather than the penal system.

[Mephisto 15]

We have soooooooo gone thru the same sh!t, it's unreal, even down to the Ex and how the kids act with each of us.

It is one of the reasons I decided to leave the Ex. And, leaving her is the main reason my daughter graduated college rather than the penal system.

 

Well, it's funny because I only recently finally got joint-custody (50/50) of my kids after a 3+ year war and spending every dollar I had (and then some).

 

Now, I'm sure some of this is making dad feel good, but it's amazing how I've never deviated from my disciplinary methods (for the most part)... and they say and seem to like being here... the home without video games... the home with discipline... the home with a certain sense of calm, structure, and expectations.

 

My goal is the same as yours was. I want the same end result but without all of the manipulation and abandonment except for when they want a hand-out, like your daughter does.

 

Of course, I'll probably still be a broke-ass b!tch then, too, so no worries!

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 42]

Well, it's funny because I only recently finally got joint-custody (50/50) of my kids after a 3+ year war and spending every dollar I had (and then some).

 

Now, I'm sure some of this is making dad feel good, but it's amazing how I've never deviated from my disciplinary methods (for the most part)... and they say and seem to like being here... the home without video games... the home with discipline... the home with a certain sense of calm, structure, and expectations.

 

My goal is the same as yours was. I want the same end result but without all of the manipulation and abandonment except for when they want a hand-out, like your daughter does.

 

Of course, I'll probably still be a broke-ass b!tch then, too, so no worries!

 

Sir, I commend you for both your attitude and your persistence.

 

I will always wonder whether I should not have divorced sooner such that my Ex could not have manipulated my daughter into believing that said daughter was the cause of the divorce which is the root of her alienation.

 

FWIW tho, your kids will be happier, more successful in all aspects of life and better off due to your tutelage. That is reward enough.

 

The calmest 2 weeks of the last 3 years of my marriage was when I sent the Ex and her mother to Poland.  When I came back from the airport, I gave them all daily chores and at dinner each night, commended them (individually) about how well they carried them out.  My Ex was actually pissed when she saw how clean the house was and found out how well everything had gone in her absence.

[shovelheadt 72]

Two choices...put the fear of god into her or ignore her when she freaks out. By fear of god, I mean make her realize she's going to lose something immediately whenever it happens. Bam...TV is off, music is off, toys are gone, her friend goes home, her ass is in the corner or somewhere where she can't have fun. This would flow over to school too. She has an episode in school....as soon as she walks in the door, let her have it.

 

Or you ignore it completely. Act like she's not even there. Maybe she's looking for attention. Good luck.

[Mephisto 15]

Two choices...put the fear of god into her or ignore her when she freaks out. By fear of god, I mean make her realize she's going to lose something immediately whenever it happens. Bam...TV is off, music is off, toys are gone, her friend goes home, her ass is in the corner or somewhere where she can't have fun. This would flow over to school too. She has an episode in school....as soon as she walks in the door, let her have it.

 

Or you ignore it completely. Act like she's not even there. Maybe she's looking for attention. Good luck.

 

I thought for sure that beating her with a rake and slamming her off the garage wall would make the list.

[NAn 39]

UPDATE

 

First off Meph, good to hear you have 50/50 custody with kids, sorry that your broke, but sounds like you don't regret the money spent since you have your kids more in your life.

 

And to you to Big Dog for you and your daughter.

 

Okay, so after put kids to bed last night, wife and I had talk and this is our tentative plan...will talk more this weekend, so wanted to let you guys know our thinking so far:

 

-Do the 'go to room (not her room BTW, thanks for that Big Dog) till you're ready to talk without crying'...remove the attention.

 

-Going to meet with teacher/principal (my wife is a teacher at another school, but has good relationship with principal b/c of local school events, etc.) to see if we could keep consistent at school as well. As in 'don't let her act out in class...just send her straight to principal's office or 'away area'. obviously, if she's still crying this is a great solution for wife/I so staying with 'consistency', but don't want to assume anything so want to get approval and/or input from teacher/principal.

 

-I know some have said don't do counseling...adds to attention...and we're not doing that at this pt, but my wife and I decided that she would have the sit down with her/daughter/daughter's best friend/her mom, so can at least get better understanding so not pushing each other's buttons so much.

 

Appreciate all the help and open to any thoughts onthe above plan.

[Mephisto 15]

I'm not averse to counseling, as long as you have the right counselor.

 

I took my kids, for a short-term period, in the aftermath of my mess, to a behavioral therapist who did a fantastic job (attempting to) teach my kids, mostly the older one, better methods of dealing with being upset/angry, whatever.

 

It's worked some, as have my efforts, but when they're with someone who often inappropriately flies into rages and responds to adverse situations in a high-strung, high-anxiety manner - you're just not going to make them perfect in every case. Even in an ideal situation - it won't be perfect in every case.

 

But demonstrating that you "mean business" and doing it in an almost pathologically consistent manner - works, absent some extraordinary outside factor.

[cmh6476 1,153]

just don't let her become a Raiders fan

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 42]

Good plan and GL, NAn.

[make me mona 0]

One thing to add - obviously I agree with everything Meph says as we parent the same kids the same way. However one thing parents often forget is to give POSITIVE ATTENTION when they do something right. So, you know the situations where she normally freaks out. You need to be on the lookout once you start the behavior modification routine for times that she responds appropriately and THANK HER AND GIVE HER ATTENTION. It doesn't have to be buying her something, it can be as simple as : "thank you for not crying/screaming and asking appropriately" and then give her a hug or suggest you play her favorite game with her, etc. First that shows that you are noticing the difference and will make her want to do it again, and second you are giving her attention that she needs, but in a positive way, not a negative way. We all seek attention, you just need to encourage her to do so in a positive way.

 

Also to reiterate, please don't try to talk her through stuff, she's 7, not 18. Talk afterwards, after she has calmed down, tell her why she had the consequence she did and what she can do differently next time. Give her the tools to say she's upset, or needs something from you, etc. She also needs to learn to apologize, especially in school. She is disrupting an entire class. If it was my kid, she would be up at the front of the class apologizing to everyone there. Kids this age often don't understand how their behavior impacts others, they need to learn this lesson or teenage years will not be fun for you.

 

A behavior chart might be a great thing at this age, set some goals for things she wants like that trip to the zoo or a small doll, etc, set up how many days she has to go without an outburst (still teach her ways to cope when she wants to outburst) and then track it and follow through with the positive goal she has chosen. I worked in a brain injury hospital writing behavior plans for patients and this stuff really works. (Imagine a 250lb 39 year old man acting like your daughter, ha, fun times!) Supernanny is a great tool for easy to follow guidelines as well, she uses a lot of charts, timeouts, etc.

[Giants Fan 85]

Can size?