kilroy69 1,252 Posted January 10, 2008 Strikeouts are the most meaningless stat in all of baseball if you're a pitcher. AN OUT IS AN OUT. HTH Not really. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mighty_thor 115 Posted January 10, 2008 Nolan Ryan 2795 BB 5714 SO = 2.04 SO to BBJim Palmer 1311BB 2212 SO = 1.7 SO to BB Tom Seaver 1390BB 3640 SO = 2.6 SO to BB Steve carlton 1833 BB 4136 SO = 2.3 SO to BB Cy Young 1217 BB 2803 SO = 2.3 SO to BB Not sure where you got your facts but he was far from wild and very durable. the problem with your ratio is that those guys were not just strikeout guys. Ryan averaged about 5 walks per 9 innings. thats a lot. I get my facts from the fact that I saw him pitch a ton of times. Sometimes he was unhittable. Sometimes he didn't last past the 2nd becasue he was so wild. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,629 Posted January 10, 2008 Not really. ah, so a strikeout isn't the same as a line drive in the gap the outfielder makes a nice catch on, or a pop up? Strikeouts are 2 outs in the books now? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mighty_thor 115 Posted January 10, 2008 This guy had ryan about right. Number 30 all time. I don't agree with all his ratings (Gibson too low and Gaylord Perry too high are the most obvious) but he has it pretty close. He rated a few Ryans peers above him like Plamer, Seaver and carlton. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
patweisers44 850 Posted January 10, 2008 ah, so a strikeout isn't the same as a line drive in the gap the outfielder makes a nice catch on, or a pop up? it isnt with a runner on third and less than two outs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kilroy69 1,252 Posted January 10, 2008 ah, so a strikeout isn't the same as a line drive in the gap the outfielder makes a nice catch on, or a pop up? Strikeouts are 2 outs in the books now? As mentioned a groundout to 2B with a runner on second (advancing him to third) or better yet a deep flyball with a runner on third (and less than two out) is the same as a strikeout in that situation? It gets in the other teams heads knowing that they are having a hard time even putting the ball in play. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrs_mercurymorris 0 Posted July 21, 2009 The time has come to honor Satchel Paige By Gordon Edes, Yahoo! Sports Jun 19, 8:32 pm EDT Buzz up!459 votes It’s time to retire Cy Young. I’m all for tradition, but baseball has more important people to remember than a man who began his career in the horse-and-buggy age. He’s had his name on the award for the game’s best pitcher for over half a century, plenty long to honor his place in the game. See ya, Cy. Let’s rename the award after a man who won more games than Young, struck out more batters than Nolan Ryan, pitched in at least twice as many games as anyone else, and had a persona that rivaled Babe Ruth’s. The name is Leroy “Satchel” Paige, and it deserves to be etched on a trophy that would guarantee he will not be forgotten.... .....Paige was elected to the Hall of Fame in 1971, the first Negro Leaguer to be so honored, and his statue can be found in Cooperstown as well. But his greatness as a pitcher, and legacy as the man who may have done the most to facilitate Jackie Robinson’s great leap forward, deserve to be remembered in more than just a museum. It’s time to start handing out the Satchel Paige Trophy, awarded annually to the best pitchers in each league.... FULL ARTICLE HERE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CantTouchThis 23 Posted July 21, 2009 The time has come to honor Satchel PaigeBy Gordon Edes, Yahoo! Sports Jun 19, 8:32 pm EDT Buzz up!459 votes It’s time to retire Cy Young. I’m all for tradition, but baseball has more important people to remember than a man who began his career in the horse-and-buggy age. He’s had his name on the award for the game’s best pitcher for over half a century, plenty long to honor his place in the game. See ya, Cy. Let’s rename the award after a man who won more games than Young, struck out more batters than Nolan Ryan, pitched in at least twice as many games as anyone else, and had a persona that rivaled Babe Ruth’s. The name is Leroy “Satchel” Paige, and it deserves to be etched on a trophy that would guarantee he will not be forgotten.... .....Paige was elected to the Hall of Fame in 1971, the first Negro Leaguer to be so honored, and his statue can be found in Cooperstown as well. But his greatness as a pitcher, and legacy as the man who may have done the most to facilitate Jackie Robinson’s great leap forward, deserve to be remembered in more than just a museum. It’s time to start handing out the Satchel Paige Trophy, awarded annually to the best pitchers in each league.... FULL ARTICLE HERE I was trying to look up stats, really hard because the negro leagues had very sketchy stat keepers i guess. The only stats i could find: 1943 wins, 104 losses 24 SO in a game(couldn't find any overall, judging by the single game stats, my guess is he averaged about 10 per 9 innings at least) 300 complete game shutouts None are reliable, but if those are remotely true, i would say Paige blows any other pitcher out of the water. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lindust20 2 Posted July 21, 2009 billy mays!! oh i thought you said pitchman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kilroy69 1,252 Posted July 22, 2009 I was trying to look up stats, really hard because the negro leagues had very sketchy stat keepers i guess. The only stats i could find: 1943 wins, 104 losses 24 SO in a game(couldn't find any overall, judging by the single game stats, my guess is he averaged about 10 per 9 innings at least) 300 complete game shutouts None are reliable, but if those are remotely true, i would say Paige blows any other pitcher out of the water. Word is he pitchd fireballs and lightning bolts shot from his eyes. sorry. While he may have been a hell of a pitcher none of the stats can be verified and have probably been skewed by both time and memory by now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CantTouchThis 23 Posted July 22, 2009 Word is he pitchd fireballs and lightning bolts shot from his eyes. sorry. While he may have been a hell of a pitcher none of the stats can be verified and have probably been skewed by both time and memory by now. This is true, just seeing those stats, though probably far from the truth, are still insane. Even if they are 1/2 what is stated, he will still be the best ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZeroTolerance 584 Posted July 22, 2009 Grew up a huge Nolan Ryan fan, but no, he is not the greatest ever. Was he, on any given night, the most dominating pitcher ever? Yes. The ridiculous number of no-hitters/1-hitters/2-hitters he threw, the unimaginable strikeout total, and the longevity he possessed make him a great pitcher and the best strikeout pitcher ever, but he also holds the mark for most walks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pimptastic69 0 Posted July 22, 2009 Grew up a huge Nolan Ryan fan, but no, he is not the greatest ever. Was he, on any given night, the most dominating pitcher ever? Yes. The ridiculous number of no-hitters/1-hitters/2-hitters he threw, the unimaginable strikeout total, and the longevity he possessed make him a great pitcher and the best strikeout pitcher ever, but he also holds the mark for most walks. Yeah, but he always gets an extra notch because of the Robin Ventura thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Moz 69 Posted July 22, 2009 The time has come to honor Satchel PaigeBy Gordon Edes, Yahoo! Sports Jun 19, 8:32 pm EDT Buzz up!459 votes It’s time to retire Cy Young. I’m all for tradition, but baseball has more important people to remember than a man who began his career in the horse-and-buggy age. He’s had his name on the award for the game’s best pitcher for over half a century, plenty long to honor his place in the game. See ya, Cy. Let’s rename the award after a man who won more games than Young, struck out more batters than Nolan Ryan, pitched in at least twice as many games as anyone else, and had a persona that rivaled Babe Ruth’s. The name is Leroy “Satchel” Paige, and it deserves to be etched on a trophy that would guarantee he will not be forgotten.... .....Paige was elected to the Hall of Fame in 1971, the first Negro Leaguer to be so honored, and his statue can be found in Cooperstown as well. But his greatness as a pitcher, and legacy as the man who may have done the most to facilitate Jackie Robinson’s great leap forward, deserve to be remembered in more than just a museum. It’s time to start handing out the Satchel Paige Trophy, awarded annually to the best pitchers in each league.... FULL ARTICLE HERE Would have been great to see what he woulda done in the majors -- To bad he only got to play a few seasons. Same with Josh Gibson who might of been known as the greatest power hitter ever had he got a chance to play. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,629 Posted July 22, 2009 Yeah, but he always gets an extra notch because he probably used steroids, seeing no other pitcher but Clemens pitched into his 40's throwing gas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,629 Posted July 22, 2009 Would have been great to see what he woulda done in the majors -- To bad he only got to play a few seasons. Same with Josh Gibson who might of been known as the greatest power hitter ever had he got a chance to play. This is why all records before blacks were fully allowed to play aren't relevant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Ryan2 316 Posted July 22, 2009 Koufax and Pedro were the same pitcher to me. Either had arguably the greatest 3 (or so ) season stretch. so when we say Greatest, what are the criteria? longevity? strikeouts? wins? championships? steroids? ERA? maybe oldnews, but still funny to me and relevant to this thread: why haven't we had any great Middle Eastern pitchers? Seriously, they've been throwing rocks for 4,000 years, you'd think one could at least pitch? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,629 Posted July 22, 2009 Koufax and Pedro were the same pitcher to me.Either had arguably the greatest 3 (or so ) season stretch. so when we say Greatest, what are the criteria? longevity? strikeouts? wins? championships? steroids? ERA? maybe oldnews, but still funny to me and relevant to this thread: why haven't we had any great middle eastern pitchers? Seriously, they've been throwing rocks for 4,000 years, you'd think one could at least pitch? Racist Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surferskin 30 Posted July 22, 2009 This is why all records before blacks were fully allowed to play aren't relevant. Yeah, I'm sure he was better than Babe Ruth because some old black guys say he was. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kilroy69 1,252 Posted July 22, 2009 Yeah, I'm sure he was better than Babe Ruth because some old black guys say he was. Exactly. Some old black guy that can't back up the stats with anything other than "i saw satch throw a 29 inning game with 40 k's." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost to the Post 2 Posted July 23, 2009 Nolan never had a 20 win season. So he cant be the greatest. Now Steve Carlton he is the greatest lefty. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
