Matt Cassel Traded To KC

[cmh6476 774]

what will be itneresting to watch now, is whether the Chiefs re-work a new deal for Cassel. That will really tell us all how much faith Pioli has in his guy. If they work it where he ends up witha 5 year deal, it's pretty clear. If they let him play out the 1-year franchise tender, then he still has something left to prove, but then that also leaves KC fighting with other clubs to retain his services next season.

[jgcrawfish 232]

what will be itneresting to watch now, is whether the Chiefs re-work a new deal for Cassel. That will really tell us all how much faith Pioli has in his guy. If they work it where he ends up witha 5 year deal, it's pretty clear. If they let him play out the 1-year franchise tender, then he still has something left to prove, but then that also leaves KC fighting with other clubs to retain his services next season.

 

you must be a happy camper today...i actually thought Thigpen played pretty well but getting a Pioli guy off NE (and Vrabel) off NE for the price they got him for is a freakin steal. Even if Cassel turns out to be less than thought you've still got Thigpen available and found a decent LB piece and still have your 1st round pick to use on another area of need.

[De Novo 0]

And don't forget Chris Baker. That's one of those sneaky, under the radar sigings that New England is famous for.

It's under the radar for a reason.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

what will be itneresting to watch now, is whether the Chiefs re-work a new deal for Cassel. That will really tell us all how much faith Pioli has in his guy. If they work it where he ends up witha 5 year deal, it's pretty clear. If they let him play out the 1-year franchise tender, then he still has something left to prove, but then that also leaves KC fighting with other clubs to retain his services next season.

I saw that mentioned elsewhere, but my understanding is that if the CBA is not renewed, then he is a restricted free agent. The reason is that there is not just an uncapped year next year (with no new CBA). It would also change the UFA status from 4 accrued seasons to 6 accrued seasons.

[t.j 35]

I think the Patriots got a great deal in the Cassel trade.

 

For starters I think an early 2nd round pick is an awesome pick to have. Lots of good talent available at the fraction of the cost and pressure of an early 1st round pick. Of all things the Raiders did last season, I felt (and this was a first-guess) that trading their early 2nd to the Falcons for DeAngelo was the worst move. You know NE will be able to make good use of the pick for their neverending army of role players. A rebuilding team like KC could really use it as well, much like Atlanta did.

 

As for Cassel, count me in the camp that he's a product of the system until proven otherwise. How can anyone be convinced otherwise? Under Cassel the offense scored 11 points per game fewer, and the team won 5 games less than the year before. Granted there was nowhere to go but down after that 07 season, but that is still down a long way. To me it's a massive risk to count on him as your starter with a crappy young team. Especially when the alternative--making NE pay him $14M to be a backup--would be awesome. Kansas City really did New England a big favor with this trade.

[TD Ryan2 315]

it probably could end up being a good deal for both teams. I kind of think neither party would have partaken, if they didn't feel like the move benefited them somehow. The Chiefs went out and got what is probably the best option at QB available to them. Would signing Jeff Garcia or Kurt Warner have been any better than getting Cassel? And on the flip side, is drafting Sanchez or Stafford any better than investing in Cassel? Plus, it only took your 2nd as oppossed to your 3rd overall. And NE got his contract off the books,a nd got a decent pick for him.

 

As for Vrabel, he may have very well ended up a cap casualty for the Pats. Instead, they throw him in a package with cassel, and send him to a team that has the cap space to pay him this year at what he is making (which also probably helps sell tickets this year in KC), and provides leadership and the mentality this team so desperately needs into the locker room.

 

This very well could be a win-win for both organizations.

 

cmh, as a Chiefs fan, you should be happy.

Cassel will be better right away than the rookies , he helps your team compete right now, not next year or in the future, and *if* he doesn't pan out in the long run, it's not as big of a loss as it is if you busted on one of the top 5 picks overall.

 

NE had to franchise Cassel and just roll the dice to see what they could get.

If they don't franchise him, he walks and NE gets nothing (and still has to cut Vrabel as a cap casualty).

So they franchise him and hope for the best. The hopes (from us fans at least) was that some teams would be desperate and overpay for him. That didn't happen and NE had to settle for a 2nd rounder. There were a lot of posters around here hoping that teams would "let NE sit and rot with 2 QBs at $30mil" and to some degree, that happened. The other teams didn't allow NE to cash in huge.

 

You'll like Cassel. He's easy to root for. Most of us NE fans are hoping he does well.

And remember when Parcells would move from team to team and take "Parcells guys" along with him? That's what you just got with Vrabel. He doesn't have a lot left on the field, but he'll help turn your defense's attitude into a smart, tough, winning mind set.

 

KC gets a QB, frees up that top draft pick, and improves their defensive mindset/lockerroom.

 

NE gets a 2nd rounder, frees up $20 mil in cap space, and (some are speculating) spared a favorite son (Vrabel) from being "cut".

[t.j 35]

So they franchise him and hope for the best. The hopes (from us fans at least) was that some teams would be desperate and overpay for him. That didn't happen

 

Fixed.

 

KC gets a QB, frees up that top draft pick

 

I know what you're trying to say here, but the reality is that they didn't free up anything, that top pick was already free. They'd have been better off giving Thigpen a shot and using their early 1st and 2nd rounders to get studs at other positions. A great team helps a QB look good. Everyone accepts the cliche that QBs get too much of the credit and too much of the blame, but whenever it comes time for a deal to be made, people go back to their habit of placing too much value on the QB position. What the Chiefs needed was to fill out their team as a whole, not to give up their best value draft pick for what amounts to probably a slight improvement over Thigpen.

 

it's not as big of a loss as it is if you busted on one of the top 5 picks overall.

 

That top 5 pick that KC has, can still easily bust.

[TD Ryan2 315]

Fixed.

 

you really think so tj?

 

seems like you're basing this on the idea that Cassel will suxor (or maybe it's because you hate the Chefs?)

 

I think a 2nd was about fair.

The first would have been overpaying (IMO).

Based how I think Cassel will do on another team, a second seems about right.

Cassel will be a decent starting QB, maybe on the level of a Jeff Garcia or Matt Hasselback... one of the better QBs in the game, but not elite... a guy with a chance to make a Pro Bowl here or there, but not a shoe-in annually.

 

Fixed.

I don't understand this comment. They didn't free up anything.

I was under the impression that KC would use that top pick on a QB. By signing Cassel, they have a little more flexibility with that pick.

 

That top 5 pick that KC has, can still easily bust.

true, but it won't be because they were forcing themselves to take a QB there.

And, IMO, nothing is worse that tanking with a top QB pick. It's just painful, the worst kind of bust there is. You take a QB hoping for him to be your franchise player and week in, week out he stinks up the joint. There is nothing worse (Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer, etc) So yeah, I think Cassel insulates KC from that horror a bit.

[parrot 789]

As for Cassel, count me in the camp that he's a product of the system until proven otherwise.

 

Here's the thing though, who in the NFL would know what they were getting in Cassel better than Pioli? McDaniels might be the one other name you could throw out there. This is Pioli's first big personnel move and even though most people agreed he got Cassel at a solid price, he has to know it's going to be looked at pretty hard. The fact that it was Pioli who pulled the trigger on Cassel - rather then someone who has just watched him from the outside - makes me think he's more than a product of the Pats system. And the fact that McDaniels was also apparently keenly interested reinforces that impression for me.

[t.j 35]

Here's the thing though, who in the NFL would know what they were getting in Cassel better than Pioli? McDaniels might be the one other name you could throw out there. This is Pioli's first big personnel move and even though most people agreed he got Cassel at a solid price, he has to know it's going to be looked at pretty hard. The fact that it was Pioli who pulled the trigger on Cassel - rather then someone who has just watched him from the outside - makes me think he's more than a product of the Pats system. And the fact that McDaniels was also apparently keenly interested reinforces that impression for me.

 

What do Pioli and McDaniels know about what Cassel can do on a lesser team? Nothing. What track record do Pioli and McDaniels have outside of New England? None.

 

A pick at the top of the 2nd round is a very high price to pay for a player. People think it's a solid price because they started thinking in terms of the initial price of two 1st round picks, then started thinking in terms of a 1st round pick. Which is a mistake. Cassel never did anything to justify being talked about in those terms. He hasn't demonstrated enough to me to indicate that he was worth anything more than a 3rd round pick. Given that the Patriots were in a position where they really had to trade him, overpaying for him was a senseless move.

[parrot 789]

What do Pioli and McDaniels know about what Cassel can do on a lesser team? Nothing. What track record do Pioli and McDaniels have outside of New England? None.

 

Nobody "knows" anything about what Cassel can do on a lesser team. But there are probably no two people - other than Belichick - better equipped to make an informed analyis and projection of how he might fair than those two. And they both apparently seem to think he's going to be alright.

[wiffleball 4,679]

What do Pioli and McDaniels know about what Cassel can do on a lesser team? Nothing. What track record do Pioli and McDaniels have outside of New England? None.

 

A pick at the top of the 2nd round is a very high price to pay for a player. People think it's a solid price because they started thinking in terms of the initial price of two 1st round picks, then started thinking in terms of a 1st round pick. Which is a mistake. Cassel never did anything to justify being talked about in those terms. He hasn't demonstrated enough to me to indicate that he was worth anything more than a 3rd round pick. Given that the Patriots were in a position where they really had to trade him, overpaying for him was a senseless move.

 

The Texans gave away two 2nd round pics for Matt Slob - who had proven absolutely DIICK up until that point.

 

Headcase Winslow was just traded for a 2nd and a 5th.

[cmh6476 774]

Fixed.

I know what you're trying to say here, but the reality is that they didn't free up anything, that top pick was already free. They'd have been better off giving Thigpen a shot and using their early 1st and 2nd rounders to get studs at other positions. A great team helps a QB look good. Everyone accepts the cliche that QBs get too much of the credit and too much of the blame, but whenever it comes time for a deal to be made, people go back to their habit of placing too much value on the QB position. What the Chiefs needed was to fill out their team as a whole, not to give up their best value draft pick for what amounts to probably a slight improvement over Thigpen.

That top 5 pick that KC has, can still easily bust.

your point becomes moot when the Chiefs fill those holes with all the money they have available in free agency.

[t.j 35]

But there are probably no two people - other than Belichick - better equipped to make an informed analyis and projection of how he might fair than those two.

 

Maybe, maybe not. They have the most exposure to Cassel, but they might also have the blinders on when it comes to him.

Not to mention, some guys revert to bad habits when they lose their coach. See, Alex Smith minus Norv Turner, Brett Favre minus Mike Holmgren, etc. Belichick is known as a defensive guy but there probably isn't another head coach I'd rather have around my QB all year than him.

[t.j 35]

The Texans gave away two 2nd round pics for Matt Slob - who had proven absolutely DIICK up until that point.

 

Headcase Winslow was just traded for a 2nd and a 5th.

 

Don't forget, Atlanta also got to move up from the 10th pick to the 8th pick in that trade.

More importantly, how has that trade worked out for Houston?

 

Who knows how the Winslow trade will work out.

 

Another case of a team trading a 2nd-rounder for a QB: Miami with Daunte Culpepper. Horrible trade for the Dolphins, and they were picking up a guy that was more productive with his old team than Cassel.

[t.j 35]

your point becomes moot when the Chiefs fill those holes with all the money they have available in free agency.

 

Right. Good luck filling all the holes of a 2-14 team in free agency.

[cmh6476 774]

I think the Patriots got a great deal in the Cassel trade.

 

For starters I think an early 2nd round pick is an awesome pick to have. Lots of good talent available at the fraction of the cost and pressure of an early 1st round pick. Of all things the Raiders did last season, I felt (and this was a first-guess) that trading their early 2nd to the Falcons for DeAngelo was the worst move. You know NE will be able to make good use of the pick for their neverending army of role players. A rebuilding team like KC could really use it as well, much like Atlanta did.

 

As for Cassel, count me in the camp that he's a product of the system until proven otherwise. How can anyone be convinced otherwise? Under Cassel the offense scored 11 points per game fewer, and the team won 5 games less than the year before. Granted there was nowhere to go but down after that 07 season, but that is still down a long way. To me it's a massive risk to count on him as your starter with a crappy young team. Especially when the alternative--making NE pay him $14M to be a backup--would be awesome. Kansas City really did New England a big favor with this trade.

kc has a ton of the building blocks in place. LT, C, WR, TE, DT, DE, OLB, CB, CB, and Sx3 have youthful players the Chiefs hope to be the building blocks of the future. Now they have a QB on the under-side of 30, and acquired a veteran leader to help coach up these young guys. I think you're just hoping they set themself up to fail.

[cmh6476 774]

Right. Good luck filling all the holes of a 2-14 team in free agency.

If this team finds quality players at WR, RT/RG, DE, LB, and LB then they are in great shape in my opinion. If they fill one of those with that 3rd overall pick, then they need to find about 3 or 4 free agents, which isn't out of the realm of possibility. Lots of good LB talent out there, and still some decent OL and DL talent they can go after. $20 says they finish better than the Raiders do next year...

[cmh6476 774]

and the reality is it wasn't like the Chiefs expected '09 to be the year, they are building for the future and just adding the pieces. However, they aren't as far off as you would like to think they are

[t.j 35]

and the reality is it wasn't like the Chiefs expected '09 to be the year, they are building for the future and just adding the pieces.

 

All the more reason not to reach for a QB when you could groom a younger, promising QB (Thigpen) and draft a younger, more talented, cheaper player at another position with that 2nd round pick.

[t.j 35]

$20 says they finish better than the Raiders do next year...

 

The Raiders are an absolute trainwreck. That means nothing.

 

I think you're just hoping they set themself up to fail.

 

Your track record with these Chiefs arguments is terrible. Remember telling me how you didn't see how the Chiefs would be any worse in '07 than they were in '06? Remember telling me how Larry Johnson was going to be the exception to the rule of overworked RBs tanking, for no apparent reason other than because you said so?

 

Obviously I don't like Kansas City, but I don't like New England any more than them. I hate to see the better of the two franchises (NE) get a great deal on this. Especially when the Pats would have (finally) been stuck between a rock and a hard place if no one had bailed them out.

[FeelingMN 273]

and the reality is it wasn't like the Chiefs expected '09 to be the year, they are building for the future and just adding the pieces. However, they aren't as far off as you would like to think they are

 

And they aren't as close as you think they are.

 

They were 2-14 last year. Thus far, they have not done the same things MIA and ATL did last year. Those teams made abundant wholesale changes that paid off in the long run. What has KC done? They've signed a career backup and an over the hill LB.

 

Oh, but the pieces are in place you say. Don't need to make many changes?

 

Well then, KC will win 6 games instead of 2. Hey it's an improvement! Don't get too greedy.

 

I do agree they are poised to become a good team. I just don't see it happening this year.

[cmh6476 774]

The Raiders are an absolute trainwreck. That means nothing.

Your track record with these Chiefs arguments is terrible. Remember telling me how you didn't see how the Chiefs would be any worse in '07 than they were in '06? Remember telling me how Larry Johnson was going to be the exception to the rule of overworked RBs tanking, for no apparent reason other than because you said so?

 

Obviously I don't like Kansas City, but I don't like New England any more than them. I hate to see the better of the two franchises (NE) get a great deal on this. Especially when the Pats would have (finally) been stuck between a rock and a hard place if no one had bailed them out.

remember me telling you they'd make the playoffs in '06 when everyone else had already counted them out?

[cmh6476 774]

And they aren't as close as you think they are.

 

They were 2-14 last year. Thus far, they have not done the same things MIA and ATL did last year. Those teams made abundant wholesale changes that paid off in the long run. What has KC done? They've signed a career backup and an over the hill LB.

 

Oh, but the pieces are in place you say. Don't need to make many changes?

 

Well then, KC will win 6 games instead of 2. Hey it's an improvement! Don't get too greedy.

 

I do agree they are poised to become a good team. I just don't see it happening this year.

they haven't even really got started yet, can we at least see what they do first

[t.j 35]

remember me telling you they'd make the playoffs in '06 when everyone else had already counted them out?

 

I don't, actually, but I can live with that one. Everyone was counting them out, even leading up to week 17, and for good reason since they needed massive help from other games just to have a chance in the final week. Good for them, they went 9-7, and got bounced in the first round of the playoffs. In other words, in terms of the playoffs, it was about as good as any season the Chiefs have had since you were born, sadly.

[cmh6476 774]

In other words, in terms of the playoffs, it was about as good as any season the Chiefs have had since you were born, sadly.

 

 

which is why I'm not being hasty to jump on the bandwagon. However, seeing the changes being made, and the way theya re being implemented, as a fan you can only be optimistic about what is going on with our front office.

[wiffleball 4,679]

remember me telling you they'd make the playoffs in '06 when everyone else had already counted them out?

 

Jeesus, you've been calling for these jerkoffs to make the playoffs since Gore invented the internet!

 

These fockers haven't won anything relevant since they were wearing leather helmets. It's like rooting for the Jets.

 

Stopped Clock and all that...

[cmh6476 774]

Jeesus, you've been calling for these jerkoffs to make the playoffs since Gore invented the internet!

 

These fockers haven't won anything relevant since they were wearing leather helmets. It's like rooting for the Jets.

 

Stopped Clock and all that...

Carl Peterson has left the building, let the new era begin

[IGotWorms 3,430]

I don't understand why so many people are convinced the Patriots got fleeced in this trade. Even many Patriots fans are convinced that the Pats should have gotten more--if you go to the Boston Globe website they have all sorts of polls indicating that people think the Pats got hosed. Here are some things I think people aren't keeping properly in mind:

 

1. Vrabel had very little trade value. In fact, he was probably thrown in by the Patriots to get rid of his cap number. Even if it was the Chiefs that requested Vrabel in the trade, a 34 year old linebacker alone would probably net a 6th round draft pick or so, at best. Bottom line is that Vrabel was a "toss in" and you can't really include his presence when evaluating the trade.

 

2. Cassel's ability to succeed on another team is still very much up in the air. He had a great year statistically, but he also played like crap against quality defenses and really beat up on the weak ones. Moreover, he benefited from his receivers getting much greater YACs than average. Finally, the guy could only play really well out of the shotgun formation. Now I think he probably will be at least a serviceable starter for the Chiefs, but I'm just saying there are enough question marks there to make some potential suitors hesitant. Especially given the franchise tag cap number he brought along with him.

 

3. The Pats were dealing for a position of weakness. Everybody knew they had to unload Cassel, and had to do it quick. In that type of scenario you are pretty unlikely to get a sweetheart deal. Bottom line is the Pats had to take the best offer they got within a reasonably early period of time.

 

I wish they would've got a conditional 2010 pick in the trade as well, but given the above factors, I can hardly conclude that the Pats got screwed in the deal.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

I don't understand why so many people are convinced the Patriots got fleeced in this trade. Even many Patriots fans are convinced that the Pats should have gotten more--if you go to the Boston Globe website they have all sorts of polls indicating that people think the Pats got hosed. Here are some things I think people aren't keeping properly in mind:

 

1. Vrabel had very little trade value. In fact, he was probably thrown in by the Patriots to get rid of his cap number. Even if it was the Chiefs that requested Vrabel in the trade, a 34 year old linebacker alone would probably net a 6th round draft pick or so, at best. Bottom line is that Vrabel was a "toss in" and you can't really include his presence when evaluating the trade.

 

2. Cassel's ability to succeed on another team is still very much up in the air. He had a great year statistically, but he also played like crap against quality defenses and really beat up on the weak ones. Moreover, he benefited from his receivers getting much greater YACs than average. Finally, the guy could only play really well out of the shotgun formation. Now I think he probably will be at least a serviceable starter for the Chiefs, but I'm just saying there are enough question marks there to make some potential suitors hesitant. Especially given the franchise tag cap number he brought along with him.

 

3. The Pats were dealing for a position of weakness. Everybody knew they had to unload Cassel, and had to do it quick. In that type of scenario you are pretty unlikely to get a sweetheart deal. Bottom line is the Pats had to take the best offer they got within a reasonably early period of time.

 

I wish they would've got a conditional 2010 pick in the trade as well, but given the above factors, I can hardly conclude that the Pats got screwed in the deal.

I think that the issue is that you had expectations of a first round pick or multiple first day picks. Then you only get a 2nd rounder (which is not too bad). However, the thing that sticks in people's craw is that you hear that they could have had either Tampa or Detroit's first rounder as part of a 3-way deal.

 

As I think I have heard somewhere before, "it is what it is".

[BirdBradyBobbyOrr 0]

2 things about this trade that I haven't seen mentioned.

 

1) The Chiefs got a damn good QB. In fact they potentially got a Pro Bowl QB. I saw things in Matt Cassels game that made me think he could be a top quality QB in this league. Better then Carson Palmer, Cutler, Rivers and right up there with what we'll see from Matt Ryan going forward. He had back to back 400 yard passing games and in one of them he ran for a TD and the other he ran for 62 yards. He was doing things some real special things late in the season and while there is no way the Chiefs offense is going to match the Patriots, if Larry Johnson and Gonzo are able to get fired up and really go for it this season we could see a real solid offense. A winning offense that will take that Division from the overrated Chargers and overrated Broncos, who have both alienated their star player this offseason.

 

2) Despite what I just said about Matt Cassel I think the Pats might have just got better at backup QB. I watched Kevin O'Connell play at SDSU many times and he can flat out ball. Right now, today, he is best running QB in the NFL. He's younger then Cassel and the Pats were genius in drafting him last year. GENIUS! Let him sit behind Brady for the next few years and learn. Remember the Pats saw enough in him to draft him with a 3rd rd pick last year and to let Guittierez and then to put him in the backup role to Cassel. Plus the recent track record of finding stud QB's for their system, (see Brady and Cassel) gives me a lot of faith in their decision to draft him, hold onto him, and now he's Brady's backup.

 

Food for thought. Both teams got something from this trade and with such young talent at QB (O'Connell) and LB (Rudd, Redd, Crable, Guyton, Thomas, Tully) waiting in the wings for the Patriots we didn't really give up anything at all because both Cassel and Vrabel minutes are replaceable.

[FeelingMN 273]

Explain to me how Cassel was sacked 47 times last year. That line has been excellent in pass protection in the past. The reason is Cassel has happy feet. Which is why he picked up a few yards on some plays. QBs who run instead of hanging in the pocket aren't any good. Believe me, I've been watching TJack for three years.

 

McNabb uses his legs when he has to. Cassel runs because he has bad pocket presence. Aaron Rodgers was doing this the first half of the year, until he whacked his shoulder.

 

There's a reason coaches tell the QB to run as a last resort. Cassel hasn't figured that out yet.

 

Also, look at his games against playoff teams last year: MIA (twice), SD, IND, PIT, ARI

 

He finished with 7TDs and 6ints. Not bad until you consider he threw 6TDs 1int in two games (MIA, ARI).

 

He threw 0TDs in six, SIX!, games last year. 16 of his 21 TDs came in 5 games: DEN, NYJ, @MIA, @OAK, ARI. Just so you know, they ranked 26th, 29th, 25th, 10th, and 22nd respectively against the pass last year. I mean, TJack lit up the Cards. It's not that difficult.

 

So in the 10 other games (I'll throw out the BUF game, week 17 because of horrendous weather) he threw 5 TDs.

 

Oh, and he had a turnover in 9 games last year.

 

Honestly, I like the move for both teams. But to say the guy has more game Palmer, Cutler, Rivers is dumb.

 

The guy still has ALOT to prove. Like I said, good move by the Chiefs but far from landing a top tier talent IMO.

[t.j 35]

I think that the issue is that you had expectations of a first round pick or multiple first day picks.

 

Moronic expectations, is what those were.

[three out of four 0]

2 things about this trade that I haven't seen mentioned.

 

2) Despite what I just said about Matt Cassel I think the Pats might have just got better at backup QB. I watched Kevin O'Connell play at SDSU many times and he can flat out ball. Right now, today, he is best running QB in the NFL. He's younger then Cassel and the Pats were genius in drafting him last year. GENIUS! Let him sit behind Brady for the next few years and learn. Remember the Pats saw enough in him to draft him with a 3rd rd pick last year and to let Guittierez and then to put him in the backup role to Cassel. Plus the recent track record of finding stud QB's for their system, (see Brady and Cassel) gives me a lot of faith in their decision to draft him, hold onto him, and now he's Brady's backup.

 

Great point about O'Connell. The Pats drafted high much higher than where they drafted Brady and Cassell so that shows you how much they think about him. Especially given the fact that they already had a healthy Brady at the time. I remember how everyone thought that Cassell would be cut last preseason because of how well O'Connell played.

[sirwinzalot 1]

As a CHIEFS fan, I'm happy with Cassel, Yes, Thigpen played okay last year, but where's the depth? If Thigpen would go down, we had Huard and Croyle, nuff said. Now we have two possibly good qb's, can't remember the last time I could say that. Having to bring Huard or Croyle into the game, just seems like a huge step backwards.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Moronic expectations, is what those were.

Not unless you think that Mike Lombardi, Peter King, Floyd Reese and the rest of the NFL talking heads were moronic. The locals were looking to break the bank. I had a bet with my brother that they would get nothing better than a 2nd rounder for him and people were looking at me like I had 3 heads.

 

The Pats could have easily gotten more if they had the time to work it a little better. They had no money available under the cap and could not play things out. They were trying to work some restructuring of deals with some of the guys on their roster and got nothing done. It was why they essentially cut Vrabel (trading prevents him from going to the Jets or Dolphins) and why they made a move to restructure Moss' deal to free up all of $750k. They had nothing to work with to even do veteran-minimum deals. If they had $4-5M, then they could have played it much different and probably snagged a first rounder without much trouble. Hindsight shows that to definitely have been an option.

[parrot 789]

I don't understand why so many people are convinced the Patriots got fleeced in this trade. Even many Patriots fans are convinced that the Pats should have gotten more--if you go to the Boston Globe website they have all sorts of polls indicating that people think the Pats got hosed. Here are some things I think people aren't keeping properly in mind:

 

1. Vrabel had very little trade value. In fact, he was probably thrown in by the Patriots to get rid of his cap number. Even if it was the Chiefs that requested Vrabel in the trade, a 34 year old linebacker alone would probably net a 6th round draft pick or so, at best. Bottom line is that Vrabel was a "toss in" and you can't really include his presence when evaluating the trade.

 

2. Cassel's ability to succeed on another team is still very much up in the air. He had a great year statistically, but he also played like crap against quality defenses and really beat up on the weak ones. Moreover, he benefited from his receivers getting much greater YACs than average. Finally, the guy could only play really well out of the shotgun formation. Now I think he probably will be at least a serviceable starter for the Chiefs, but I'm just saying there are enough question marks there to make some potential suitors hesitant. Especially given the franchise tag cap number he brought along with him.

 

3. The Pats were dealing for a position of weakness. Everybody knew they had to unload Cassel, and had to do it quick. In that type of scenario you are pretty unlikely to get a sweetheart deal. Bottom line is the Pats had to take the best offer they got within a reasonably early period of time.

 

I wish they would've got a conditional 2010 pick in the trade as well, but given the above factors, I can hardly conclude that the Pats got screwed in the deal.

 

Agreed. Cassel played well, not great, and still has some question marks. And let's not forget he carries a $15m price tag as well. I think the Pats did fine. A second was honestly about what I expected, I think a first or multiples would have been overpaying. I was surprised they threw Vrabel in for nothing basically, but it beats cutting him. Saves a little face for both sides.

[BirdBradyBobbyOrr 0]

Explain to me how Cassel was sacked 47 times last year. That line has been excellent in pass protection in the past. The reason is Cassel has happy feet. Which is why he picked up a few yards on some plays. QBs who run instead of hanging in the pocket aren't any good. Believe me, I've been watching TJack for three years.

 

Cassel hasn't figured that out yet.

 

But to say the guy has more game Palmer, Cutler, Rivers is dumb. The guy still has ALOT to prove. Like I said, good move by the Chiefs but far from landing a top tier talent IMO.

 

OK FellingMN I will respond with an equally well thought out post. I wish more people on this site were like you and they would take the time to actually think before they post. It makes the back and forth fun as opposed to childish and boorish.

 

Don't get offended but I'm assuming you didn't watch every single play of the Patriots last year because if you had I think you'd be convinced that he was playing dramatically better in the latter part of the season. It's a pretty standard opinion around here and around NFL circles. You can't just look at his stats and say "Oh 47 sacks he has happy feet" he runs too much he isn't any good. He did run too much. He did have happy feet but they slowed down substantially and he got better.

 

A) Matt Cassell was sacked 25 times in his 1st 6 games. 22 times in the last 10 games. That's an average of 4.1 sacks per game that was reduced to 2.2 sacks a game over the last 10 games. This includes a 5 sack game against Pittsburgh who dominated everybody but if we deducted that he was really averaging only about 1.8 sacks a game the last 2/3rds of the season.

 

Matt Cassell had 6 TD's and 4 Int's over the 1st six games. No rushing TD's. That is a 3-2 TD to Int ratio. Over the last ten games he had 15 TD's and 7 Int's which was an improvement to a 2-1 TD to Int ratio. He also had 2 rushing TD's over those last 10 games.

 

C) He won the last 6 of the last 8 games and the final four games of the season including back to back 400 yard passing games over the 2nd half. Only 4 other players have ever done that. Fouts and Marino, 1st ballot Hall of Fame. Phil Simms, SuperBowl Champion. Billy Volek - ummm - Billy Volek and now Matty Cassel. Considering the resumes of the other 4 I'd say Cassel might have something special going on. (Side note: None of those other guys also added 62 rushing yards on top of the 400 he tossed for).

 

So sure Cassel has a lot to prove still but I see him as potentially better then Palmer, Cutler or Rivers. It took Rivers 3 full season starting to do what he did this year. But his 1st two years were very similar to what Cassel did in 2008. Palmer was plain out OVERRATED! now he's washed up, and Denvers coach wanted Cassel over Cutler. Time will tell but I am confident in saying you are seriously missing out on how well he played late in the year.

 

Negatives on Cassel with the understanding that he was a Rookie last year and I think he'll get better.

A) Takes too many sacks, happy feet. Ultimately 47 sacks is 47 sacks he needs to cut that down over a whole season. I think he will. He showed that he could get better.

Fumbles. He did get blindsided on a few of them, but Brady and Peyton hold onto almost everything.

C) Too much of a reliance on shotgun

D) Not the most accurate at hitting runners in stride on the deep ball

E) Play action timing. He seemed to get thrown off a bit throwing after play action. Overthrowing receivers a bit too frequently.

[cmh6476 774]

is it a bit too early for the Chiefs to start printing playoff tickets?

[t.j 35]

Not unless you think that Mike Lombardi, Peter King, Floyd Reese and the rest of the NFL talking heads were moronic.

 

I certainly do.

 

The Pats could have easily gotten more if they had the time to work it a little better. They had no money available under the cap and could not play things out.

 

Of course they didn't have money under the cap. They were on the books for fourteen million dollars for Matt Cassel! Apparently the Chiefs didn't notice, though.