Cutler Injury - the truth

[Joey Gladstone 33]

It's all of that and more. You're comparing apples to oranges in terms of the position and the type of pressure that Cutler sees every offensive down versus what a wide receiver deals with every single down.

 

Further, DeSean Jackson DIDN'T CONTRIBUTE SH!T for the Eagles in the Green Bay game. Do you think the fact that he came back and did nothing makes any fan of the game happy... or do you think most would find that a huge waste of an important position?

 

Finally - his grade 2 MCL sprain is keeping him out of a game that is taking place more than a month after the injury. While the game is meaningless, given his low base pay and the fact that he is not going to go try for whatever bonus dough he'd get for playing the game - it simply goes to show you that a grade 2 MCL sprain IS a bigger deal than most of you asstards could possibly even comprehend.

 

Thanks for being there to comprehend it for us bro!

 

I think to what degree a quarterback can tolerate the pain and at what level he can play at just depends on the quarterback.

[dj88 0]

You can all defend him all you want.

 

That's cool.

 

But to people that watch a lot of football it's quite obvious that Jay Quitler had enough and checked out on that game.

 

The Bears still suck!

[The Hood 9]

Peyton Manning is on the phone and looking at defensive photos inn between EVERY POSSESSION. Tom Brady has gathered his entire offense multiple times this season after a disappointing drive. Drew Brees is constantly in the ear of HC Sean Payton. Maybe you don't realize it, but half of what it takes to play quarterback is mental, not physical. You need to put in hours upon hours in the film room studying DEF's. You need to spend extra time in meetings with your OC going over the gameplan. What plays will work against certain defensive formations. You need to spend extra time after practice with your young players/backups to get them up to speed for when they see the field. And I'd think, this is just a hunch...but if you truly are a franchise QB, and you can't be out there with your teammates when a SB birth is on the line, you should probably at least support them. You should probably offer more assistance to the offense/offensive coordinator/2nd AND 3rd string QB's than "stay calm and trust your reads".

 

 

Why? You know how many in-game adjustments are made in today's game? As mentioned above, Manning constantly studies the defense DURING the game until he 'figures it out'. Many intelligent QB's are going over timing/different routes with the WR's. Figuring out how the CB may be playing - inside coverage, help over the top, sitting/jumping on the short stuff, etc. etc.

 

If you think it's perfectly fine to just sit on the bench when you're out of the game...in the NFC Championship game, then you were probably never much of an athlete...

So are all QB's .......but if they are injured they aren't on the phones. And that is the point. And during bad playoff games after terrible INTs I've seen plenty of the manning face pouting on the sidelines not talking to any teammates. Peyton's has had some instances where he doesn't look very good on a sideline either.

 

 

The rest of what you say............spending extra hours studying, practicing and watching film is totally correct as to what separates average QB's to the best ones. The dedication of Manning, Brady and Brees is what has made them great.

 

 

I've already posted earlier that I can't focking stand Cutler for being too much of a lazy puzzy to put in the time needed to make himself better. Kill him for that all you want. And for playing like crap long before he looked to be injured in the game. That's what I blame him for............I could care less whether he was being a cheerleader after. It's very overrated. As you said in that other post........... Hanie played better than anyone could have dreamed of so I don't know what Cutler would have helped him with anyways.

[Walter34 3]

You can all defend him all you want.

 

That's cool.

 

But to people that watch a lot of football it's quite obvious that Jay Quitler had enough and checked out on that game.

 

The Bears still suck!

 

hey everyone - dj88 watches alot of football, so his opinion here should hold alot of weight. Listen up.

 

You made up your mind what you thought this was long before any facts were available. You are either too stubborn or too stupid to consider any other possibilities. You are a blind hater and an idiot.

 

You arent a doctor, you arent an athlete, you dont have a clue. I can say the same about myself and every poster on here as well. The difference is that some are open to judging the situation with an open mind as new info becomes available.

[Walter34 3]

...But the focus has been on Cutler's lack of toughness and leadership. No matter what side of that fence you fall, you can't deny the fact that the supposed franchise QB played absolutely terrible in the biggest game of his life.

 

True, very little has been talked about the actual game and there was alot to talk about other than Cutler. When there is an attack on his character like there was and still is, the Xs and Os of the game take a back seat. This was a bizarre situation and post game fall out. Even GB took a back seat post game and into this week.

 

- Bears O overall sh!t the bed except for Forte

- GB's D played stellar

- The amzing play by Raji that kept GB from choking it all away

- Lovie coached a horrible game

- Why was Collins #2?

- Great game by Urlacher?

- Was Rodgers shut down and is that a "blueprint"?

- What do the Bears need to do for next year

 

All of this is the normal post game stuff, but was pushed aside for obvious reasons

 

No one expected Chicago to win more than 7 or 8 games and they made it to the NFC championship game. The season was a great success, despite the ending. They and jay went further than 28 other teams.

[Walter34 3]

This thread didn't go well for ol' Walt

 

It went fine. I didn't expect or intend to change minds. I said my peace.

 

How did your stars aligning threads go? Ah yes, not so well, not so exciting.

[FlaHawker 24]

 

How did your stars aligning threads

They went great. The Hawks knocked out the defending SB champs and and simply ran out of time in CHI. One more quarter and the Cutlets would have been toast. But thanks for asking.

[dj88 0]

They went great. The Hawks knocked out the defending SB champs and and simply ran out of time in CHI. One more quarter and the Cutlets would have been toast. But thanks for asking.

If the Seahawks just coulda got up by 2 scores the bears QB prolly woulda got "hurt".

[kmbryant09 1]

True, very little has been talked about the actual game and there was alot to talk about other than Cutler. When there is an attack on his character like there was and still is, the Xs and Os of the game take a back seat. This was a bizarre situation and post game fall out. Even GB took a back seat post game and into this week.

 

- Bears O overall sh!t the bed except for Forte

- GB's D played stellar

- The amzing play by Raji that kept GB from choking it all away

- Lovie coached a horrible game

- Why was Collins #2?

- Great game by Urlacher?

- Was Rodgers shut down and is that a "blueprint"?

- What do the Bears need to do for next year

 

All of this is the normal post game stuff, but was pushed aside for obvious reasons

 

No one expected Chicago to win more than 7 or 8 games and they made it to the NFC championship game. The season was a great success, despite the ending. They and jay went further than 28 other teams.

This is very true...

 

Where do you stand on Cutler? Not how he played in the Championship game, or the injury/non-injury...But do you believe he is the Bears 'franchise QB' of the next 7-10 years? I know he's better than a lot of other options, especially with how hard it is to find an elite QB. But can he LEAD a team to a SB ring? Can he lift a mediocre team to championship caliber? Everyone agrees he's below Manning, Brees, Rivers, Brady, Rodgers, Big Ben...but right now I can't put him ahead/with guys like Romo, Schaub, Ryan, Eli, and possibly a few others. At some point, doesn't that just make him an average QB?

[IMMensaMind 460]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs745.ash1/163739_10150133677353296_688543295_7771859_8159425_n.jpg

 

:lol:

 

 

LSUFreek does some top-notch sportschops.

[dj88 0]

hey everyone - dj88 watches alot of football, so his opinion here should hold alot of weight. Listen up.

 

You made up your mind what you thought this was long before any facts were available. You are either too stubborn or too stupid to consider any other possibilities. You are a blind hater and an idiot.

 

You arent a doctor, you arent an athlete, you dont have a clue. I can say the same about myself and every poster on here as well. The difference is that some are open to judging the situation with an open mind as new info becomes available.

I understand you have no choice but to defend your sissy QB. I get that.

 

The Bears gave away the farm for him and it would set you guys back to the stone age if it turns out that he is infact a quitter.

 

You're in stage 1 - Denial.

 

2012 = stage 2 - Anger. Jerry and staff must go. Time for the Bears to start from scratch.

 

[donhaas 18]

 

- Was Rodgers shut down and is that a "blueprint"?

 

 

Rodgers threw for 250 yards and he ran for 40 more with a TD...

On the most important drive of the game, the very first drive to start the game,..... what set the tone for the entire day was Rodgers going effortlessly down the field against a chocolate Chicago D (who had been preparing him for a month -- remember that they didn't try or show anything the last game vs. the Packers in order to study the Packer offense and squash them even more in the NFC Championships Game) and a against a hostile crowd... 86 yards in like 3 minutes... just gouging the chocolate Chicago D 20 yards at a time...

 

Pretty much the whole half he had his way with the Chicago D

 

A fluke interception off DD's feet actually kept this game from getting out of hand early and non-sense about a "blueprint"... The Packers were up 336-104 in offense at one point....

 

 

Brady won a Super Bowl MVP getting about half the yardage Rodgers did against the Bears.... Was that a "blueprint" game, also?

 

 

Yes, Rodgers was slowed at the end .... the Packers ran the ball three times right into the pile on the last drive and were all around painfully conservative at the end....

 

If you think almost 300 yards total offense in a freezing cold NFC Norris defensive battle on the road is "shutting him down".... you should perhaps take a look at your own quarterback for the true meaning of those 3 words.....

 

 

HTH

[dj88 0]

If you think almost 300 yards total offense in a freezing cold NFC Norris defensive battle on the road is "shutting him down".... you should perhaps take a look at your own quarterback for the true meaning of those 3 words.....

 

 

HTH

Quitler shut himself down. He was tired of getting hit.

[FeelingMN 273]

Rodgers threw for 250 yards and he ran for 40 more with a TD...

On the most important drive of the game, the very first drive to start the game,..... what set the tone for the entire day was Rodgers going effortlessly down the field against a chocolate Chicago D (who had been preparing him for a month -- remember that they didn't try or show anything the last game vs. the Packers in order to study the Packer offense and squash them even more in the NFC Championships Game) and a against a hostile crowd... 86 yards in like 3 minutes... just gouging the chocolate Chicago D 20 yards at a time...

 

Pretty much the whole half he had his way with the Chicago D

 

A fluke interception off DD's feet actually kept this game from getting out of hand early and non-sense about a "blueprint"... The Packers were up 336-104 in offense at one point....

 

 

Brady won a Super Bowl MVP getting about half the yardage Rodgers did against the Bears.... Was that a "blueprint" game, also?

 

 

Yes, Rodgers was slowed at the end .... the Packers ran the ball three times right into the pile on the last drive and were all around painfully conservative at the end....

 

If you think almost 300 yards total offense in a freezing cold NFC Norris defensive battle on the road is "shutting him down".... you should perhaps take a look at your own quarterback for the true meaning of those 3 words.....

 

 

HTH

 

55.4

 

And the most important play of the game was Cutler overthrowing a wide open Hester on Chicago's opening drive. A catch and run there, and the score might be tied. Who knows what happens after that?

 

That's not taking anything away from Rodgers. You're right. Green Bay's opening drive was impressive, and did set the tone for the remainder of the game. He took advantage of the plays that were there. Cutler didn't. And that's why Cutler will never be a winner in this league. He's never made a play when it mattered most....but that's probably because he jammed his pinky or something.

[donhaas 18]

55.4

 

Your passer rating in this instance doesn't take in consideration Rodgers 40 yards rushing and a TD including times when there was nobody open and Rodgers got first downs with his feet. Or his nice touchdown run. All of that can't be measured by passer rating. Passer rating doesn't touch that... Passer rating does give you negative numbers for a ball DD kicks up for an INT...

 

 

If Rodgers throws two 1-yard TD passes to tight ends (as, say, Brady is prone to do) his passer rating skyrockets... Instead Starks and him ran the ball in.... Same result; much lower passer rating...

 

 

The issue here is not whether Rodgers had the best game of the season... On the road, in the cold, in a tough NFC Norris defensive battle that wasn't going to happen.

Was he "shut down".... Is this the "blueprint" to stopping Rodgers?

 

Eye test says no.

 

Cutler was shut down.... for the fifth time in a row by the Packers....

It's not like Bears fans need a lesson on what it means to be shut down.... We've given them 5.

 

300 yards total offense is not a good example of shutting someone down, IMHO....

Especially when you had a whole game to study the Packers offense and they couldn't study your defense because you weren't trying/were going vanilla

[Phurfur 70]

You can all defend him all you want.

 

That's cool.

 

But to people that watch a lot of football it's quite obvious that Jay Quitler had enough and checked out on that game.

 

The Bears still suck!

 

but people that played a lot of football understand that many times a knee injury can be fine walking straight forward but cutting, rapid motion, and pushing off are a major problem.

 

How pathetic! A guy calls on his knowledge of "WATCHING" football to call out a guy who has played his entire life.

[Phurfur 70]

I seem to have lost the link to the FF Today Board where all the knowledgeable FF fans are. My link keeps bringing me here. Can anyone help?

[dj88 0]

How pathetic! A guy calls on his knowledge of "WATCHING" football to call out a guy who has played his entire life.

That's the beauty of freedom of speech.

 

HTH

[kmbryant09 1]

Donhaas - Not sure what you are trying to say here??

 

You're bragging that Rodgers played a good game because he had 40 yards and a TD, and his offense had 300+ yards of offense.

 

The Bears offense also had 300+ yards of offense, does that mean that Cutler/Collins/Hanie had a good day?

 

Rodgers threw one terrible INT - and was nearly a costly pick-6. And the INT to driver was a fluke bounce, but Rodgers deserves some blame for throwing a 5 yard pass into the feet of Driver.

 

Rodgers did not play well. I think he is a fantastic QB, one of the top5 in the league. He did manage to make a few plays with his feet, but that didn't make up for his lack of production from the QB position.

 

And you lost a lot of credibility when you mentioned the 'opening drive' as the 'most important drive of the game'

[Phurfur 70]

That's the beauty of freedom of speech.

 

HTH

 

Yes, even if it does come from your parent's basement.

[t-birdie 8]

Rodgers threw one terrible INT - and was nearly a costly pick-6.

 

You know, speaking of that, why wasn't Urlacher looking for Rodgers as soon as he started upfield? As the offensive player he can do most anything to Rodgers. He should have crossed that line and run straight at Rodgers as hard as he could and stiff-armed the ever-loving ###### out of Rodgers' face. Speared him with his helmet. Hell, he could have done nearly anything short of punching him. Instead he allowed himself to be tripped up and Rodgers escaped unmolested. Stupid.

 

As far as Cutler. Wow. We could have Orton and two first round rookie O-lineman. I hope we saved the receipt for Cutler.

[donhaas 18]

Donhaas - Not sure what you are trying to say here??

 

You're bragging that Rodgers played a good game because he had 40 yards and a TD, and his offense had 300+ yards of offense.

 

The Bears offense also had 300+ yards of offense, does that mean that Cutler/Collins/Hanie had a good day?

 

Rodgers threw one terrible INT - and was nearly a costly pick-6. And the INT to driver was a fluke bounce, but Rodgers deserves some blame for throwing a 5 yard pass into the feet of Driver.

 

Rodgers did not play well. I think he is a fantastic QB, one of the top5 in the league. He did manage to make a few plays with his feet, but that didn't make up for his lack of production from the QB position.

 

And you lost a lot of credibility when you mentioned the 'opening drive' as the 'most important drive of the game'

 

Bragging is bolded... you are building a strawman and you demolished him... Kudos! Take it to the geek board...

 

Nobody is bragging about Rodgers... The point of my entry is that he was "shut down" and this was the "blueprint" to stopping him...

 

I disagreed and I stated my evidence....

 

Hanie racked up a lot of fourth quarter garbage stats... Nobody knew who he was, nobody schemed for him, and he made some plays.... kudos to him.... Nice job under the circumstances...

 

In that game, the 86-yard 3-and-half minute opening drive was THE most important drive of the game... It put the pressure directly on Chicago in what was supposed to be a grind-it-out, very low-scoring defensive battle... It made a very bold statement and ramped up the pressure on Cutler, who, to be honest, wilted....

 

 

I don't like the way the Packers finished at all.... whether it was because of the vicious illegal hit the head or because they just got extremely conservative.... or do we dare say, Chicago finally D'ed up after Rodgers was mostly going up and down the field for 3 quarters?...

 

But to say this was the "blueprint game" to stop Rodgers or that he was "shut down" is silly.... That's where I came into this argument...

 

Nobody anywhere is bragging that this was Rodgers' greatest game...

[kmbryant09 1]

Bragging is bolded... you are building a strawman and you demolished him... Kudos! Take it to the geek board...

 

Nobody is bragging about Rodgers... The point of my entry is that he was "shut down" and this was the "blueprint" to stopping him...

 

I disagreed and I stated my evidence....

 

Hanie racked up a lot of fourth quarter garbage stats... Nobody knew who he was, nobody schemed for him, and he made some plays.... kudos to him.... Nice job under the circumstances...

 

In that game, the 86-yard 3-and-half minute opening drive was THE most important drive of the game... It put the pressure directly on Chicago in what was supposed to be a grind-it-out, very low-scoring defensive battle... It made a very bold statement and ramped up the pressure on Cutler, who, to be honest, wilted....

 

 

I don't like the way the Packers finished at all.... whether it was because of the vicious illegal hit the head or because they just got extremely conservative.... or do we dare say, Chicago finally D'ed up after Rodgers was mostly going up and down the field for 3 quarters?...

 

But to say this was the "blueprint game" to stop Rodgers or that he was "shut down" is silly.... That's where I came into this argument...

 

Nobody anywhere is bragging that this was Rodgers' greatest game...

You just make it seem like you were pleased with how Rodgers played, no worries...

 

But anyway - if I told you that Rodgers put up 240 yards, zero TD's, 2 INT's, 40 yards rushing and a TD for EVERY GAME of his career, he'd be outta this league by 2013. Yes he posted 150 yards in the first 2 possessions, but he also sh!t the bed in the 2nd half. And by the way, there were at least 2 or 3 more important possessions in that game than the opening drive. Ya know, maybe like when the DEF ended the Bears final drive to seal the game? Or maybe when Rodgers had the ball and a chance to clinch the game with a few first downs, and went 3 and out?

 

Maybe he wasn't completely shut down, maybe his 'shutdown' games are a lot better than others because of his legs (much like Mike Vick)...but when a QB comes into a game with 140, 90, 123, and 137 as his QB ratings of the past month, and puts up his kind of box score, isn't it fair to say he got shut down?

[FeelingMN 273]

Your passer rating in this instance doesn't take in consideration Rodgers 40 yards rushing and a TD including times when there was nobody open and Rodgers got first downs with his feet. Or his nice touchdown run. All of that can't be measured by passer rating. Passer rating doesn't touch that... Passer rating does give you negative numbers for a ball DD kicks up for an INT...

 

 

If Rodgers throws two 1-yard TD passes to tight ends (as, say, Brady is prone to do) his passer rating skyrockets... Instead Starks and him ran the ball in.... Same result; much lower passer rating...

 

 

The issue here is not whether Rodgers had the best game of the season... On the road, in the cold, in a tough NFC Norris defensive battle that wasn't going to happen.

Was he "shut down".... Is this the "blueprint" to stopping Rodgers?

 

Eye test says no.

 

Cutler was shut down.... for the fifth time in a row by the Packers....

It's not like Bears fans need a lesson on what it means to be shut down.... We've given them 5.

 

300 yards total offense is not a good example of shutting someone down, IMHO....

Especially when you had a whole game to study the Packers offense and they couldn't study your defense because you weren't trying/were going vanilla

 

Fair enough, though I disagree that the Green Bay offense was humming along for 3 quarters before getting "conservative". They scored 7 points after their first drive. Seven. That's it. Not exactly a well oiled machine. They would have scored more if Rodgers didn't throw it right to Urlacher, and take a sack pushing GB out of FG range.

 

But who cares about all that really. Just a minor difference of opinion. This game was not a blueprint for anything. And I agree with you in that the first drive was a tone setter for the rest of the game. Rodgers was great at the start. Contrast that with Cutler who had an opportunity to get his team right back into the game on Chicago's opening drive, and he woefully overthrows Hester. If Rodgers were given the same opportunity, that's an easy six. And that's why Rodgers is discussed in the same light as the games other elites, and Jay Cutler is labeled as Jeff George.

 

Come to think of it, has Cutler ever made a memorable play? Is he known for anything positive? Most other QBs who are his cohorts have something to hang their hat on. Vince Young at least has a winning record as a starter. Josh Freeman is clutch. Matt Ryan helped turn a franchise around. Joe Flacco has led his team to the playoffs since being named the starter. Same with Mark Sanchez. Hell, even Stafford showed something in the 6 games he's played as a Pro....he toughed out a comeback victory against Cleveland last year. Cutler..... Uhm....he has a strong arm? There is no defining moment, nothing noteworthy about his career....except he has a strong arm and he's been labeled as a quitter.

 

Nice trade Chicago.

[donhaas 18]

You just make it seem like you were pleased with how Rodgers played, no worries...

 

He accounted for almost 300 total yards (by himself, not Green Bay team totals) in about 3 quarters...

Brady accounted for less than half of that and won a Super Bowl MVP....

I didn't see too many people talking about the Rams' "blueprint" to shut down Brady....

 

I'm pleased with the way he played in those circumstances minus the last interception.... Can I say that?

Obviously, the ATL game was phenomenal.... but that's a different team, different weather, different circumstances, different play-calling (Offense kept their foot on the gas, instead of going into a shell)

 

Or maybe when Rodgers had the ball and a chance to clinch the game with a few first downs, and went 3 and out?

 

3 run plays were called.... What is Rodgers supposed to do? The Packers got extremely conservative

 

 

Maybe he wasn't completely shut down, maybe his 'shutdown' games are a lot better than others because of his legs (much like Mike Vick)...but when a QB comes into a game with 140, 90, 123, and 137 as his QB ratings of the past month, and puts up his kind of box score, isn't it fair to say he got shut down?

 

He was shut down far worse in the last Chicago game...

 

Nobody expected big numbers in this game, against this D, in this weather

 

Packers score at the end of the half and that drive in the third quarter that ended at the goalline, and they are up 28-0, Rodgers sits the fourth quarter and his stats are almost identically the same.

 

Everybody is slobbing his knob, rather than saying he was "shut down" or had a sh!tty game..... but he essentially played the same game...

 

So, yes... if the Bears "blueprint" was let Rodgers run completely roughshed over you for a half, hope that a ball bounces weirdly off DD's foot for an INT to stop a drive at the end of the half, and then let Rodgers walk completely down the field with no resistence and hope to get an INT in your endzone.... then hope the Packers go completely conservative the rest of the way.... then it was an awesome plan.... Lovie is a genius

 

 

 

Yes, I guess that is a successful blueprint for shutting down Rodgers...

 

Nice job, Chicago D

[donhaas 18]

Fair enough, though I disagree that the Green Bay offense was humming along for 3 quarters before getting "conservative". They scored 7 points after their first drive. Seven. That's it. Not exactly a well oiled machine. They would have scored more if Rodgers didn't throw it right to Urlacher, and take a sack pushing GB out of FG range.

 

But who cares about all that really. Just a minor difference of opinion. This game was not a blueprint for anything. And I agree with you in that the first drive was a tone setter for the rest of the game. Rodgers was great at the start. Contrast that with Cutler who had an opportunity to get his team right back into the game on Chicago's opening drive, and he woefully overthrows Hester. If Rodgers were given the same opportunity, that's an easy six. And that's why Rodgers is discussed in the same light as the games other elites, and Jay Cutler is labeled as Jeff George.

 

Come to think of it, has Cutler ever made a memorable play? Is he known for anything positive? Most other QBs who are his cohorts have something to hang their hat on. Vince Young at least has a winning record as a starter. Josh Freeman is clutch. Matt Ryan helped turn a franchise around. Joe Flacco has led his team to the playoffs since being named the starter. Same with Mark Sanchez. Hell, even Stafford showed something in the 6 games he's played as a Pro....he toughed out a comeback victory against Cleveland last year. Cutler..... Uhm....he has a strong arm? There is no defining moment, nothing noteworthy about his career....except he has a strong arm and he's been labeled as a quitter.

 

Nice trade Chicago.

 

 

This is all I'm saying here... let's find a happy medium.... Not his best game; but far from getting shut down...

 

Is it just me, or are critics particularly harsh on Rodgers?..... Going into this playoff season, I couldn't count all the people dogging him because he never won a playoff game (in two years....)

Now he has as many playoff victories this year as Favre did in his last 10 years with the Pack....

 

 

Can we say that Rodgers played a good game (not great), but made one big mistake?

Can we give credit to a very good Chicago D that was at home and played decent, too?

 

 

I've seen Favre get shut down many times(especially in the playoffs)....

 

This wasn't it...

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

This is all I'm saying here... let's find a happy medium.... Not his best game; but far from getting shut down...

 

Is it just me, or are critics particularly harsh on Rodgers?..... Going into this playoff season, I couldn't count all the people dogging him because he never won a playoff game (in two years....)

Now he has as many playoff victories this year as Favre did in his last 10 years with the Pack....

 

 

Can we say that Rodgers played a good game (not great), but made one big mistake?

Can we give credit to a very good Chicago D that was at home and played decent, too?

 

 

I've seen Favre get shut down many times(especially in the playoffs)....

 

This wasn't it...

 

He wasn't shut down, but he did not have a great game. I am not sure what you are talking about with respect to Rodgers getting criticism nationally. People have been practically on their knees over how he has played this year and his ability to take over a game.

[kmbryant09 1]

He accounted for almost 300 total yards (by himself, not Green Bay team totals) in about 3 quarters...

Brady accounted for less than half of that and won a Super Bowl MVP....

I didn't see too many people talking about the Rams' "blueprint" to shut down Brady....

 

I'm pleased with the way he played in those circumstances minus the last interception.... Can I say that?

Obviously, the ATL game was phenomenal.... but that's a different team, different weather, different circumstances, different play-calling (Offense kept their foot on the gas, instead of going into a shell)

 

 

 

3 run plays were called.... What is Rodgers supposed to do? The Packers got extremely conservative

 

 

 

 

He was shut down far worse in the last Chicago game...

 

Nobody expected big numbers in this game, against this D, in this weather

 

Packers score at the end of the half and that drive in the third quarter that ended at the goalline, and they are up 28-0, Rodgers sits the fourth quarter and his stats are almost identically the same.

 

Everybody is slobbing his knob, rather than saying he was "shut down" or had a sh!tty game..... but he essentially played the same game...

 

So, yes... if the Bears "blueprint" was let Rodgers run completely roughshed over you for a half, hope that a ball bounces weirdly off DD's foot for an INT to stop a drive at the end of the half, and then let Rodgers walk completely down the field with no resistence and hope to get an INT in your endzone.... then hope the Packers go completely conservative the rest of the way.... then it was an awesome plan.... Lovie is a genius

 

 

 

Yes, I guess that is a successful blueprint for shutting down Rodgers...

 

Nice job, Chicago D

I'm really not sure why or how you are comparing Rodgers game last week to Brady's SB performance.

t

Being shut down is a comparative term. If a guy averaged 40 points in the NBA, and is held to 20, that's being shut down. But 20 points for most players is a good game.

 

And quit saying he put up 300 yards in 3 quarters - or people will just combat that with the fact that he did absolutely nothing with the game on the line in the 4th quarter. I'm shocked that you think he played well, or that you were happy with how he played. because frankly, that would be settling. Rodgers is fantastic, the sky is the limit for him. He's smart, got a strong and accurate arm, makes great reads...and on top of that he's a great runner at the QB position. To say you're pleased with a 240 yard, 2 INT performance is selling him, and your franchise, extremely short.

 

Rodgers' first 2 possessions of the 4th quarter?? 7 plays, 17 yards. Their next drive could have sealed it, but went run, run, pass. That play was a designed pass, but Rodgers didn't see anything and tucked it and ran. A safe, conservative decision by him, but he actually misses Kuhn. When he rolls right, Rodgers drew Kuhn's defender up to stop the scramble, and coulda dumped an easy pass to Kuhn to ice the game. That's nit-picky, but just an observation.

 

So Rodgers played pretty well in the first half. Threw 2 INT's (one very poor, costly mistake), did absolutely nothing in the 2nd half, and missed on 2 or 3 opportunities to ice the game...and you're happy with his performance??? You and I both know he's much, much better than that, and capable of much, much more.

[donhaas 18]

I'm really not sure why or how you are comparing Rodgers game last week to Brady's SB performance.

 

Brady is an all-time great. He won an MVP trophy amassing half the yardage that Rodgers did.

No, he didn't have a receiver kick the ball up in the air for an INT on what should have been -- at the very worst -- an incomplete pass.

Yes, he had a short touchdown pass.... but Rodgers ran it in..... We'll call that a wash....

 

 

So, Brady accumulated less than half the yardage against a worse defense in a weather-controlled and non-hostile environment .... led his team to far more 3-and-outs and stalled drives.... yet I've never ever seen one person ever say that the Rams had the "blueprint" for "shutting him down"....

 

Why is that?

 

 

So, I have two conclusions left:

 

1)Brady can't hold Rodgers jock so it's unfair to compare them

2)Rodgers gets criticized unfairly after games..... People like you and Walter34 think that defenses have found the "blueprint" for "shutting him down" after he doubled Brady's MVP performance (this performance was picked arbitrarily )

I think it's silly....

 

 

This argument is not about whether Rodgers had his best game, I've already said he didn't...

 

This is whether the Bears D has found the blueprint to "shut down" Rodgers....

 

I say that they didn't....

 

If you think that they did, I would like to see some X's and O's on how they shut Rodgers down and how it can be blueprinted by other teams around the league....

But I think you are giving the Chicago D way too much credit.... this game should have been over early and they were lucky that it wasn't...

That first drive was especially embarrassing...

 

 

HTH!

[kmbryant09 1]

Brady is an all-time great. He won an MVP trophy amassing half the yardage that Rodgers did.

No, he didn't have a receiver kick the ball up in the air for an INT on what should have been -- at the very worst -- an incomplete pass.

Yes, he had a short touchdown pass.... but Rodgers ran it in..... We'll call that a wash....

 

 

So, Brady accumulated less than half the yardage against a worse defense in a weather-controlled and non-hostile environment .... led his team to far more 3-and-outs and stalled drives.... yet I've never ever seen one person ever say that the Rams had the "blueprint" for "shutting him down"....

 

Why is that?

 

 

So, I have two conclusions left:

 

1)Brady can't hold Rodgers jock so it's unfair to compare them

2)Rodgers gets criticized unfairly after games..... People like you and Walter34 think that defenses have found the "blueprint" for "shutting him down" after he doubled Brady's MVP performance (this performance was picked arbitrarily )

I think it's silly....

 

 

This argument is not about whether Rodgers had his best game, I've already said he didn't...

 

This is whether the Bears D has found the blueprint to "shut down" Rodgers....

 

I say that they didn't....

 

If you think that they did, I would like to see some X's and O's on how they shut Rodgers down and how it can be blueprinted by other teams around the league....

But I think you are giving the Chicago D way too much credit.... this game should have been over early and they were lucky that it wasn't...

That first drive was especially embarrassing...

 

 

HTH!

Again, why are you comparing that performance of Brady's to Rodgers'? As of right now, Rodgers is an elite QB who wins a ton of games for the Green Bay Packers. At that SB MVP time, Brady was nothing more than a solid game manager who made a few big throws to support a top-notch DEF and ST's. He also didn't turn the ball over twice. He also led his team on a 50+ yard game-winning drive to win the SB. So again, why are you comparing the 2 like they were very similar performances?

 

And I've never said the Bears found a blueprint, or know how to stop Rodgers.

 

I'm arguing that Rodgers did not play a very good game. If you believe he played a good game, than I urge you to actually watch him when he puts up numbers. Rodgers missed a few throws. Threw a RedZone INT that nearly turned into a pick-6. Threw another pick on an unfortunately bounce that was caused by a terrible throw by Rodgers in the first place. He did absolutely nothing in the 2nd half, and missed 3 chances in the 4th quarter to put the game out of reach. Please give me your thoughts on these points...Not how 'Brady can't hold Rodgers' jocstrap (although I'm sure you'd love to hold it, maybe smell it if given the chance).

 

And you are right about one thing: This game could've/should've been over much, much earlier. Except the Bears DEF slowed Rodgers down, forced 2 INT's, and ZERO 2nd half points....Whether you want to give credit to the Bears' DEF, or say that Rodgers' missed opportunities, they both equate to Rodgers not having a good game.

[Walter34 3]

This is very true...

 

Where do you stand on Cutler? Not how he played in the Championship game, or the injury/non-injury...But do you believe he is the Bears 'franchise QB' of the next 7-10 years? I know he's better than a lot of other options, especially with how hard it is to find an elite QB. But can he LEAD a team to a SB ring? Can he lift a mediocre team to championship caliber? Everyone agrees he's below Manning, Brees, Rivers, Brady, Rodgers, Big Ben...but right now I can't put him ahead/with guys like Romo, Schaub, Ryan, Eli, and possibly a few others. At some point, doesn't that just make him an average QB?

 

People throw around the term franchise qb quite easily and too often. What does that mean exactly? No qb is flawless. SB rings are the product of a team effort. The qb, while a very important cog in the process, is just a part of a collective. The Bears this year had some large gaps in overall talent and over achieved. I doubt that elite qbs could have won a ring with the sub par oline and wrs and inconsistent offensive game plans in several games.

 

Brady, manning, Rapelisberger and others would not have won SBs if they didnt have elite support around them whether it be defence, skill players, coaching, special teams, etc. Football is a team game and the QB "leadership" is an overstated thing imo. The other 52 players and coaches arent sitting there waiting for the qbs rah rah speech. They all need to be leaders and motivated in order to win.

 

If areas around Cutler can improve, then yes, he can lead a team to a SB one day. If you look at Eli as an example, he is mediocre in overall starting qb talent (10th - 15th arguably) and makes more mistakes and turnovers than Cutler does. Outside of the one SB run, he has shown little "leadership" or stepping up when it counts. Just this year he choked away the eagles game and didn't show up for the Packer game when their season was on the line. But, he did have the 3 or 4 games in 2007 where it came together for him and his team. The defence stepped up and contained the Pats O and Eli executed on the big drive to win the SB. You have a player that "lead" his team to a SB in most people's view despite a mediocre career other than that run. The reality is that it took team stepping up and coming together and playing to their potential to win that SB, Eli included as one peice of that collective.

 

Jim McMahon was widely seen as a "leader". He was also less productive and more fragile than Cutler and many others. The concept that a team would go through a wall for him or other analogies are often thrown around. Ineteresting comparison here, but Jim's leadership happened to be leading what many consider to be the best single season team of all time. regardless of his play or what he did before or after, he is forever secure in historys eye as a leader and a SB champ.

 

Most agree that Cutler has the talent to succeed. he is likely the most talented Bears qb since Sid Luckman. Despite talent, he will need to rise above this controversy and keep his team in his camp. fans and media will continue to be split where he will have some strong support and some strong detractors. How does he deal with this and can he keep focused and moving forward? The team is squarely behind him for now, but he will need to rise above the "story" and keep them behind him. I agree with those that say a strong arm is good but not enough. He has work to do to improve his game. Improve the mechanics, improve the decision making, be more consistent and accurate. These are the things within his control that he has to improve on. He went from 26 INts down to 16. He needs to continue to a better turnover number, but is heading in the right direction.

 

The bottom line with the SB ring is that the Bears team overall needs to improve to get there. The oline and wrs are below average. While the defence is good, it is not great. Martz needs to be smarter in his game planning and jay needs to be smarter in executing the plan.

 

You ask can he lift a mediocre team to a championship? I dont think any qb today can. Mediocre teams dont win championships.

[Walter34 3]

Brady is an all-time great. He won an MVP trophy amassing half the yardage that Rodgers did.

No, he didn't have a receiver kick the ball up in the air for an INT on what should have been -- at the very worst -- an incomplete pass.

Yes, he had a short touchdown pass.... but Rodgers ran it in..... We'll call that a wash....

 

 

So, Brady accumulated less than half the yardage against a worse defense in a weather-controlled and non-hostile environment .... led his team to far more 3-and-outs and stalled drives.... yet I've never ever seen one person ever say that the Rams had the "blueprint" for "shutting him down"....

 

Why is that?

 

 

So, I have two conclusions left:

 

1)Brady can't hold Rodgers jock so it's unfair to compare them

2)Rodgers gets criticized unfairly after games..... People like you and Walter34 think that defenses have found the "blueprint" for "shutting him down" after he doubled Brady's MVP performance (this performance was picked arbitrarily )

I think it's silly....

 

 

This argument is not about whether Rodgers had his best game, I've already said he didn't...

 

This is whether the Bears D has found the blueprint to "shut down" Rodgers....

 

I say that they didn't....

 

If you think that they did, I would like to see some X's and O's on how they shut Rodgers down and how it can be blueprinted by other teams around the league....

But I think you are giving the Chicago D way too much credit.... this game should have been over early and they were lucky that it wasn't...

That first drive was especially embarrassing...

 

 

HTH!

 

Wow Don - obviously a nerve was hit. The question I posed (and it was a question, not a statement of opinion and fact) was:

 

Was Rogers shut down and was this a blueprint?

 

Clearly he had a great first drive and 1st quarter. The GB offence however stunk it up for the entire 2nd half. The one 2nd half drive that Rogers generated ended in the boneheaded INT to Urlacher. GB generated an impressive 49 yards on offence in the last 6 possessions or 25 minutes of play in what was a 1 D game. So why was that?

 

Either the Bears D stepped up or Rodgers stunk it up or a combo of both.

 

Shut down is too strong of a word. What I intended was that the Bears D has contained Rodgers or limited his awesomeness. Not just this game, but over the past couple of years.

 

In the past 5 GB - Chi games (last two years), Rodgers has had an 83 qb rating. During this time his overall qb rating is well over 100. An 83 rating is not sucking, but it certainly is not great.

 

What the Bears D does is take away the big play. They force teams to take the small stuff and work their way down field with 10-15 play drives. While doing so, they need to win the one on one battles down low. The 4 man line needs to get pressure and the underneath coverage needs to defend the less than 10 yard area mostly in one on one coverage. The over the top coverage needs to anticipate and make the quick decisions on where their support needs to be.

 

Rogers has been contained against this D over the past two years. While putting up gaudy stats against others, he hasn't sniffed a 100 rating against the Bears in recent games.

[donhaas 18]

Shut down is too strong of a word. What I intended was that the Bears D has contained Rodgers or limited his awesomeness. Not just this game, but over the past couple of years.

 

Yeah.... we kinda exhausted this discussion...

 

I would say the last game.... the "vanilla defense game" was much better evidence of "blueprints" and "shutting down" Rodgers and whatnot.... I did not see anything spectacular from the Bears defense in the NFC Championship game...

 

This was a cold weather game on a fifth-grade field against a great defensive team in hostile territory.... already you know this game was going to be graded on a curve.... it wasn't going to be the ATL game.

 

Rodgers tore apart that defense enough in that first 3 quarters to have an insurmountable lead in this game.... there was just little to no defensive resistence outside of an extremely flukey INT and a bonehead play by Rodgers....

 

 

The Packers went into a shell... they've done it many times this year in the fourth quarter and against far worse defenses than the Bears this year.... I hate it, but they let the defense win the game...

 

And now they're in the Super Bowl...

 

Let's not break our arms patting ourselves on the back if we are the Chicago Defense just yet, gentlemen...

 

 

This game was going to be grinder.... on a terrible field, cold weather, and knowing that Cutler has struggled immensely versus the Packers, it was imperative that the Chicago defense get off to a great start...Vitally important.... they needed to so CHI could stick to running the ball and play their brand of ball at home...

 

And the Chicago defense failed miserably in what I still contend was THE most important drive of the game...

86 yards in 3 and a half minutes

 

And they failed for most of 3 quarters....

 

 

So when somebody essentially argues 55.4=55.4-=55.4 to talk about a "blueprint" for shutting down Rodgers ..... it shows a lack of ability to watch a football game....

 

Pure X's and O's.... the Bear defensive backs could not cover Packer WRs... the defensive line could not generate a pass rush on Rodgers whatsoever, and even Starks was very effective against the #1 ranked run defense (74 yards in a half and two minutes).... The Packer offense saw little resistance during most of the game... until they shelled up at the end

This was not a defensive blueprint for anything.... Burn this tape

[Walter34 3]

Yeah.... we kinda exhausted this discussion...

 

I would say the last game.... the "vanilla defense game" was much better evidence of "blueprints" and "shutting down" Rodgers and whatnot.... I did not see anything spectacular from the Bears defense in the NFC Championship game...

 

This was a cold weather game on a fifth-grade field against a great defensive team in hostile territory.... already you know this game was going to be graded on a curve.... it wasn't going to be the ATL game.

 

Rodgers tore apart that defense enough in that first 3 quarters to have an insurmountable lead in this game.... there was just little to no defensive resistence outside of an extremely flukey INT and a bonehead play by Rodgers....

 

 

The Packers went into a shell... they've done it many times this year in the fourth quarter and against far worse defenses than the Bears this year.... I hate it, but they let the defense win the game...

 

And now they're in the Super Bowl...

 

Let's not break our arms patting ourselves on the back if we are the Chicago Defense just yet, gentlemen...

 

 

This game was going to be grinder.... on a terrible field, cold weather, and knowing that Cutler has struggled immensely versus the Packers, it was imperative that the Chicago defense get off to a great start...Vitally important.... they needed to so CHI could stick to running the ball and play their brand of ball at home...

 

And the Chicago defense failed miserably in what I still contend was THE most important drive of the game...

86 yards in 3 and a half minutes

 

And they failed for most of 3 quarters....

 

 

So when somebody essentially argues 55.4=55.4-=55.4 to talk about a "blueprint" for shutting down Rodgers ..... it shows a lack of ability to watch a football game....

 

Pure X's and O's.... the Bear defensive backs could not cover Packer WRs... the defensive line could not generate a pass rush on Rodgers whatsoever, and even Starks was very effective against the #1 ranked run defense (74 yards in a half and two minutes).... The Packer offense saw little resistance during most of the game... until they shelled up at the end

This was not a defensive blueprint for anything.... Burn this tape

 

Your green and old goggles are impairing your ability to read. It wasnt 3 quarters of up and down the foeld, it was the first half. The 2nd half, either he sucked or the Bears D stepped up - its one or the other or both.

 

I totally agree that the Bears D was rolled throughout the first half - that is not debatable.

 

You asked for Xs and Os and I gave them to you.

 

Beyond this one game, Rodgers has performed at a much lower level against the Bears D - average of an 83 rating over 5 games. This is a legit trend rather than a one game anomoly. Not shut down, but definately contained or limited. Yes, you had a drive or two here and there, but look at the big picture.

[donhaas 18]

Your green and old goggles are impairing your ability to read. It wasnt 3 quarters of up and down the foeld, it was the first half. The 2nd half, either he sucked or the Bears D stepped up - its one or the other or both.

 

I totally agree that the Bears D was rolled throughout the first half - that is not debatable.

 

You asked for Xs and Os and I gave them to you.

 

Beyond this one game, Rodgers has performed at a much lower level against the Bears D - average of an 83 rating over 5 games. This is a legit trend rather than a one game anomoly. Not shut down, but definately contained or limited. Yes, you had a drive or two here and there, but look at the big picture.

 

 

There were at least 3 passes by Rodgers over 20 yards in the third quarter..... It wasn't as good as the first half.... but it wasn't shutting him down or a blueprint, either....

 

 

I agree that the Bears defense has done a great job with Rodgers compared to the rest of the league -- for a variety of reasons... familiarity, field, weather, and the fact that they are a very solid defense....

 

 

I am just less enamored with their effort in the NFC Championship Game then you and kmbryant are....

 

That's all

[Walter34 3]

There were at least 3 passes by Rodgers over 20 yards in the third quarter..... It wasn't as good as the first half.... but it wasn't shutting him down or a blueprint, either....

 

 

I agree that the Bears defense has done a great job with Rodgers compared to the rest of the league -- for a variety of reasons... familiarity, field, weather, and the fact that they are a very solid defense....

 

 

I am just less enamored with their effort in the NFC Championship Game then you and kmbryant are....

 

That's all

 

Fair enough, but for the record, here is the 2nd half drives which includes any rushing yards as well as passing:

 

Drive 1 - 77 yds (urlacher INT)

Drive 2 - 17 yds (punt)

Drive 3 - (-8 yds) (punt)

Drive 4 - 33 yds (punt)

Drive 5 - 9 yds (punt)

Drive 6 - (-1 yd) (punt)

Drive 7 - (-1 yd) (kneel down)

 

That is a shutdown.

[donhaas 18]

Not shut down, but definately contained or limited. Yes, you had a drive or two here and there, but look at the big picture.

 

Last point... Yes, the Bears have something to build on... But remember... their best defensive game was pre-Starks... the Packer had no running game. They were one-dimensional. That will never happen again. You saw how much better the Packer overall offense was in the championship game with a hint (and a threat) of a running game...

 

So the next time the Packers and Bears play, they will have Ryan Grant AND a Starks with some experience...

They will also have Jermichael Finley, who completely puts a monkeywrench in all defensive plans, but that is a whole other topic...

 

On the plus side, the Bears will have Caleb Hanie at the helm.... so that should be an upgrade

[Walter34 3]

Last point... Yes, the Bears have something to build on... But remember... their best defensive game was pre-Starks... the Packer had no running game. They were one-dimensional. That will never happen again. You saw how much better the Packer overall offense was in the championship game with a hint (and a threat) of a running game...

 

So the next time the Packers and Bears play, they will have Ryan Grant AND a Starks with some experience...

They will also have Jermichael Finley, who completely puts a monkeywrench in all defensive plans, but that is a whole other topic...

 

On the plus side, the Bears will have Caleb Hanie at the helm.... so that should be an upgrade

 

Agreed on the need for a running game and the finley factor.

 

The GB oline needs to get better too though. No one is denying that they have a great offence overall and that Rodgers is stellar. You can't not like the guy on and off the field despite his gay TD celebrations.

 

The point was that the defensive strategy employed by Chi has been somewhat effective in keeping Rodgers to reasonable production. Part of that is all the factors that you mentioned as well - field, tough D, familiarity etc.

 

Limiting the big play and forcing long drives where you need to be consistent for 12-15 plays to score keeps the game close and creates the opportunity for GB to make mistakes.

 

The Bears will need to improve on D to compete next year. Peppers, urlacher and Briggs will ensure that they are a good D, but they need to be better at other spots to get to the next level - better inside pressure, better safety play in particular.

[kmbryant09 1]

People throw around the term franchise qb quite easily and too often. What does that mean exactly? No qb is flawless. SB rings are the product of a team effort. The qb, while a very important cog in the process, is just a part of a collective. The Bears this year had some large gaps in overall talent and over achieved. I doubt that elite qbs could have won a ring with the sub par oline and wrs and inconsistent offensive game plans in several games.

 

Brady, manning, Rapelisberger and others would not have won SBs if they didnt have elite support around them whether it be defence, skill players, coaching, special teams, etc. Football is a team game and the QB "leadership" is an overstated thing imo. The other 52 players and coaches arent sitting there waiting for the qbs rah rah speech. They all need to be leaders and motivated in order to win.

 

If areas around Cutler can improve, then yes, he can lead a team to a SB one day. If you look at Eli as an example, he is mediocre in overall starting qb talent (10th - 15th arguably) and makes more mistakes and turnovers than Cutler does. Outside of the one SB run, he has shown little "leadership" or stepping up when it counts. Just this year he choked away the eagles game and didn't show up for the Packer game when their season was on the line. But, he did have the 3 or 4 games in 2007 where it came together for him and his team. The defence stepped up and contained the Pats O and Eli executed on the big drive to win the SB. You have a player that "lead" his team to a SB in most people's view despite a mediocre career other than that run. The reality is that it took team stepping up and coming together and playing to their potential to win that SB, Eli included as one peice of that collective.

 

Jim McMahon was widely seen as a "leader". He was also less productive and more fragile than Cutler and many others. The concept that a team would go through a wall for him or other analogies are often thrown around. Ineteresting comparison here, but Jim's leadership happened to be leading what many consider to be the best single season team of all time. regardless of his play or what he did before or after, he is forever secure in historys eye as a leader and a SB champ.

 

Most agree that Cutler has the talent to succeed. he is likely the most talented Bears qb since Sid Luckman. Despite talent, he will need to rise above this controversy and keep his team in his camp. fans and media will continue to be split where he will have some strong support and some strong detractors. How does he deal with this and can he keep focused and moving forward? The team is squarely behind him for now, but he will need to rise above the "story" and keep them behind him. I agree with those that say a strong arm is good but not enough. He has work to do to improve his game. Improve the mechanics, improve the decision making, be more consistent and accurate. These are the things within his control that he has to improve on. He went from 26 INts down to 16. He needs to continue to a better turnover number, but is heading in the right direction.

 

The bottom line with the SB ring is that the Bears team overall needs to improve to get there. The oline and wrs are below average. While the defence is good, it is not great. Martz needs to be smarter in his game planning and jay needs to be smarter in executing the plan.

 

You ask can he lift a mediocre team to a championship? I dont think any qb today can. Mediocre teams dont win championships.

I understand your point, and appreciate your response. I would love to see Peyton Manning with that kind of defense and special teams. And while he's had more offensive weapons than Cutler, Manning made guys like Jacob Tamme & Blair White look like legit NFL starters, so I think he'd be okay with Knox/Hester/Olsen/Aromashadu/Bennett.

 

But anyways...obviously the NFL has transitioned into more of a passing league, which has placed a great emphasis on having a 'franchise QB'. I think the Trent-Dilfer-lead-Ravens days are over...since then, look who's won the SB's: Brady, Rapeburger, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Drew Brees (I throw out the Brad Johnson/Bucs game because that was all about Jon Gruden). But you see my point.

 

I know what you're saying about Eli, but you actually countered your own argument. He's at least shown, on the biggest stage of his career, that he can lead a team to a SB. I know those things are hard to predict BEFORE they actually happen, but Cutler just blew his best chance to do just that.

 

One final point - I agree whole-heartedly that the QB position is just a part of the collective. That's partly why I feel like ring-less QB's catch way too much sh!t, and guys like Brady/Bradshaw/Big Ben get crowned King. But regardless of how valuable the position is, a QB must deliver when it matters. Whether it be to lead his team down the field for a TD-winning drive...Or to simply not turn the ball over, convert a few first downs, manage the game, etc. etc. They need to deliver, moreso than any other position on the field.

 

I know you said the Bears over-achieved, which may be true based on pre-season expectations...But this is a very solid team. Sure they need some OLine/secondary (?) help, but their DEF is one of the best in the league, they've got the all-time greatest return man, and enough impact players on the offensive side of the ball (Cutler, Forte, Olsen) to succeed in the NFL. It's not like Cutler was the difference maker all season, the defense and special teams really came through. And I can't help but wonder what a leader like Manning, Brees, or Brady could've done with those factors working in their favor.

[Walter34 3]

I understand your point, and appreciate your response. I would love to see Peyton Manning with that kind of defense and special teams. And while he's had more offensive weapons than Cutler, Manning made guys like Jacob Tamme & Blair White look like legit NFL starters, so I think he'd be okay with Knox/Hester/Olsen/Aromashadu/Bennett.

 

But anyways...obviously the NFL has transitioned into more of a passing league, which has placed a great emphasis on having a 'franchise QB'. I think the Trent-Dilfer-lead-Ravens days are over...since then, look who's won the SB's: Brady, Rapeburger, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Drew Brees (I throw out the Brad Johnson/Bucs game because that was all about Jon Gruden). But you see my point.

 

I know what you're saying about Eli, but you actually countered your own argument. He's at least shown, on the biggest stage of his career, that he can lead a team to a SB. I know those things are hard to predict BEFORE they actually happen, but Cutler just blew his best chance to do just that.

 

One final point - I agree whole-heartedly that the QB position is just a part of the collective. That's partly why I feel like ring-less QB's catch way too much sh!t, and guys like Brady/Bradshaw/Big Ben get crowned King. But regardless of how valuable the position is, a QB must deliver when it matters. Whether it be to lead his team down the field for a TD-winning drive...Or to simply not turn the ball over, convert a few first downs, manage the game, etc. etc. They need to deliver, moreso than any other position on the field.

 

I know you said the Bears over-achieved, which may be true based on pre-season expectations...But this is a very solid team. Sure they need some OLine/secondary (?) help, but their DEF is one of the best in the league, they've got the all-time greatest return man, and enough impact players on the offensive side of the ball (Cutler, Forte, Olsen) to succeed in the NFL. It's not like Cutler was the difference maker all season, the defense and special teams really came through. And I can't help but wonder what a leader like Manning, Brees, or Brady could've done with those factors working in their favor.

 

Just to be clear, I'm not giving Cutler a pass on his crappy performance. He sucked, plain and simple in a big game. I was more addressing what he needs to do and his prospects for the future. For now, I am hopeful that he will get there and think he is better than 2\3 of the starting qbs today.

 

You also mentioned Romo, Schaub and Ryan as comparables. What have they accomplished? Schaub has never made the playoffs, Romo has 1 win and Ryan has done squat during clutch time. I'm not saying its their fault, but I wouldn't raise them up if the premise is grand stage performance and clutch play.