donhaas 18 Posted February 21, 2011 No that it really matters one way or another, but , are you by any chance a teacher, or somehow connected to this situation in some way? You seem to have information, but only that which appears to have been slanted toward one side of the equation. No. Not a teacher... I am just able to get my information from more than one source... When you initially came in, it was something akin to "these lazy teachers" or "yeah, now they are just like the public sector*.... quit whining"..[i am paraphrasing]. just indicating to me that maybe you were part of this anti-teacher/anti-state worker slant -- the vicious hatred that I have seen more of this past week than I had in my life up to this point.... There did not seem to be sound reasoning and I simply tried to point out that there was much more to the story than lazy teachers and their golden cadillacs and shifty unions and protesters hating America and such.... If you are truly left of these loonies than you can do your own research and come to your own conclusion.... This board is full of righty fanatics, I'm just giving you the other side *state workers take significantly less money for the benefits (which are now gone) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
donhaas 18 Posted February 21, 2011 You have no idea how much we are all laughing at you, do you. Nope! Thanks for stopping by Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IMMensaMind 460 Posted February 21, 2011 No. Not a teacher... I am just able to get my information from more than one source... When you initially came in, it was something akin to "these lazy teachers" or "yeah, now they are just like the public sector*.... quit whining"..[i am paraphrasing]. just indicating to me that maybe you were part of this anti-teacher/anti-state worker slant -- the vicious hatred that I have seen more of this past week than I had in my life up to this point.... There did not seem to be sound reasoning and I simply tried to point out that there was much more to the story than lazy teachers and their golden cadillacs and shifty unions and protesters hating America and such.... If you are truly left of these loonies than you can do your own research and come to your own conclusion.... This board is full of righty fanatics, I'm just giving you the other side *state workers take significantly less money for the benefits (which are now gone) One of your sources was clearly not USA Today, you incompetent fuckpuddle: Federal Pay AHEAD of Private Pay Federal employees earn higher average salaries than private-sector workers in more than eight out of 10 occupations, a USA TODAY analysis of federal data finds. Accountants, nurses, chemists, surveyors, cooks, clerks and janitors are among the wide range of jobs that get paid more on average in the federal government than in the private sector. Overall, federal workers earned an average salary of $67,691 in 2008 for occupations that exist both in government and the private sector, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data. The average pay for the same mix of jobs in the private sector was $60,046 in 2008, the most recent data available. These salary figures do not include the value of health, pension and other benefits, which averaged $40,785 per federal employee in 2008 vs. $9,882 per private worker, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. Have a Cup of Shut The Fuck Up, DunceHaas. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
donhaas 18 Posted February 21, 2011 I enjoy your run-on incorrectness. Are you settled down? You were getting kinda excited there for awhile.... that's not good for your blood pressure Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 5,944 Posted February 21, 2011 The upper 1% of wage earners have made out like bandits over the past ten years, so let's balance the budget on the backs of teachers and other unions types - makes perfect sense! I love America so much that I want it to resemble India's caste system. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phurfur 70 Posted February 21, 2011 No. Not a teacher... I am just able to get my information from more than one source... When you initially came in, it was something akin to "these lazy teachers" or "yeah, now they are just like the public sector*.... quit whining"..[i am paraphrasing]. just indicating to me that maybe you were part of this anti-teacher/anti-state worker slant -- the vicious hatred that I have seen more of this past week than I had in my life up to this point.... There did not seem to be sound reasoning and I simply tried to point out that there was much more to the story than lazy teachers and their golden cadillacs and shifty unions and protesters hating America and such.... If you are truly left of these loonies than you can do your own research and come to your own conclusion.... This board is full of righty fanatics, I'm just giving you the other side *state workers take significantly less money for the benefits (which are now gone) Keep up the lies and deception comrade. I am just curiuos to see if there is a COLA this year, we could use the extra money. Thanks again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
donhaas 18 Posted February 21, 2011 Have a Cup of Shut The Fuck Up, DunceHaas. FeelingMN will come along and clean up your mistakes and misfacts again.... I don't have time... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 21, 2011 You have no idea Shoulda stopped right there. The rest of your post was unnecesary wear and tear on your keyboard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IMMensaMind 460 Posted February 21, 2011 Are you settled down? You were getting kinda excited there for awhile.... that's not good for your blood pressure I don't have a blood pressure problem. You're a stooge troll. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phurfur 70 Posted February 21, 2011 The upper 1% of wage earners have made out like bandits over the past ten years, so let's balance the budget on the backs of teachers and other unions types - makes perfect sense! I love America so much that I want it to resemble India's caste system. Keep up the fight, we retirees need as much support and money as you can give us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IMMensaMind 460 Posted February 21, 2011 FeelingMN will come along and clean up your mistakes and misfacts again.... I don't have any brains... You're playing without a net this time, duncehaas. There is nothing to refute in that report. It directly calls you on your BS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 21, 2011 The upper 1% of wage earners have made out like bandits over the past ten years, so let's balance the budget on the backs of teachers and other unions types - makes perfect sense! I love America so much that I want it to resemble India's caste system. The top 1% payed a higher percentage of the total tax bill AFTER the Bush tax cuts than the percentage they paid before the Bush tax cuts. Don't let facts get in the way of a good Olberman talking point rant Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 5,340 Posted February 21, 2011 donhaas reminds me of torridjoe, quixotically chasing a windmill of "facts" he created in DonWorld. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
donhaas 18 Posted February 21, 2011 You're playing without a net this time, duncehaas. There is nothing to refute in that report. It directly calls you on your BS. Your recap of the report was completely incorrect.... FeelingMN pointed it out... But you still said "OWN!," anyways Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
donhaas 18 Posted February 21, 2011 donhaas reminds me of torridjoe, quixotically chasing a windmill of "facts" he created in DonWorld. Let's hear your opinion on what's going on in Wisconsin right now then... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted February 21, 2011 No that it really matters one way or another, but , are you by any chance a teacher, or somehow connected to this situation in some way? You seem to have information, but only that which appears to have been slanted toward one side of the equation. I think he mentioned earlier in the thread that his male life partner is a teacher. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 21, 2011 Let's hear your opinion on what's going on in Wisconsin right now then... Another boxing match? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 5,340 Posted February 21, 2011 Let's hear your opinion on what's going on in Wisconsin right now then... My opinion, which doesn't make for good bored debate, is that there is plenty of "blame" on both sides. The union snubbed their nose at the proposals a few months ago, and now they are doing a 180. The governor could take this opportunity to negotiate with the union but it is pretty clear he wants to break it. I think that every lawmaker who fled the state should be fired, impeached, whatever the proper word is. I am not a fan of unions in general, but especially so for public sector employees. Unions "work" in a truly adversarial process; the problem is that there has not really been an adversary for them in the public sector. They contribute to legislators, who historically have approved disproportionately high benefits and passed the costs onto future taxpayers. It is a cycle which needs to stop. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
donhaas 18 Posted February 21, 2011 My opinion, which doesn't make for good bored debate, is that there is plenty of "blame" on both sides. The union snubbed their nose at the proposals a few months ago, and now they are doing a 180. The governor could take this opportunity to negotiate with the union but it is pretty clear he wants to break it. I think that every lawmaker who fled the state should be fired, impeached, whatever the proper word is. I am not a fan of unions in general, but especially so for public sector employees. Unions "work" in a truly adversarial process; the problem is that there has not really been an adversary for them in the public sector. They contribute to legislators, who historically have approved disproportionately high benefits and passed the costs onto future taxpayers. It is a cycle which needs to stop. I think taking the right to collective bargain away is too drastic. I don't believe that organized labor is the panacea that some seem to think. But it is a useful balance in the scheme of things, even if it sometimes acts in nefarious ways. I believe that teachers are much more important than most people on this board.... I believe that good teachers and good schools is what makes Wisconsin so great.... (I'm not a teacher nor do I have one in my family ) I believe there are about 40 far worse things that are much more expensive and wasteful than teachers that Republicans won't say "boo" about until FOXNews tells them to do so.. I believe that the hatred of middle-class workers is being orchestrated from above... I listened to Limbaugh the other day and could not believe the lies and hatred he was spewing... I believe that if we are really in "crisis" we should cut across the board.... include fire and police Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted February 21, 2011 Any teacher who uses those fraudulent doctors notes for sick time should be fired. As well as the doctor licenses revoked.....that'll learn the bas-tards Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 22, 2011 I think taking the right to collective bargain away is too drastic. You and your fellow WI libs shoulda elected more libs. How's it feel being along for the ride? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GettnHuge 1 Posted February 22, 2011 just saw Bernie on oreilly point out all the stories and comments from the media about there being so many whites at tea party rallies... course when you see the minnysota protesters, they are whiter than white. but this time its ok Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lagarzlebrew 0 Posted February 22, 2011 I'll reply, and I have mixed views on this... My wife is a teacher, and I am a public employee. We both have Master's Degrees, and work over 40 hours a week. My wife gets about 12 weeks a year off, and makes about 65K, which when you figure out the per hour rate it is probably about 40-45 bucks an hour. I am a salaried employee, and work 52 weeks a year, about 50 hours a week, and get 16 days of vacation a year. I make about 70K We are in our mid-thirties and have been in our same jobs for 12-13 years each We live well, not rich at all, but not struggling either. There are a lot of things I do not like about unions, and we are both in them. If I do a great job, I cant get financially rewarded, or can she. I would prefer that option similar to the private sector. As for health care and pensions - I pay $50/month for a mid-range single policy with a $600 deductible and a $1100 our of pocket max, wife pays $300 a month for a family policy which covers our three kids. Her teachers union plan is better than mine. It is not free by a long shot. For pensions - I pay about 6% of my salary and so does my employer, and I have a deferred comp plan which the employer gives nothing to. My wife contributes about 5% of her slaary to her plan, employer about 6%. Overall I lean right on fiscal issues, and feel that for the most part unions for public employees are not really needed. If the public sector jobs were to get too bad then people would just stop working there and get a job somewhere else. I do think it is weak to blame the public employees for all the budget issues, there are many factors involved. Bottom line is that if I worked in the private sector I could make more money, but I enjoy my profession and so does my wife. But make no mistake, there are many public sector employees that unions protect, which I do not agree with at all, everyone should be held to a high standard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 3,406 Posted February 22, 2011 Looks like the Koch brothers are paying for the anti-union protesters in Wisconsin. These are the same guys who were behind the supposedly "grass roots" Tea Party movement: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/22/us/22koch.html?hp I'm not a huge fan of unions, but I'm pretty sure that any enemy of the Koch brothers is a friend of mine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IMMensaMind 460 Posted February 22, 2011 Your recap of the report was completely incorrect.... FeelingMN pointed it out... But you still said "OWN!," anyways 1) I never said "own". You made that up as well. 2) The USA Today article proves that your claim that public sector employees earn less than comparable private sector employees is utter BS. We've also established that your claim that teachers make 32K/yr is also complete BS. 3) You're a loser troll. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GettnHuge 1 Posted February 22, 2011 I'll reply, and I have mixed views on this... My wife is a teacher, and I am a public employee. We both have Master's Degrees, and work over 40 hours a week. My wife gets about 12 weeks a year off, and makes about 65K, which when you figure out the per hour rate it is probably about 40-45 bucks an hour. I am a salaried employee, and work 52 weeks a year, about 50 hours a week, and get 16 days of vacation a year. I make about 70K We are in our mid-thirties and have been in our same jobs for 12-13 years each We live well, not rich at all, but not struggling either. There are a lot of things I do not like about unions, and we are both in them. If I do a great job, I cant get financially rewarded, or can she. I would prefer that option similar to the private sector. As for health care and pensions - I pay $50/month for a mid-range single policy with a $600 deductible and a $1100 our of pocket max, wife pays $300 a month for a family policy which covers our three kids. Her teachers union plan is better than mine. It is not free by a long shot. For pensions - I pay about 6% of my salary and so does my employer, and I have a deferred comp plan which the employer gives nothing to. My wife contributes about 5% of her slaary to her plan, employer about 6%. Overall I lean right on fiscal issues, and feel that for the most part unions for public employees are not really needed. If the public sector jobs were to get too bad then people would just stop working there and get a job somewhere else. I do think it is weak to blame the public employees for all the budget issues, there are many factors involved. Bottom line is that if I worked in the private sector I could make more money, but I enjoy my profession and so does my wife. But make no mistake, there are many public sector employees that unions protect, which I do not agree with at all, everyone should be held to a high standard. the union peeps I see and deal with live right up to the stereotype. The 20yr guys get paid a lot and don't do anything, the newer guys work their azzes off, and get paid much less. The unproductive guys can't be gotten rid of as long as they show up and don't do anything seriously wrong, and the productive guys can't get any financial reward because of the 'we're all in this together' garbage of supporting the old jackazzez. Either everyone gets a raise, or nobody does. The big lie is how they stand between the worker and the evils of management, because a company still has rules on how employees are treated. Just like the state of wisconsin has laws protecting these teachers, union or no union that doesn't change Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lagarzlebrew 0 Posted February 22, 2011 the union peeps I see and deal with live right up to the stereotype. The 20yr guys get paid a lot and don't do anything, the newer guys work their azzes off, and get paid much less. The unproductive guys can't be gotten rid of as long as they show up and don't do anything seriously wrong, and the productive guys can't get any financial reward because of the 'we're all in this together' garbage of supporting the old jackazzez. Either everyone gets a raise, or nobody does. The big lie is how they stand between the worker and the evils of management, because a company still has rules on how employees are treated. Just like the state of wisconsin has laws protecting these teachers, union or no union that doesn't change Totally agree with this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted February 22, 2011 http://www.breitbart.tv/crowder-union-superpowers-featuring-wisconsin-vern/ Funny and true Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 22, 2011 Looks like the Koch brothers are paying for the anti-union protesters in Wisconsin. These are the same guys who were behind the supposedly "grass roots" Tea Party movement: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/22/us/22koch.html?hp I'm not a huge fan of unions, but I'm pretty sure that any enemy of the Koch brothers is a friend of mine. Good for them. We need more grass roots efforts like this. We also need someone to counter the DNC, Jesse Jackson, and their rent-a-mobs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
donhaas 18 Posted February 22, 2011 1) I never said "own". You made that up as well. OK.... You said "FAIL"... I guess BLS knee-jerkingly came in and said "OWN" soonafter not even bothering to look at your post and your inability to do simple math.... I stand corrected.... But I'm glad FeelingMN corrects the crap that you spew.... I simply don't have the time.... 2 out of 5 states that have made collective bargaining illegal scored above the National Average in ACT testing. fail. Even his first link is questionable. The National Average Composite Score is 21.0. Only North Carolina(21.9) and Virginia(22.3) scored above that number. Don't know where 4 out of 5 scored above average comes from. Ha.... now that I look at it you changed your post from "4" to "2" Own up to your mistakes, IMMStrugglingwithBasicMath.... don't try to act like they never happened... This is awesome! Your dooshbagedness knows no bounds Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 22, 2011 So 40% of the top 5 have outlawed collective bargaining. Seems to blow your "Collective bargaining = better grades" theory out of the water. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
donhaas 18 Posted February 22, 2011 So 40% of the top 5 have outlawed collective bargaining. Seems to blow your "Collective bargaining = better grades" theory out of the water. You're just making things worse.... IMClumsilyTryingToCoverUpMyUtterIncompetence is a big boy (6'3" 1/2).... your boyfriend can handle himself ... he doesn't need his girlfriend coming in and making things worse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted February 22, 2011 You're just making things worse. Not sure how it can get any worse for you and your puzzy, AWOL libtard lawmakers in WI. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted February 22, 2011 You're just making things worse.... IMClumsilyTryingToCoverUpMyUtterIncompetence is a big boy (6'3" 1/2).... your boyfriend can handle himself ... he doesn't need his girlfriend coming in and making things worse are you the boy or girl in your relationship with feelingmn? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
donhaas 18 Posted February 22, 2011 Don't forget me in this gay love triangle!!! I didn't.... you can give comfort to IMDeletingMyBadMath, too However you Minneapolis bathroom stall Republicans choose to do that... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted February 22, 2011 I didn't.... you can give comfort to IMDeletingMyBadMath, too However you Minneapolis bathroom stall Republicans choose to do that... You're unfunnyness is unstoppable Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phurfur 70 Posted February 22, 2011 I don’t know exactly what is going on in Wisconsin today but for Retired State of Wisconsin Union Employees and lawmakers, life is good. Be proud Wisconsin, you treat your employees much better than you treat yourself. You have the insight and knowledge to know where to spend your money. We are more important than any of you and you would be lost without us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 5,944 Posted February 22, 2011 State Pensions are out of control and public unions need reform, but unions in general are a good thing and ensure that workers are compensated fairly. The demise of unions is one reason why average worker salaries have been stagnant or gone down over the past 30 years and the middle class is shrinking quick while they upper percentiles take in a greater and greater share of the wealth. As usual the parties in charge are trying to balance the ledger on the backs of the working stiff. The irony of the Teabagger Party is that they consider themselves patriots and advocate deregulation and tax cuts for the rich ... but their policies allow businesses to ship jobs overseas and create a class system that looks more like India than the United States. In that way, the Teabaggers are useful idiots of billionaires who want to dupe middle class rubes into not only getting fvcking in the ass, but liking it and asking for more. Maybe when enough families fall out of the middle class, the people who are reflexively anti-union will reconsider the benefits of organized labor. It leads to a lot of abuses but it also guarantees a certain standard of living for US workers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IMMensaMind 460 Posted February 22, 2011 http://www.breitbart.tv/crowder-union-superpowers-featuring-wisconsin-vern/ Funny and true Ha! That was great! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
