Obama executing American citizens without giving them a trial.

[MDC 7,737]

I used to find it alarming that people would defend things like torture and assassinations in the name of safety, but at this point I just accept that the American public will accept any lies or actions by its government so long as it makes them feel safe so this thread is just par for the course. We've been sold on the idea of a neverending war and the whole world's a battlefield, so anything our government does is now justified. When I hear GOPers wax poetic about the Constitution I have to laugh. A mandate to buy health insurance is unconstitutional but government assassinations of US citizens is a-okay as long as the suspect is brown and has a creepy name ... heh.

[nikki2200 4]

Are you aware of how many innocent people are on the no fly lists in this country? Even congresspeople have been erroneously added to those lists.

 

What does the no fly list have to do with killing a terrorist living in the mountains of Yemen?

[Strike 5,917]

What does the no fly list have to do with killing a terrorist living in the mountains of Yemen?

 

Because he was killed based upon being on a "list." You seem to trust our government not to put the wrong person on that "list" despite apparently agreeing with me that our government has made mistakes on other terrorist related lists.

[nikki2200 4]

Because he was killed based upon being on a "list." You seem to trust our government not to put the wrong person on that "list" despite apparently agreeing with me that our government has made mistakes on other terrorist related lists.

 

So you're saying after a 2 year manhunt, years of failed attempts at extradition by both the Yemeni and US governments, and god knows how many millions of dollars on surveillance and military operations against this guy including two failed airstrikes trying to take him out, you're saying it's possible that they got the wrong guy? That's like the equivalent of accidentally bombing the wrong country because of a miscommunication. You said Serbia? I thought you said Libya. Oops.

 

Retarded.

 

You also realize that he was killed, not because his name was on a list, but because after years of intel we were able to determine he was a prominent al-Qaeda leader and that he recruited the operative and planned the underwear bombing, right?

[GobbleDog 1,009]

I'm sure they got the right guy and I'm sure he deserved it.

 

 

I just not sure it was legal.

[NewbieJr 541]

Because he was killed based upon being on a "list." You seem to trust our government not to put the wrong person on that "list" despite apparently agreeing with me that our government has made mistakes on other terrorist related lists.

Way more than I trust political hacks like you and RP. There's one less dangerous terrorist on the earth today. Thank you for protecting lives Mr President.

[nikki2200 4]

I used to find it alarming that people would defend things like torture and assassinations in the name of safety, but at this point I just accept that the American public will accept any lies or actions by its government so long as it makes them feel safe so this thread is just par for the course. We've been sold on the idea of a neverending war and the whole world's a battlefield, so anything our government does is now justified. When I hear GOPers wax poetic about the Constitution I have to laugh. A mandate to buy health insurance is unconstitutional but government assassinations of US citizens is a-okay as long as the suspect is brown and has a creepy name ... heh.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/International/video/anwar-al-awlakis-radical-message-12087685

 

I'm pretty sure he wasn't assassinated because of his name or his skin color. Jihad means war right? He said it, not us. No one has to sell anyone on the idea that this is a war. He's all over the internet declaring that all Muslims are bound to jihad with the US and encouraging them to kill Americans as their duty. That sounds like a declaration of war to me, no matter where he was born.

 

Like Voltaire said, he may have forgotten to fill out his paperwork, but somewhere along the way I'm pretty sure he renounced his citizenship. It's not like he was sitting in his living room in Milwaukee and a missile hit him. He was hiding in an al-Qaeda camp in the mountains in Yemen.

[MDC 7,737]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/video/anwar-al-awlakis-radical-message-12087685

 

I'm pretty sure he wasn't assassinated because of his name or his skin color. Jihad means war right? He said it, not us. No one has to sell anyone on the idea that this is a war. He's all over the internet declaring that all Muslims are bound to jihad with the US and encouraging them to kill Americans as their duty. That sounds like a declaration of war to me, no matter where he was born.

 

Like Voltaire said, he may have forgotten to fill out his paperwork, but somewhere along the way I'm pretty sure he renounced his citizenship. It's not like he was sitting in his living room in Milwaukee and a missile hit him. He was hiding in an al-Qaeda camp in the mountains in Yemen.

 

Do you now assassinate US citizens for saying scary things?

 

If this guy was killed in an act of war or resisting arrest, fine. But I don't understand cheering on the government sanctioned assassination of US citizens when capture and due process is an option. Especially now that we're in a war with no clear enemy, borders or end.

 

I realize I'm in a real small minority on this one. Just saying, hacks from both sides can now spare me the hot-winded speeches about the sacred constitution, since the Feds are free to do virtually anything they want with no oversight or recourse so long as it's in the name of keeping us "safe."

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Way more than I trust political hacks like you and RP. There's one less dangerous terrorist on the earth today. Thank you for protecting lives Mr President.

Bubbles approves of the govt assassinating Americans with no due process as long as it's his Messiah pulling the trigger.

 

What a lemming. Lolololol

[nikki2200 4]

RP approves of the govt wiretapping and spying on Americans with no due process as long as it's his Messiah pulling the trigger.

 

What a lemming. Lolololol

 

Fixed.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Because he was killed based upon being on a "list." You seem to trust our government not to put the wrong person on that "list" despite apparently agreeing with me that our government has made mistakes on other terrorist related lists.

Meatflaps needs to educate herself on a guy by the name of Eugene McCarthy. He had a list too.

[Saint Elistan 106]

Just for fun and maybe to hijack this thread...what if Al-Awlaki was a CIA Operative?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSIaXRWATfc

 

No body recovered. Wouldn't surprise me at all. Heck, maybe he's still alive and just needed a way out of his cover.

[nikki2200 4]

Do you now assassinate US citizens for saying scary things?

 

If this guy was killed in an act of war or resisting arrest, fine. But I don't understand cheering on the government sanctioned assassination of US citizens when capture and due process is an option. Especially now that we're in a war with no clear enemy, borders or end.

 

I realize I'm in a real small minority on this one. Just saying, hacks from both sides can now spare me the hot-winded speeches about the sacred constitution, since the Feds are free to do virtually anything they want with no oversight or recourse so long as it's in the name of keeping us "safe."

 

Were capture and due process an option without risking the lives of our soldiers? We don't know. We weren't there. I would lean towards probably not considering they used drones. They also tried to extradite this guy for years to no avail. Personally, I wouldn't want one of our soldiers to die in the process of trying to give this dirtbag a fair trial in our country that he has openly declared war on.

 

I know ideologically the idea is a little scary. But everything is not black and white as it isn't in this instance.

[kutulu 1,694]

This is how you win re-elections.

[nikki2200 4]

Meatflaps needs to educate herself on a guy by the name of Eugene McCarthy. He had a list too.

 

RP... just stop. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds. You are the main event in a three ring circus. You are embarrassing yourself and it makes me cringe.

[Saint Elistan 106]

So what about the other US Citizen killed in the attack, Samir Khan?

[MDC 7,737]

Were capture and due process an option without risking the lives of our soldiers? We don't know. We weren't there. I would lean towards probably not considering they used drones. They also tried to extradite this guy for years to no avail. Personally, I wouldn't want one of our soldiers to die in the process of trying to give this dirtbag a fair trial in our country that he has openly declared war on.

 

I know ideologically the idea is a little scary. But everything is not black and white as it isn't in this instance.

 

I'd rather err on the side of not having the Feds execute their own citizens, call me crazy. If they ever make a fatal mistake you can be sure we're never going to hear about it.

 

Good luck with Starks this week by the way, I'll be starting him with Foster and Blount.

[nikki2200 4]

I'd rather err on the side of not having the Feds execute their own citizens, call me crazy. If they ever make a fatal mistake you can be sure we're never going to hear about it.

 

Good luck with Starks this week by the way, I'll be starting him with Foster and Blount.

 

I'm hoping for a monster game and him taking over the RB1 spot in GB officially. This week to week stress is making me crazy.

[MDC 7,737]

I'm hoping for a monster game and him taking over the RB1 spot in GB officially. This week to week stress is making me crazy.

 

I have one flex so I've been going Tate/Blount with Tolbert thus far, stashing Starks in the expectation he'll eventually take over the lead role, here's hoping this is the week.

[MedStudent 56]

Meatflaps needs to educate herself on a guy by the name of Eugene McCarthy. He had a list too.

 

LMAO at recliner pilot trying to pass himself off as educated. Eugene McCarthy had a list? What kind of list did he have? a shopping list?

 

Maybe you mean Joe McCarthy, the scare mongering republican senator with the commie list. Eugene and Joe were about as politically opposite a pair could get.

 

Please don't try to educate the bored. Next thing you know you will have people thinking Franklin Roosevelt lead the roughriders up San Juan Hill.

[Strike 5,917]

So you're saying after a 2 year manhunt, years of failed attempts at extradition by both the Yemeni and US governments, and god knows how many millions of dollars on surveillance and military operations against this guy including two failed airstrikes trying to take him out, you're saying it's possible that they got the wrong guy? That's like the equivalent of accidentally bombing the wrong country because of a miscommunication. You said Serbia? I thought you said Libya. Oops.

 

 

Wait. Do you have links to all of the bolded? Per the WSJ, as of Jan. 2010,

 

he has never been indicted in the U.S.

 

Shouldn't we at least indict a U.S. citizen before we assassinate them? Or can you provide some evidence to support your assertions that I've bolded?

 

And I never said they got the "wrong guy." I'm just uncomfortable with the executive branch, using secret evidence, declaring U.S. citizens terrorists and assassinating them without any type of due process.

 

And, for the record, I have no sympathy for this guy and am glad he's dead. I'm just uncomfortable with the process used to achieve that end.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

LMAO at recliner pilot trying to pass himself off as educated. Eugene McCarthy had a list? What kind of list did he have? a shopping list?

 

Maybe you mean Joe McCarthy, the scare mongering republican senator with the commie list. Eugene and Joe were about as politically opposite a pair could get.

 

Please don't try to educate the bored. Next thing you know you will have people thinking Franklin Roosevelt lead the roughriders up San Juan Hill.

 

 

Oops! Yeo, meant Joe. But that fukker Eugene had a list too....And he checked it twice!

[Voltaire 5,429]

government assassinations of US citizens is a-okay as long as the suspect is brown and has a creepy name ... heh.

I assure you, it's not racism. I would the death of Adam Gadahn too and he's white (or at least he use to be).

[Voltaire 5,429]

So what about the other US Citizen killed in the attack, Samir Khan?

 

The kick is up, aaaaaand it's good! Extra Point.

[Voltaire 5,429]

Meatflaps needs to educate herself on a guy by the name of Eugene McCarthy. He had a list too.

:lol: :lol:

 

Tell us about Eugene McCarty's list. I never heard of it.

 

Everybody around here thinks they're as smart as Norman Einstein

[NewbieJr 541]

Wow. I thought it was impossible for RP to embarrass himself more than he already has. He keeps topping himself. Thanks for welching. You bring great entertainment value. Lolol

[MDC 7,737]

I assure you, it's not racism. I would the death of Adam Gadahn too and he's white (or at least he use to be).

 

It's stupidity and very sad.

[nikki2200 4]

Wait. Do you have links to all of the bolded? Per the WSJ, as of Jan. 2010,

 

 

 

Shouldn't we at least indict a U.S. citizen before we assassinate them? Or can you provide some evidence to support your assertions that I've bolded?

 

And I never said they got the "wrong guy." I'm just uncomfortable with the executive branch, using secret evidence, declaring U.S. citizens terrorists and assassinating them without any type of due process.

 

And, for the record, I have no sympathy for this guy and am glad he's dead. I'm just uncomfortable with the process used to achieve that end.

 

Ummm... You could read any prominent news source and they have the whole story. I don't understand what you are arguing here. Are you saying he wasn't wanted by the Yemen government for plotting the deaths of foreigners and they didn't try to get al-Qaeda to hand him over for years unsuccessfully? Or that there weren't any other air strikes trying to take him out?

 

Here's one:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15121879

 

But I'm not going to do all your googling for you. This information is not hard to find.

[Strike 5,917]

Ummm... You could read any prominent news source and they have the whole story. I don't understand what you are arguing here. Are you saying he wasn't wanted by the Yemen government for plotting the deaths of foreigners and they didn't try to get al-Qaeda to hand him over for years unsuccessfully? Or that there weren't any other air strikes trying to take him out?

 

Here's one:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15121879

 

But I'm not going to do all your googling for you. This information is not hard to find.

 

You said he was indicted by the U.S. and that we had unsuccessfully been trying to extradite him for years. I want proof of that. It isn't in the article you just cited, which is just the same crap we've been hearing for a couple of days now.

[nikki2200 4]

You said he was indicted by the U.S. and that we had unsuccessfully been trying to extradite him for years. I want proof of that. It isn't in the article you just cited, which is just the same crap we've been hearing for a couple of days now.

 

I never said he was indicted. Where did I say that? I said we've been trying to get him turned over to us for years. Maybe "extradite" was the wrong word. But the Yemen government has been trying to find him, to either charge and try him there or hand him over to us, unsuccessfully for the past two years. There is nothing disputable about that.

[Strike 5,917]

I never said he was indicted. Where did I say that? I said we've been trying to get him turned over to us for years. Maybe "extradite" was the wrong word. But the Yemen government has been trying to find him, to either charge and try him there or hand him over to us, unsuccessfully for the past two years. There is nothing disputable about that.

 

Sure there is. But yeah, see honey, you can't extradite someone unless you indict them. So when you say we had tried to extradite him you're also saying he was indicted. Now you admit that isn't true. So you acknowledge that we just assassinated a person who wasn't even wanted in the U.S.? You're a real Patriot.

 

As I said in my previous post, shouldn't we at least indict someone before we assassinate them? If Yemen wants to try him for crimes in Yemen that's their prerogative. We shouldn't be executing people without, at a minimum, charges pending against them in THIS country.

 

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Gotta love the bored libs b

 

Listening in on phone conversations between terrorist in other countries and their accomplices in the U. S. = The End Of Democracy.

 

Assassinating American citizens without granting them their Constitutional Due Process protections =. YEEE HAAAAW!

 

Why the inconsistancy? Oh yeah, one was done under Bush, one under Obama.

[MDC 7,737]

Gotta love the bored libs b

 

Listening in on phone conversations between terrorist in other countries and their accomplices in the U. S. = The End Of Democracy.

 

Assassinating American citizens without granting them their Constitutional Due Process protections =. YEEE HAAAAW!

 

Why the inconsistancy? Oh yeah, one was done under Bush, one under Obama.

 

I'd like to point out that unlike RP and other Constitution-hating libphags, I didn't approve of warrentless wiretapping of US citizens or government-sanctioned assassinations of Americans.

[GobbleDog 1,009]

I didn't approve of warrentless wiretapping of US citizens or government-sanctioned assassinations of Americans.

 

If those things were legal, I might not approve of them. I'd have to weigh the merits of each situation I spose. But when those things aren't legal, then government is breaking serious laws and that's unacceptable.

 

 

fight the power

[nikki2200 4]

Gotta love RP

 

Listening in on phone conversations between terrorist in other countries and their accomplices in the U. S. = YEEE HAAAAW!

 

Assassinating American citizens without granting them their Constitutional Due Process protections = The End Of Democracy.

 

Why the inconsistancy? Oh yeah, one was done under Bush, one under Obama.

 

Fixed.

 

You're the one that started this thread sweet cheeks. You are the massive hypocrite.

 

If you are talking about me, I never really had a problem with the Patriot Act either as long as it's not abused and the questionable parts of it are sunset like they are supposed to be. And I don't believe I said I did have a problem with it. Just like I don't really have a problem with assassinating a terrorist leader hiding in an al-Qaeda camp because he happened to be born in the US.

 

As for other bored libs, MDC and MedStudent seem to be pretty consistent and are against both of these items.

 

You are the only one who is all over the place. HTH.

[nikki2200 4]

Sure there is. But yeah, see honey, you can't extradite someone unless you indict them. So when you say we had tried to extradite him you're also saying he was indicted. Now you admit that isn't true. So you acknowledge that we just assassinated a person who wasn't even wanted in the U.S.? You're a real Patriot.

 

As I said in my previous post, shouldn't we at least indict someone before we assassinate them? If Yemen wants to try him for crimes in Yemen that's their prerogative. We shouldn't be executing people without, at a minimum, charges pending against them in THIS country.

 

 

If not giving a fock if we assassinate known terrorists hiding in caves in Yemen without going through the entire bureaucratic process of warrants, indictments, extradition, and trial under the same system that set OJ and Casey Anthony free, all the while publicly exposing classified information with regards to our methods of gathering intel on our anti-terrorism endeavors, means I'm not a patriot.... well then I guess I'm not.

[Saint Elistan 106]

If not giving a fock if we assassinate known terrorists hiding in caves in Yemen without going through the entire bureaucratic process of warrants, indictments, extradition, and trial under the same system that set OJ and Casey Anthony free, all the while publicly exposing classified information with regards to our methods of gathering intel on our anti-terrorism endeavors, means I'm not a patriot.... well then I guess I'm not.

 

I'm sorry, darling, but we're a NATION OF LAWS. They have a word for the person who is the Judge, Jury, and Executioner...it's Dictator. We toss aside our Laws and we're no different than them.

 

I'm glad you cite Casey Anthony as it's a textbook example of why we don't let public opinion determine the fate of the accused.

 

And to be fair, he wasn't hiding in caves. He was having a picnic on the side of the road.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

 

 

As for other bored libs, MDC and MedStudent seem to be pretty consistent and are against both of these items.

 

Haven't you heard, MDC is no lib, he claims to be a moderate Republican. So using him as an example of a bored lib makes no sense, much like the rest of the drivel you post.

 

Unless you are claiming he is a lying sack when he says he is a Republican. If that's the case, using the word of a lying sack to make your point is weak.

[nikki2200 4]

Haven't you heard, MDC is no lib, he claims to be a moderate Republican. So using him as an example of a bored lib makes no sense, much like the rest of the drivel you post.

 

Unless you are claiming he is a lying sack when he says he is a Republican. If that's the case, using the word of a lying sack to make your point is weak.

 

So who were you referring to when you said bored libs?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

So who were you referring to when you said bored libs?

Let's start with:

 

Voltaire

Arniebragg

Newbie

Hoyt

Shovelheadt

Drizzay.

 

I got bored at post #17. I figure 6 out of the first 17 posts should be good enough even for you. I see no need to go thru all120 posts.

 

Now, if any of them want to go on record and show where they supported the Patriot Act I will gladly stand corrected.