Prominent global warming skeptic releases new study

[nikki2200 4]

Strike is the king of "If you say or think X, then you must believe Y. Defend your belief of Y or I will call you an idiot."

 

The dumbass once asked me for a link to my opinion!

 

In other words, he's a tool.

 

I made a long post a few weeks ago explaining how the merchandising process in the retail industry works, based on my experience working with retail companies, and he told me I was making stuff up because I didn't provide a google link to the CEO of Toys 'R Us corroborating what I said.

[MedStudent 56]

It's funny to see so many athiests having so much faith in such an unproven theory.

 

unproven theory? is there any other kind?

[nikki2200 4]

Your understanding of science, word choice and place of residence are all terrible. Care to provide some data to support any of your drivel?

 

 

Watch it there buddy.

[Frank M 181]

Trapped in Piaget's concrete operational stage, unable to think abstractly or understand everything isn't black and white. The Geek Club is a refuge for people like this.

 

So, he's not a tool?

 

[Strike 5,748]

I just looked up his testimony. Unless I'm looking at the wrong thing you've got it wrong. The study that he recently released, which his congressional testimony was based on, was partially financed by the Koch brothers. I haven't found anything that says he has a long lasting relationship with the petroleum industry. So he went in front of congress and, despite his study being partially financed by the Koch brothers, told congress global warming was real. How is that recanting, or is there another episode I'm not aware of? I doubt it. I think you're just misinformed as usual.

 

Here's what I found:

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/04/local/la-me-climate-berkeley-20110404

 

Bump. Voltaire, do you still cling to the belief that Dr. Muller "recanted" his testimony and/or that he has been bought off by the petroleum industry for years?

[Strike 5,748]

I made a long post a few weeks ago explaining how the merchandising process in the retail industry works, based on my experience working with retail companies, and he told me I was making stuff up because I didn't provide a google link to the CEO of Toys 'R Us corroborating what I said.

 

This is a load of crap. Post a link to the discussion. I don't even remember what the fock you're talking about but I'll bet you $20 it's not even remotely how you're describing it here.

[phillybear 366]

Your understanding of science, word choice and place of residence are all terrible. Care to provide some data to support any of your drivel?

 

For starters:

1. There are a few other substances which expand when frozen.

2. Who is advocating more rapid ice formation, and how would more ice cause the oceans to rise? Better drink your icewater quickly so it doesn't overflow

3. The amount of grease and sh!t in NJ will surely float, no matter the sea level.

 

If this was an attempt at comedy, bravo!

 

1. OK. Fair enough. Maybe I was thinking only liquids. Meh. Whatever. I will never admit I was wrong, and this is no exception.

 

2. Some scientists are saying the water is freezing and replacing the ice in the Artics at a faster rate than it's melting. Hey, scientists don't see eye to eye. Ask any 14 economists about the economy, and you get 14 different answers. If you ask 14 female employees of the Jets if Brett Farve tweeted pictures of his tiny squid to them, you will get 14 similar answers. It's just the way it is. I was talking about ice specifically, and their molecules, not ice water, which expands at a smaller rate.

 

3. I can't wait to see images of the EPA grabbing some soap and towels the size of a circus tent to towel off Snooki's blowhole and gunt.

[Herbivore 1,147]

Water is whacky. Water expands as it freezes, which I think is the only known substance to do that, if my memories of physics and chemistry classes remain true. So, if the ice in the Artics is freezing at a more rapid rate, and some scientists say it is, then more ice will cause the oceans to rise. So, either way, when New Jersey goes under water, I'll have ocean front property.

 

You are a colossal moron

[MTSkiBum 1,625]

Water is whacky. Water expands as it freezes, which I think is the only known substance to do that, if my memories of physics and chemistry classes remain true. So, if the ice in the Artics is freezing at a more rapid rate, and some scientists say it is, then more ice will cause the oceans to rise. So, either way, when New Jersey goes under water, I'll have ocean front property.

 

The effect that causes water to expand during freezing is called hydrogen bonding, and there are mutliple compounds that are capable of hydrogen bonding, but water is the most common.

 

 

To your second point even though ice expands, it actually displaces less water when frozen. One way that you could test this out would be to measure 10 ml of water out and freeze it, then drop it into 100 ml of water. What you would notice is that initially the water level would not reach the 110 ml mark. However as the ice cube melts the water level will eventually rise to the full 110 ml.

 

If the north and south pole were to expand greatly due to another ice-age there would be a sharp drop in sea levels.

[Strike 5,748]

Calling other people an idiot, does not make you smart. Voltaire is one of the smartest posters here. That's all I am going to say, but you are quickly becoming one of my least favorite posters.

 

I don't care whether I'm your favorite poster or not. I call people out when they make sh*t up. I've done it with you and I've done it with Voltaire. You both have a tendency to just post sh*t that you believe that happens not to be true. That isn't to say you never post anything true or never make a decent point, but at other times you just throw some crap out there and expect people to believe it. And when I see bullsh*t I ask people to support their assertions. It's pretty simple. I'm waiting for Voltaire to prove his assertion that Dr. Muller did some type of recanting in front of congress and that he was bought off by the petroleum industry as Voltaire asserted in this thread. Unlike both of you I provide links to support my assertions. Sorry you get your panties in a bunch when someone doesn't just believe crap you spew. If you can support your arguments we'll get along fine. If not we'll have a problem. There's a reason I don't tend to get in to disagreements with people like Parrot, JK, even Naomi. They tend to post stuff that passes the smell test and, when asked to support it, can. You don't. That's on you. Not me.

[phillybear 366]

You are a colossal moron

 

Your retarted.

[Frank M 181]

Your retarted.

 

Irony.

[Voltaire 5,363]

You are a colossal moron

 

Three Parts Genius, one part Moron. phillybear is the best wordsmith in this forum by a mile. He's also the most ... er... eccentric.

[nikki2200 4]

How does this:

 

Muller is the very same climate denier financed by the petroleum industry that I mentioned earlier who recanted during testimony before Congress this year.

 

Equal this?

 

Bump. Voltaire, do you still cling to the belief that Dr. Muller "recanted" his testimony and/or that he has been bought off by the petroleum industry for years?

 

Muller's climate change study done at Berkley was funded partially by the petroleum industry. That is a fact. Where did Voltaire claim that Muller was "bought off" by them "for years"? You seem to like to add words to what people say in your head so you can then jump to conclusions about what they meant and then call them an idiot.

[Frank M 181]

You seem to like to add words to what people say in your head so you can then jump to conclusions about what they meant and then call them an idiot.

 

You can bottle this and call it "Essence of Strike".

[nikki2200 4]

I don't care whether I'm your favorite poster or not. I call people out when they make sh*t up. I've done it with you and I've done it with Voltaire. You both have a tendency to just post sh*t that you believe that happens not to be true. That isn't to say you never post anything true or never make a decent point, but at other times you just throw some crap out there and expect people to believe it. And when I see bullsh*t I ask people to support their assertions. It's pretty simple. I'm waiting for Voltaire to prove his assertion that Dr. Muller did some type of recanting in front of congress and that he was bought off by the petroleum industry as Voltaire asserted in this thread. Unlike both of you I provide links to support my assertions. Sorry you get your panties in a bunch when someone doesn't just believe crap you spew. If you can support your arguments we'll get along fine. If not we'll have a problem. There's a reason I don't tend to get in to disagreements with people like Parrot, JK, even Naomi. They tend to post stuff that passes the smell test and, when asked to support it, can. You don't. That's on you. Not me.

 

Half the time you are responding to something I didn't even post so I don't know what you want a link to.

 

But if you want the for being the bestest googler on the bored and that's where you get all of your info from, not from any kind of actual knowledge, then you got it. Congrats.

[Strike 5,748]

How does this:

 

 

 

Equal this?

 

 

 

Muller's climate change study done at Berkley was funded partially by the petroleum industry. That is a fact. Where did Voltaire claim that Muller was "bought off" by them "for years"? You seem to like to add words to what people say in your head so you can then jump to conclusions about what they meant and then call them an idiot.

 

He can respond. He says the petroleum industry financed the guy. This suggests an ongoing relationship. All they did was help finance this one study, and they weren't the only ones. Not to mention that the petroleum industry didn't finance his study, it was a couple of guys who have some businesses in oil. He says the guy "recanted" in front of congress. I'm waiting for him to show he recanted. IOW, basically everything he said is a bunch of B.S. designed to discredit the guy. If anything, he has MORE credibility since the Koch brothers were probably hoping the study would turn out differently than it did. The fact that Muller went in front of congress and said the opposite of what those guys probably wanted increases his credibility as opposed to decreasing it as Voltaire has tried to suggest.

[Herbivore 1,147]

Your retarted.

 

Two words typed, two errors...wordsmith might be an overstatement.

[Strike 5,748]

Half the time you are responding to something I didn't even post so I don't know what you want a link to.

 

 

B.S. I ask for specific links. Usually I quote you and post "link?". You just CAN'T support your assertions.

[nikki2200 4]

He can respond. He says the petroleum industry financed the guy. This suggests an ongoing relationship. All they did was help finance this one study, and they weren't the only ones. Not to mention that the petroleum industry didn't finance his study, it was a couple of guys who have some businesses in oil. He says the guy "recanted" in front of congress. I'm waiting for him to show he recanted. IOW, basically everything he said is a bunch of B.S. designed to discredit the guy. If anything, he has MORE credibility since the Koch brothers were probably hoping the study would turn out differently than it did. The fact that Muller went in front of congress and said the opposite of what those guys probably wanted increases his credibility as opposed to decreasing it as Voltaire has tried to suggest.

 

OMG. That's rich.

[Strike 5,748]

I made a long post a few weeks ago explaining how the merchandising process in the retail industry works, based on my experience working with retail companies, and he told me I was making stuff up because I didn't provide a google link to the CEO of Toys 'R Us corroborating what I said.

 

This is a load of crap. Post a link to the discussion. I don't even remember what the fock you're talking about but I'll bet you $20 it's not even remotely how you're describing it here.

 

 

Bump.....waiting for link.......

[nikki2200 4]

Bump.....waiting for link.......

 

And I already explained to you how the merchandising process works. Toys R Us does not actually test the items it sells, but it demands that the manufacturers certify that it meets federal regulations and their own standards that they probably have in addition to federal regulations. And if the manufacturer says it's A-OK, as is required by their contract, I don't know how Toys R Us would know any differently. Every single retailer does not have their own personal testing facilities. And I doubt they have the ability to check on every single manufacturer and every single item they sell to make sure they aren't lying.

 

And thinking about this more, in the toy industry, I'm sure they have a product safety department that decides if products are safe to sell. But they are most likely going off a check sheet and basing it on the manufacturer guaranteeing they did what they were supposed to do.

 

I haven't read anything where Toys R Us has anything from the manufacturer certifying that it was tested in accordance with our federal pool slide guidelines. It sounds like you're making stuff up again. Can you provide a link where someone from Toys R Us even makes a statement to the media saying that?

 

 

Me "making stuff up" is understanding how businesses operate. Retailers get a guarantee from the manufacturer that the product is safe according to federal safety regulations. That was my entire point. That they don't have entire departments staffed with lawyers with expertise in every intricate detail of the law, nor do they have the means to enforce it. That is up to the manufacturer. Which manufacturers do have to research the regulations before they bring a product to market. And in court, Toys R Us testified that the product was not tested for the 350 pound regulation. Because it wasn't. That doesn't mean that was something they would typically know about or have the ability to enforce.

 

Apparently Walmart didn't know either. Or God knows how many other retailers that sold this thing.

 

 

You could have simply said you were making stuff up again.

 

 

There ya have it. And I'm not getting into this discussion again with you. Or any discussion for that matter. Stop trying to side-step this because you look like a complete fool in this thread for not understanding what past tense is.

[Little Rusty 18]

"Global Warming" was created as a master plan for Libs / Commies ( NWO ) to pretty much control ALL we do. The term "Global Warming" was changed to "Climate Change" because "Global Warming" was proved to be complete bullshix.

 

HTH ( lightbulb )

[phillybear 366]

Irony.

 

I misspelled two words, you dolt.

[Voltaire 5,363]

Regarding Muller, I know Strike's been after me to form an opinion and I'm trying to organize my thoughts on the subject. I hadnt intended to expend so much mental energy to this because well, never mind...

 

The Koch brothers ARE the political arm of petroleum industry. They've got a huge financial incentive to keep any action on global warming from occurring and they've bought off enough useful idiot politicians to put them in a pretty spot. I think they learned from the tobacco industry that you never ever call off the dogs, you keep attacking obstructing and putting up roadblocks always and forever.

 

That said, in fairness, you don't necessarily discredit what they have to say just because they say it. The research they funded wasn't fraudulent, it was actually legitimate and will likely pass muster when it's submitted for peer review which the process should be starting now or if not, it will be soon since the data is now availible.

 

I've got to hand it to the guy, Muller, seems pretty standup. Says what he thinks without pulling punches. Very independent, not beholden to massive popular consensus opinion, not beholden to his paymasters, willing to publicly amend his own previous beliefs and prejudices when evidence is presented that contradicts it. I can respect that.

 

Now Muller was a heavyweight in the skeptics camp. He was disputing evidence, slandering other scientists. He was knee deep in heaping criticism and scorn of the leaked emails from England's climate research team. So he was a natural choice for the Koch brothers to do research into global warming since they thought they had an ally on their side.

 

When the global warming skeptics needed a scientific expert to testify before Congress, Muller was their top gun. But it didn't work out the way things were planned, because Muller is not a team player. He's a wild card and marches to his own drum. Muller admitted that his research was backing up and reinforcing the claims made by (everybody else) and that problems that he saw in their data (non-ideal locations of measuring devices among other things) were insignificant.

 

It's always funny when the head-up-their-ass skeptic 'tards get embarassed in a political theater of their own making. Unfortunately, they've bought off the US government, so the joke is on the human race.

[phillybear 366]

Two words typed, two errors...wordsmith might be an overstatement.

 

Seriously? You are taking that post to be serious, and not mocking in any way? Hey, I am infallible. I never make mistakes. They say that pobody's nerfect, but I submit that I am.

 

Jumping Jehosophat and Pogo Palomino. I must be an outstanding hypnotist. Is there anything under the sun that I can't do better than the other 8 billion humans on this planet? I am the most awesomest poster evah.

 

No more subtlety. I demand to be worshiped and adulated. At the same time.

[Frank M 181]

I misspelled two words, you dolt.

 

You misspelled the only two words you used, one of them being retarded. The irony is that you can't spell retarded because, apparently, you yourself are retarded.

 

You couldn't even spell one of them right? Out of two?

 

[phillybear 366]

You misspelled the only two words you used, one of them being retarded. The irony is that you can't spell retarded because, apparently, you yourself are retarded.

 

You couldn't even spell one of them right? Out of two?

 

 

You are so stupit.

[Herbivore 1,147]

Seriously? You are taking that post to be serious, and not mocking in any way? Hey, I am infallible. I never make mistakes. They say that pobody's nerfect, but I submit that I am.

 

Jumping Jehosophat and Pogo Palomino. I must be an outstanding hypnotist. Is there anything under the sun that I can't do better than the other 8 billion humans on this planet? I am the most awesomest poster evah.

 

No more subtlety. I demand to be worshiped and adulated. At the same time.

 

Your write..my bad.

[nikki2200 4]

Regarding Muller, I know Strike's been after me to form an opinion and I'm trying to organize my thoughts on the subject. I hadnt intended to expend so much mental energy to this because well, never mind...

 

The Koch brothers ARE the political arm of petroleum industry. They've got a huge financial incentive to keep any action on global warming from occurring and they've bought off enough useful idiot politicians to put them in a pretty spot. I think they learned from the tobacco industry that you never ever call off the dogs, you keep attacking obstructing and putting up roadblocks always and forever.

 

That said, in fairness, you don't necessarily discredit what they have to say just because they say it. The research they funded wasn't fraudulent, it was actually legitimate and will likely pass muster when it's submitted for peer review which the process should be starting now or if not, it will be soon since the data is now availible.

 

I've got to hand it to the guy, Muller, seems pretty standup. Says what he thinks without pulling punches. Very independent, not beholden to massive popular consensus opinion, not beholden to his paymasters, willing to publicly amend his own previous beliefs and prejudices when evidence is presented that contradicts it. I can respect that.

 

Now Muller was a heavyweight in the skeptics camp. He was disputing evidence, slandering other scientists. He was knee deep in heaping criticism and scorn of the leaked emails from England's climate research team. So he was a natural choice for the Koch brothers to do research into global warming since they thought they had an ally on their side.

 

When the global warming skeptics needed a scientific expert to testify before Congress, Muller was their top gun. But it didn't work out the way things were planned, because Muller is not a team player. He's a wild card and marches to his own drum. Muller admitted that his research was backing up and reinforcing the claims made by (everybody else) and that problems that he saw in their data (non-ideal locations of measuring devices among other things) were insignificant.

 

It's always funny when the head-up-their-ass skeptic 'tards get embarassed in a political theater of their own making. Unfortunately, they've bought off the US government, so the joke is on the human race.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BQpciw8suk

[phillybear 366]

Your write..my bad.

 

I knew I shouldn't have broken character. It was more fun when you were calling me a moron. Let's go back to that again.

[Strike 5,748]

There ya have it. And I'm not getting into this discussion again with you. Or any discussion for that matter. Stop trying to side-step this because you look like a complete fool in this thread for not understanding what past tense is.

 

Apparently the word "link" is another word you don't understand.

 

[Strike 5,748]

Regarding Muller, I know Strike's been after me to form an opinion and I'm trying to organize my thoughts on the subject. I hadnt intended to expend so much mental energy to this because well, never mind...

 

The Koch brothers ARE the political arm of petroleum industry. They've got a huge financial incentive to keep any action on global warming from occurring and they've bought off enough useful idiot politicians to put them in a pretty spot. I think they learned from the tobacco industry that you never ever call off the dogs, you keep attacking obstructing and putting up roadblocks always and forever.

 

That said, in fairness, you don't necessarily discredit what they have to say just because they say it. The research they funded wasn't fraudulent, it was actually legitimate and will likely pass muster when it's submitted for peer review which the process should be starting now or if not, it will be soon since the data is now availible.

 

I've got to hand it to the guy, Muller, seems pretty standup. Says what he thinks without pulling punches. Very independent, not beholden to massive popular consensus opinion, not beholden to his paymasters, willing to publicly amend his own previous beliefs and prejudices when evidence is presented that contradicts it. I can respect that.

 

Now Muller was a heavyweight in the skeptics camp. He was disputing evidence, slandering other scientists. He was knee deep in heaping criticism and scorn of the leaked emails from England's climate research team. So he was a natural choice for the Koch brothers to do research into global warming since they thought they had an ally on their side.

 

When the global warming skeptics needed a scientific expert to testify before Congress, Muller was their top gun. But it didn't work out the way things were planned, because Muller is not a team player. He's a wild card and marches to his own drum. Muller admitted that his research was backing up and reinforcing the claims made by (everybody else) and that problems that he saw in their data (non-ideal locations of measuring devices among other things) were insignificant.

 

It's always funny when the head-up-their-ass skeptic 'tards get embarassed in a political theater of their own making. Unfortunately, they've bought off the US government, so the joke is on the human race.

 

WTF are you talking about? Muller is simply someone after the truth. He wasn't embarrassed by anything and I'm still waiting for you to explain how he "recanted." See the thing is, those that have some skepticism have it because the science thus far is FLAWED. What Muller did was apply GOOD science to the data. It appears that much of the same conclusions were reached. We'll know for sure if his study passes peer review. But that's been the problem all along. Faulty science. And we still don't have a lot of good science showing how much of climate change is due to humans. And that's the real question, isn't it?

[nikki2200 4]

WTF are you talking about?

 

That pretty much sums it up.

[nikki2200 4]

Apparently the word "link" is another word you don't understand.

 

 

It amazes me you can actually function in life. I'm questioning the personal things you post here because I find it hard to believe that you can manage to feed yourself and bathe without assistance, let alone hold a job.

[Strike 5,748]

It amazes me you can actually function in life. I'm questioning the personal things you post here because I find it hard to believe that you can manage to feed yourself and bathe without assistance, let alone hold a job.

 

WAT? I'm still waiting for you to link to something showing you paid more in taxes than I gross. Oh right, it's cause as usual you were full of sh*t.

 

:banana:

[DankNuggs 305]

Clearly the problem gets back to impartiality. The political alignment of the entity doing the scientific funding has an agenda. The question is how/if that agenda infiltrates the science.

[penultimatestraw 473]

The effect that causes water to expand during freezing is called hydrogen bonding, and there are mutliple compounds that are capable of hydrogen bonding, but water is the most common.

 

 

To your second point even though ice expands, it actually displaces less water when frozen. One way that you could test this out would be to measure 10 ml of water out and freeze it, then drop it into 100 ml of water. What you would notice is that initially the water level would not reach the 110 ml mark. However as the ice cube melts the water level will eventually rise to the full 110 ml.

 

If the north and south pole were to expand greatly due to another ice-age there would be a sharp drop in sea levels.

Only if the ice formed on land would the sea levels drop much, as solid ice displaces a volume of water equal to (not > or <) its liquid volume. This is why ice water in a glass will not overflow as the ice melts; the water level stays the same . As salt water is a bit more dense than fresh water, an iceberg in the ocean will not displace quite as much volume were it in a lake, of course. But the bulk of the added ocean water would be expected to come from snow/ice melt on the ground, which wouldn't be displacing any ocean water while frozen. The converse is also true.

 

Also there aren't too many substances which are less dense as solids than liquids. Hydrogen bonding is key, but the ability to form crystals is something not all hydrogen-bonding elements/compounds share.

 

Hey, scientists don't see eye to eye. Ask any 14 economists about the economy, and you get 14 different answers. If you ask 14 female employees of the Jets if Brett Farve tweeted pictures of his tiny squid to them, you will get 14 similar answers. It's just the way it is. I was talking about ice specifically, and their molecules, not ice water, which expands at a smaller rate.

Climate change, and man's impact on it are believed by the vast majority who study it. This doesn't mean it is absolutely irrefutable, but a lot of people far more educated than us support the science.

[IGotWorms 4,060]

For the record, this is the SAME scientist who's editorial is being touted in the OP in this thread.

 

 

You completely missed the point of my posting that story. I'm not "touting" Muller at all. The guy is a complete focking idiot. He spent years saying that global warming was fake and that scientists weren't being critical enough. Then he did his own study and FOUND OUT THAT GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL.

 

Now he's trying to say that he wasn't really wrong because scientists still should have been more critical of global warming, even though they happened to be right in accepting the theory.

[IGotWorms 4,060]

You are a colossal moron

 

Strike is a moron. phillybear's just trolling, as per usual.