Touchdown Timmah

[nobody 2,098]

I have no idea if Tebow will become a long term success in the NFL.

 

Let me help you out. He won't be.

[swirvenirvin 25]

[Sho Nuff 720]

Last night was perfect for sports talk radio and message boards.

 

The Tebow nuthuggers will be all over this..."see, he just wins". Blind to the FACT that for 55 minutes he sucked ass. Blind to how for whatever reason, the Jets changed how they played defense in the last 5 minutes of the game. Blind to how that type of offense is simply not sustainable. I give Tebow credit for taking advantage of it for sure...but all we will hear about is Tebow and there should be more said about the Bronco defense.

 

The haters (I will be called one)...will rightfully bring up that for 55 minutes of the game Tebow and the offense had produced all of 134 yards or so. And other things mentioned above. And the nuthuggers will ignore all of it or make excuses because the guy won.

 

Reminds me so much of Vince Young (and I was on Vince's side for much of it...as bad of a passer as Young was...he is miles ahead of Tebow with his arm.

[Kent 228]

With Vick out I was forced to go with Tebow last night.

 

He has the worst throwing motion in the history of NFL QBs. He can't get the ball out. Its gotta screw up the receivers who are waiting for him to actually release the ball. The timing and chemistry has got to be awful.

 

What happened to his work on a quick release. It looks like he's regressed to where it takes even longer than ever.

 

Its painful to watch him throw. He winds up like a baseball pitcher. You can't sustain that in the NFL. He can't have long term success with that throwing motion. He's got to fix it in the off season.

[p00h 85]

With Vick out I was forced to go with Tebow last night.

 

He has the worst throwing motion in the history of NFL QBs. He can't get the ball out. Its gotta screw up the receivers who are waiting for him to actually release the ball. The timing and chemistry has got to be awful.

 

What happened to his work on a quick release. It looks like he's regressed to where it takes even longer than ever.

 

Its painful to watch him throw. He winds up like a baseball pitcher. You can't sustain that in the NFL. He can't have long term success with that throwing motion. He's got to fix it in the off season.

 

 

his release is so bad, that people seem to lose track of the fact that he's got no timing on the throws either. He literally has to wait for a wr to be open before he throws it, and then with his long motion, it makes it even tougher to get a completion. Dude is a walking disaster as it relates to passing, just absolutely terrible...

 

and as far as long term success with that throwing motion, here's whats going to happen sometime very soon with that throwing motion. While he's in the middle of that long wind up motion, he's gonna get cracked by a LB and get seriously hurt. The longer you leave yourself exposed with your throwing motion, the more dangerous it is in this league. This isn't florida where your OLine is going to give you a perfect pocket and 10 seconds to throw. One of these LBs is gonna crack him good while in the motiona dn break him in 2...

[blagrange 2]

It must drive the detractors crazy that Tebow keeps winning. So much that they have to come and defend their position preemptively because they so surely speak their opinion as fact. At first it was "he cant win in the NFL", "HE cant read defenses" ( did you hear the post game interview on the NFL network last night? ),and now the only thing left to cling to is his throwing motion.

 

The bottom line, Tebow is 4-1 this year whether it be ugly or not. He does need to improve in his passing game we all know that. And yes, people are going to say he is a winner, 4-1 this year and 5-3 in his 8 NFL starts = Winner! You see , some people watch every game and just don't comment based on highlights and box scores. The guy makes plays like he did in the last 5 minutes, every week. Whether it be a long TD strike to Decker to ice the game or come from behind victories. But the wanna be analyst on this board will surely continue to find something to ###### about though they have "no skin in the game". The funny thing is, the only thing the two-three supporters on this board have ever said is "let him play", while the detractors on this board said "orton gives the broncos the best chance to win"blah.. blah blah... The supporters have been able to hold true to their position, have the haters?

[kmbryant09 1]

Last night was perfect for sports talk radio and message boards.

 

The Tebow nuthuggers will be all over this..."see, he just wins". Blind to the FACT that for 55 minutes he sucked ass. Blind to how for whatever reason, the Jets changed how they played defense in the last 5 minutes of the game. Blind to how that type of offense is simply not sustainable. I give Tebow credit for taking advantage of it for sure...but all we will hear about is Tebow and there should be more said about the Bronco defense.

 

The haters (I will be called one)...will rightfully bring up that for 55 minutes of the game Tebow and the offense had produced all of 134 yards or so. And other things mentioned above. And the nuthuggers will ignore all of it or make excuses because the guy won.

 

Reminds me so much of Vince Young (and I was on Vince's side for much of it...as bad of a passer as Young was...he is miles ahead of Tebow with his arm.

It's funny how haters think they get to decide what stats they get to discredit, and which ones they take to the bank.

 

I'm not a Tebow supporter, but do enjoy watching him win simply because it pisses off arm-chair scouts on the interwebz who think they've figured out the NFL.

 

Was Tebow good for 55 minutes? No, his stat line was terrible. But he finished 9/20, accounted for 172 out of the team's 225 yards, and led a 5:00 drive against a legit, NFL defense to win a game to keep any playoff hopes alive. He definitely missed some throws, more throws that a traditional NFL QB should make. If Brady/Manning/Brees made those throws, they wouldn't be a starting QB in the NFL. But Tebow makes up for it in other areas. Why do you think the Broncos had success on quick, WR screens and some nifty reverses? Because the Jets concentrated 9 defenders on stopping Tebow/McGahee. Tebow also had 2 TERRIBLE drops from his WR's (I believe Decker dropped both of them), and hit his WR's hands on 2 other 3rd down throws - albeit tough catches that don't really count as drops.

 

Tebow doesn't turn the ball over like many young, inexperienced QB's. He's also 4-1 as a starter this year, and I believe 5-3 for his career - with the same team that was like 4-14 with Kyle Orten as the QB. And frankly, if he (and the defense) can keep the Broncos in the game until the 4th quarter, who cares how badly he plays for 55 minutes? He came into the game with the 4th highest QB rating in the 4th quarter, and put together another miracle comeback.

 

He definitely needs to develop his throwing mechanics over the next year or two if he wants to become a great, long-term QB, but how can people still hate on a guy that has literally done everything right??

[Sho Nuff 720]

It must drive the detractors crazy that Tebow keeps winning. So much that they have to come and defend their position preemptively because they so surely speak their opinion as fact. At first it was "he cant win in the NFL", "HE cant read defenses" ( did you hear the post game interview on the NFL network last night? ),and now the only thing left to cling to is his throwing motion.

 

The bottom line, Tebow is 4-1 this year whether it be ugly or not. He does need to improve in his passing game we all know that. And yes, people are going to say he is a winner, 4-1 this year and 5-3 in his 8 NFL starts = Winner! You see , some people watch every game and just don't comment based on highlights and box scores. The guy makes plays like he did in the last 5 minutes, every week. Whether it be a long TD strike to Decker to ice the game or come from behind victories. But the wanna be analyst on this board will surely continue to find something to ###### about though they have "no skin in the game". The funny thing is, the only thing the two-three supporters on this board have ever said is "let him play", while the detractors on this board said "orton gives the broncos the best chance to win"blah.. blah blah... The supporters have been able to hold true to their position, have the haters?

 

So again...do you feel that offense will be sustainable over a long period of time for the Broncos?

Its funny how you continue to be blind to so many facts out there.

[We Tigers 71]

I don't think that offense will be sustainable, but it doesn't need to be. The point is that the Denver gameplan has played to his strengths and limited the exposures of his weaknesses. We'll see in the offseason if Tebow can improve his mechanics. A lot of the "it'll never work" arguments seem to assume he'll never improve. He might not, sure, but it's pretty much a given that he and the team will try.

[stonewall 647]

Many are missing the boat. This guy believes (through his faith in God) that he can and will succeed. He believes he can and will win. He also is a natural born athlete.....not a throwing QB mind you, but a superb athlete. This combination can not be overstated.

 

One must also never underestimate the power of a prayerful person.....who truly believes that with God all things are indeed possible. Not lip-service or a Sunday morning Christian.....but a God-led individual who is all in 100%, and lives his faith. Only the sky is the limit. Those who have never experienced it or known someone like this will not relate or understand. It is a very powerful and unpredictable thing.

 

Tebow may fail as an NFL QB. Not all prayers are answered the way we feel/hope thy should be. He will have his stinkers. No matter how bad he wants it, God may have other ideas and this may not be his ultimate purpose. Trial and tribulation are part of the price of following the Lord. This is how strength is refined and eventually attained. However, Tebow is a rare breed (in pro sports anyway) of a truly selfless, God-fearing man........and because of this, on any given Sunday, anything is possible. Discount him at your own peril.

 

Let the NFL gurus, experts, and prognosticators who just don't get it continue to make fools of themselves by predicting his demise. Let them rise up and say "Told You So!" when he is unable to complete that last drive during Tebow-time. It is all very sophmoric yet entertaining.....they just don't comprehend the fact that The Force is now with him.

[beemo 0]

It's funny how haters think they get to decide what stats they get to discredit, and which ones they take to the bank.

 

Yep, and we're seeing that here now as people are hellbent on hating the guy and dismissing his every success while trumpeting his weaknesses to justify their bias.

 

It's interesting to note that Tebow's average yards per completion and completion percentage has gone down this season. Has he regressed? No, I don't think so. I think his poor passing -- and, yes, he's got his own mechanics issues there no matter what -- can be partly blamed on having less talent around him than last year and having plays called by a coach who does not believe in his ability. He's shown that he can pass well but lacks consistency and an ability to read and get the ball out quickly. It'll have to be something he'll need to improve if he wants to stay, sure, but for a guy starting on a crappy team having played with 2nd stringers and following a coaching change, he's actually doing okay.

 

Never seen a guy get so much flack for winning. How long have Grossman, Orton, Sanchez, and other crummy QBs been in the league? Why is Tebow not afforded the same chance to remain and improve as a rookie, especially given his record? The criticism is warranted, but the blind hatred he receives is just asinine.

[Sho Nuff 720]

I don't think that offense will be sustainable, but it doesn't need to be. The point is that the Denver gameplan has played to his strengths and limited the exposures of his weaknesses. We'll see in the offseason if Tebow can improve his mechanics. A lot of the "it'll never work" arguments seem to assume he'll never improve. He might not, sure, but it's pretty much a given that he and the team will try.

 

I don't think its a given that the team will try.

I don't think the team wants to try and right now they are "happy" to be winning, but know this is setting them up for a no-win situation unless he really improves big time.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Yep, and we're seeing that here now as people are hellbent on hating the guy and dismissing his every success while trumpeting his weaknesses to justify their bias.

 

It's interesting to note that Tebow's average yards per completion and completion percentage has gone down this season. Has he regressed? No, I don't think so. I think his poor passing -- and, yes, he's got his own mechanics issues there no matter what -- can be partly blamed on having less talent around him than last year and having plays called by a coach who does not believe in his ability. He's shown that he can pass well but lacks consistency and an ability to read and get the ball out quickly. It'll have to be something he'll need to improve if he wants to stay, sure, but for a guy starting on a crappy team having played with 2nd stringers and following a coaching change, he's actually doing okay.

 

Never seen a guy get so much flack for winning. How long have Grossman, Orton, Sanchez, and other crummy QBs been in the league? Why is Tebow not afforded the same chance to remain and improve as a rookie, especially given his record? The criticism is warranted, but the blind hatred he receives is just asinine.

 

When did Grossman, Orton, or Sanchez get this type of hype and knob schlobbing?

They got buried when they sucked...like Tebow should if he is sucking like them.

 

And none of it is "blind" hatred.

[kmbryant09 1]

When did Grossman, Orton, or Sanchez get this type of hype and knob schlobbing?

They got buried when they sucked...like Tebow should if he is sucking like them.

 

And none of it is "blind" hatred.

Why would you hate a person simply because the media loves to cover him? It'd be one thing if Tebow brought this on himself (Brett Favre, anyone?), but Tebow's been a stand-up guy about everything since he's been in the spotlight. Hate the media, don't hate the person.

 

And I don't know what hype and "knob schlobbing" you're referring to regarding Tebow. College? Yeah - but he pretty much lived up to, and surpassed, and ridiculous expectations that were set for him. Once he graduated, everybody has said he'd suck. He received 3rd-7th round draft grades. Scouts, Media Outlets, even team's were suggesting that he play a different position in the NFL.

 

And what does he do? Takes over a Broncos team that was 4-14 with Kyle Orten as the starting QB, and wins 5 of his 8 starts (4 out of 5 this year). Is it pretty? Nope. Does he play well for 60 minutes? Nope. But the dude is clutch. He delivers when it matters. And he wins. Yet you hate him?

[Sho Nuff 720]

Why would you hate a person simply because the media loves to cover him? It'd be one thing if Tebow brought this on himself (Brett Favre, anyone?), but Tebow's been a stand-up guy about everything since he's been in the spotlight. Hate the media, don't hate the person.

 

And I don't know what hype and "knob schlobbing" you're referring to regarding Tebow. College? Yeah - but he pretty much lived up to, and surpassed, and ridiculous expectations that were set for him. Once he graduated, everybody has said he'd suck. He received 3rd-7th round draft grades. Scouts, Media Outlets, even team's were suggesting that he play a different position in the NFL.

 

And what does he do? Takes over a Broncos team that was 4-14 with Kyle Orten as the starting QB, and wins 5 of his 8 starts (4 out of 5 this year). Is it pretty? Nope. Does he play well for 60 minutes? Nope. But the dude is clutch. He delivers when it matters. And he wins. Yet you hate him?

 

I don't hate him.

My criticism comes specifically about his play and style and my opinion that the Broncos will not be able to keep running that offense like that and keep winning.

And the supporters characterizing all criticism hate...and in your case "blind hate"...when its nothing of the sort.

And no, he did not surpass the hype and nuthugging he got in college.

 

Where do I hate him? Where have I said anything close to hating him?

This is also part of the ridiculousness of it.

[SaintsInDome2006 128]

Here's something that even people who are "sick" (for lack of a better term, say like "hate") of Tebow putting his Christianity first need to understand or at least appreciate - that it is about the man's focus.

 

He has super focus, like laser beam Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, Tiger Woods, Bjorn Borg, Joe Montana focus.... but without the soaring talent (for instance in Jordan's case).

 

Be it Christianity or hinduism or being in a zone or meditation or mental tricks or whatever, he has what great athletes have: the ability to block all around him OUT and just focus on the basics: gaining yards, scoring TD's, and winning.

 

And he has a 100% extremely positive attitude, and for anyone out there struggling with studies, work, life, family, whatever, there is a lot to be learned there. Because think about it: you know what, you're right - his throwing motion stinks, he's slow (like an NFL fullback slow), he can't hit a barn with a beachball.... but this very same "low talent, shouldn't be starting for a major high school, has no business on an NFL gridiron poseur" (to his "haters" mind you) is starting for an NFL team, he has turned around their season, is leading their division, just beat an NFL premier defense on national tv, has done it in the face of criticism from the media, from fans, from his own management.... and you don't think he's doing *something* you could maybe learn from?

[blagrange 2]

I don't hate him.

My criticism comes specifically about his play and style and my opinion that the Broncos will not be able to keep running that offense like that and keep winning.

And the supporters characterizing all criticism hate...and in your case "blind hate"...when its nothing of the sort.

And no, he did not surpass the hype and nuthugging he got in college.

 

Where do I hate him? Where have I said anything close to hating him?

This is also part of the ridiculousness of it.

 

You argue and point out negatives about Tebow every chance you get. If you don't hate him what are you doing? next you will say you are playing devils advocate.As far as being sustainable, I don't care, it may or may not and it is widely debated among even the experts. Tim poses a unique problem because of his size and power. I do not believe that the Broncos will run what you see forever, it will Probably be just one set they run as Tim gets better. Why are you trying to take us down a rathole of the sustainable offense? I think most people here are talking about Tebow, not debating whether spread or option is the long term answer.

[cnasty 5]

I'll give the man credit for his win last night. He wins games. That's all that matters at this point. I've stated that I don't think he is legit, but he is proving people like myself wrong week by week. It doesn't matter how you get that W, just that you get it. Mr. Tebow, you have my respect for the week.

[kmbryant09 1]

I don't hate him.

My criticism comes specifically about his play and style and my opinion that the Broncos will not be able to keep running that offense like that and keep winning.

And the supporters characterizing all criticism hate...and in your case "blind hate"...when its nothing of the sort.

And no, he did not surpass the hype and nuthugging he got in college.

 

Where do I hate him? Where have I said anything close to hating him?

This is also part of the ridiculousness of it.

Whatever. I do agree that this offense isn't sustainable long-term without some changes - and it starts with Tebow. He doesn't need to become an elite passer, complete 65% of his passes, or throw for 4,000 yards in a season. But he needs to shorten his delivery, and become more accurate. If they can build a tremendous defense around what should be a great running game (so long as Tebow is your QB), then the passing game will be easier and easier for Tim. Remember, he won't be required to thread the needle with some laser-rocket throws like Manning or Rodgers need to do 30 times a game. He just needs to pick his spots against defenses that are stacking the box.

 

Sidenote: I really think that Tebow's performance/the Broncos' emergence should be one of the biggest stories around the league. Anytime a QB takes over for a terrible team and leads them to a few wins, they garner national attention - and nearly 100% of that attention is positive. Tebow and the Broncos are playing their part, but the media is still 50/50 (if that) in support of Tebow. Why?

[Sho Nuff 720]

You argue and point out negatives about Tebow every chance you get. If you don't hate him what are you doing? next you will say you are playing devils advocate.As far as being sustainable, I don't care, it may or may not and it is widely debated among even the experts. Tim poses a unique problem because of his size and power. I do not believe that the Broncos will run what you see forever, it will Probably be just one set they run as Tim gets better. Why are you trying to take us down a rathole of the sustainable offense? I think most people here are talking about Tebow, not debating whether spread or option is the long term answer.

 

Pointing out someone's negatives to counter the nuthugging going on now equals hating the person?

[Sho Nuff 720]

Whatever. I do agree that this offense isn't sustainable long-term without some changes - and it starts with Tebow. He doesn't need to become an elite passer, complete 65% of his passes, or throw for 4,000 yards in a season. But he needs to shorten his delivery, and become more accurate. If they can build a tremendous defense around what should be a great running game (so long as Tebow is your QB), then the passing game will be easier and easier for Tim. Remember, he won't be required to thread the needle with some laser-rocket throws like Manning or Rodgers need to do 30 times a game. He just needs to pick his spots against defenses that are stacking the box.

 

Sidenote: I really think that Tebow's performance/the Broncos' emergence should be one of the biggest stories around the league. Anytime a QB takes over for a terrible team and leads them to a few wins, they garner national attention - and nearly 100% of that attention is positive. Tebow and the Broncos are playing their part, but the media is still 50/50 (if that) in support of Tebow. Why?

 

So basically...outside of whining about me criticizing him you come to the same conclusion I have that its not sustainable without some marked improvement.

[blagrange 2]

Pointing out someone's negatives to counter the nuthugging going on now equals hating the person?

 

 

Using words like nuthugging while pointing out the negatives makes you a hater.

 

Also, why don't you break down for us why and how this offense will not be sustainable? Don't just talk about about it, back up your claim.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Using words like nuthugging while pointing out the negatives makes you a hater.

 

Also, why don't you break down for us why and how this offense will not be sustainable? Don't just talk about about it, back up your claim.

 

You are right...I hate the nuthuggers.

Does not mean I hate the guy.

 

I believe I have done so already...but to sum up.

 

- NFL defenses are too smart and too fast to run this zone-read consistently.

- NFL defensive coordinators get this on tape and will exploit it badly

- See previous examples of a gimmick that did not work long term (46 defense and the Wildcat)...get enough of it on film and it will be taken apart..

- The NFL is a passing league...having a QB with mediocre passing skills at this point will not work out long term.

- More runs for the QB mean more hits on said QB means more chance for injury

- Until the Jets went and changed their D on the last drive they had limited this great offense to 130ish total yards. Thats a Jets D that has not been all that great this year.

- See the Lions game for what happens when that offense meats a good defense.

- At some point they are going to have to score and score a lot to win...this offense has not done it...why should I assume it can?

[beemo 0]

Here's what I would love to know: why is it that Michael Vick barely hovered around a 50% completion rate (44.2% in his debut season) for the first six years of his career prior to being carted off to prison get a pass to develop but everyone is quick to throw Tebow under a bus after a handful of games?

 

Christian Ponder currently has a 52.1% rating through five games. Tebow was at 50% last year with a coach who believed in his skills before dropping to 44.8% this year with a change in coaching, support, and game planning. Why aren't Vick then and Ponder now getting the heaps of negative spin that Tebow receives, both from the press, fans, and his own team in spite of his winning record?

[Lay the Mallett Down 0]

- NFL defenses are too smart and too fast to run this zone-read consistently.

Are you saying LSU and Alabama were not smart? It worked for Tebow in college against the best defenses in the country.

- NFL defensive coordinators get this on tape and will exploit it badly

They've had the tape for a while.

- See previous examples of a gimmick that did not work long term (46 defense and the Wildcat)...get enough of it on film and it will be taken apart..

The wildcat is a whole different beast. The zone-read and option offenses are successfully run by colleges all the time.

- The NFL is a passing league...having a QB with mediocre passing skills at this point will not work out long term.

It is a passing league because the league has made it so easy to pass. That doesn't mean running won't work. Look at the 49ers this year.

- More runs for the QB mean more hits on said QB means more chance for injury

True.

- Until the Jets went and changed their D on the last drive they had limited this great offense to 130ish total yards. Thats a Jets D that has not been all that great this year.

Fair, but the Jets did change their D, because they felt threatened by the pass.

- See the Lions game for what happens when that offense meets a good defense.

They were not running it in that game.

- At some point they are going to have to score and score a lot to win...this offense has not done it...why should I assume it can?

They are playing the same way the 49ers play, with ball control and good D. That last drive was not a 2 minute drill. It was a long time consuming drive that gave the Jets very little time to comeback.

 

Yes, there are flaws, but it is a good ball control offense.

[blagrange 2]

You are right...I hate the nuthuggers.

Does not mean I hate the guy.

 

I believe I have done so already...but to sum up.

 

- NFL defenses are too smart and too fast to run this zone-read consistently.

- NFL defensive coordinators get this on tape and will exploit it badly

- See previous examples of a gimmick that did not work long term (46 defense and the Wildcat)...get enough of it on film and it will be taken apart..

- The NFL is a passing league...having a QB with mediocre passing skills at this point will not work out long term.

- More runs for the QB mean more hits on said QB means more chance for injury

- Until the Jets went and changed their D on the last drive they had limited this great offense to 130ish total yards. Thats a Jets D that has not been all that great this year.

- See the Lions game for what happens when that offense meats a good defense.

- At some point they are going to have to score and score a lot to win...this offense has not done it...why should I assume it can?

 

 

That is a nice list, and I heard that on the NFL network and ESPN, but I am asking you to draw from your vast NFL defensive scheme knowledge and tell us how you stop that offense. I mean, since you are convinced about this "gimmick offense" that must mean you know how to stop it, right? Otherwise you are just repeating what you have heard just like "Tebow can't win" etc.. You are aware that many experts said the west coast offense would not work back in the day. Right?

 

BTW, Broncos were not running the read option when they played Detroit. They installed it after that game. Also, if you have been watching all the games you would see the read option has been used sparingly since the Raider game. They have lined up in the I formation as well as the spread (other teams use the spread formation as well, like GB)with some option thrown in.

 

Funny, many detractors said the Jets will be a true test, yet after the win they have become mediocre. I guess the Broncos will only be tested when they do happen lose, whomever it may be to.

[blagrange 2]

Here's what I would love to know: why is it that Michael Vick barely hovered around a 50% completion rate (44.2% in his debut season) for the first six years of his career prior to being carted off to prison get a pass to develop but everyone is quick to throw Tebow under a bus after a handful of games?

 

Christian Ponder currently has a 52.1% rating through five games. Tebow was at 50% last year with a coach who believed in his skills before dropping to 44.8% this year with a change in coaching, support, and game planning. Why aren't Vick then and Ponder now getting the heaps of negative spin that Tebow receives, both from the press, fans, and his own team in spite of his winning record?

 

 

I agree with this 100%. Vick also ran a similar offense in ATL for years. He did get injured quite a bit though. I think the difference is that Tebow can take a hit better than Vick.

[kmbryant09 1]

So basically...outside of whining about me criticizing him you come to the same conclusion I have that its not sustainable without some marked improvement.

Well, I'm not sure if you were serious or not, but you even referred to yourself as a labeled, "hater". You've also stated multiple times in this thread that Tim Tebow sucks, and that they can't win with him playing 'poorly'.

 

So while I agree with your long-term assessment that this offense isn't sustainable (UNLESS Tebow continues to improve/evolve), I find it hard to believe that people are still trying to deny Tebow credit for what he's done the past month, and really his overall NFL resume.

[kmbryant09 1]

Sho Nuff - I understand the Broncos haven't exactly knocked off the undefeated Packers or anything, but look at what Tebow's done in his 8 starts in the NFL:

-5 wins, 3 losses.

-3 4th quarter comebacks, including a 15 point comeback in less than 8 minutes and a 13 point deficit in 12 minutes. (Also, in one of the losses, Tebow led another comeback that fell just short).

-In those 3 losses, his defense has given up 31, 39, and 33 points.

-Tebow has accounted for 15 TD's, and just 5 Turnovers in 8 games. That'd be a full season of 30 TD's and 10 Turnovers.

 

If any other QB in the history of the NFL had those kind of numbers in his first 8 starts (with a terrible team, mind you), the media would/should be all over his nuts (as you say). That's why I don't understand the constant hatred/criticism that people have been dishing out.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Yes, there are flaws, but it is a good ball control offense.

 

Im saying NFL defenses are smarter and better than LSU and Alabama.

I don't think they have had as much tape as you think for a while on this type of offense.

I disagree that they are playing the same as the 49ers...I think its similar style of running game and offense...but I disagree to the sustainability of the 9ers offense vs. the Broncos.

[Sho Nuff 720]

That is a nice list, and I heard that on the NFL network and ESPN, but I am asking you to draw from your vast NFL defensive scheme knowledge and tell us how you stop that offense. I mean, since you are convinced about this "gimmick offense" that must mean you know how to stop it, right? Otherwise you are just repeating what you have heard just like "Tebow can't win" etc.. You are aware that many experts said the west coast offense would not work back in the day. Right?

 

BTW, Broncos were not running the read option when they played Detroit. They installed it after that game. Also, if you have been watching all the games you would see the read option has been used sparingly since the Raider game. They have lined up in the I formation as well as the spread (other teams use the spread formation as well, like GB)with some option thrown in.

 

Funny, many detractors said the Jets will be a true test, yet after the win they have become mediocre. I guess the Broncos will only be tested when they do happen lose, whomever it may be to.

 

That list was mine...not from NFLN or ESPN. But not shocking that others would see it the same way.

Never claimed I had a vast knowledge of NFL defensive schemes.

I am convinced it is a gimmick offense. Its the option.

You can keep claiming I am just repeating what I have heard...but what are you doing? Just assuming that it has worked some so far so you think it will continue. What do you base that on?

 

Not sure who said the Jets would be this true test.

Going in the Jets and Sanchez looked like crap offensively and were without LT. Their defense (like GB's this year) has been a shell of its former self and giving up yards and points. And even with that, the Jets held them to 10 points offensively and for much of the game 134 yards while running their base 3-4.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Well, I'm not sure if you were serious or not, but you even referred to yourself as a labeled, "hater". You've also stated multiple times in this thread that Tim Tebow sucks, and that they can't win with him playing 'poorly'.

 

So while I agree with your long-term assessment that this offense isn't sustainable (UNLESS Tebow continues to improve/evolve), I find it hard to believe that people are still trying to deny Tebow credit for what he's done the past month, and really his overall NFL resume.

 

Well, I refer to myself as that label because that label is used so ridiculously these days for anyone who criticizes a player...no matter how valid the criticism.

I don't believe I have just flat out said Tebow sucks or they can't win with him playing 'poorly'.

 

I give him credit for some of it...I also give the defense and special teams a ton of credit. Without them, he may only have one win this year as a starter.

[blagrange 2]

That list was mine...not from NFLN or ESPN. But not shocking that others would see it the same way.

Never claimed I had a vast knowledge of NFL defensive schemes.

I am convinced it is a gimmick offense. Its the option.

You can keep claiming I am just repeating what I have heard...but what are you doing? Just assuming that it has worked some so far so you think it will continue. What do you base that on?

 

Not sure who said the Jets would be this true test.

Going in the Jets and Sanchez looked like crap offensively and were without LT. Their defense (like GB's this year) has been a shell of its former self and giving up yards and points. And even with that, the Jets held them to 10 points offensively and for much of the game 134 yards while running their base 3-4.

 

I am not arguing that it will work or not, that is your argument. your argument has been changing on a weekly basis mind you. All I have ever said about Tebow is that they need to give him a chance for the rest of the year and it will take at least that long to find out if he can improve. You and p00h argued that you knew he would fail and giving him that time is a waste and we should be starting Orton. That is the problem, your argument is a moving target because Tim keeps winning and you have to find another reason why he will fail. All I have to base my opinion on is fact , the broncos are winning after starting 1-4. Most of your points are conjecture.

[Gepetto 1,003]

Tebow has outproduced John Elway and other HOF QBs at this early point of his career, yet he gets criticized because he misses more throws and has a slow release compared to the Aaron Rodgers' and Tom Bradys' of the world. Ridiculous!

[MDC 5,955]

OK, serious question:

 

I really like my fantasy team this year. My 14-teamer, non-PPR roster is:

 

QB: Tebow

RB: Foster

RB: Blount

WR: VJax

WR: Dez

Flex: Lynch

TE: Graham

K: Henery

D: PIT

 

I have Tate, Starks, Tolbert, Celek, Seattle D and Hasselbeck on my bench. I'm the only 8-3 team in my money league and after this week should be pretty close to the top in total points if not #1.

 

What's Tebow's outlook for the rest of the year? Is he a fantasy QB that can get me enough points to win this thing? I lost Schaub last week.

 

Thanks.

[Sho Nuff 720]

I am not arguing that it will work or not, that is your argument. your argument has been changing on a weekly basis mind you. All I have ever said about Tebow is that they need to give him a chance for the rest of the year and it will take at least that long to find out if he can improve. You and p00h argued that you knew he would fail and giving him that time is a waste and we should be starting Orton. That is the problem, your argument is a moving target because Tim keeps winning and you have to find another reason why he will fail. All I have to base my opinion on is fact , the broncos are winning after starting 1-4. Most of your points are conjecture.

 

How has my argument changed?

From the start I have stated I don't think he will make a good NFL QB...and with this recent run it has been about I don't think they can sustain this offense.

Seems the GM agrees with me when he states things that have to improve...like the 3-13 on third down last week.

 

You can keep waiting for him to improve. I will keep saying, I will believe it when I see it. The problems he has are the same ones people said he would have coming out of college. A year and a half later he has the same issue with bad footwork and throwing motion.

 

The only fact you have is the record...which does not say a thing about how it will work going FORWARD.