Should Cam Newton win the ROY?

[jerryskids 5,206]

I went into this thread thinking Cam was a stone cold lock, but then it occurred to me that the voters are probably not FF junkies who spend a lot more time looking at Newton vs. Dalton. Newton has two things going for him which I haven't seen explicitly mentioned:

- A whole lot of people thought he wouldn't make it as an NFL quarterback, and he has proven them quite wrong.

- Green may steal some votes from Dalton (or perhaps more accurately, people view it as a Dalton/Green rookie combo).

 

There is actually a third thing, but I'm hesitant to suggest that Newton being a black quarterback works in his favor, so I won't.

[RamslovaMartzhata 3]

I'll make this real simple... You can have any rookie in the NFL. Which one do you choose? That is what determines rookie of the year, not stats, wins and losses. And my answer is, without a doubt, Cam Newton.

[JT 137]

I'll make this real simple... You can have any rookie in the NFL. Which one do you choose? That is what determines rookie of the year, not stats, wins and losses.

 

I wasn't aware that was the criteria the voters use. Thanks so much for clearing that up!

[Laurence Maroney's Nuts 2]

I'll make this real simple... You can have any rookie in the NFL. Which one do you choose? That is what determines rookie of the year, not stats, wins and losses. And my answer is, without a doubt, Cam Newton.

 

Hang on, hang on, hang on...

 

Roger Goodell posts on this board as RamslovaMartzhata?!

[Bgal85 2]

I'll make this real simple... You can have any rookie in the NFL. Which one do you choose?

 

Andy Dalton

[fantasy master 0]

Dalton has much more then a 10 cent head so I'd go with him for sure.

[roroco 75]

I'll make this real simple... You can have any rookie in the NFL. Which one do you choose? That is what determines rookie of the year, not stats, wins and losses. And my answer is, without a doubt, Cam Newton.

Andy Dalton.. Running QBs are novelties in the the NFL. They never last. Being able to run like Rodgers is a good asset to have, but unless you are a pass first QB... I'll pass.

 

Thanks for your contribution.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

Andy Dalton.. Running QBs are novelties in the the NFL. They never last. Being able to run like Rodgers is a good asset to have, but unless you are a pass first QB... I'll pass.

 

Thanks for your contribution.

Wha? How is Newton a "running QB"? You're going to label him as such because he has that ability?

 

Newton has the tools to blow away your stereotypes for QB's in the NFL.

[JT 137]

Wha? How is Newton a "running QB"? You're going to label him as such because he has that ability?

 

Newton has the tools to blow away your stereotypes for QB's in the NFL.

 

So far, those tools have generated the kind of results that people kill Vick for. More INT than TD, more losses than wins.

[KSB2424 3,083]

I think it will be pretty difficult for Carolina to finish with 2 wins......because they currently have 3.

And they've been competitive in almost every game this year. Losing by less than a TD in most games. A huuuuuuuggggge improvement from last season.

[RoadLizard 73]

Should be Dalton but it will be Cam.

 

I agree - Alls Cam does is lose games. Alls Dalton does is win or at least wins a lot more than Cam. Dalton loks to be a more REAL NFL quarterback. Show me a run-first QB that has lasted or really won anything signifigant? There arent any. It always ends up the same with these guys:

 

- Huge fantasy stats

- Lots of picks

- Lots of rushing yards

- After a few years their bodies cant take it(See Vick) and they break down physically.

- When they actually have to rely on throwing they cant do it and fizzle into obscurity and or become mediocre back ups at best. See Vince Young.

 

Look - I like Cam from a fantasy perspective. He seems like a good kid and has shown some flashes. But, Ive been watching football for a long time and the all time great QBs sometimes use running as a TOOL in their arsenal but it is NEVER their main weapon. Elway and Steve Young were good runners but their passing skills are what paid the bills so to speak. Big Ben and Rodgers are good examples of guys that can get away from the Rush and scamper for a 1st down. But, they'll try and make a play with their arm first.

 

Tebow is another one that just wont make it. Its nothing against Cam but if I was starting a franchise from scratch and had to choose a rookie QB from this year, Its Dalton ALL DAY and it isnt even close.

[woodchuck312 0]

Newton is not a run first QB. IN fact he has passed the ball more times this year than Dalton and with a higher completion % and more yards per completion than Dalton. They also both have about the same QB Rating. The only difference is Cam has 10 rushing TOUCHDOWNs and nearly 500 yards on the ground.

 

In my mind that puts Cam in front.

 

I agree - Alls Cam does is lose games. Alls Dalton does is win or at least wins a lot more than Cam. Dalton loks to be a more REAL NFL quarterback. Show me a run-first QB that has lasted or really won anything signifigant? There arent any. It always ends up the same with these guys:

 

- Huge fantasy stats

- Lots of picks

- Lots of rushing yards

- After a few years their bodies cant take it(See Vick) and they break down physically.

- When they actually have to rely on throwing they cant do it and fizzle into obscurity and or become mediocre back ups at best. See Vince Young.

 

Look - I like Cam from a fantasy perspective. He seems like a good kid and has shown some flashes. But, Ive been watching football for a long time and the all time great QBs sometimes use running as a TOOL in their arsenal but it is NEVER their main weapon. Elway and Steve Young were good runners but their passing skills are what paid the bills so to speak. Big Ben and Rodgers are good examples of guys that can get away from the Rush and scamper for a 1st down. But, they'll try and make a play with their arm first.

 

Tebow is another one that just wont make it. Its nothing against Cam but if I was starting a franchise from scratch and had to choose a rookie QB from this year, Its Dalton ALL DAY and it isnt even close.

[JT 137]

Newton is not a run first QB. IN fact he has passed the ball more times this year than Dalton and with a higher completion % and more yards per completion than Dalton. They also both have about the same QB Rating. The only difference is Cam has 10 rushing TOUCHDOWNs and nearly 500 yards on the ground.

 

 

No, not the only difference. There's also Dalton with 16 TD/12 INT and 2 Fumbles vs Newton's 10 TD/14 INT and 3 Fumbles.

 

Oh, and Dalton's wins.

[GridIronAssassin#1 0]

Total fantasy points for the season has Cam Newton in 2nd place overall, only behind Aaron Rogers in standard yahoo format. Andy Dalton is 15th and 100 points behind Cam Newton. So, if you're picking Dalton, you're picking on something other than stats.

[JT 137]

Total fantasy points for the season has Cam Newton in 2nd place overall, only behind Aaron Rogers in standard yahoo format. Andy Dalton is 15th and 100 points behind Cam Newton. So, if you're picking Dalton, you're picking on something other than stats.

 

Psssttt...fantasy football points don't apply when selecting real life football award winners.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

Psssttt...fantasy football points don't apply when selecting real life football award winners.

I think he was implying that fantasy points are driven by stats. And that Cam's stats as a whole are better than Dalton's, beyond W's and L's.

[seadog54 20]

it's funny how you guys compare the wins of Dalton vs. Newton. Last I checked, the QB position doesn't play defense. Cincy defense is MUCH better than Carolina's defense.

 

If you put Dalton in Carolina, how many more win's will he get? Can Dalton keep up offensively as Newton to keep Carolina in the game?

 

Imagine if Carolina actually had a defense?

[RicemanX 20]

it's funny how you guys compare the wins of Dalton vs. Newton. Last I checked, the QB position doesn't play defense. Cincy defense is MUCH better than Carolina's defense.

 

If you put Dalton in Carolina, how many more win's will he get? Can Dalton keep up offensively as Newton to keep Carolina in the game?

 

Imagine if Carolina actually had a defense?

 

Then you should add in all the games when Cam is playing against prevent D by the middle of the 4th because the panthers were losing by 20+. How many garbage yards and TDs did Cam pick up during those situations?

 

While Dalton had to work hard for every single one of his yards because almost every game Cinci played was competitiv.

 

If we're counting fantasy football and garbage points as the standard for who should be a top player in the NFL, then Fred Davis is a top 5 Tight End.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

Then you should add in all the games when Cam is playing against prevent D by the middle of the 4th because the panthers were losing by 20+. How many garbage yards and TDs did Cam pick up during those situations?

 

While Dalton had to work hard for every single one of his yards because almost every game Cinci played was competitiv.

 

No offense but I think this is really dumb.

[RicemanX 20]

No offense but I think this is really dumb.

 

how is saying that cam got most of his stats during garbage time dumb?

 

No offense but I think it is really dumb to just say something random like that without explaining anything. It's like you don't have an argument but just wanted to insult someone.

[KSB2424 3,083]

There is a whole lot of nonsense in this thread. I simply don't think many people have seen any Carolina Panther games this season and are talking out of their ass.

 

1. Cam Newton is NOT a run first QB. Anybody that's seem the Panthers play knows this. He can run, and does alot (especially inside the 10 yard line) but for the overwhelming majority of the time he is a pocket passer. He runs when the protection breaks down. And it's great because he extends plays.

 

2. The Panthers have been in exactly TWO blowout games this year. Every other game they were either leading or within a TD of the game in the 4th quarter. So please stop with all the "but his stats are garbage time stats" stuff.

 

We can debate who wins the ROY award all day, but at least pretend like you've see a game or two of the players you're talking about for cyring out loud.

[roroco 75]

There is a whole lot of nonsense in this thread. I simply don't think many people have seen any Carolina Panther games this season and are talking out of their ass.

 

1. Cam Newton is NOT a run first QB. Anybody that's seem the Panthers play knows this. He can run, and does alot (especially inside the 10 yard line) but for the overwhelming majority of the time he is a pocket passer. He runs when the protection breaks down. And it's great because he extends plays.

 

2. The Panthers have been in exactly TWO blowout games this year. Every other game they were either leading or within a TD of the game in the 4th quarter. So please stop with all the "but his stats are garbage time stats" stuff.

 

We can debate who wins the ROY award all day, but at least pretend like you've see a game or two of the players you're talking about for cyring out loud.

I am not saying he is a run first QB... If he is under pressure, he will run, where a QB like Rodgers will prefer to use his legs to give him more time to make the play. Both are effective, but if your QB is rushing for 10 touchdowns, then he is past the line of scrimmage a LOT. Linebackers and safeties love that, and those type of QB just don't last with the defenses these days. Cam is a great rookie, but he only has 3 wins under his belt. It is hard for me to title a ROTY based on purely fantasy stats when they have yet to prove they can actually win games.

[KSB2424 3,083]

I am not saying he is a run first QB... If he is under pressure, he will run, where a QB like Rodger will prefer to use his legs to give him more time to make the play. Both are effective, but if your QB is rushing for 10 touchdowns, then he is past the line of scrimmage a LOT. Linebackers and safeties love that, and those type of QB just don't last with the defenses these days. Cam is a great rookie, but he only has 3 wins under his belt. It is hard for me to title a ROTY based on purely fantasy stats when they have yet to prove they can actually win games.

So what your saying is scoring 10 TD's in the redzone whith your legs is somehow a bad thing? And now you're comparing him to Aaron Rodgers? The best QB in the game right now? Nobody measures up to that. You're all over the place.

 

Cam Newton has better stats than Andy Dalton.

 

Cam Newton means more to his team than Andy Dalton.

 

The Bengal offense ranks 18th in the league, their defense ranks 5th. Freaking 5th.

The Panther offense ranks 5th in the league , their defense ranks 24th. Freaking 24th.

Which side of the ball does QB's play?

Doesn't that have to do more with why the Panthers have 3 wins and the Bengals 7? If the Bengals had the 24th ranked defense in the league they would be 2-9 right now.

 

I guess it's a worthy discussion, but it really isn't even that close. The best rookie this season has been Cam Newton. Bottom Line.

[roroco 75]

So what your saying is scoring 10 TD's in the redzone whith your legs is somehow a bad thing? And now you're comparing him to Aaron Rodgers? The best QB in the game right now? Nobody measures up to that. You're all over the place.

 

Cam Newton has better stats than Andy Dalton.

 

Cam Newton means more to his team than Andy Dalton.

 

The Bengal offense ranks 18th in the league, their defense ranks 5th. Freaking 5th.

The Panther offense ranks 5th in the league , their defense ranks 24th. Freaking 24th.

Which side of the ball does QB's play?

Doesn't that have to do more with why the Panthers have 3 wins and the Bengals 7? If the Bengals had the 24th ranked defense in the league they would be 2-9 right now.

 

I guess it's a worthy discussion, but it really isn't even that close. The best rookie this season has been Cam Newton. Bottom Line.

You're twisting words. I was asked which QB I would rather have right now... I said Dalton because the life cycle on running QBs is very low. That is why I was talking about his rushing stats.

 

As for ROTY... You say Cam means more to his team than Dalton. I see what you are saying, but that worth is only one more game from last year so far. Yes his stats are better, but what does that mean without making the team actually better?

[RamslovaMartzhata 3]

ROY is not based on stats, wins or losses... It's about who the best player is. There have been plenty of ROYs on bad or average teams. And to me, it's easy to see which player is better with a simple eye test. Can anyone sit there and say Trent Dilfer was the better QB than Kurt Warner in 2001 because he had more wins and won a Super Bowl? It's an extreme example but the same principle. Look at the schedules of the Bengals and Panthers. Don't get me wrong, Dalton has been very impressive... But he's not the rookie of the year.

[KSB2424 3,083]

As for ROTY... You say Cam means more to his team than Dalton. I see what you are saying, but that worth is only one more game from last year so far. Yes his stats are better, but what does that mean without making the team actually better?

When you are the number one draft pick that means you went to the absolute worst team in the league. The Panthers last year stunk. They weren't even competitive. They hardly even had a chance to win. When the game started you knew the outcome and it was probably a blow out.

 

This year? They are IN almost every game. 5 of their 8 losses are by less than a TD. They will more than likely double their win total. All with a very bad defense. The Panthers are rebuilding. Cam Newton is almost single handidly keeping them in games.

 

The Bengals won 10 games in 2009 and last year was an abberation. That team had talent and was already pretty good. They have the 5th ranked Defense in the league. Kyle Orton could win 8-9 games a season with the 5th ranked defense in the league.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Tebow.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

Then you should add in all the games when Cam is playing against prevent D by the middle of the 4th because the panthers were losing by 20+. How many garbage yards and TDs did Cam pick up during those situations?

 

While Dalton had to work hard for every single one of his yards because almost every game Cinci played was competitiv.

 

If we're counting fantasy football and garbage points as the standard for who should be a top player in the NFL, then Fred Davis is a top 5 Tight End.

As stated before Carolina has been in most games they've played this year. The 1 blowout I see was against Tennessee and Carolina scored 3 points so Cam wasn't padding his stats. Where are all the games they were down by 20+ and Cam was padding his stats? I can't find them, can you? And do you have proof that Cam has been facing a lot of prevent D's?

 

Almost every game Carolina's played in has been competitive. How the heck is Dalton working harder for every single yard than Newton?

[seadog54 20]

Tebow.

 

dude, for real? Tebow was a rookie LAST year.

[Joey Gladstone 33]

Andy Dalton is by far the superior QB and should be ROY. If you disagree you haven't watched them both play.

 

I would put Green as runner up.

 

I have watched them both play and I disagree. The difference is Cam still has a lot of room for improvement and Dalton is about at his ceiling already.

 

Also back to the wins argument.. it helps That Andy plays for a team with a good defense. The Panthers might have the worst defense in the league. That alone can account for 4 wins by itself.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

I am not saying he is a run first QB... If he is under pressure, he will run, where a QB like Rodgers will prefer to use his legs to give him more time to make the play. Both are effective, but if your QB is rushing for 10 touchdowns, then he is past the line of scrimmage a LOT. Linebackers and safeties love that, and those type of QB just don't last with the defenses these days. Cam is a great rookie, but he only has 3 wins under his belt. It is hard for me to title a ROTY based on purely fantasy stats when they have yet to prove they can actually win games.

I don't get the comparison to Rodgers. Totally different QB's. Rodgers and Brees are a good comparison. I can't see a good comparison to Newton. It's not Vick because Vick is small. Cam dwarfs any safeties and even LB's coming his way.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

dude, for real? Tebow was a rookie LAST year.

Oh, I thought this was the MVP thread.

[KSB2424 3,083]

I don't get the comparison to Rodgers. Totally different QB's. Rodgers and Brees are a good comparison. I can't see a good comparison to Newton. It's not Vick because Vick is small. Cam dwarfs any safeties and even LB's coming his way.

Cam Newton is nothing like Michael Vick. For some reason people want to use that comparison.

 

A better compariosn is that Cam Newton is a more athletic Big Ben. Or a Dante Culpeppper (in his young Minny days). That is how Cam plays. A pocket passer who extends plays with his legs/size and throws a good deep ball.

[roroco 75]

I don't get the comparison to Rodgers. Totally different QB's. Rodgers and Brees are a good comparison. I can't see a good comparison to Newton. It's not Vick because Vick is small. Cam dwarfs any safeties and even LB's coming his way.

I am not comparing them. I was contrasting them. Both are very mobile QBs, but one uses his legs in a way that is will get him hit more and is riskier. Sure Cam can learn to hold back longer and wait for the pass instead of running, but the way he is playing right now is very risky. I'd rather not have my QB get hit so much.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

I am not comparing them. I was contrasting them. Both are very mobile QBs, but one uses his legs in a way that is will get him hit more and is riskier. Sure Cam can learn to hold back longer and wait for the pass instead of running, but the way he is playing right now is very risky. I'd rather not have my QB get hit so much.

Newton is a rookie and will learn. He's also much bigger and sturdier than other guys, like Rodgers.

 

He's playing to win, which I admire in my QB.

[p00h 85]

how is saying that cam got most of his stats during garbage time dumb?

 

No offense but I think it is really dumb to just say something random like that without explaining anything. It's like you don't have an argument but just wanted to insult someone.

its dumb because you have zero idea what you are talking about. You are literally stating the opposite of what the truth is. He's gotten practically zero production out of garbage time...

 

 

Bottom line is this, his numbers have been analyzed against the greatest rookie QB seasons of all time, and the numbers are saying he might have arguable the most productive season of any rookie qb in the history of the NFL. Not the more productive season between him and red. It won't be close, he'll likely get every single first place vote...

[Bgal85 2]

How many people actually watch Panther and Bengals' games to the extent that they really know? Stats only mean so much.

[Buttmonkey 8]

This is really simple - Cam >> Dalton

 

Cam on Cincy's team and they probably have better record, Dalton on Carolina's team and their probably winless.

[Bgal85 2]

Dalton has played 6 games against top 7 defenses.

 

Cam has played 2 games against top 10 defenses.

 

Just more to consider...

[Buttmonkey 8]

Dalton has played 6 games against top 7 defenses.

 

Cam has played 2 games against top 10 defenses.

 

Just more to consider...

 

Not buying it. Cincy's victories are 2 against the Browns, the Jag, the Colts, the Bills, Seahawks and Titans. Dalton has the good fortune of having a good defense. By the way, no victories over "those stellar" defenses. Just more consider...