Self Defense Killing in Florida...Geeks got an opinion?

[Voltaire 4,562]

It came out yesterday that Zimmerman's mom had a black grandfather, which raises two questions:

 

1. Does this make him an African-American White Hispanic?

2. If Obama had another son............

 

I'm jealous. That dude gets to check all the best boxes without having to exaggerate like Elizabeth Warren and my kids have to do:

 

http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2011/11/03/modern-humans-wandered-out-of-africa-via-arabia/

[IGotWorms 3,315]

Believe what? That Martin could have been on top of Zimmerman unleashing a can of whuppass, when suddenly a gun pops out and Martin freaks out while wrestling with it?

 

Besides, it doesn't matter what we believe. Ballistics should determine the proximity and angle of the shot.

 

I agree - ballistics will be key.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Still waiting on this RP

Keep waiting cuz i am not going thru 37 pages. Face it, you covered every possible base and are now patting yourself on the back. It's comical.

 

It would be like you buying all 100 squares in a football pot, and the doing a victory dance after the game cuz you "won" money.

[Strike 3,979]

Does the media have a story?

 

I just know that if they can prove the voice pleading/crying/begging for help for ten seconds was Martin then Zimmerman deserves to be found guilty. I want to listen to how these determinations are made. I want the two expert sound evidence witnesses to explain how their devices work, prove how accurate their devices work, and show us why they conclude beyond reasonable doubt that voice isn't Zimmerman. I don't know the first thing about this. I hope to discover that the devices are of tip top quality, not some slappy crappy POS that has trouble distinguishing Sam Kinneson from Shirley Temple from Bobcat Goldthwaite.

 

Common sense seems to indicate that voice was the one of the person about to be shot. It was already very, very, very hard to believe it was Zimmerman even before the expert testimony came out.

 

They can't. I'm not sure if you really thought you were bringing up something new when you posted that link last night but if you didn't notice it was from the end of March. This was brought up pages ago and, as usual, I schooled Nikki. I showed that even when they can make an ID via voice printing, it requires an EXACT copy of the spoken words/phrases from the people in question. There's no way they're going to get that from Zimmerman and, even if they did, this type of identification has a mixed reputation. Ultimately, I can pretty much guaranfockingtee you that they won't be admitting this as evidence in the case.

[Strike 3,979]

Odds? Fock no, self defense cases are never easy. Even.

 

Yeah, I can see how much you really "like your chances."

 

 

:banana:

[BLS 313]

Did you follow this story at all? It's undisputed that Zimmerman followed Martin. His own story is that he was jumped after getting out of his vehicle to look for Martin.

 

STRAIGHT FROM THE POLICE REPORT:

 

In his version of events, he had turned around and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from behind, the two exchanged words then Trayvon punched him in the nose, sending him to the ground, and began beating him.

 

Zimmerman told police he shot the teenager in self-defense.

 

UNDISPUTED HUH?

 

From who? Trayvon Martin? Nope. He ain't talking to anybody ever again.

So who then, has any facts to dispute George Zimmerman's statement (which BTW coincide DIRECTLY with the facts).

 

You're a FUCKIN IDIOT. You purposely just try to piss people off with your retardness.

 

here's a FUCKIN MOVIE stating a WITNESS who says Trayvon ATTACKED George Zimmerman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuPmu8UUbpQ

 

Oh....and there's this nice little morsel.

 

A medical report compiled by the family physician of accused Trayvon Martin murderer George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation.

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RaAgI7eZMg

[BLS 313]

What's the bet? I'll agree to this: if it goes to a jury and Zimmerman is not convicted of murder or a manslaughter (ie, there is a hung jury or acquittal), then you win. If he is convicted, I win.

 

How are we gonna be sure the other person pays up?

 

$1,000. Straight up cash. ETA: Murder

 

You game?

 

I'll get RedTodd (lives about 20 miles from me and we've met in person a couple of times) to vouch for me and he can collect if I lose.

 

What you got?

[IGotWorms 3,315]

Keep waiting cuz i am not going thru 37 pages. Face it, you covered every possible base and are now patting yourself on the back. It's comical.

 

Yup, just as I thought - you were focking lying again

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Yup, just as I thought - you were focking lying again

Nope. Just not gonna search thru 39 pages of your dumbass posts. You say Zimmerman stalked Martin, and in one of the posts JTB bumped today you said he killed him in cold blood. Even stood over him for a while before shooting him.

 

In legal circles the call that premeditation. That makes it Murder 1. Feel free to google the term if you haven't heard the term before.

 

See, just in the posts JTB bumped you have (no doubt unwittingly) argued fir murder 1. No need to dig any further.

[Voltaire 4,562]

They can't. I'm not sure if you really thought you were bringing up something new when you posted that link last night but if you didn't notice it was from the end of March. This was brought up pages ago and, as usual, I schooled Nikki. I showed that even when they can make an ID via voice printing, it requires an EXACT copy of the spoken words/phrases from the people in question. There's no way they're going to get that from Zimmerman and, even if they did, this type of identification has a mixed reputation. Ultimately, I can pretty much guaranfockingtee you that they won't be admitting this as evidence in the case.

 

If you're right, and I've no reason to doubt you, then it's going to be really hard to convict Zimmerman. Since Zimmerman says it's him, even though -to me- it defies common sense, he'd get the benefit of the doubt.

 

I don't know how well these things work, what's required to make them work, how admissible they are in court, or what the prosecution has up it's sleeve. I hope you're wrong but you seem certain whereas I have no idea about any of this.

 

Honestly, my sympathy is entirely tied into the voice in the background of the 9-11 tape. You hear that and you melt. At least I did and I'm pretty focking jaded after posting here for ten years. Call it gut instinct and remind me how well gut instinct worked when I took Peyton Hillis in the first round last year, there's no focking way that's Zimmerman. It happens a lot around here, something I think that's totally obvious... isn't to other people. I'm use to being shocked.

 

That voice is of a kid who got royally screwed. Degree of certainty ... about where Naomi is of God

[Strike 3,979]

If you're right, and I've no reason to doubt you, then it's going to be really hard to convict Zimmerman. Since Zimmerman says it's him, even though -to me- it defies common sense, he'd get the benefit of the doubt.

 

I don't know how well these things work, what's required to make them work, how admissible they are in court, or what the prosecution has up it's sleeve. I hope you're wrong but you seem certain whereas I have no idea about any of this.

 

Honestly, my sympathy is entirely tied into the voice in the background of the 9-11 tape. You hear that and you melt. At least I did and I'm pretty focking jaded after posting here for ten years. Call it gut instinct and remind me how well gut instinct worked when I took Peyton Hillis in the first round last year, there's no focking way that's Zimmerman. It happens a lot around here, something I think that's totally obvious... isn't to other people. I'm use to being shocked.

 

That voice is of a kid who got royally screwed.

 

Nikki and I both posted links to go along with the discussion.

 

[Voltaire 4,562]

Nikki and I both posted links to go along with the discussion.

 

 

Ah it's buried never to be seen again ... much like the proof that I've thrown Red Green's name out there twice.

[kutulu 1,551]

Ah it's buried never to be seen again ... much like the proof that I've thrown Red Green's name out there twice.

 

Proof

[IGotWorms 3,315]

Nope. Just not gonna search thru 39 pages of your dumbass posts. You say Zimmerman stalked Martin, and in one of the posts JTB bumped today you said he killed him in cold blood. Even stood over him for a while before shooting him.

 

In legal circles the call that premeditation. That makes it Murder 1. Feel free to google the term if you haven't heard the term before.

 

See, just in the posts JTB bumped you have (no doubt unwittingly) argued fir murder 1. No need to dig any further.

 

Oh, so I never did say it was murder one but you just went ahead and attributed that to me anyway?

 

Like I said: you are a liar. You've proven it time and again.

[JTB 52]

I agree - ballistics will be key.

 

 

Details from Trayvon Martin's autopsy show the bullet entered the left side of his chest, and shattered the ventrical, one of his heart's two large chambers but the round did not leave his body.

 

 

The reports also noted the fatal wound's surrounded by a two-by-two inch pattern called stippling, caused by gunpower burns. It suggests Zimmerman fired inches away from the teenager.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Oh, so I never did say it was murder one but you just went ahead and attributed that to me anyway?

 

Like I said: you are a liar. You've proven it time and again.

The scenario you laid out in the post JTB bumped this morning constitutes Murder 1. That's Lawyerstuff 101, so I can see why it's over your head.

 

No need for me to go thru 39 pages of your dumbassery.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

The scenario you laid out in the post JTB bumped this morning constitutes Murder 1.

 

No need for me to go thru 39 pages of your dumbassery.

 

You can't even admit when you're caught in a bald-faced lie. You should be a politician.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

It was prolly unfair of me to use big legalese werds like "premeditated" against you. Pretend lawyers can't be expected to know terms like that.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

It was prolly unfair of me to use big legalese werds like "premeditated" against you. Pretend lawyers can't be expected to know terms like that.

 

I am not going to try to explain the distinction between premeditation and intent. You are far too dumb to understand it. Suffice to say I never suggested Zimmerman should be charged with murder one.

[BLS 313]

I am not going to try to explain the distinction between premeditation and intent. You are far too dumb to understand it. Suffice to say I never suggested Zimmerman should be charged with murder one.

 

 

$1,000. Straight up cash. Murder.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Oops! Looks like the autopsy shows he was shot at point blank range, not from Zimmerman standing over him for a while.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

$1,000. Straight up cash. Murder.

 

Is that supposed to be some kind of offer?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Worms said the case would hinge on the ballistics. Well, they are out and support Zimmerman's account......much like all the other medical evidence.

 

Mebbe it's time for Worms to man up and reverse his early conviction untill all facts are out.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Apparently the ballistics report isn't what Worms was looking for.

[jerryskids 5,206]

Apparently the ballistics report isn't what Worms was looking for.

 

I'm pretty sure that ballistics info posted above has been out for a while; seemed familiar anyway. I figured that there must be more that we haven't heard. IMO, the only way they have a case is if they can show that the shot wasn't pointblank, combined with the circumstantial audio analysis. Otherwise this case is just the DA's office putting on a show to say "hey it isn't our fault he's free, we tried to convict him, it's that dangblasted Stand Your Ground law." Which I'm increasingly thinking...

[BLS 313]

Is that supposed to be some kind of offer?

 

Yes. Zimmerman gets convicted of murder, you get a grand from me. He walks you pay me a grand.

[BLS 313]

I'm pretty sure that ballistics info posted above has been out for a while; seemed familiar anyway. I figured that there must be more that we haven't heard. IMO, the only way they have a case is if they can show that the shot wasn't pointblank, combined with the circumstantial audio analysis. Otherwise this case is just the DA's office putting on a show to say "hey it isn't our fault he's free, we tried to convict him, it's that dangblasted Stand Your Ground law." Which I'm increasingly thinking...

 

Exactly what they are trying to do. Appease the masses.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Yes. Zimmerman gets convicted of murder, you get a grand from me. He walks you pay me a grand.

I predict :crickets: in your future.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

Yes. Zimmerman gets convicted of murder, you get a grand from me. He walks you pay me a grand.

 

Okay, well a grand is pretty crazy. Especially since there's no guarantee of payment. (Don't get me wrong, I think you are a trustworthy guy, but it is the internet and all.) Fifty bucks sounds reasonable.

 

But I want voluntary manslaughter to count too, and what happens if there is a plea or the charges are dropped or tossed out? If it doesn't go to a jury, the bet is off.

 

Deal?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Not looking good for the Worms conviction.

 

[

 

 

Cops, Witnesses Back Up George Zimmerman's Version of Trayvon Martin Shooting

 

By MATT GUTMAN

 

May 17, 2012

 

Two police reports written the night that George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin said that Zimmerman had a bloody face and nose, according to police reports made public today.

 

The reports also note that two witness accounts appear to back up Zimmerman's version of what happened when they describe a man on his back with another person wearing a hoodie straddling him and throwing punches.

 

It has been such a contentious case that even the evidence is being disputed.

 

The police report states that Trayvon Martin's father told an investigator after listening to 911 tapes that captured a man's voice frantically callling for help that it was not his son calling for help.

 

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/cops-witnesses-back-george-zimmermans-version/story?id=16371852

[Strike 3,979]

Okay, well a grand is pretty crazy. Especially since there's no guarantee of payment. (Don't get me wrong, I think you are a trustworthy guy, but it is the internet and all.) Fifty bucks sounds reasonable.

 

But I want voluntary manslaughter to count too, and what happens if there is a plea or the charges are dropped or tossed out? If it doesn't go to a jury, the bet is off.

 

Deal?

 

Well, this really sounds like someone who "likes his chances."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NOT!!!

 

:banana:

[jerryskids 5,206]

Not looking good for the Worms conviction.

 

[

 

 

http://abcnews.go.co...ory?id=16371852

Ouch. That's gonna leave a mark.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Fifty bucks sounds reasonable.

 

Sounds more like a Fry Cook's bet than an Attorney's bet.

[Strike 3,979]

Another officer wrote, "I saw that Zimmerman's face was bloodied and it appeared to me that his nose was broken."

 

[Strike 3,979]

Autopsy: Drug THC found in Trayvon Martin's system

By the CNN Wire Staff

updated 7:24 PM EDT, Thu May 17, 2012

 

(CNN) -- Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system when he was fatally shot earlier this year by George Zimmerman in Sanford, Florida, according to autopsy results released Thursday.

 

Martin's blood contained THC, which is the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, according to an autopsy conducted February 27 -- the day after the teenager was shot dead.

 

Toxicology tests found elements of the drug in the teenager's chest blood -- 1.5 nanograms per milliliter of one type (THC), as well as 7.3 nanograms of another type (THC-COOH) -- according to the medical examiner's report. There was also a presumed positive test of cannabinoids in Martin's urine. It was not immediately clear how significant these amounts were.

 

Concentrations of THC routinely rise to 100 to 200 ng/ml after marijuana use, though it typically falls to below 5 ng/ml within three hours of it being smoked, according to information on the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's website.

 

While some states have zero-tolerance policies for any drug traces for driving while impaired, others set certain benchmarks, the website of California's Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs notes. In Nevada, that equates to 2 ng/ml for THC and 5 ng/ml for THC-COOH -- also known as marijuana metabolite. The cutoff level in Ohio is 2 ng/ml for THC and 50 ng/ml for THC-COOH.

 

Dr. Drew Pinsky, an addiction specialist who hosts a show on CNN's sister network HLN, downplayed the findings about the THC blood levels, noting the drug can stay in a person's system for hours, even days.

 

According to the medical examiner's report, which was one of several documents on the case released Thursday by the office of special prosecutor Angela Corey, Martin died from a gunshot wounded to chest fired from "intermediate range" -- within 36 inches.

 

The autopsy report lists the manner of death as a homicide.

 

Zimmerman, 28, is charged with second-degree murder for killing Martin in the Sanford neighborhood where the African-American teen was staying.

 

Prior to the shooting, Zimmerman had called 911 to complain about a suspicious person in the neighborhood, according to authorities.

 

In the call, Zimmerman said he was following Martin after the teen started to run, prompting the dispatcher to tell him, "We don't need you to do that."

 

Zimmerman apparently disregarded that advice.

 

Much has been made about whether Zimmerman during that call used a racial epithet in referring to Martin. But an FBI analysis, released Thursday, determined that the word could not be definitively identified "due to weak signal level and poor recording quality."

 

A screaming voice could be heard on other 911 calls placed by neighbors, with some speculating those screams came from Martin and others that they belonged to Zimmerman. The FBI did not make a final determination either way, citing several reasons including the fact they came during "an extreme emotional state," there weren't enough words to make a good comparison and the sound quality was low and distant.

 

Zimmerman claimed, according a police report released earlier, that he'd been "assaulted (by Martin) and his head was struck on the pavement."

 

According a report from the Sanford Fire Department, released Thursday, Zimmerman had "abrasions to his forehead," "bleeding/tenderness to his nose," and a "small laceration to the back of his head" when he was treated at the scene.

 

Prosecutors have said Zimmerman, who is a white Hispanic, killed the unarmed teenager unjustly after profiling him. Zimmerman, who has pleaded not guilty, has said that he shot Martin in self-defense.

 

The start of the trial hasn't been set.

 

The case put a spotlight on race relations, spurring protests nationwide and drawing prominent civil rights leaders to central Florida denouncing the actions of Sanford police and calling for Zimmerman's arrest. Special prosecutor Angela Corey announced he'd been charged on April 11, weeks after Sanford police initially declined to do so.

 

It also raised questions about gun laws, as well as the merits of the "Stand Your Ground" law in Florida, and similar laws in other states that allow people to use deadly force anywhere they feel a reasonable threat of serious injury or death.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/17/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

[IGotWorms 3,315]

Who gives a sh!t if there was pot in Martin's system? It's not relevant nor would it be admissible.

 

I am much more interested in the voice screaming for help. Interesting that the FBI couldn't say who it was. State investigators can get their own experts, but that nugget could hurt them for sure.

[Strike 3,979]

Who gives a sh!t if there was pot in Martin's system? It's not relevant nor would it be admissible.

 

 

No one. You should take BLS's bet. Unless you really don't like your chances.

 

[Recliner Pilot 61]

:

 

I am much more interested in the voice screaming for help.

 

 

I guess you missed this:

The police report states that Trayvon Martin's father told an investigator after listening to 911 tapes that captured a man's voice frantically callling for help that it was not his son calling for help.

[Vikings4ever 496]

Who gives a sh!t if there was pot in Martin's system? It's not relevant nor would it be admissible.

 

I am much more interested in the voice screaming for help. Interesting that the FBI couldn't say who it was. State investigators can get their own experts, but that nugget could hurt them for sure.

I'd say it gives credence to Zimmerman's state of mind. He claims he believed he spotted someone possibly on drugs, Martin had pot in his system.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

I'd say it gives credence to Zimmerman's state of mind. He claims he believed he spotted someone possibly on drugs, Martin had pot in his system.

 

I dunno, trace amounts of THC doesn't really amount to being "on drugs", does it? Seems like a huge stretch to me.