Self Defense Killing in Florida...Geeks got an opinion?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Drop George Zimmerman’s murder charge

 

New evidence suggests Trayvon Martin's killer acted in self-defense

 

By Alan Dershowitz / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

 

A medical report by George Zimmerman’s doctor has disclosed that Zimmerman had a fractured nose, two black eyes, two lacerations on the back of his head and a back injury on the day after the fatal shooting. If this evidence turns out to be valid, the prosecutor will have no choice but to drop the second-degree murder charge against Zimmerman — if she wants to act ethically, lawfully and professionally.

 

There is, of course, no assurance that the special prosecutor handling the case, State Attorney Angela Corey, will do the right thing. Because until now, her actions have been anything but ethical, lawful and professional.

 

She was aware when she submitted an affidavit that it did not contain the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. She deliberately withheld evidence that supported Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense. The New York Times has reported that the police had “a full face picture” of Zimmerman, before paramedics treated him, that showed “a bloodied nose.” The prosecutor also had photographic evidence of bruises to the back of his head.

 

But none of this was included in any affidavit.

 

POLICE: TRAYVON'S DEATH WAS 'AVOIDABLE'

 

Now there is much more extensive medical evidence that would tend to support Zimmerman’s version of events. This version, if true, would establish self-defense even if Zimmerman had improperly followed, harassed and provoked Martin.

 

A defendant, under Florida law, loses his “stand your ground” defense if he provoked the encounter — but he retains traditional self-defense if he reasonably believed his life was in danger and his only recourse was to employ deadly force.

 

Thus, if Zimmerman verbally provoked Martin, but Martin then got on top of Zimmerman and banged his head into the ground, broke his nose, bloodied his eyes and persisted in attacking Zimmerman — and if Zimmerman couldn’t protect himself from further attack except by shooting Martin — he would have the right to do that. (The prosecution has already admitted that it has no evidence that Zimmerman started the actual fight.)

 

This is a fact-specific case, in which much turns on what the jury believes beyond a reasonable doubt. It must resolve all such doubts in favor of the defendant, because our system of justice insists that it is better for 10 guilty defendants to go free than for even one innocent to be wrongfully convicted.

 

You wouldn’t know that from listening to Corey, who announced that her jobs was “to do justice for Trayvon Martin” — not for George Zimmerman.

 

As many see it, her additional job is to prevent riots of the sort that followed the acquittal of the policemen who beat Rodney King.

 

Indeed, Mansfield Frazier, a columnist for the Daily Beast, has suggested that it is the responsibility of the legal system to “avert a large scale racial calamity.” He has urged Zimmerman’s defense lawyer to become a “savior” by brokering a deal to plead his client guilty to a crime that “has him back on the streets within this decade.”

 

But it is not the role of a defense lawyer to save the world or the country. His job — his only job — is to get the best result for his client, by all legal and ethical means.

 

Listen to the way a famous British barrister put it in 1820:

 

“An advocate, by the sacred duty which he owes his client, knows, in the discharge of that office, but one person in the world, that client and none other . . . Nay, separating even the duties of a patriot from those of an advocate, and casting them, if need be, to the wind, he must go on reckless of the consequences, if his fate it should unhappily be, to involve his country in confusion for his client’s protection.”

 

The prosecutor’s job is far broader: to do justice to the defendant as well as the alleged victim. As the Supreme Court has said: “The government wins . . . when justice is done.”

 

Zimmerman’s lawyer is doing his job. It’s about time for the prosecutor to start doing hers.

 

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/drop-george-zimmerman-murder-charge-article-1.1080161#commentpostform

[JTB 52]

I agree - ballistics will be key.

 

 

Who gives a sh!t if there was pot in Martin's system? It's not relevant nor would it be admissible.

 

I am much more interested in the voice screaming for help. Interesting that the FBI couldn't say who it was. State investigators can get their own experts, but that nugget could hurt them for sure.

 

 

Wait a freaking minute.

You stated balistics would be key....that didn't pan out so NOW it's the voice screaming that will be key.

 

So the balistics are no longer key?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Wait a freaking minute.

You stated balistics would be key....that didn't pan out so NOW it's the voice screaming that will be key.

 

So the balistics are no longer key?

If the screaming on the tape turns out to be Zimmerman that will immediately become irrelevant, if not inadmissable, to Worms. Dude is all over the place on this.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

Wait a freaking minute.

You stated balistics would be key....that didn't pan out so NOW it's the voice screaming that will be key.

 

So the balistics are no longer key?

 

Wow, you're really obsessed with me, aren't you?

 

To answer your question, both will be key. I haven't backed off of ballistics--correct me if I'm wrong, but we haven't heard yet what the angle was and, most importantly, whether Zimmerman was on top of Martin or vice versa when the shot was fired.

 

As for the tape, the FBI report certainly helps Zimmerman since it would probably be given more credibility than these independent experts who have said the voice is not Zimmerman's. Now the question is whether the state can find another credible expert who can draw a conclusion from them. Perhaps the defense will find an expert of their own.

 

At any rate, the bet has been made with BLS and now it's time to sit back and see how it plays out. Feel free to go back through this thread and bring up every post I've made if I want, but I won't be responding until something new comes up.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Wow, you're really obsessed with me, aren't you?

 

To answer your question, both will be key. I haven't backed off of ballistics--correct me if I'm wrong, but we haven't heard yet what the angle was and, most importantly, whether Zimmerman was on top of Martin or vice versa when the shot was fired.

 

 

 

I thought you said Zimmerman was standing over Martin for a while before he shot him.

[BLS 313]

 

 

Two character witnesses who know Zimmerman weigh in that he is indeed racist.

 

 

 

 

OK. Let's say he is a racist. So what?

Literally and legally. What does that change?

[JTB 52]

Wow, you're really obsessed with me, aren't you?

 

To answer your question, both will be key. I haven't backed off of ballistics--correct me if I'm wrong, but we haven't heard yet what the angle was and, most importantly, whether Zimmerman was on top of Martin or vice versa when the shot was fired.

 

As for the tape, the FBI report certainly helps Zimmerman since it would probably be given more credibility than these independent experts who have said the voice is not Zimmerman's. Now the question is whether the state can find another credible expert who can draw a conclusion from them. Perhaps the defense will find an expert of their own.

 

At any rate, the bet has been made with BLS and now it's time to sit back and see how it plays out. Feel free to go back through this thread and bring up every post I've made if I want, but I won't be responding until something new comes up.

 

No, I could give 2 shitz about you worms. I am simply making a point that you jumped to a conclusion too quickly. Instead of admitting you should have waiting to make a "conviction call". You keep trying to worm your way around.

[drobeski 3,061]

Wow, you're really obsessed with me, aren't you?

 

To answer your question, both will be key. I haven't backed off of ballistics--correct me if I'm wrong, but we haven't heard yet what the angle was and, most importantly, whether Zimmerman was on top of Martin or vice versa when the shot was fired.

 

As for the tape, the FBI report certainly helps Zimmerman since it would probably be given more credibility than these independent experts who have said the voice is not Zimmerman's. Now the question is whether the state can find another credible expert who can draw a conclusion from them. Perhaps the defense will find an expert of their own.

 

At any rate, the bet has been made with BLS and now it's time to sit back and see how it plays out. Feel free to go back through this thread and bring up every post I've made if I want, but I won't be responding until something new comes up.

Did they just teach you that facts matter in last nights class ?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

 

Witness Told Cops He Saw Trayvon Martin Straddling George Zimmerman And Punching Him "MMA Style"

 

 

A witness told Florida cops that he saw Trayvon Martin straddling George Zimmerman and pummeling the neighborhood watch captain “MMA style” shortly before the unarmed teen was felled by a gunshot to the chest.

 

The witness’s account was included in Sanford Police Department reports released today.

 

Interviewed by cops about 90 minutes after the shooting, the witness--whose name was redacted from police documents--said that he was inside his home when he heard a “commotion coming from the walk way” behind his residence.

 

The man recalled seeing “a black male, wearing a dark colored ‘hoodie’ on top of a white or Hispanic male who was yelling for help.” The black male, he added, “was mounted on the white or Hispanic male and throwing punches ‘MMA (mixed martial arts) style.'”

 

The witness--who was in his living room and about 30 feet away from the confrontation-- said he called out to the two men that he was dialing 911. “He then heard a ‘pop,’” police reported, and saw the black male “laid out on the grass.”

 

Zimmerman is pictured above in photos taken by police shortly after the February 26 shooting.

 

The police reports also include observations from two Sanford cops regarding Zimmerman’s physical appearance following the shooting. Officer Timothy Smith reported that Zimmerman was “bleeding from the nose and back of his head,” while Officer Jonathan Mead noted that he “appeared to have a broken and bloody nose and swelling of his face.”

 

Investigators also reported receiving medical reports from Altamonte Medical Practice “identifying the injuries sustained by Zimmerman on the evening of 2/26/2012.” The records indicated that he suffered an “open wound of scalp” and “Nasal bones, closed fracture.”

 

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/trayvon-martin/martin-zimmerman-witness-758903

[kutulu 1,548]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/trayvon-martin/martin-zimmerman-witness-758903

 

Ground and Pound and Round?

[Strike 3,979]

No, I could give 2 shitz about you worms. I am simply making a point that you jumped to a conclusion too quickly. Instead of admitting you should have waiting to make a "conviction call". You keep trying to worm your way around.

 

Don't mind Worms. His MO the last few days has been that anyone who replies to him and challenges his idiocy is somehow obsessed with him. You're about the 5th person I've seen him say that to. It's kind of funny actually. And sad.

[windycityguy 1]

You can if you have a normal sense of smell. Pot reeks.

 

 

If you run into him shortly after he smoked maybe. He is 17, the cheap crap he would be smoking wouldn't smell on him shortly after. And how close was Zimmeramn to him to tell he smelled? If he was then seems like he was the issue.

[Voltaire 4,562]

Well, this is an unexpected, fun, new, and exciting twist: four witnesses are changing their testimony. Who knows if their memory is improving or getting worse?

 

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/trayvon-martin-shooting-witnesses-change-stories-ahead-zimmerman-133743219.html;_ylt=Al6hUClJWwXIFqpodFtarWaZCMZ_;_ylu=X3oDMTRtcmpjNGhhBG1pdANGZWF0dXJlZCBCbG9nIFRoZSBVcHNob3QgTmV0d29yawRwa2cDNTRjYjkyZjEtNTJkYy0zNDkzLWJlYTEtMGFkMTlmOGEwN2QwBHBvcwM0BHNlYwNNZWRpYUZlYXR1cmVkTGlzdFRlbXAEdmVyA2U0MTNlN2U0LWE0ZjgtMTFlMS1iZDFmLTI3MGFkMzU1MjkyMg--;_ylg=X3oDMTNncm9sZzNpBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDN2JlYWYyNjYtNWY5OC0zODA1LWI4OTMtZTEyOWI1MjZiMGIxBHBzdGNhdANCbG9nc3xCbG9ncyUyRlRoZSUyNTIwTG9va291dARwdANzdG9yeXBhZ2U-;_ylv=3

[Gepetto 988]

Well, this is an unexpected, fun, new, and exciting twist: four witnesses are changing their testimony. Who knows if their memory is improving or getting worse?

 

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/trayvon-martin-shooting-witnesses-change-stories-ahead-zimmerman-133743219.html;_ylt=Al6hUClJWwXIFqpodFtarWaZCMZ_;_ylu=X3oDMTRtcmpjNGhhBG1pdANGZWF0dXJlZCBCbG9nIFRoZSBVcHNob3QgTmV0d29yawRwa2cDNTRjYjkyZjEtNTJkYy0zNDkzLWJlYTEtMGFkMTlmOGEwN2QwBHBvcwM0BHNlYwNNZWRpYUZlYXR1cmVkTGlzdFRlbXAEdmVyA2U0MTNlN2U0LWE0ZjgtMTFlMS1iZDFmLTI3MGFkMzU1MjkyMg--;_ylg=X3oDMTNncm9sZzNpBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDN2JlYWYyNjYtNWY5OC0zODA1LWI4OTMtZTEyOWI1MjZiMGIxBHBzdGNhdANCbG9nc3xCbG9ncyUyRlRoZSUyNTIwTG9va291dARwdANzdG9yeXBhZ2U-;_ylv=3

 

Or the black community told them reverse your story or your dead.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Memories always improve over time, especially when so much racial/political stuff has been thrown into the mix in the interim. The things you see are always wrong right after you see them. One needs to sit back for a few months to figure out what you actually saw.

[Gepetto 988]

Memories always improve over time, especially when so much racial/political stuff has been thrown into the mix in the interim. The things you see are always wrong right after you see them. One needs to sit back for a few months to figure out what you actually saw.

 

your completely wrong here

[Recliner Pilot 61]

your completely wrong here

That's not how I remember it. I'll get back to you in 90 days.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

 

\

This guy killed him in cold blood. He was probably standing/leaning over the kid for a while and made the conscious decision to shoot him.

 

How is this working out for ya, "Counselor"?

 

[IGotWorms 3,315]

How is this working out for ya, "Counselor"?

 

 

Has it been disproved?

 

You seem to think the case is over but you're quite wrong there.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Has it been disproved?

 

You seem to think the case is over but you're quite wrong there.

Not yet.

 

But I chuckle at you for saying in another thread you can't say someone has done something unless they have been convicted in court.

 

Your hypocrisy is on full display today. :clap:

[IGotWorms 3,315]

Not yet.

 

But I chuckle at you for saying in another thread you can't say someone has done something unless they have been convicted in court.

 

Your hypocrisy is on full display today. :clap:

 

That's a creative remembering of the facts, but it was actually you who was playing the hypocrite:

 

Also how do you know she committed perjury? She certainly hasn'g been convicted of that. Are you prejudging her before any conviction (or even charges), like you kept screaming anc crying that I was doing to poor little George Zimmerman?

 

And I'm gonna go ahead and blow up the clever little trap you think you've laid: yes I prejudged Zimmerman for committing murder. And I stand by that. But you've prejudged the girlfriend, as we all prejudge people from time to time when we aren't operating within a court of law.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

I would post a

 

But at this point all I can muster for ya is a whole lotta :( :(

[Recliner Pilot 61]

I think Zimmeran is guilty of murder, or manslaughter at the very least.

 

I hope he is prosecuted, convicted, and spends the rest of his days as some gang's prison b!tch.

 

 

In one of the neighbor's calls to 911, you can hear the kid screaming for help in the background for a while, and then a gunshot.

 

This guy killed him in cold blood. He was probably standing/leaning over the kid for a while and made the conscious decision to shoot him. I think he should be facing murder charges.

[JTB 52]

/THREAD

[The Moz 69]

 

 

White Guilt clouds a mans mind

[drobeski 3,061]

I big hooray for our justice system and s big fock you to the race baiters right up to the potus.

[RLLD 3,455]

I big hooray for our justice system and s big fock you to the race baiters right up to the potus.

 

[Mike Honcho 4,039]

 

 

 

You seriously came online, dug through this thread to find those quotes from worms and bumped it(according to the timestamp on a Saturday night), minutes after the verdict. Wow, that's pathetic.

[Sho Nuff 719]

 

You seriously came online, dug through this thread to find those quotes from worms and bumped it(according to the timestamp on a Saturday night), minutes after the verdict. Wow, that's pathetic.

 

The guy probably sets reminders on his cell phone to come post stuff to people...this board is his life.

Did the same thing after each Heat loss in the finals...because he is obsessed with people here...it may be the only human interaction he has.

And the funny thing is...he calls everyone else losers.

Cue his usual comments...or a Hawker pop in or drobeski with some stupid yip or crying comment. Yet, they don't see the irony in all of that (given that all they do is yip and cry and whine)

[drobeski 3,061]

 

 

 

[Recliner Pilot 61]

 

The guy probably sets reminders on his cell phone to come post stuff to people...this board is his life.

Did the same thing after each Heat loss in the finals...because he is obsessed with people here...

Irony meter just sploded.

[Sho Nuff 719]

prettty much was spot on with my prediction yet again...damn Im good.

[drobeski 3,061]

[parrot 789]

In one of the neighbor's calls to 911, you can hear the kid screaming for help in the background for a while, and then a gunshot.

 

This guy killed him in cold blood. He was probably standing/leaning over the kid for a while and made the conscious decision to shoot him. I think he should be facing murder charges.

 

Bump.

[parrot 789]

From what little I've read it didn't sound like self-defense, it sounds like an overzealous self appointed watchdog who initiated a confrontation and shot an unarmed minor dead.

 

Bump.

[RLLD 3,455]

parrot, what are you doing man,.....

[MDC 5,893]

 

Bump.

Still seems that way to me, thanks.

[parrot 789]

parrot, what are you doing man,.....

 

Well see, already this morning I've been accused by Worms of seeing what I want to see to fit my own personal narrative of the case (there are not enough on the internets to fully convey my feeling of on that front) and laughed at by MDC for quoting the police transcript, one of the few incontrovertible pieces of evidence available in this case. So I figured it was worth pointing out how early in the case, and on what flimsy information, these two had made up their minds about what occurred. Of course they have slowly been forced to change their opinions, until the character assault on Zimmerman is all they have left to work with.

[edjr 5,567]

Why do Dems wanted Guilty and Reps wanted innocent?

 

You people are focking monkees.

[MDC 5,893]

 

Well see, already this morning I've been accused by Worms of seeing what I want to see to fit my own personal narrative of the case (there are not enough on the internets to fully convey my feeling of on that front) and laughed at by MDC for quoting the police transcript, one of the few incontrovertible pieces of evidence available in this case. So I figured it was worth pointing out how early in the case, and on what flimsy information, these two had made up their minds about what occurred. Of course they have slowly been forced to change their opinions, until the character assault on Zimmerman is all they have left to work with.