Self Defense Killing in Florida...Geeks got an opinion?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

I dunno, trace amounts of THC doesn't really amount to being "on drugs", does it? Seems like a huge stretch to me.

Could also mean Zimmerman is very good at picking out minute details.

 

Since everything Zimmerman has claimed so far has been supported by the actual evidence it seems to me he is on to something.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

I guess you missed this:

 

Funny how you left out the VERY NEXT LINE in the story:

 

But Tracy Martin, Trayvon's father, claims that is not true. The Martin family lawyer Ben Crump told ABC News that Tracy Martin initially listened to a distorted version of the 911 calls and said he could not identify the voice. But when he listened to a second tape that had been "cleaned," "He immediately broke down in tears because he knew it was his son calling for help," Crump said.

 

 

Fockin' d0uchebag liar. I don't know why anyone would ever believe anything you say.

[Vikings4ever 496]

I dunno, trace amounts of THC doesn't really amount to being "on drugs", does it? Seems like a huge stretch to me.

According to the story posted, the levels in his blood were enough that, in some states, he'd be considered driving impaired (had he been driving, of course).

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Funny how you left out the VERY NEXT LINE in the story:

 

 

 

 

Fockin' d0uchebag liar. I don't know why anyone would ever believe anything you say.

So, his dad said it wasn't him when he first listened to it.......but after being coached by the "family attorney" his story changed.

 

 

Hmmmmmmm.........

[IGotWorms 3,315]

According to the story posted, the levels in his blood were enough that, in some states, he'd be considered driving impaired (had he been driving, of course).

 

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/17/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

Dr. Michael Policastro, a toxicologist, cautioned against reading too much into the blood THC levels, adding that one cannot make a direct correlation between those findings and a level of intoxication.

 

He also noted levels of THC, which can linger in a person's system for days, can spike after death in certain areas of the body because of redistribution.

 

And Dr. Drew Pinsky, an addiction specialist who hosts a show on CNN's sister network HLN, added that marijuana typically does not make users more aggressive.

 

It seems to me like a red herring. What does pot have to do with anything?

[IGotWorms 3,315]

So, his dad said it wasn't him when he first listened to it.......but after being coached by the "family attorney" his story changed.

 

 

Hmmmmmmm.........

 

Why did you omit that part of the story? Because you were trying to MISLEAD everyone. Fockin liar.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/17/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

 

 

It seems to me like a red herring. What does pot have to do with anything?

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It is fukking hilarious watching your first day "he's guilty of murder and should be in jail forever" sink to "But his drug level shouldn't have anything to do with this".

 

:lol: :lol:

 

It's really fun watching you flounder around.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Why did you omit that part of the story? Because you were trying to MISLEAD everyone. Fockin liar.

Didn't think his dad being coached into changing his story was that important.............so I just linked to it.

 

:lol:

[IGotWorms 3,315]

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It is fukking hilarious watching your first day "he's guilty of murder and should be in jail forever" sink to "But his drug level shouldn't have anything to do with this".

 

:lol: :lol:

 

It's really fun watching you flounder around.

 

And it's fun watching you further cement your reputation as a bald-faced liar.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

And it's fun watching you further cement your reputation as a bald-faced liar.

Only one reputation being cemented here, Sport.

 

And it isn't mine.

[Vikings4ever 496]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/17/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

 

 

It seems to me like a red herring. What does pot have to do with anything?

It's not proof that Martin was stoned, but, again, it lends credence to Zimmerman's story that he saw someone possibly on drugs (rather than the knee jerk reaction that he started following Martin because he was black).

 

But something that does give me pause is the latest report on the medical findings:

 

According to the medical examiner's report, which was one of several documents on the case released Thursday by the office of special prosecutor Angela Corey, Martin died from a gunshot wounded to chest fired from "intermediate range" -- within 36 inches.

 

If accurate, 3 feet seems a long way for the shot to have come during the struggle.

[windycityguy 1]

It's not proof that Martin was stoned, but, again, it lends credence to Zimmerman's story that he saw someone possibly on drugs (rather than the knee jerk reaction that he started following Martin because he was black).

 

 

I would be willing to bet you normally can't tell some one has been smoking pot by watching there demeanor walking down the street.

[Strike 3,979]

I would be willing to bet you normally can't tell some one has been smoking pot by watching there demeanor walking down the street.

 

What if they're eating a 10 foot sub all by themself?

[Strike 3,979]

 

If accurate, 3 feet seems a long way for the shot to have come during the struggle.

 

Within 36 inches means 36 inches or less. Unless they can be more specific they might as well have said 3 inches as far as a defense is concerned.

[Vikings4ever 496]

Within 36 inches means 36 inches or less. Unless they can be more specific they might as well have said 3 inches as far as a defense is concerned.

Ah, I misread it. When I first read it, I thought it said 36 inches.

 

I hope they can narrow it down some more, but if they can't, it's room for reasonable doubt.

[windycityguy 1]

What if they're eating a 10 foot sub all by themself?

 

Only if it has potato chips or cereal on it.

[BLS 313]

Okay, well a grand is pretty crazy. Especially since there's no guarantee of payment. (Don't get me wrong, I think you are a trustworthy guy, but it is the internet and all.) Fifty bucks sounds reasonable.

 

But I want voluntary manslaughter to count too, and what happens if there is a plea or the charges are dropped or tossed out? If it doesn't go to a jury, the bet is off.

 

Deal?

 

 

No. $50 is nothing.

 

Don't want to do a grand? OK.

 

Bored Suicide.

 

Zimmerman walks scott free, so do you from here. Forever.

 

Zimmerman gets convicted of murder, I walk. Forever.

 

Zimmerman pleas to or is convicted of manslaughter, I take a 6 month break from the Geek Club.

Zimmerman pleas to or is convicted of anything less than manslaughter, you take a 6 month vacation from the Geek Club.

 

How you "liking your chances"?

[BLS 313]

Ah, I misread it. When I first read it, I thought it said 36 inches.

 

I hope they can narrow it down some more, but if they can't, it's room for reasonable doubt.

 

 

Martin had gun shot residue on his shirt. It was CLOSE range. Probably point blank.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

No. $50 is nothing.

 

Don't want to do a grand? OK.

 

Bored Suicide.

 

Zimmerman walks scott free, so do you from here. Forever.

 

Zimmerman gets convicted of murder, I walk. Forever.

 

Zimmerman pleas to or is convicted of manslaughter, I take a 6 month break from the Geek Club.

Zimmerman pleas to or is convicted of anything less than manslaughter, you take a 6 month vacation from the Geek Club.

 

How you "liking your chances"?

 

I can agree with those terms. One question though: what happens if the case is dismissed? In that case we've never had a determination by a jury or a plea to some specific degree of conduct.

[jerryskids 5,206]

Ah, I misread it. When I first read it, I thought it said 36 inches.

 

I hope they can narrow it down some more, but if they can't, it's room for reasonable doubt.

Any "inside of" range seems to only help Zimmerman. They need an "outside of" range to help convict him.

[jerryskids 5,206]

No. $50 is nothing.

 

Don't want to do a grand? OK.

 

Bored Suicide.

 

Zimmerman walks scott free, so do you from here. Forever.

 

Zimmerman gets convicted of murder, I walk. Forever.

 

Zimmerman pleas to or is convicted of manslaughter, I take a 6 month break from the Geek Club.

Zimmerman pleas to or is convicted of anything less than manslaughter, you take a 6 month vacation from the Geek Club.

 

How you "liking your chances"?

Please stop. You are both good posters who probably have too much integrity to welch on this, and I don't want to see either of you leave. :manhugs:

[BLS 313]

I can agree with those terms. One question though: what happens if the case is dismissed? In that case we've never had a determination by a jury or a plea to some specific degree of conduct.

 

 

Dismissed means 'not guilty'. Like I said.....he walks, you walk.

[BLS 313]

Please stop. You are both good posters who probably have too much integrity to welch on this, and I don't want to see either of you leave. :manhugs:

 

 

I'd feel good if I didn't know that you just want us to stay because this bored is like the US Economy. Slowly dying.

It's kinda self-serving.

 

I want worms to eat his words. He's wrong, and EVERYBODY knows it. (for a reminder...I initially said this guy (zimmerman) was wrong and likely should be prosecuted, but based on the FACTS I have changed my stance)

 

He won't back down even in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds.

 

Nice avatar chance BTW. Very "tasteful".

[IGotWorms 3,315]

Dismissed means 'not guilty'. Like I said.....he walks, you walk.

 

Yeah I can't do that--it stacks the deck far too heavily in your favor. If you want to call dismissed a wash then you've got yourself a deal.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

Please stop. You are both good posters who probably have too much integrity to welch on this, and I don't want to see either of you leave. :manhugs:

 

Thanks man.

 

I wouldn't really want to be the cause of BLS leaving (if I won the bet), but if that's what he wants to bet... I sure as sh!t ain't doing a thousand dollars for an internet bet.

[BLS 313]

Yeah I can't do that--it stacks the deck far too heavily in your favor. If you want to call dismissed a wash then you've got yourself a deal.

 

 

You said he'd be convicted, likely of murder. Not M1, but murder, nonetheless.

I said he won't be convicted of it, and am willing to bet he won't be convicted of anything.

 

Dismissed is 'not guilty'. Period.

 

Again.....it's not rocket science. It's late and I honestly don't see why you can't be pragmatic enough to realize that the deck is stacked against you.

Zimmerman, in the eyes of god, is probably innocent. Did he make a poor decision by following TM? Maybe. But it appears TM fukked up by confronting him and he ended up dead in the process.

I personally don't see an issue with it. He fukked with the wrong guy and paid for it.

 

The evidence all points to that conclusion. If you want to admit here and now that it's very likely that Zimmerman was justified in his actions, then let's DROP IT and we can all go about talking about vaginas and penises like the 40yo adolescents that we are.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

You said he'd be convicted, likely of murder. Not M1, but murder, nonetheless.

I said he won't be convicted of it, and am willing to bet he won't be convicted of anything.

 

Dismissed is 'not guilty'. Period.

 

Again.....it's not rocket science. It's late and I honestly don't see why you can't be pragmatic enough to realize that the deck is stacked against you.

Zimmerman, in the eyes of god, is probably innocent. Did he make a poor decision by following TM? Maybe. But it appears TM fukked up by confronting him and he ended up dead in the process.

I personally don't see an issue with it. He fukked with the wrong guy and paid for it.

 

The evidence all points to that conclusion. If you want to admit here and now that it's very likely that Zimmerman was justified in his actions, then let's DROP IT and we can all go about talking about vaginas and penises like the 40yo adolescents that we are.

 

I believe Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter in the very least and probably murder two. I believe that he will be found guilty as such if it goes to a jury.

 

I do not know enough about Florida's stand your ground law and so forth to decide whether a judge will prevent this from ever going to a jury.

 

So I can't take a bet that includes dismissal as "not guilty". It isn't a determination of "not guilty", for one thing, and for another I have no idea how this will play out in front of the JUDGE. What I have said is that IF it does go to a jury, Zimmerman will be found guilty.

[jerryskids 5,206]

I'd feel good if I didn't know that you just want us to stay because this bored is like the US Economy. Slowly dying.

It's kinda self-serving.

 

I want worms to eat his words. He's wrong, and EVERYBODY knows it. (for a reminder...I initially said this guy (zimmerman) was wrong and likely should be prosecuted, but based on the FACTS I have changed my stance)

 

He won't back down even in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds.

 

Nice avatar chance BTW. Very "tasteful".

I'm nothing if not selfish.

[BLS 313]

I believe Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter in the very least and probably murder two. I believe that he will be found guilty as such if it goes to a jury.

 

I do not know enough about Florida's stand your ground law and so forth to decide whether a judge will prevent this from ever going to a jury.

 

So I can't take a bet that includes dismissal as "not guilty". It isn't a determination of "not guilty", for one thing, and for another I have no idea how this will play out in front of the JUDGE. What I have said is that IF it does go to a jury, Zimmerman will be found guilty.

 

 

OK. You are a stubborn son-of-a-######.

 

If it goes to a jury trial and he's determined to be not-guilty, you pay me $100.

If he's determined to be guilty of Murder or manslaughter, I pay you $100.

A dismissal means you're retarded.

 

 

That's it. Bottom line. If you don't pay me, I will find you.

 

You willing to accept? Because I guarantee I'm good for it. Again, I'll have RedTodd vouch for me.

 

If you do NOT accept this bet, then shut up. I'm tired of you running off.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

OK. You are a stubborn son-of-a-######.

 

If it goes to a jury trial and he's determined to be not-guilty, you pay me $100.

If he's determined to be guilty of Murder or manslaughter, I pay you $100.

A dismissal means you're retarded.

 

 

That's it. Bottom line. If you don't pay me, I will find you.

 

You willing to accept? Because I guarantee I'm good for it. Again, I'll have RedTodd vouch for me.

 

If you do NOT accept this bet, then shut up. I'm tired of you running off.

 

I don't much care for your tone. But I accept your bet and I guaran-focking-tee you that I'm good for it too. I may be a lot of things but g0ddamit I am not a welcher.

 

So let's consider hands shaken on this thing.

[Strike 3,979]

Yeah I can't do that--it stacks the deck far too heavily in your favor. If you want to call dismissed a wash then you've got yourself a deal.

 

What a focking poosay. 6 hours ago you "liked your chances." That's why I proposed the damn bet to begin with. You don't know any more or any less now than you did then. Well, except for all the posts with evidence that point to Zimmerman walking. Talk about backtracking and looking for a way out of another idiotic statement or stance.

 

:lol:

[BLS 313]

I don't much care for your tone. But I accept your bet and I guaran-focking-tee you that I'm good for it too. I may be a lot of things but g0ddamit I am not a welcher.

 

So let's consider hands shaken on this thing.

 

 

Listen up, peniswrinkle, I don't care if you like my "tone" or not. IMO you're an assdart of the highest magnitude.

 

I had to bend over backwards to even get you to man the fukk up on this bet.

I'm so confident that he'll walk, I'm willing to do it.

 

It's on, like motherfucking donkey kong.

 

If I lose, I'll pay. I know you'll honor your end as well.

This should be interesting.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

What a focking poosay. 6 hours ago you "liked your chances." That's why I proposed the damn bet to begin with. You don't know any more or any less now than you did then. Well, except for all the posts with evidence that point to Zimmerman walking. Talk about backtracking and looking for a way out of another idiotic statement or stance.

 

:lol:

 

BLS had the sack to make a bet (and I believe he will pay up if he loses). You didn't, and frankly I wouldn't have trusted you anyway.

[Strike 3,979]

BLS had the sack to make a bet (and I believe he will pay up if he loses). You didn't, and frankly I wouldn't have trusted you anyway.

 

Yeah, I've proven I'm untrustworthy by the way I collected a bunch of people's money from here for a charitable cause and then returned it when the cause turned out to be fraudulent. Or by the way I've paid off my bets over the years in the NCAA hat pool. I'm just a regular Q-Lazz when it comes to being trustworthy. Don't worry. If we'd have bet we'd have used someone as an escrow holder because I sure as hell don't trust you paying up on your MCDonald's salary.

 

And the reason I didn't bet is that you didn't give me a decent reason to. You pretended you were confident that he was guilty but were unwilling to make it worth it for me to take you up on the bet, thus proving that you were full of sh*t as usual. And your bet with BLS further proves it. You put up a token amount to save face and say that's because you aren't aware of how things work in FL, yet you were had the same information available to you earlier when you spouting off about how confident you were that he'd be convicted. IOW, you're full of it.

[kutulu 1,548]

Evidence mixed for Zimmerman's self-defense claim

 

By KYLE HIGHTOWER, Associated Press – 17 minutes ago

 

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) —When George Zimmerman tries to convince a judge or jury that he shot Trayvon Martin in self-defense, the evidence he'll be able to call on appears to be a mixed bag.

 

More than 200 pages of photos and eyewitness accounts released by prosecutors Thursday show Zimmerman and Martin were in a loud and bloody fight in the moments leading up to the shooting and that Zimmerman appeared to be getting the worst of it, with wounds both to his face and the back of his head.

 

But the original lead detective in the case believed Zimmerman caused the fight by getting out of his vehicle to confront Martin, who wasn't doing anything criminal, and then could have defused the situation by telling Martin he was just a concerned citizen and tried to talk to him. He didn't think Zimmerman could legally invoke Florida's "stand your ground" law and should be charged with manslaughter.

 

Under that law, people are given wide latitude to use deadly force rather than retreat in a fight if they believe they are in danger of being killed or seriously injured, they weren't committing a crime themselves and are in a place they have the legal right to be. The original prosecutor in the case accepted Zimmerman's invocation of the law after the Feb. 26 shooting but a special prosecutor rejected his claim last month and charged Zimmerman with second-degree murder. The former neighborhood watch volunteer has pleaded not guilty, has been released on bail and reportedly is in hiding.

 

He and his attorney will have two more chances to invoke the law. First, they will try to convince a judge during what will be a mini-trial. If the judge agrees, the charges will be dropped although prosecutors could appeal. That is likely months away. If the judge rejects the claim, Zimmerman could they try to convince the jury and win an acquittal. A trial is unlikely to start before next year. Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O'Mara, didn't return a phone call seeking comment Thursday.

 

Joelle Moreno, a Florida International University law school professor, said the evidence now released makes it difficult to predict if that defense will work. She is a member of a state senator's task force examining the law.

 

Larry Kobilinsky, professor of forensic science at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York, said that after reviewing the evidence, he thinks Zimmerman is in a good position.

 

"I think the prosecution's case has been seriously diminished by all of this evidence," he said.

 

Still, many of the pertinent questions remain unclear: What was in Zimmerman's mind when he began to follow Martin in the gated community where he lived? How did the confrontation between the two begin? Whose screams for help were captured on 911 calls? And why did Zimmerman feel that deadly force was warranted? Did the fact that Martin was black play a role in Zimmerman's actions?

 

The evidence supporting Zimmerman's defense includes a photo showing the neighborhood watch volunteer with a bloody nose on the night of the fight. A paramedic report says Zimmerman had a 1-inch laceration on his head and forehead abrasion.

 

"Bleeding tenderness to his nose, and a small laceration to the back of his head. All injuries have minor bleeding," paramedic Michael Brandy wrote about Zimmerman's injuries in the report.

 

But other evidence supports the contention of Martin's parents that Zimmerman was the aggressor.

 

The investigator who called for Zimmerman's arrest, Christopher Serino, told prosecutors the fight could have been avoided if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement. He said Zimmerman, after leaving his vehicle, could have identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and talked to him instead of confronting him. The report was written March 13, nearly a month before Zimmerman's eventual arrest.

 

He said there is no evidence Martin was involved in any criminal activity as he walked from a convenience store to the home of his father's fiance in the same gated community where Zimmerman lived.

 

The lawyer for Martin's parents seized on the investigator's recommendation.

 

"The police concluded that none of this would have happened if George Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car," said attorney Ben Crump. "If George Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car, they say it was completely avoidable. That is the headline."

 

The release of evidence did little to clear up whose voice is screaming for help in the background of several 911 calls made during the fight.

 

Since first hearing the calls in early March, Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton, has been unequivocal in saying it was her son's voice on the tapes.

 

But Serino wrote in a report that he played a 911 call for Martin's father, Tracy, in which the screams are heard multiple times.

 

"I asked Mr. Martin if the voice calling for help was that of his son," the officer wrote. "Mr. Martin, clearly emotionally impacted by the recording, quietly responded 'no.'"

 

Zimmerman's father also told investigators that it was his son yelling for help on March 19.

 

"That is absolutely positively George Zimmerman," Robert Zimmerman said. "He was not just yelling, he sounded like he was screaming for his life."

 

Investigators sent all the recordings to the FBI for analysis. They were asked to determine who was screaming, and also if Zimmerman might have used an expletive in describing Martin. Prosecutors said in their charging documents that Zimmerman said "(expletive) punks" in describing Martin as he walked in the neighborhood.

 

But the analyst who examined the recordings determined the sound quality is too poor to decipher what Zimmerman uttered. In regards to the screams during the altercation, there also wasn't enough clarity to determine who it is "due to extreme stress and unsuitable audio quality."

 

The case has become a national racial flashpoint because the Martin family and supporters contend Zimmerman singled Martin out because he was black. Zimmerman has a Peruvian mother and a white father.

 

Two acquaintances painted an unflattering picture of Zimmerman in police interviews.

 

A distraught woman told an investigator that she stays away from Zimmerman because he's racist and because of things he's done to her in the past, but she didn't elaborate on what happened between them.

 

"I don't at all know who this kid was or anything else. But I know George, and I know that he does not like black people. He would start something. He's very confrontational. It's in his blood. We'll just say that," the unidentified woman says in an audio recording.

 

A man whose name was deleted from the audio told investigators said he worked with Zimmerman in 2008 for a few months. It wasn't clear which company it was.

 

The man, who described his heritage as "Middle Eastern," said that when he first started, many employees didn't like him. Zimmerman seized on this, the employee said, and bullied him.

 

Zimmerman wanted to "get in" with the clique at work so he exaggerated a Middle Eastern accent when talking about the employee, the man said. The employee told investigators that Zimmerman made reference to terrorists and bombings when talking about him.

 

"It was so immature," said the employee, who ended up writing a letter to management about Zimmerman.

 

Zimmerman's parents say he wasn't racist. They say he had mentored black students and had a black relative.

 

The autopsy says medical examiners found THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, when they tested Martin's blood and urine.

 

Kobilinsky said the amount was so low that it may have been ingested days earlier and played no role in Martin's behavior. He doubts the judge will even let it be used by the defense if they try to introduce it at trial.

 

A police report shows the 17-year-old had been shot once in the chest and had been pronounced dead at the scene. The autopsy says the fatal shot was fired from no more than 18 inches away.

 

In a police interview, Zimmerman's father, Robert, described the toll the case had taken on family members who also are in hiding because of safety concerns.

 

"It just seems like it's an avalanche and I'm standing at the bottom of it," Robert Zimmerman said.

 

Associated Press writers Tamara Lush and Mitch Stacy in Tampa, Fla., Matt Sedensky in West Palm Beach, Fla., Curt Anderson, Kelli Kennedy and Christine Armario in Miami contributed to this report.

 

 

~ By KYLE HIGHTOWER, Associated Press

[Phurfur 70]

You had Zimmerman convicted the minute you found out Martin was black.

 

But Worms went to law school on an academic scholarship he must know about being innocent until proven guilty.

[phillybear 364]

I would be willing to bet you normally can't tell some one has been smoking pot by watching there demeanor walking down the street.

 

You can if you have a normal sense of smell. Pot reeks.

[kutulu 1,548]

You can if you have a normal sense of smell. Pot reeks.

 

It takes little effort to not reek from pot. I might not know a lot, but I know this.

[Voltaire 4,562]

Evidence mixed for Zimmerman's self-defense claim

 

By KYLE HIGHTOWER, Associated Press – 17 minutes ago

 

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) —When George Zimmerman tries to convince a judge or jury that he shot Trayvon Martin in self-defense, the evidence he'll be able to call on appears to be a mixed bag.

 

More than 200 pages of photos and eyewitness accounts released by prosecutors Thursday show Zimmerman and Martin were in a loud and bloody fight in the moments leading up to the shooting and that Zimmerman appeared to be getting the worst of it, with wounds both to his face and the back of his head.

 

But the original lead detective in the case believed Zimmerman caused the fight by getting out of his vehicle to confront Martin, who wasn't doing anything criminal, and then could have defused the situation by telling Martin he was just a concerned citizen and tried to talk to him. He didn't think Zimmerman could legally invoke Florida's "stand your ground" law and should be charged with manslaughter.

 

Under that law, people are given wide latitude to use deadly force rather than retreat in a fight if they believe they are in danger of being killed or seriously injured, they weren't committing a crime themselves and are in a place they have the legal right to be. The original prosecutor in the case accepted Zimmerman's invocation of the law after the Feb. 26 shooting but a special prosecutor rejected his claim last month and charged Zimmerman with second-degree murder. The former neighborhood watch volunteer has pleaded not guilty, has been released on bail and reportedly is in hiding.

 

He and his attorney will have two more chances to invoke the law. First, they will try to convince a judge during what will be a mini-trial. If the judge agrees, the charges will be dropped although prosecutors could appeal. That is likely months away. If the judge rejects the claim, Zimmerman could they try to convince the jury and win an acquittal. A trial is unlikely to start before next year. Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O'Mara, didn't return a phone call seeking comment Thursday.

 

Joelle Moreno, a Florida International University law school professor, said the evidence now released makes it difficult to predict if that defense will work. She is a member of a state senator's task force examining the law.

 

Larry Kobilinsky, professor of forensic science at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York, said that after reviewing the evidence, he thinks Zimmerman is in a good position.

 

"I think the prosecution's case has been seriously diminished by all of this evidence," he said.

 

Still, many of the pertinent questions remain unclear: What was in Zimmerman's mind when he began to follow Martin in the gated community where he lived? How did the confrontation between the two begin? Whose screams for help were captured on 911 calls? And why did Zimmerman feel that deadly force was warranted? Did the fact that Martin was black play a role in Zimmerman's actions?

 

The evidence supporting Zimmerman's defense includes a photo showing the neighborhood watch volunteer with a bloody nose on the night of the fight. A paramedic report says Zimmerman had a 1-inch laceration on his head and forehead abrasion.

"Bleeding tenderness to his nose, and a small laceration to the back of his head. All injuries have minor bleeding," paramedic Michael Brandy wrote about Zimmerman's injuries in the report.

 

But other evidence supports the contention of Martin's parents that Zimmerman was the aggressor.

 

The investigator who called for Zimmerman's arrest, Christopher Serino, told prosecutors the fight could have been avoided if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement. He said Zimmerman, after leaving his vehicle, could have identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and talked to him instead of confronting him. The report was written March 13, nearly a month before Zimmerman's eventual arrest.

 

He said there is no evidence Martin was involved in any criminal activity as he walked from a convenience store to the home of his father's fiance in the same gated community where Zimmerman lived.

 

The lawyer for Martin's parents seized on the investigator's recommendation.

 

"The police concluded that none of this would have happened if George Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car," said attorney Ben Crump. "If George Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car, they say it was completely avoidable. That is the headline."

 

The release of evidence did little to clear up whose voice is screaming for help in the background of several 911 calls made during the fight.

 

Since first hearing the calls in early March, Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton, has been unequivocal in saying it was her son's voice on the tapes.

 

But Serino wrote in a report that he played a 911 call for Martin's father, Tracy, in which the screams are heard multiple times.

 

"I asked Mr. Martin if the voice calling for help was that of his son," the officer wrote. "Mr. Martin, clearly emotionally impacted by the recording, quietly responded 'no.'"

 

Zimmerman's father also told investigators that it was his son yelling for help on March 19.

 

"That is absolutely positively George Zimmerman," Robert Zimmerman said. "He was not just yelling, he sounded like he was screaming for his life."

 

Investigators sent all the recordings to the FBI for analysis. They were asked to determine who was screaming, and also if Zimmerman might have used an expletive in describing Martin. Prosecutors said in their charging documents that Zimmerman said "(expletive) punks" in describing Martin as he walked in the neighborhood.

 

But the analyst who examined the recordings determined the sound quality is too poor to decipher what Zimmerman uttered. In regards to the screams during the altercation, there also wasn't enough clarity to determine who it is "due to extreme stress and unsuitable audio quality."

 

The case has become a national racial flashpoint because the Martin family and supporters contend Zimmerman singled Martin out because he was black. Zimmerman has a Peruvian mother and a white father.

 

Two acquaintances painted an unflattering picture of Zimmerman in police interviews.

 

A distraught woman told an investigator that she stays away from Zimmerman because he's racist and because of things he's done to her in the past, but she didn't elaborate on what happened between them.

 

"I don't at all know who this kid was or anything else. But I know George, and I know that he does not like black people. He would start something. He's very confrontational. It's in his blood. We'll just say that," the unidentified woman says in an audio recording.

 

A man whose name was deleted from the audio told investigators said he worked with Zimmerman in 2008 for a few months. It wasn't clear which company it was.

 

The man, who described his heritage as "Middle Eastern," said that when he first started, many employees didn't like him. Zimmerman seized on this, the employee said, and bullied him.

 

Zimmerman wanted to "get in" with the clique at work so he exaggerated a Middle Eastern accent when talking about the employee, the man said. The employee told investigators that Zimmerman made reference to terrorists and bombings when talking about him.

 

"It was so immature," said the employee, who ended up writing a letter to management about Zimmerman.

 

Zimmerman's parents say he wasn't racist. They say he had mentored black students and had a black relative.

 

The autopsy says medical examiners found THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, when they tested Martin's blood and urine.

 

Kobilinsky said the amount was so low that it may have been ingested days earlier and played no role in Martin's behavior. He doubts the judge will even let it be used by the defense if they try to introduce it at trial.

 

A police report shows the 17-year-old had been shot once in the chest and had been pronounced dead at the scene. The autopsy says the fatal shot was fired from no more than 18 inches away.

 

In a police interview, Zimmerman's father, Robert, described the toll the case had taken on family members who also are in hiding because of safety concerns.

 

"It just seems like it's an avalanche and I'm standing at the bottom of it," Robert Zimmerman said.

 

Associated Press writers Tamara Lush and Mitch Stacy in Tampa, Fla., Matt Sedensky in West Palm Beach, Fla., Curt Anderson, Kelli Kennedy and Christine Armario in Miami contributed to this report.

 

 

~ By KYLE HIGHTOWER, Associated Press

So, now a third expert sound witness testifies that the screaming in the audio is inconclusive. That was the initial report, challenged by two other experts, now a (4th?) expert claims inconclusive.

 

Also, Zimmerman's father claims the screaming voice on the 911 tape is his son which is in full contrast to Martin's mother who says it's her son. Martin's father equivocated at first, now says it's Trayvon.

 

The gunshot distance has been reduced to 18 inches or less.

 

The traces of marijuana in Martin's blood are so low that they may be deemed inconsequential.

 

Two character witnesses who know Zimmerman weigh in that he is indeed racist.

 

Seems like a mixed bag.

[kutulu 1,548]

 

Seems like a mixed bag.

 

That's what I was thinking when I posted it.