Flu vaccines

[IGotWorms 4,063]

It's that time of year again Geeks.

 

Every fall I go back and forth on whether to get a vaccine. Some years I figure better safe than sorry and I get it. Other years I start thinking well, she!t, I'm only in my 30s and not particularly susceptible to illness, and who knows, maybe they can have some side effects or whatnot, so I don't get it.

 

Leaning towards not getting it this year.

 

So whatdya say Geeks? Do you get vaccinated? Why or why not?

 

Also, how do they know what particular strain of flu they need to vaccinate against before it even starts popping up? :lil'rusty tinfoilhat:

[posty 2,809]

Yep... My office has a day every year that they have a company come in and give free flu shots...

[RLLD 4,275]

Never done it, maybe some other time....

[cyclone24 1,935]

Nope...unless you are a small baby or elderly its pointless to get one.

 

 

 

One shot CANT prevent every strain of flu.

[IGotWorms 4,063]

Nope...unless you are a small baby or elderly its pointless to get one.

 

 

 

One shot CANT prevent every strain of flu.

 

I know one shot can't prevent every strain, but don't they somehow predict what the prevalent strain will be this year and that's what you get vaccinated against?

[RLLD 4,275]

I know one shot can't prevent every strain, but don't they somehow predict what the prevalent strain will be this year and that's what you get vaccinated against?

 

Essentially yes.

[cyclone24 1,935]

I know one shot can't prevent every strain, but don't they somehow predict what the prevalent strain will be this year and that's what you get vaccinated against?

 

 

Primary ones yes.....but not all. It varies too much year after year.

 

The bigger point is that if you are not "at risk" health wise.....you probably are ok

[MTSkiBum 1,626]

I support vaccines, and if i were around young kids or at risk elderly i would get the shot.

 

 

 

But I am not going to get the flu vaccine.

[MedStudent 56]

If you get hit with the flu then you are likely going to be laid up in bed for a week and you will feel miserable. Definitiely not the end of the world. A flu shot may not prevent the flu in all cases but its very likly to at least lessen the severity of it. They are readily available and it takes a few bucks and about 10 minutes to get one.

 

An ounce of prevention.....

 

I am not real pro or anti flu vaccine. I usually get them now and I have never gotten the flu when I have gotten a shot. I have gotten the flu before and it sux.

 

You would be wise to get it if you are exposed to a lot of people during the day. A school teacher, a bus driver, etc.,

[KSB2424 3,173]

If you are around kids or old people then you should get the flu vaccine. If you are a health care professional, teacher, etc then for sure because your risk is high.

 

Pretty much the only people that 'shouldn't' (even though it wouldn't hurt to do so) are adults 18-50 that don't have small kids, take care of their parents, and/or aren't around a bunch of people normally.

 

[Phurfur 70]

You are better off letting your body build up its own immunities.

[IGotWorms 4,063]

If you get hit with the flu then you are likely going to be laid up in bed for a week and you will feel miserable. Definitiely not the end of the world. A flu shot may not prevent the flu in all cases but its very likly to at least lessen the severity of it. They are readily available and it takes a few bucks and about 10 minutes to get one.

 

An ounce of prevention.....

 

I am not real pro or anti flu vaccine. I usually get them now and I have never gotten the flu when I have gotten a shot. I have gotten the flu before and it sux.

 

You would be wise to get it if you are exposed to a lot of people during the day. A school teacher, a bus driver, etc.,

 

So there's absolutely no downside to getting the c

vaccine? No chance of a severe allergic reaction, nothing to be said for building up your own immune system (fock I hate thinking that Phurfur has a point)?

[The Next Generation 11]

So there's absolutely no downside to getting the c

vaccine? No chance of a severe allergic reaction, nothing to be said for building up your own immune system (fock I hate thinking that Phurfur has a point)?

 

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/keyfacts.htm

[cyclone24 1,935]

You are better off letting your body build up its own immunities.

 

 

This

 

Really want to help yourself not get sick? Get off your arse and go jog a couple miles a day.

[MedStudent 56]

So there's absolutely no downside to getting the c

vaccine? No chance of a severe allergic reaction, nothing to be said for building up your own immune system (fock I hate thinking that Phurfur has a point)?

 

The vaccine is a weakened form of the flu virus. So, by getting the vaccine, your body creates antibodies that will kill virus without having to go through hell. It takes about 2 weeks after the vaccine for your body to have built up the antibodies. When you get sick from the flu, your body starts to work on creating antibodies to kill the virus. It takes about a week or so to create it. That week is hell. So, you build the same antibodies with the vaccine that you would by getting the flu. Sometimes the vaccine is not a perfect match so they are not always perfect.

 

But there is certainly some truth in letting your body build up imunities. I'm not against flu shots because the flu changes every year and building up an immunity one year usually does you no good the next year and unless you are a social hermit, you will have plenty of chances to catch it. At the movies, grocery store, sports event, etc., But I do think that antibiotics are over prescribed. If you have a cold let your body fight it off. As far as colds go, diet, exercise, and sleep are the key. Stress will lower immunities.

[penultimatestraw 473]

So there's absolutely no downside to getting the c

vaccine? No chance of a severe allergic reaction, nothing to be said for building up your own immune system (fock I hate thinking that Phurfur has a point)?

The risk of serious complications from vaccination is far less than having a serious complication from the flu, including death. This was true even with the infamous swine flu vaccine that was loosely linked to Guillain Barre syndrome - a potentially serious nerve disorder. Mind you, the link wasn't definitive. Serious allergic reactions are very rare, too, unless you have an egg allergy.

 

The vaccine exposes you to flu antigens and allows your body to develop immunity - more or less the same way it would do so naturally, minus the risk of true infection as the shots contain killed virus. The inhaled vaccine has live attenuated (weakend) virus, which is more effective in some groups, but should not be given to those with impaired immune systems.

 

From a practical standpoint, the downside is a guaranteed sore arm versus the potential for getting the flu - the likelihood of the latter depends on the strain, exposures and the health of the individual.

[penultimatestraw 473]

You are better off letting your body build up its own immunities.

Link?

[penultimatestraw 473]

If you are around kids or old people then you should get the flu vaccine. If you are a health care professional, teacher, etc then for sure because your risk is high.

 

Pretty much the only people that 'shouldn't' (even though it wouldn't hurt to do so) are adults 18-50 that don't have small kids, take care of their parents, and/or aren't around a bunch of people normally.

 

Not accurate. The CDC is recommending everyone >6 mos get vaccinated:My link

Who Should Get Vaccinated?

 

Everyone who is at least 6 months of age should get a flu vaccine this season. The recommendation is intended to remove barriers to flu immunization, such as the need to determine whether each person has a specific indication for vaccination, and protect as many people as possible against the dangers of flu. The decision is supported by evidence that influenza vaccination is a safe preventive health measure with potential benefit across all age groups.

[penultimatestraw 473]

If you get hit with the flu then you are likely going to be laid up in bed for a week and you will feel miserable. Definitiely not the end of the world. A flu shot may not prevent the flu in all cases but its very likly to at least lessen the severity of it. They are readily available and it takes a few bucks and about 10 minutes to get one.

 

An ounce of prevention.....

 

I am not real pro or anti flu vaccine. I usually get them now and I have never gotten the flu when I have gotten a shot. I have gotten the flu before and it sux.

 

You would be wise to get it if you are exposed to a lot of people during the day. A school teacher, a bus driver, etc.,

As a healthcare provider, you are a higher risk group than the average bear. Having worked through mono during my internship, let me assure you don't want to make it any harder than it already is. If you don't get it for your own wellbeing get it for the ill and immunocompromised patients with whom you will have contact.

 

And the shot doesn't give you the flu, but you already knew that.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I know one shot can't prevent every strain, but don't they somehow predict what the prevalent strain will be this year and that's what you get vaccinated against?

The prevalent strain is determined by a panel of experts from around the world who help develop the vaccine. In crude terms, the predominant strain for a given year often starts to emerge at the tail end of the previous flu season. The vaccines are trivalent, meaning they contain antigens (the parts that your immune system recognizes) from the three most likely strains.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Nope...unless you are a small baby or elderly its pointless to get one.

 

 

 

One shot CANT prevent every strain of flu.

Also inaccurate - almost everyone can benefit (though the vaccine has NOT been approved for use in young (< 6 mos) babies). And nothing you do for your health is 100% effective - its all about minimizing the risk of disease.

[penultimatestraw 473]

The vaccine is a weakened form of the flu virus. So, by getting the vaccine, your body creates antibodies that will kill virus without having to go through hell. It takes about 2 weeks after the vaccine for your body to have built up the antibodies. When you get sick from the flu, your body starts to work on creating antibodies to kill the virus. It takes about a week or so to create it. That week is hell. So, you build the same antibodies with the vaccine that you would by getting the flu. Sometimes the vaccine is not a perfect match so they are not always perfect.

 

But there is certainly some truth in letting your body build up imunities. I'm not against flu shots because the flu changes every year and building up an immunity one year usually does you no good the next year and unless you are a social hermit, you will have plenty of chances to catch it. At the movies, grocery store, sports event, etc., But I do think that antibiotics are over prescribed. If you have a cold let your body fight it off. As far as colds go, diet, exercise, and sleep are the key. Stress will lower immunities.

Holy crap Med. I hope you are not trying to equate antibiotic abuse to vaccination. Aside from being one of the greatest medical advances ever (in terms of lives saved - when was the last time you worried about smallpox?), one can easily argue that vaccination reduces unnecessary antibiotic use. On the flip-side, the nutheads who base decisions on fake research (autism BS) have contributed greatly to revival of disease like measles and mumps which were almost eradicated in the US.

[IGotWorms 4,063]

Hey, quit coming in here with your facts and knowledge doctor

[penultimatestraw 473]

Hey, quit coming in here with your facts and knowledge doctor

It is amazing to me how much distrust of vaccines exists…and I need to make sure you guys aren't taking medical advice from a surgical intern

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Holy crap Med. I hope you are not trying to equate antibiotic abuse to vaccination. Aside from being one of the greatest medical advances ever (in terms of lives saved - when was the last time you worried about smallpox?), one can easily argue that vaccination reduces unnecessary antibiotic use. On the flip-side, the nutheads who base decisions on fake research (autism BS) have contributed greatly to revival of disease like measles and mumps which were almost eradicated in the US.

Hey, he just got out of med school so he knows it all. Your years of experience in the real world mean nothing to him at this point in his illustrious "career".

[penultimatestraw 473]

Hey, he just got out of med school so he knows it all. Your years of experience in the real world mean nothing to him at this point in his illustrious "career".

Confidence and decisiveness are important characteristics of a good surgeon. Knowledge of vaccine immunology is not.

[MedStudent 56]

Holy crap Med. I hope you are not trying to equate antibiotic abuse to vaccination. Aside from being one of the greatest medical advances ever (in terms of lives saved - when was the last time you worried about smallpox?), one can easily argue that vaccination reduces unnecessary antibiotic use. On the flip-side, the nutheads who base decisions on fake research (autism BS) have contributed greatly to revival of disease like measles and mumps which were almost eradicated in the US.

 

No, I am not equating vaccines with antibiotics. What I was saying is that phurfur was not totally off base when he said the body is better to build up immunity's on it's own. I think you are better off not taking antibiotics so much. I made the distinction that building up immunity to a flu is pretty useless as the strain will change in a year.

 

I definitely do not think vaccines have anything to do with autism. As a matter of fact when I see Jenny McCarthy rail against vaccines, it makes my blood boil. I just don't have a strong enough opinion on flu vaccines to urge young adults to get them.

[penultimatestraw 473]

No, I am not equating vaccines with antibiotics. What I was saying is that phurfur was not totally off base when he said the body is better to build up immunity's on it's own. I think you are better off not taking antibiotics so much. I made the distinction that building up immunity to a flu is pretty useless as the strain will change in a year.

 

I definitely do not think vaccines have anything to do with autism. As a matter of fact when I see Jenny McCarthy rail against vaccines, it makes my blood boil. I just don't have a strong enough opinion on flu vaccines to urge young adults to get them.

Yes, but one doesn't use antibiotics to treat colds or the flu - unless you are counting neuramidase inhibitors as antibiotics. Building up one's immunity to viral illness will have little impact in tolerating subsequent bacterial infection. And Phurfur was arguing about building immunity in the context of not taking the flu vaccine. Listen, I get your point, but lay people could easily misconstrue it.

 

As an aside, there is evidence that remote immunity to the last swine flu attenuated the course of novel H1N1 (more recent swine flu) in the elderly. Although immunity to vaccination wanes and strains change, there may be some benefit beyond the immediate flu season.

 

If you don't know the data or recommendations about flu, I suggest you learn it before giving advice. Like it or not, people will start to value your opinion a little more now that you have your MD.

[frank 2,345]

This should help.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

 

 

If you don't know the data or recommendations about flu, I suggest you learn it before giving advice.

Hey, the kid was "confident and decisive".

[Gepetto 1,454]

penultimate posted some very accurate information. Med, not so much.

[penultimatestraw 473]

penultimate posted some very accurate information. Med, not so much.

Thank you

[nikki2200 4]

If you are that scared of the flu you are a focking pvssy. If you are a normal healthy adult male, the chances of you dying from the flu are minimal. Why would you intentionally have someone inject something into you that is bad and not good for you so you don't get the flu? It's weird to me. If I get the flu..... what the fock ever... but to have someone inject something into you to try to prevent it when gods know what is in that bullshiit is just weird to me.

 

On a side note... this may seem completely off the wall and it may be... but my dad got a flu shot 10 years ago and his body reacted to it really poorly. He was sick for two weeks after the shot to the point he was in the hospital at one point for dehydration. Worse than if he had actually gotten the flu in the first place. And a few months after that he developed leukemia (which is an immuno disease), which was not in our family at all in generations of people and was completely random. I'm not a doctor and I have no idea what this means. But at the end of the day, no one is injecting anything into my body unless I'm laying there on my death bed and that's the only thing that is going to save me. FWIW.

[penultimatestraw 473]

If you are that scared of the flu you are a focking pvssy. If you are a normal healthy adult male, the chances of you dying from the flu are minimal. Why would you intentionally have someone inject something into you that is bad and not good for you so you don't get the flu? It's weird to me. If I get the flu..... what the fock ever... but to have someone inject something into you to try to prevent it when gods know what is in that bullshiit is just weird to me.

 

On a side note... this may seem completely off the wall and it may be... but my dad got a flu shot 10 years ago and his body reacted to it really poorly. He was sick for two weeks after the shot to the point he was in the hospital at one point for dehydration. Worse than if he had actually gotten the flu in the first place. And a few months after that he developed leukemia (which is an immuno disease), which was not in our family at all in generations of people and was completely random. I'm not a doctor and I have no idea what this means. But at the end of the day, no one is injecting anything into my body unless I'm laying there on my death bed and that's the only thing that is going to save me. FWIW.

You don't have to get the shot if you don't want it. You should know the last "swine" flu tended to be more serious in young, otherwise healthy individuals. The same was the case with the swine flu pandemic of 1918. Fortunately the more recent one was overall pretty mild. Even with "pvssy" flu, your chances a serious complication from the disease outweight that of vaccine complications/reactions. And the ingredients in the vaccine are known.

 

Given your feelings about injections, would you vaccinate your children?

[nikki2200 4]

You don't have to get the shot if you don't want it. You should know the last "swine" flu tended to be more serious in young, otherwise healthy individuals. The same was the case with the swine flu pandemic of 1918. Fortunately the more recent one was overall pretty mild. Even with "pvssy" flu, your chances a serious complication from the disease outweight that of vaccine complications/reactions. And the ingredients in the vaccine are known.

 

Given your feelings about injections, would you vaccinate your children?

 

ABSOLUTELY NOT. And I am thinking about procreating in the next year. I will NOT get my kids vaccinated until they go to kindergarten and have to be vaccinated to enter. Or ideally I will send them to a private school because I don't want them to have anything to do with the public school system and if the private school does not require vaccinations, then I will never have them vaccinated.

 

Are my kids seriously going to get the measles which has been a dead disease in this country for decades?

[penultimatestraw 473]

ABSOLUTELY NOT. And I am thinking about procreating in the next year. I will NOT get my kids vaccinated until they go to kindergarten and have to be vaccinated to enter. Or ideally I will send them to a private school because I don't want them to have anything to do with the public school system and if the private school does not require vaccinations, then I will never have them vaccinated.

 

Are my kids seriously going to get the measles which has been a dead disease in this country for decades?

Measles is not a dead disease. Nor is mumps. Nor pertussis. CDC info

They should be, but people making decisions based on emotion rather than reason have fueled their resurgence. And I have the "granola" lifestyle? What are your specific concerns?

[nikki2200 4]

Measles is not a dead disease. Nor is mumps. Nor pertussis. CDC info

They should be, but people making decisions based on emotion rather than reason have fueled their resurgence. And I have the "granola" lifestyle? What are your specific concerns?

 

I have never claimed that I wasn't a hippy at heart. Because I am. I'm all about all natural foods. And alcohol and pot are natural and organic. What I won't do... is let someone inject mercury into my 3 month old child on the .0000001% chance they may get the mumps. Because there are 3 cases of mumps in the US every year does not mean I am going to go into paranoid mode thinking my kid is going to get it just by sitting them in my shopping cart when I go to the grocery store. I will NOT have my child injected with Mercury PERIOD. Because it is a poison. So if I can find an upscale private school that is progressive enough to understand the measles and the mumps and rubella are no longer anything to worry about in this country, I will send my kids there. And not pump mercury into their systems which btw... as a doctor you should know is really really bad for them.

[Giants Fan 85]

I got really sick last winter. I had Pnemonia (sp?). Focking sucked. No idea how I got it, but I was playing a lot of poker at the casino, which is just a big germ fest.

 

Already got my shot this year.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I have never claimed that I wasn't a hippy at heart. Because I am. I'm all about all natural foods. And alcohol and pot are natural and organic. What I won't do... is let someone inject mercury into my 3 month old child on the .0000001% chance they may get the mumps. Because there are 3 cases of mumps in the US every year does not mean I am going to go into paranoid mode thinking my kid is going to get it just by sitting them in my shopping cart when I go to the grocery store. I will NOT have my child injected with Mercury PERIOD. Because it is a poison. So if I can find an upscale private school that is progressive enough to understand the measles and the mumps and rubella are no longer anything to worry about in this country, I will send my kids there. And not pump mercury into their systems which btw... as a doctor you should know is really really bad for them.

Now I know why you are mad as a hatter. Almost all vaccines for children are mercury-free (thimerosol is the mercury-containing preservative). The CDC is your friend

Which childhood vaccines do not contain thimerosal?

 

Today, with the exception of some influenza vaccine, none of the vaccines used to protect preschool children against 14 infectious diseases contain thimerosal as a preservative. (Those with a concentration of less that 0.0002% contain what is considered "trace", or insignificant, amounts). Certain influenza (flu) vaccines and tetanus-diptheria vaccines (Td) given to children 7 and older contain thimerosal as a preservative. For more information on thimerosal content in some currently manufactured U.S. licensed vaccines, visit Thimerosal in Vaccines.

 

Why does some flu vaccine contain thimerosal?

 

Influenza (flu) vaccine is a new addition to the recommended childhood immunization schedule. In 2004, CDC added the vaccine to the childhood immunization schedule, recommending that children 6-23 months of age be vaccinated against flu each year. Inactivated influenza vaccine for children 6-23 months of age is currently available both with thimerosal as a preservative and preservative-free. For more information, see Thimerosal in Seasonal Flu Vaccine.

 

The removal of thimerosal as a preservative from influenza vaccine is a complicated process. The total amount of flu vaccine without thimerosal as a preservative will increase as vaccine manufacturing capabilities are expanded. In the meantime, it is important to keep in mind that the benefits of influenza vaccination outweigh the theoretical risk, if any, for exposure to thimerosal. Each year, an average of about 36,000 people in the United States die from influenza, and 114,000 have to be admitted to the hospital as a result of influenza. People aged 65 years and older, people of any age with chronic medical conditions, and very young children are more likely to get complications from influenza.

As far as the natural=good assumption, some of the most potent toxins known are natural (see ricin, botulin toxin, etc.). Regarding avoiding mercury, when will you let your kids eat seafood, if at all? Will you let your children get fillings for their cavities? When can the kids indulge in alcohol/pot - they are natural, after all?

[Giants Fan 85]

A lot of the LSD I took in the 80's had strychnine in it.