The "running" QB

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

This "running" QB thing over the past decade really hasn't worked out, but why does team continue to try?

None of these guys ever won a Superbowl. Only one that really did it was Steve Young but he was also a great pocket passer. The pure "pocket" passer continues to be the clear cut best option to help a team win the Superbowl.

 

R. Cunningham

K. Stewart

S. McNair

D. McNabb

D. Culpepper [Edit: He needs to be on this list]

M. Vick

V. Young

C. Newtown

T. Tebow

[Vikings4ever 496]

Throw in Rodgers, Rapistberger, and Elway. They are/were not Vick or Newton, but not pure pocket passers either.

 

I think the hope coaches have is that they can develop these athletic QBs into good pocket passers who can take off if need be.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

Throw in Rodgers, Rapistberger, and Elway. They are/were not Vick or Newton, but not pure pocket passers either.

 

I think the hope coaches have is that they can develop these athletic QBs into good pocket passers who can take off if need be.

 

I don't think Big Ben, Rodgers and Elway are part of that category. Their rushing output is a product of a play breaking down instead of a play designed for them to run.

[Serpent 51]

Throw in Rodgers, Rapistberger, and Elway. They are/were not Vick or Newton, but not pure pocket passers either.

 

I think the hope coaches have is that they can develop these athletic QBs into good pocket passers who can take off if need be.

 

Add Favre too, early in his career they ran the naked bootleg constantly.

 

Right now also Luck is a running QB. RG3 is too but isn't as good a runner as Luck is.

 

Edit- Actually now that I think about it, pretty much every elite QB runs when they need to, outside of Peyton and maybe Eli. Even Brady has had a few designed draws the past few weeks. Brees and Romo are very athletic (Romo isn't really elite, but close enough) and do occasionally get some yardage too.

 

I guess it depends on what you mean by running QB. I am not sure what that means.

[southcarolina 166]

Lots of really good QBs didnt win Superbowls.

 

Marino

Moon

Tarkenton

Fouts

Bledsoe

Esiason

Kelly

 

 

Lots of guys who were sorry QBs did win SB's

 

Dilfer

Brad Johnson

Hostetler

Rypien

 

 

So, in closing deciding whether a particular kind of QB is good or bad, using SBs won as the only criteria isnt very meaningful. You are right, the guys you listed didnt win any SBs. Maybe it was because the rest of their teams were horrible. I doubt there is some sort of "QBs run too much" threshold that holds otherwise Super Bowl calibre teams back. Some QBs win, some do not.

[GobbleDog 816]

Steve Young probably ran more than any white QB in the NFL.

[southcarolina 166]

Steve Young probably ran more than any white QB in the NFL.

 

Im pretty sure the OP was only talking about black QBs.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Throw in Rodgers, Rapistberger, and Elway. They are/were not Vick or Newton, but not pure pocket passers either.

 

I think the hope coaches have is that they can develop these athletic QBs into good pocket passers who can take off if need be.

 

You're off here. Rodgers, Roethlisberger and Elway all do more scrambling than running. Roethlisberger in particular does so only to extend the play and almost exclusively with the idea of throwing the ball and not tucking it for a run. He rarely has a lot of rush yardage by season end. Rodgers ran/runs because it's there, not because it's designed. Elway did the same.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Im pretty sure the OP was only talking about black QBs.

 

funny you say that, because Tebow isn't a QB and when I saw his name on there i started humming "one of these things is not like the other, one of these things is just not the same..." This was a very veiled attempt at a shot at black QB's. How come there ain't any Steve Youngs or Fran Tarkentons on the list? 'Cause even doe dey be running QB's, dey ain't black.

[southcarolina 166]

funny you say that, because Tebow isn't a QB and when I saw his name on there i started humming "one of these things is not like the other, one of these things is just not the same..." This was a very veiled attempt at a shot at black QB's. How come there ain't any Steve Youngs or Fran Tarkentons on the list? 'Cause even doe dey be running QB's, dey ain't black.

 

I agree. He didnt even include Super Bowl Champion Doug Williams, who ran for almost 900 yards in his career.

[jgcrawfish 232]

I agree. He didnt even include Super Bowl Champion Doug Williams, who ran for almost 900 yards in his career.

 

Even more obvious omission, Dante Culpepper, who also had some wheels for a big guy.

[kmbryant09 1]

If you think having an extra day of NFL on tv sucks...you must be a fvcking loser

 

 

This "running" QB thing over the past decade really hasn't worked out, but why does team continue to try?

None of these guys ever won a Superbowl. Only one that really did it was Steve Young but he was also a great pocket passer. The pure "pocket" passer continues to be the clear cut best option to help a team win the Superbowl.

 

R. Cunningham

K. Stewart

S. McNair

D. McNabb

M. Vick

V. Young

C. Newtown

T. Tebow

The statement, "No running QB has ever won a Superbowl" is very misleading.

 

You basically just listed every prominent running QB of the past 20 years. Let's include Steve Young in that discussion. First off, Steve Young was a running QB and he won a SB. So that statement is already proven wrong right off the bat. Besides that, though - there's been 8 running QB's over the past 20 years, out of a few hundred total QB's (lets just say 200 starting QB's for a few years over the last two decades). There's been 20 SB winners over the past 20 years (duh), so there's no surprise that 8/200 possible QB's haven't won any of the 20 SB's. And that doesn't even take into consideration that Newton has only played 1 yaer, Young only played a few years, and Tebow essentially played half a season.

 

By my count, there have only been 6 true running QB's during the past few decades - Young, Cunningham, Vick, Stewart, McNair, and McNabb. One of those QB's won a SB, and 2 of them were league MVP's. I'm not trying to suggest that running QB's is the way to go, but this whole notion that no one has ever won anything with a mobile QB is utter nonsense.

 

It's like saying, Dan Marino, Tony Romo, and Brett Favre were all considered gunslingers, and they've only won 1 combined SB. Therefore, don't pursue QB's like these because you can't win with them.

[jgcrawfish 232]

It's like saying, Dan Marino, Tony Romo, and Brett Favre were all considered gunslingers, and they've only won 1 combined SB. Therefore, don't pursue QB's like these because you can't win with them.

 

These guys are all white, so in the OP's eyes, they're alright.

[southcarolina 166]

These guys are all white, so in the OP's eyes, they're alright.

 

Basically, his point is that no "running" QB has ever won a Super Bowl, except the ones who have.

[Ramrock 13]

I agree. He didnt even include Super Bowl Champion Doug Williams, who ran for almost 900 yards in his career.

This guy here is the dumbest football fan ever! 11 seasons 900 yards , that's less than 100 yards a season moron. Doug was a pocket passer from his first days in the NFl . Get a clue moron or stay of the board.

[Maroon Bells 18]

Because the football is changing. People thought it was going to change 20 years ago and it wasn't time. People thought it was going to change 10 years ago and it wasn't time. But it's changing. You can see it in how NFL teams are no longer ignoring the college option QBs (Tebow, Newton, RGIII, Kaepernick) and you can see it in how NFL teams are changing their offenses (albeit, very slowly) to suit the kind of QBs that are available to them from the college ranks. It will take a long time to completely change, but eventually, there will be more Colin Kaepernicks starting in the NFL than Tom Bradys.

[Joey Gladstone 33]

Maybe a little early to include Newton on that list?

[Ramrock 13]

Don't compare Steve Young to any of these clowns , Steve was a running qb in tampa because he was running for his life by 1994 Super Bowl season he was averaging 18 yards a game, well under the 25 yards per game he averaged the prior 4 years. In other words for those that can't understand he was a scrambler not a running Qb when he won his first and only Super Bowl. God must love stupid people he made enough.

[Ramrock 13]

Because the football is changing. People thought it was going to change 20 years ago and it wasn't time. People thought it was going to change 10 years ago and it wasn't time. But it's changing. You can see it in how NFL teams are no longer ignoring the college option QBs (Tebow, Newton, RGIII, Kaepernick) and you can see it in how NFL teams are changing their offenses (albeit, very slowly) to suit the kind of QBs that are available to them from the college ranks. It will take a long time to completely change, but eventually, there will be more Colin Kaepernicks starting in the NFL than Tom Bradys

 

 

Your wrong on so many levels I wouldn't know where to begin. There is a intelligent level that is needed to play the position plain and simple.

[KSB2424 3,083]

Your wrong on so many levels I wouldn't know where to begin. There is a intelligent level that is needed to play the position plain and simple.

Intelligent people can't run?

[Stewburtx8 67]

Don't compare Steve Young to any of these clowns , Steve was a running qb in tampa because he was running for his life by 1994 Super Bowl season he was averaging 18 yards a game, well under the 25 yards per game he averaged the prior 4 years. In other words for those that can't understand he was a scrambler not a running Qb when he won his first and only Super Bowl. God must love stupid people he made enough.

 

 

Steve Young is the #2 all time rushing QB in NFL history with 4,239 rushing yards. To suggest running wasn't a big part of his game is ridiculous. Now obviously he was a tremendous passer as well. How do you define a running QB?

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

Some pretty good discussion.

Hear me out. First, i didn't say "running" QB can't win Superbowl. No where did i mentioned that, in a matter of fact i stated the last true running QB that won was Steve Young. What i'm alluring to are why teams continue to draft these quarterbacks with poor accuracy and suspect pocket presence over the past decade and think these guys can re-invent the position. Every few years we get the same 'hype' and it seems to have gotten worst. From Stewart to Vick to McNabb to Culpepper to Vince Young to Cam Newton and now RG3. I doubt any of these guys have a legitimate chance of winning the Superbowl over the next 3-5 years.

 

But yet, it's guys like Brees, Rodgers, Manning(s), Brady and Big Ben who are winning the big games with their accuracy and passing. For fantasy purposes, these illusive players are great but when it comes down to winning the big one, they disappear.

[Ramrock 13]

No they can't they scramble big difference.

[Ramrock 13]

Steve Young is the #2 all time rushing QB in NFL history with 4,239 rushing yards. To suggest running wasn't a big part of his game is ridiculous. Now obviously he was a tremendous passer as well. How do you define a running QB?

I'm not debating what he done early in his career man , read the post. He's said it a number of times I became a better QB when I learned to stay in the pocket

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

Steve Young is the #2 all time rushing QB in NFL history with 4,239 rushing yards. To suggest running wasn't a big part of his game is ridiculous. Now obviously he was a tremendous passer as well. How do you define a running QB?

 

Yes, he was a runner but at his prime he was one of the most accurate passer of all time.

From 1991 to 1997 his completion % was:

 

64.5

66.7

68.0

70.3

66.9

67.7

67.7

[Serpent 51]

Yes, he was a runner but at his prime he was one of the most accurate passer of all time.

From 1991 to 1997 his completion % was:

 

64.5

66.7

68.0

70.3

66.9

67.7

67.7

 

LOL RG3 has a 70% completion rate but you consider him a running QB.

 

Get out of here you racist POS. I'm putting you on ignore and suggest everyone else do the same. I haven't seen one intelligent post from you since I've been here.

 

Andrew Luck runs more than RG3 does but has a 55% completion rate, but of course since he is white he is not a running QB either.

[Ramrock 13]

Some pretty good discussion.

Hear me out. First, i didn't say "running" QB can't win Superbowl. No where did i mentioned that, in a matter of fact i stated the last true running QB that won was Steve Young. What i'm alluring to are why teams continue to draft these quarterbacks with poor accuracy and suspect pocket presence over the past decade and think these guys can re-invent the position. Every few years we get the same 'hype' and it seems to have gotten worst. From Stewart to Vick to McNabb to Culpepper to Vince Young to Cam Newton and now RG3. I doubt any of these guys have a legitimate chance of winning the Superbowl over the next 3-5 years.

 

But yet, it's guys like Brees, Rodgers, Manning(s), Brady and Big Ben who are winning the big games with their accuracy and passing. For fantasy purposes, these illusive players are great but when it comes down to winning the big one, they disappear.

 

You will never win this discussion without being labeled a racist. It comes from they same people that voted for Obama only to prove they weren't a racist. I don't draft them EVER in my league's because I'm not taking the risk of losing my starting QB for 4-6 weeks at any time. With that being said I also don't take QB's like Rodgers, Bress and Brady when they are being drafted in the first round.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

If you look at the direction of the current NFL and the era of the passing game, why would team even try to bother to build around a player like Cam Newton and Micheal Vick? Even a team the old school ground and pound team like Ravens and Steelers have essentially abandoned the ground game and handed the keys to pocket passer.

[Stewburtx8 67]

Some pretty good discussion.

Hear me out. First, i didn't say "running" QB can't win Superbowl. No where did i mentioned that, in a matter of fact i stated the last true running QB that won was Steve Young. What i'm alluring to are why teams continue to draft these quarterbacks with poor accuracy and suspect pocket presence over the past decade and think these guys can re-invent the position. Every few years we get the same 'hype' and it seems to have gotten worst. From Stewart to Vick to McNabb to Culpepper to Vince Young to Cam Newton and now RG3. I doubt any of these guys have a legitimate chance of winning the Superbowl over the next 3-5 years.

 

But yet, it's guys like Brees, Rodgers, Manning(s), Brady and Big Ben who are winning the big games with their accuracy and passing. For fantasy purposes, these illusive players are great but when it comes down to winning the big one, they disappear.

 

 

Donovan McNabb played in 5 NFC Championship games and played in a Super Bowl. Cam Newton and Robert Griffin were both drafted in the top 2 the last two years on to obviously bad teams. To make a judgement on either of them at this point would be stupid. How long did it take Peyton Manning to win a Super Bowl? 9 seasons I believe. One player doesn't just turn around a franchise. John Elway didn't win a Super Bowl until his 15th season. Manning and Elway were both top picks drafted on to bad teams.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

LOL RG3 has a 70% completion rate but you consider him a running QB.

 

Get out of here you racist POS. I'm putting you on ignore and suggest everyone else do the same. I haven't seen one intelligent post from you since I've been here.

 

Andrew Luck runs more than RG3 does but has a 55% completion rate, but of course since he is white he is not a running QB either.

 

Let's do our best and leave the race card out of this.

It's bloody obvious that Luck was drafted with his big strength as a pocket passer that can make all the throws. RG3 was drafted as another guy that they said will 'reinvent' the QB position. Those are their strengths and that's how they were graded as coming out of the draft.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

Donovan McNabb played in 5 NFC Championship games and played in a Super Bowl. Cam Newton and Robert Griffin were both drafted in the top 2 the last two years on to obviously bad teams. To make a judgement on either of them at this point would be stupid. How long did it take Peyton Manning to win a Super Bowl? 9 seasons I believe. One player doesn't just turn around a franchise. John Elway didn't win a Super Bowl until his 15th season. Manning and Elway were both top picks drafted on to bad teams.

 

Fact: McNabb never won no matter how close.

Fact: Manning & Elway eventually won.

[Stewburtx8 67]

I'm not debating what he done early in his career man , read the post. He's said it a number of times I became a better QB when I learned to stay in the pocket

 

 

Didn't he run for over 450 yards in 1998, his last full season in the NFL? Stop trying to fit players in to your mold of a "running" QB. By that I mean, black QB's. Steve Young was a "running" QB, plain and simple. Now obviously he was a tremendous all around QB and great passer as well. But he was a running QB.

[Stewburtx8 67]

Fact: McNabb never won no matter how close.

Fact: Manning & Elway eventually won.

 

 

A lot of very good/great QB's never won Super Bowls, whether they were runners, passers, black, white, etc. A lot of mediocre/below average QB's did win Super Bowls. A Super Bowl team is made up of more than one player.

[Serpent 51]

Let's do our best and leave the race card out of this.

It's bloody obvious that Luck was drafted with his big strength as a pocket passer that can make all the throws. RG3 was drafted as another guy that they said will 'reinvent' the QB position. Those are their strengths and that's how they were graded as coming out of the draft.

 

RG3 won the Heisman because of his passing.

 

Try again.

 

You are not going to win if you insist on using RG3 as your running QB and insisting Luck isn't. Most scouts have RG3 graded as the better passer and Luck as the better runner, including Greg Cossell but many others.

[Serpent 51]

10,071 yards 66.125% 78 TD 17 INT 155.35 Rating

9,430 yards 67.0% 82 TD 22 INT 162.8 Rating

 

Which one is the passer? Both? None? Those are college stats. Unless you are incredibly daft you know which two.

 

But come on, keep up your racist ranting and pretend that Steve Young and Andrew Luck passing the ball means they are just good passers, and black QBs like RG3 are runners even when they pass because you have some real, non-racist reason.

[Ramrock 13]

Didn't he run for over 450 yards in 1998, his last full season in the NFL? Stop trying to fit players in to your mold of a "running" QB. By that I mean, black QB's. Steve Young was a "running" QB, plain and simple. Now obviously he was a tremendous all around QB and great passer as well. But he was a running QB.

And he didn't play in a super bowl dumb a#s that the point . Go back to bed you haven't a clue.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

A lot of very good/great QB's never won Super Bowls, whether they were runners, passers, black, white, etc. A lot of mediocre/below average QB's did win Super Bowls. A Super Bowl team is made up of more than one player.

 

Yes, but the BEST pocket passers decade are the ones winning it since the NFL is tailored towards the pocket passer.

Why even bother with the "running" QB?

[Ramrock 13]

10,071 yards 66.125% 78 TD 17 INT 155.35 Rating

9,430 yards 67.0% 82 TD 22 INT 162.8 Rating

 

Which one is the passer? Both? None? Those are college stats. Unless you are incredibly daft you know which two.

 

But come on, keep up your racist ranting and pretend that Steve Young and Andrew Luck passing the ball means they are just good passers, and black QBs like RG3 are runners even when they pass because you have some real, non-racist reason.

You do realize college and pro are two different levels of football right. you must be a afro American because you get offended for no reason.

[Joey Gladstone 33]

I was going to mention McNabb but he did choke in that Superbowl. You can never (usually) blame a loss on one player, but TO was playing out of his mind and that game was there for the taking.

[Serpent 51]

You do realize college and pro are two different levels of football right. you must be a afro American because you get offended for no reason.

 

Oh so I see, the pro game.

 

69.1% completion rate, 101 QB rating for RG3 as a pro.

 

54.2% completion rate and 77.1 QB rating for Luck.

 

Oh but that doesn't count either right?

 

You racists are retarded. Do you really think you can just scare people into ignoring facts to promote your agendas? I have never seen two racists make it so easy either.

 

You can't use facts, racists never can. When other people use facts you get angry and try to insult them the only way you know how...by accusing them of being Black!!!

 

You two are the only ones that don't see how badly you're getting owned here.