What do you think about this Snowden guy and his leaks?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

I don't know if he is a hero for bringing to light the Gubmint snooping, or if he is an asshat for not keeping his mouth shut.

[Voltaire 4,562]

I don't know if he is a hero for bringing to light the Gubmint snooping, or if he is an asshat for not keeping his mouth shut.

Hero, barely. I'm not convinced it's wrong, nor am I offended, I'm probably grudgingly fine with it. Better law enforcement spying on us than people trying to sell us sh*t which already is happening and I don't like but am not getting bent out of shape over.

 

In the end, it should be done in the open light and the consequences be discussed. Not done quietly. So I went with hero. If anything gets banned, I would want advertisers to stop looking at my search functions. Still if I had to choose between no/low cost access to the internet and putting up with the advertisers who foot the bill, I'd chose access and advertisers.

[wiffleball 4,643]

He's no Bradley Manning, I can tell you that.

 

Then again, Mannin's no Clayton Lonetree.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

Interesting question. I have thought about this myself. Part of me thinks he is a hero for exposing what the government is doing without the knowledge of its citizens. Also you have the fact that the NSA apparently lied to Congress about what they were doing. So generally I say "hero".

 

However, a big part of it has to do with his motivations. Is it for fame? Ego? Was he planning to defect from the United States anyway, so some of his motivation was to hurt the country?

 

And how much did his disclosure hurt the country? Is this merely a black eye on the NSA publicly, or will it have a real, unjustifiable effect on our government's ability to combat terrorism?

 

I think we have to see how this thing plays out before we can really make a determination, but right now I lean "hero".

[wiffleball 4,643]

 

And how much did his disclosure hurt the country? Is this merely a black eye on the NSA publicly, or will it have a real, unjustifiable effect on our government's ability to combat terrorism?

 

I think we have to see how this thing plays out before we can really make a determination, but right now I lean "hero".

 

Let me take this one: If he truly WAS a 'hero' acting out in his version of civil disobedience, he would have stopped after his first revelations.

 

However, the reason he's not a hero and is nothing more than ###### flailing wildly is because he has since come out and told the world about America's counter-intelligence efforts against the Chinese and other folks. He knows that they 'hack' us. So, what exactly is he doing for American Freedom by 'outing' our counter intelligence efforts against other countries hacking - not just government data - but U.S. individual data as well.

 

Apparently, he's okay with China hacking US individual data, but not so much when the US does it.

 

And that's why this guy needs to get garotted as soon as possible.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

 

Let me take this one: If he truly WAS a 'hero' acting out in his version of civil disobedience, he would have stopped after his first revelations.

 

However, the reason he's not a hero and is nothing more than ###### flailing wildly is because he has since come out and told the world about America's counter-intelligence efforts against the Chinese and other folks. He knows that they 'hack' us. So, what exactly is he doing for American Freedom by 'outing' our counter intelligence efforts against other countries hacking - not just government data - but U.S. individual data as well.

 

Apparently, he's okay with China hacking US individual data, but not so much when the US does it.

 

And that's why this guy needs to get garotted as soon as possible.

 

A solid point. Although, I think, he said that about China in connection with the United States possibly coming after him. Like his point was that he isn't really safe because the U.S. can easily hack into China's stuff to get info about him or whatever. I don't know.

[BunnysBastatrds 1,920]

He's a young man with a lot of balls. No matter what the media portray him as, he's got moxy. This young man has made all of us think outside the lines for a day or two.

[wiffleball 4,643]

He's a young man with a lot of balls. No matter what the media portray him as, he's got moxy. This young man has made all of us think outside the lines for a day or two.

 

 

Okay, I don't know who "Moxy" is, but the puss should at LEAST let her go while he's holed up in Hong Kong. Moxy doesn't know anything. She's either a Labradoodle or a stripper. In either case, they're not smart enough to be involved in this.

[Voltaire 4,562]

 

Let me take this one: If he truly WAS a 'hero' acting out in his version of civil disobedience, he would have stopped after his first revelations.

 

However, the reason he's not a hero and is nothing more than ###### flailing wildly is because he has since come out and told the world about America's counter-intelligence efforts against the Chinese and other folks. He knows that they 'hack' us. So, what exactly is he doing for American Freedom by 'outing' our counter intelligence efforts against other countries hacking - not just government data - but U.S. individual data as well.

 

Apparently, he's okay with China hacking US individual data, but not so much when the US does it.

 

And that's why this guy needs to get garotted as soon as possible.

I agree with this too. My opinion of him hasn't gelled, it is still forming and opening his yapper about US activity in counter-hacking China was a big no-no yet for some reason I didn't consider it. To me that's way more offensive than his initial leaks, which I consider a good thing serving the public interest and earned him my initial 'hero' vote.

 

I'm changing my vote. 2-0 hero becoms 1-1 tie. But know this, the 'traitor' vote is based 100% on his second round of exposing secrets regarding US anti-hacking efforts to the Chinese, and not at all for his informing US citizens of the government spying on them.

[Broheim Steamrollers 0]

 

Let me take this one: If he truly WAS a 'hero' acting out in his version of civil disobedience, he would have stopped after his first revelations.

 

However, the reason he's not a hero and is nothing more than ###### flailing wildly is because he has since come out and told the world about America's counter-intelligence efforts against the Chinese and other folks. He knows that they 'hack' us. So, what exactly is he doing for American Freedom by 'outing' our counter intelligence efforts against other countries hacking - not just government data - but U.S. individual data as well.

 

Apparently, he's okay with China hacking US individual data, but not so much when the US does it.

 

And that's why this guy needs to get garotted as soon as possible.

 

I don't understand why proving we hack China is a big deal. Of course we hack China, they hack us back, and governments all over the world do it. To think otherwise would be naive. Ok he has physical proof of it, big deal. Maybe I've missed something and he leaked a bunch of highly classified documents but otherwise I don't see why that should surprise anyone.

[wiffleball 4,643]

 

I don't understand why proving we hack China is a big deal. Of course we hack China, they hack us back, and governments all over the world do it. To think otherwise would be naive. Ok he has physical proof of it, big deal. Maybe I've missed something and he leaked a bunch of highly classified documents but otherwise I don't see why that should surprise anyone.

 

See now, you're changing the premise of the question. It's not about 'surprise'. Answer the simple question: How does a well-placed analyst confirming that the US is hacking China somehow help the poor Americans who are having their privacy compromised? Becuase the latter is/was his original justification for his actions.

 

At this point, he's just making shiit up to ingnratiate himself to anyone who will give him asylum. He had a tenous ground to stand on - and promptly surrendered it. True heroes fighting American 'injustice' have traditionally stuck around despite the consequences. He did not. And to top it off, now he's just spouting whatever he can - even if it has nothing whatsoever to do with American privacy or moral issues.

[Broheim Steamrollers 0]

 

See now, you're changing the premise of the question. It's not about 'surprise'. Answer the simple question: How does a well-placed analyst confirming that the US is hacking China somehow help the poor Americans who are having their privacy compromised? Becuase the latter is/was his original justification for his actions.

 

At this point, he's just making shiit up to ingnratiate himself to anyone who will give him asylum. He had a tenous ground to stand on - and promptly surrendered it. True heroes fighting American 'injustice' have traditionally stuck around despite the consequences. He did not. And to top it off, now he's just spouting whatever he can - even if it has nothing whatsoever to do with American privacy or moral issues.

 

Good point, I hadn't thought of releasing China info in relation to the point of his original leak. However, I do think it is logical for him to leak his China documents. He was obviously going to become a target of the US government and he feels releasing China documents will help his cause. I guess I cant fault him for that as it seems pretty logical on a personal level.

[phillybear 364]

Hero.

 

This was never about terrorism. There is no connection to terrorism at all. It's 100% about exposing a corrupt U.S. government compiling data in order to keep it's citizens in line.

 

The stuff with China? Irrelevant. The U.S. government has been rather forthcoming in the past decade about how China is running circles around us in electronic espionage.

[DanXIII 8]

I don't think he's a hero or a traitor tbh. Is it automatically treasonous to simply break the law? If he's selling national secrets to the Chinese or Russians that's one thing, but outing confidential info does not necessarily make one a traitor. It makes them a criminal, though, which is why you can't really accurately call him a whistleblower. Well that and the fact that the crap the NSA is doing is likely perfectly legal under the Patriot Act.

[The Moz 69]

He leaked info then decided to hid out in China - what other conclusion than traitor is there? Yes it is "honk Kong" but HK is still run by Red China. Had he of gone to a run of the mill no Extradition country fine but to a known enemy of the US - sorry just seems fishy.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

He leaked info then decided to hid out in China - what other conclusion than traitor is there? Yes it is "honk Kong" but HK is still run by Red China. Had he of gone to a run of the mill no Extradition country fine but to a known enemy of the US - sorry just seems fishy.

Hong Kong isn't a known enemy of the US. They are really an ally at this point, though China's rising influence there is certainly a cause for concern.

[DanXIII 8]

The problem with this guy is really the same problem that we have with gov't abuses: When one guy decides he knows better and is going to risk other people based on that determination. They always want to hide behind some kind of "I did it for everyone else" screen. But let's face it, we didn't vote on it. We didn't vote to give him the authority to do it, and we certainly didn't vote on the specifics. In a way what he did was more anti democratic and authoritarian than the guys he is railing against. It makes sense that he went to China.

[The Next Generation 10]

I don't know if he is a hero for bringing to light the Gubmint snooping, or if he is an asshat for not keeping his mouth shut.

 

sure you don't...

[The Moz 69]

Hong Kong isn't a known enemy of the US. They are really an ally at this point, though China's rising influence there is certainly a cause for concern.

So being in control of a region to you is "rising influence" ? Unless I am way off in 1999 England gave HK back to the PRC. China allows HK to have it's own currency and stucture but in the end the PRC still has final say whenever it wants to. As while HK has it's own government they still answer to Red China. Taiwan has been offered the same treatment and they fight it with their last breathe as they don't want to controlled by the PRC.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

So being in control of a region to you is "rising influence" ? Unless I am way off in 1999 England gave HK back to the PRC. China allows HK to have it's own currency and stucture but in the end the PRC still has final say whenever it wants to. As while HK has it's own government they still answer to Red China. Taiwan has been offered the same treatment and they fight it with their last breathe as they don't want to controlled by the PRC.

China is not supposed to interfere with Hong Kong for 50 years. They have their own constitution and system of governance. Now whether China actually honors that agreement is a different question.

[The Pope 8]

Where is he leaking?

 

[JTB 52]

What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.

[The Pope 8]

What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.

Unless your name is OJ

[SUXBNME 1,337]

[beavis] Give him the chair THE CHAIR !@# [beavis]

[Giants Fan 85]

 

pol pot.

[shovelheadt 62]

I hope he rots in prison for the rest of his life. Whether it was Bush or Obama, it's now a necessary evil. He's nothing more than a focking goob who's too smart for his own good...he just doesn't realize it yet. Or maybe he does..thus the flight to HK. Even if he actually thinks he's doing the right thing, he swore an oath and signed a contract to do the exact opposite. F him.

[The Moz 69]

I hope he rots in prison for the rest of his life. Whether it was Bush or Obama, it's now a necessary evil. He's nothing more than a focking goob who's too smart for his own good...he just doesn't realize it yet. Or maybe he does..thus the flight to HK. Even if he actually thinks he's doing the right thing, he swore an oath and signed a contract to do the exact opposite. F him.

I don't know if I would officially call it treason but it is a serious crime - and while I am not a fan of making someone an example - one needs to be made here to help prevent this from occurring again. Punish him for treason and execute him.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

I don't know if I would officially call it treason but it is a serious crime - and while I am not a fan of making someone an example - one needs to be made here to help prevent this from occurring again. Punish him for treason and execute him.

Maybe laws need to be updated to say any leak of classified info constitutes treason and is punishable by death.

 

Put in place a way to handle whistleblowing on corruption without exposing sensitive info.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

Maybe laws need to be updated to say any leak of classified info constitutes treason and is punishable by death.

 

Put in place a way to handle whistleblowing on corruption without exposing sensitive info.

Yes, that's brilliant. Let's put it into law that any government whistleblowers will be shot. That'll really help out with transparency

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Yes, that's brilliant. Let's put it into law that any government whistleblowers will be shot. That'll really help out with transparency

Didn't say anything about whistleblowers being shot, moron.

 

I said people who expose classified info. I also said there needs to be a system in place for whistleblowers.

 

Geebus you are dumb.

[Broheim Steamrollers 0]

Didn't say anything about whistleblowers being shot, moron.

 

I said people who expose classified info. I also said there needs to be a system in place for whistleblowers.

 

Geebus you are dumb.

 

Wut? Then what does your previous post mean?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

 

Wut? Then what does your previous post mean?

It means just what it says.

 

People who leak classified info into the public domain that can be used by our enemies = shot.

 

Set up a system so that if the Govt has run afoul of the law a whistleblower can come forward without exposing classified info to the public.

 

Pretty simple..........unless you are a simpleton.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

 

Wut? Then what does your previous post mean?

It means you're only free to leak things everyone already knows anyway.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

It means you're only free to leak things everyone already knows anyway.

It means you shouldn't be leaking classified information, Simpleton.

[Broheim Steamrollers 0]

It means you shouldn't be leaking classified information, Simpleton.

 

Then what do government whistleblowers leak? Isn't all the shady stuff going to be classified? And if it's not classified isn't it public info then?

 

Edit: Looked it up for myself. Stuff can be declassified but not public. Still though...if stuff is declassified there's obviously not currently vitally senstive info in it. Which I think would defeat the purpose of whistleblowing

[Recliner Pilot 61]

 

Then what do government whistleblowers leak? Isn't all the shady stuff going to be classified? And if it's not classified isn't it public info then?

Who said a whistleblower has to make classified info public?

 

Why not set up a system where anyone who knows of illegality in the govt can go directly to anyone on the Senate or House intel committee and pass that info on to them for investigation? If that person doesn't act, go to the next one until it is taken care of.

 

Or set up a committee just for whistleblowers to report to.

 

This isn't rocket surgery, but it is obviously over the head of a few here.

[Broheim Steamrollers 0]

Who said a whistleblower has to make classified info public?

 

Why not set up a system where anyone who knows of illegality in the govt can go directly to anyone on the Senate or House intel committee and pass that info on to them for investigation? If that person doesn't act, go to the next one until it is taken care of.

 

Or set up a committee just for whistleblowers to report to.

 

This isn't rocket surgery, but it is obviously over the head of a few here.

 

Well now that you've clarified it, it makes a lot more sense lol. You're post above kind of jumbled your thoughts I think. And I totally agree with what you're saying

[IGotWorms 3,315]

 

Then what do government whistleblowers leak? Isn't all the shady stuff going to be classified? And if it's not classified isn't it public info then?

 

Edit: Looked it up for myself. Stuff can be declassified but not public. Still though...if stuff is declassified there's obviously not currently vitally senstive info in it. Which I think would defeat the purpose of whistleblowing

Basically RP is saying that a government person shouldn't be executed for properly responding to a FOIA request

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Basically RP is saying that a government person shouldn't be executed for properly responding to a FOIA request

You aren't having a good thread.

[GobbleDog 816]

Regardless if he's a hero or traitor... leaking the information sparked a debate about privacy rights with new technology. That needs debating as technology advances. It's obviously overdue as most Americans were shocked the government data-mined everyone's personal information.

 

 

Sadly since the story broke, both parties are basically saying "We don't have to debate rights. It's for your own good and we consider it legal."