Michael Sam will not play a down of NFL football.

[the spanker 28]

I agree he shouldn't have done this if he wasn't ready to carry the torch because essentially that is what he is doing. But I can't blame him for wanting that. We all want to be judged equally amongst our peers.

 

If he exists? What, you don't know yet? I know, difficult to actually find evidence. I've heard many preachers say look around you, it is obvious that God made us. Just look around. Yet 90% (and I may be on the low end) of all scientists don't believe in Christianity. They not only looked around, but found so much compelling evidence that the God of the bible doesn't exist. I guess when you are selling heal all berry juice, evidence is your enemy.

 

 

Read my post carefully, it was directed at your lack of faith, not my own.

 

You really didn't catch my deeper meaning here. Let me explain it to you.

 

For grins right now, let's say you're right. God is a fairy and Jesus is a unicorn. You're right and I'm wrong. We both die and I suppose we just die and our souls (another misbelieved myth by countless others besides myself) also doesn't exist and we are just done, right? Gone, end of story, just as the other billions have gone to virtually no where. I guess then there isn't much of a penalty or consequence for either of us.

 

Now let's say I'm right, and your wrong (wha? yeah, you might be actually wrong but stay with me here). God does exist, and for reasons beyond your mortal 20-50 or so years you've been living in the universe and managed to make sense of it all have erred in your great philosophical thinking. What then is the penalty or consequence?

 

I'd rather believe in the latter than the former my friend.

 

Case closed but to each his own.

 

At least we agree on one thing after the fact, Sam never had a chance man..he was through before he even got started.

 

Oh and you may be presumptuous in saying that's what Sam wanted. It may not had been what he wanted but he might have felt pressured by the NFL/media to come out.

 

Like another poster commented, not a smart move before he was possibly drafted.

[tanatastic 2,061]

 

For grins right now, let's say you're right. God is a fairy and Jesus is a unicorn. You're right and I'm wrong. We both die and I suppose we just die and our souls (another misbelieved myth by countless others besides myself) also doesn't exist and we are just done, right? Gone, end of story, just as the other billions have gone to virtually no where. I guess then there isn't much of a penalty or consequence for either of us.

 

Now let's say I'm right, and your wrong (wha? yeah, you might be actually wrong but stay with me here). God does exist, and for reasons beyond your mortal 20-50 or so years you've been living in the universe and managed to make sense of it all have erred in your great philosophical thinking. What then is the penalty or consequence?

 

I'd rather believe in the latter than the former my friend.

 

Case closed but to each his own.

 

I completely agree, since theres no penalty for being right that theres no god, its safer to just assume there is and spare yourself eternal hell. That line of thought is about the closest iv heard to logic from a believer maybe ever. But It doesnt make the story of creation (I dont need to argue, the simple fact of dinosaurs debunks creation.) and jesus any less ridiculous. Ill spell it out right here...I believe in god. I believe that an omnipotent force created the universe. But I dont believe for a second in christ, the bible, religeon at all, allah, hell, heaven, sin, none of it. Its all simply bunk that was made up by men. God is simply a force that created the universe, set life on earth in motion billions of years ago and nothing more.

 

Thats the last of my religeous debate responses, thank god.

[the spanker 28]

I completely agree, since theres no penalty for being right that theres no god, its safer to just assume there is and spare yourself eternal hell. That line of thought is about the closest iv heard to logic from a believer maybe ever. But It doesnt make the story of creation (I dont need to argue, the simple fact of dinosaurs debunks creation.) and jesus any less ridiculous. Ill spell it out right here...I believe in god. I believe that an omnipotent force created the universe. But I dont believe for a second in christ, the bible, religeon at all, allah, hell, heaven, sin, none of it. Its all simply bunk that was made up by men. God is simply a force that created the universe, set life on earth in motion billions of years ago and nothing more.

 

Thats the last of my religeous debate responses, thank god.

 

Then perhaps we are not as far apart in our philosophical differences as we might have initially believed.

 

As for dinosaurs not mentioned in the bible that is incorrect. They ARE mentioned in the Bible.

 

Of course the creatures mentioned are not called dinosaurs because mankind didn't call them dinosaurs back then but there are descriptions in the Bible which correlate with the classifications of the beasts we know today.

 

One of the Bible's description of a dinosaur-like animal is recorded in Job chapter 40. “Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox. What strength he has in his loins, what power in the muscles of his belly! His tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are close-knit. His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like rods of iron. He ranks first among the works of God…” (Job 40:15-19).

 

Oh and by the way, The book of Job was probably written around 2,000 years before Jesus was born. So I don't know where you guys are getting your very ancient timeline from. Here God describes a great king of the land animals like some of the biggest dinosaurs, the Diplodocus and Apatosaurus. It was a gigantic plant-eater with great muscles and very strong bones. The long Diplodocus had leg bones so strong that he could have held three others on his back.

 

Dinosaurs were extinct and the fossil skeletons that are in museums today did not begin to be put together until about 150 years ago. Today, some people have mistakenly guessed that the behemoth mentioned in the Bible might be an elephant or a hippopotamus. But those animals certainly did not have tails like the thick, tall trunks of cedar trees!

 

Again, if you're right no consequence for you, but if I'm right....

[Pecos Rattlers 5]

I completely agree, since theres no penalty for being right that theres no god, its safer to just assume there is and spare yourself eternal hell. That line of thought is about the closest iv heard to logic from a believer maybe ever.

Reminds me of a 400 year old wager: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager

 

So yes, that line of thought may have been trod before.

 

But It doesnt make the story of creation (I dont need to argue, the simple fact of dinosaurs debunks creation.) and jesus any less ridiculous. Ill spell it out right here...I believe in god. I believe that an omnipotent force created the universe. But I dont believe for a second in christ, the bible, religeon at all, allah, hell, heaven, sin, none of it. Its all simply bunk that was made up by men. God is simply a force that created the universe, set life on earth in motion billions of years ago and nothing more.

 

Thats the last of my religeous debate responses, thank god.

 

Some Christians believe literally every word in the bible. Some Christians believe that much of it is allegory/simplified.

 

For example, if you were a divine entity trying to explain to relatively unadvanced man how you made the universe ... what would be the best way to tell the story? Days is something they could understand. Billions of years and billions of stars & the big bang ... the formation of the first stars with fewer elements that seeded later stars that developed life, etc, perhaps a bit beyond their ken.

[murf74 461]

I agree he shouldn't have done this if he wasn't ready to carry the torch because essentially that is what he is doing. But I can't blame him for wanting that. We all want to be judged equally amongst our peers.

 

If he exists? What, you don't know yet? I know, difficult to actually find evidence. I've heard many preachers say look around you, it is obvious that God made us. Just look around. Yet 90% (and I may be on the low end) of all scientists don't believe in Christianity. They not only looked around, but found so much compelling evidence that the God of the bible doesn't exist. I guess when you are selling heal all berry juice, evidence is your enemy.

Did Jesus exist? I don't think anyone can dispute that only if he was your savior or not

 

What evidence is there that God does not exist?

[MDC 5,974]

Did Jesus exist? I don't think anyone can dispute that only if he was your savior or not

 

What evidence is there that God does not exist?

Same evidence that the Easter Bunny and Spider Man are fake.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Did Jesus exist? I don't think anyone can dispute that only if he was your savior or not

 

What evidence is there that God does not exist?

God exists in faith. This is undeniable and has burned atheists for thousands of years. The concept of faith is harder for them to comprehend than the concept of God.

[JtmoneyJag 25]

 

 

Read my post carefully, it was directed at your lack of faith, not my own.

 

You really didn't catch my deeper meaning here. Let me explain it to you.

 

For grins right now, let's say you're right. God is a fairy and Jesus is a unicorn. You're right and I'm wrong. We both die and I suppose we just die and our souls (another misbelieved myth by countless others besides myself) also doesn't exist and we are just done, right? Gone, end of story, just as the other billions have gone to virtually no where. I guess then there isn't much of a penalty or consequence for either of us.

 

Now let's say I'm right, and your wrong (wha? yeah, you might be actually wrong but stay with me here). God does exist, and for reasons beyond your mortal 20-50 or so years you've been living in the universe and managed to make sense of it all have erred in your great philosophical thinking. What then is the penalty or consequence?

 

I'd rather believe in the latter than the former my friend.

 

Case closed but to each his own.

 

At least we agree on one thing after the fact, Sam never had a chance man..he was through before he even got started.

 

Oh and you may be presumptuous in saying that's what Sam wanted. It may not had been what he wanted but he might have felt pressured by the NFL/media to come out.

 

Like another poster commented, not a smart move before he was possibly drafted.

I have heard this argument countless times. As I mentioned earlier, I was raised in a Christian family and went to church from age 4 on. I refuse to live my life in fear which is basically what you are saying. Believe in something because if it's real no matter how ridiculous than you could spend eternity in hell. I'd rather use reasoning and not be afraid to ask questions in fear that I may lose my faith... that is what I did growing up. Brainwashed at a young age. And feared ever asking questions because that could mean I may not believe.

 

I have no idea what happens after I die. Maybe God is actually a loving God unlike what he is depicted in the bible and has an after life and or redemption for those who grew up in sh%tty circumstances. Those who basically never had a chance from the get go. Or maybe there is no God. I can't say. I'm not dead. No one knows other than those that died before us and if there is no afterlife, than even they are not aware.

 

You still have not responded to any of the counter points such as explaining how the bible says the earth is around 6,000 years old and stars are millions of light years away... or why we think we are the center of the universe yet there are billions and billions of planets. What happens when we find that there is other life elsewhere? What about the fact that most scientist who study things like our biology, earth, history, etc... and 90%+ don't believe in the Bible. I mean if God made is so clear than why does the evidence support that there is no Christian God?

[JtmoneyJag 25]

Did Jesus exist? I don't think anyone can dispute that only if he was your savior or not

 

What evidence is there that God does not exist?

I never said God doesn't exist. I'm speaking of the Christian God. I have no idea if he does or doesn't. No one does. That's the point. We search for answers instead of believing in something and trying to always support that argument regardless of facts presented. I prefer to be open minded and let the facts and findings speak for themself.

[ralphster 274]

Believe in something because if it's real no matter how ridiculous than you could spend eternity in hell.

 

The widespread discouragement of questions and refuting myriad scientific facts seem to be high on the conservative Christian agenda - right up there with halting immigration reform and continuing repression of women and their reproductive rights. Someone earlier mentioned God exists in faith and I believe that is correct - just like a good book or movie or anything else its just not as special if you don't suspend rational belief.

 

The bible is a great story. Full of great lessons that transcend the ages. The same is true of the Koran and the Torah. Same as the Bhagavad Gita. Can the true age of the Earth and dinosaurs be explained by the bible? No. Not for me at least. Is it possible to ascribe passages of the bible to explain away the myth of time and dinosaurs? Sure. Interpretation is the key. Some people need more (or less) explanation than others. No harm no foul. I do not judge anyone unless they judge me. Jesus is with me in his own way and I am ok with our arrangement.

 

The best and most 'true' christians I know concern themselves with their own lives and let their actions do the talking and God alone the judging. I count several of those people as close friends; they verily are the 'salt of the earth'. The hate and intolerance spewing "Christians" who picket soldier funerals and say things like "you're going to hell" and/or "I'll pray for you" can take a long walk off a short pier for all I care. When it comes down to it for me religion in general is just a way to answer the questions in life that have no answers = Where are we from? Where do we go when we die? How did we get here? Are we alone? etc etc etc

 

Higher powers? Perhaps. Random result and ongoing experiment of totally coincidental events billions of years ago? Maybe. Don't you think the Mayans and the Egyptians and the Chinese of the centuries before Jesus believed in their own gods just as devoutly and fervently? Are they all in hell?

[murf74 461]

[quote name="ralphster" post="5202306" timestamp=" When it comes down to it for me religion in general is just a way to answer the questions in life that have no answers = Where are we from? Where do we go when we die? How did we get here? Are we alone? etc etc etc

 

Here I thought science had answers for everything. And Christians were just ignorant

[jpcdds 21]

Screw the combine... If the kid can play which seemed obvious in the sec this year... He can play! Ask the Cleveland browns and the Colts if Trent Richardson's combine numbers matter now? The combine numbers give you parameters of where a guy falls... It in no way measures the type of football player he is. His 40 time may not be great but all the dude has to do is run 8 yds to get to the QB. I'm sure he can get there in plenty of time. His 17 reps obviously are low and may be the worst numbers he put up... But it doesn't measure technique or a players drive/motivation!!!!

[Grateful Parrot 0]

I'll throw my quick two cents in. I think most here commenting may or may not be talking about 2 different things. Do I believe in Christian GOD, heck yeah. Do I follow the rules of organized religions, yeah, not so much. I do follow the 10 commandments. I would love to see GOD come to earth and start slapping people around saying "I gave you 1 (one) book, how in earth do you have 14000 churches and religions believing different things from the same book??" As one poster said, interpretations. I'll go one step further, those interpretations are made after someone/many have translated the bible. Most of us in the US have no idea what the original writing was. The believe is that GOD had a hand in the translations to English, I'm not sure about that, but I don't know. But all the picketing and politics have more to do with organized religions and their agenda, then maybe just being good Christians and treating people the way they want to be treated.

 

As for the gay athlete. I don't give a crap. That is between him and GOD. I've had bunch of gay friends through the years. I don't care what you do behind the doors (unless it's criminal), just don't hit on me. Most of them understood that and went further to when we went to bars and there was another gay, he would be the one to tell the dude "don't bother with him, he's straight). No problems at all. Tax issues are a whole other deal, I'm not going into that.

[MDC 5,974]

Here I thought science had answers for everything. And Christians were just ignorant

I think the big difference is that science doesn't pretend to have the answers for everything and it doesn't feel like its in desperate competition with religion.

[JtmoneyJag 25]

Here I thought science had answers for everything. And Christians were just ignorant

No, that is the beauty of it. Discovery. If you must have faith in something just to have something to believe in because technology wise we still have more questions than answers then by all means. There are 1,000 different religions and beliefs telling them how we came to be. One is right or they are all wrong. Maybe some have something right and other things wrong. For me, religion or Christianity was limiting my way of thinking. I'm open and welcome ideas or evidence that could change the way I think.

[JtmoneyJag 25]

 

The widespread discouragement of questions and refuting myriad scientific facts seem to be high on the conservative Christian agenda - right up there with halting immigration reform and continuing repression of women and their reproductive rights. Someone earlier mentioned God exists in faith and I believe that is correct - just like a good book or movie or anything else its just not as special if you don't suspend rational belief.

 

The bible is a great story. Full of great lessons that transcend the ages. The same is true of the Koran and the Torah. Same as the Bhagavad Gita. Can the true age of the Earth and dinosaurs be explained by the bible? No. Not for me at least. Is it possible to ascribe passages of the bible to explain away the myth of time and dinosaurs? Sure. Interpretation is the key. Some people need more (or less) explanation than others. No harm no foul. I do not judge anyone unless they judge me. Jesus is with me in his own way and I am ok with our arrangement.

 

The best and most 'true' christians I know concern themselves with their own lives and let their actions do the talking and God alone the judging. I count several of those people as close friends; they verily are the 'salt of the earth'. The hate and intolerance spewing "Christians" who picket soldier funerals and say things like "you're going to hell" and/or "I'll pray for you" can take a long walk off a short pier for all I care. When it comes down to it for me religion in general is just a way to answer the questions in life that have no answers = Where are we from? Where do we go when we die? How did we get here? Are we alone? etc etc etc

 

Higher powers? Perhaps. Random result and ongoing experiment of totally coincidental events billions of years ago? Maybe. Don't you think the Mayans and the Egyptians and the Chinese of the centuries before Jesus believed in their own gods just as devoutly and fervently? Are they all in hell?

And there are few who think like you do in my experience. I respect that.

[JtmoneyJag 25]

I think the big difference is that science doesn't pretend to have the answers for everything and it doesn't feel like its in desperate competition with religion.

Great point.

[murf74 461]

I think the big difference is that science doesn't pretend to have the answers for everything and it doesn't feel like its in desperate competition with religion.

Yeah evolution is never pushed down everyone's throat

[MDC 5,974]

Yeah evolution is never pushed down everyone's throat

In science classes and stuff?

[BiPolarBear 476]

Here I thought science had answers for everything.

 

You did? Why do we need science if we already know everything?

[Frozenbeernuts 1,653]

Yeah evolution is never pushed down everyone's throat

Damn those facts getting pushed down peoples throats! I hate those people and all their stupid answers that are able to be proven. The nerve of those aholes.

[murf74 461]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/26/lobbyist-backs-off-sort-of-from-desire-to-ban-gay-nfl-players/

 

Confirms my thoughts on showers and players not vocalizing their objections to gay teammates

 

And confirms what I said about feat of media

[MDC 5,974]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/26/lobbyist-backs-off-sort-of-from-desire-to-ban-gay-nfl-players/

 

Confirms my thoughts on showers and players not vocalizing their objections to gay teammates

 

And confirms what I said about feat of media

Some guy shares your opinion, therefore you're right?

[murf74 461]

Some guy shares your opinion, therefore you're right?

Yes exactly. You gave me he// for these exact beliefs. It's almost like I wrote this article

 

And it directly contradicts your original opinion before you changed it to agree with me that players are NOT speaking their true feelings. LOL

[JtmoneyJag 25]

Simple solution. Just make all showers concealed so it won't matter who is in there. Women, men, gay men, whatever. No offense, I've never understood the reasoning of showering naked with another man in the first place especially other straight guys. And there seems to be no issue with football players completely naked in front of women reporters.

[MDC 5,974]

Yes exactly. You gave me he// for these exact beliefs. It's almost like I wrote this article

 

And it directly contradicts your original opinion before you changed it to agree with me that players are NOT speaking their true feelings. LOL

The lobbyist is a buffoon. You might be one, too.

[Grateful Parrot 0]

I've never understood the reasoning of showering naked with another man in the first place especially other straight guys.

Because you check out their junk if there's another guy with you? I have always showered to get clean and the sweat off. As did my other teammates. Maybe you think there another agenda in the showers? Do I care if it's in gym? No, because I'm not there to check out other guys.

[murf74 461]

Because you check out their junk if there's another guy with you? I have always showered to get clean and the sweat off. As did my other teammates. Maybe you think there another agenda in the showers? Do I care if it's in gym? No, because I'm not there to check out other guys.

That's point. There are guys now who will be checking out junk

 

Gonna puke now

[Mike FF Today 611]

Judge not, lest ye be judged. This has no real relevance to ff, and frankly I'd prefer your insight on the combine performances of offensive position players instead of hashing out our god or lack thereof. We'll never agree. Back to football.

 

Well said. It's time to move on from this thread which has gone off-topic.