Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Phurfur

Justina Pelletier

Recommended Posts

So does that mean your staying? If so, you're as focking stupid as we all thought. Not only crazy, but focking partially retarded. Fabulous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How does a scientist end up with the reading comprehension of a first grader?

 

 

Maybe the "scientist" is just one of his personalities. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The voices in his head tell him he's a scientist, and that we care. This guy wasn't locked up long enough. I truly believe he deserved being put away against his will. Crazy is as crazy does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So does that mean your staying? If so, you're as focking stupid as we all thought. Not only crazy, but focking partially retarded. Fabulous.

You are not improving matters on you pal. I will stay or I will not stay. It's a decision that I will make on my own, not because some mentally retarded poster like you asks me to stay or leave :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are not improving matters on you pal. I will stay or I will not stay. It's a decision that I will make on my own, not because some mentally retarded poster like you asks me to stay or leave :).

Does this mean your not my buddy :( Oh and just so you know. I don't give two shitts what you think pal. I don't do crazy, and you sir, are bat shitt crazy. Keep up the good fight pal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How does a scientist end up with the reading comprehension of a first grader?

Maybe the "scientist" is just one of his personalities. :)

Actually, that you don't see that statement as his explicit acknowledgement of bias, says more about your own mental retardation than any issues I might have :).

 

Hint for you, he used the word BELIEVE, not "BCH has made the stronger case with the known facts" -facts which are now pretty well known- "because this and that". No, he has bluntly admitted that he believes BCH quacks over the facts brought by the parents. Fox News psychiatrist in residence, who by no means is an enemy of psychiatry, had this to say after having dinner with the Pelletiers and their 3 other daughters http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/04/17/my-dinner-with-family-justina-pelletier/,

 

Now, I know that one child and not others might manifest symptoms of toxic psychological forces in a family. And I know that since this is, indeed, the United States in 2014, many people would assume the sealed record of court proceedings involving the Pelletiers will eventually be revealed and will include verifiable allegations of horrific abuse of Justina. And I know that one dinner does not constitute anything like a complete window on the souls of five members of a family – especially one in the public eye.

 

Yet, I also know that a teenager has been taken from her family. I know that she was once a figure skater and has, since her time at Children’s Hospital, been photographed in a wheelchair. I know that she reportedly passed a note to her parents recently that accused the hospital of abusing her. And I am absolutely sure that if the medical records or other evidence cannot prove beyond a doubt that Linda and Lou Pelletier placed Justina in mortal danger by virtue of their psychopathology or willful negligence as parents, Children’s Hospital should be brought to its knees by paralyzing civil suits and criminal complaints, and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts should be exposed for what it may have become: a state that, under the determined leadership of Gov. Deval Patrick (who, by the way, threatened to jail anyone driving during a snowstorm this winter), teeters on the brink of abandoning all pretense of individual freedom.

 

The old fart still "believes" that BCH is in the right and the parents are in the wrong. Obviously, a statement that says more about his own bias than about the Pelletiers :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does this mean your not my buddy :( Oh and just so you know. I don't give two shitts what you think pal. I don't do crazy, and you sir, are bat shitt crazy. Keep up the good fight pal.

All I said is that I do not take advice from a mentally retarded like you. I stand by that. If the moderator wants to see me go, that his/her prerogative, not yours :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All I said is that I do not take advice from a mentally retarded like you. I stand by that. If the moderator wants to see me go, that his/her prerogative, not yours :).

You still here? Fabulous!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All I said is that I do not take advice from a mentally retarded like you. I stand by that. If the moderator wants to see me go, that his/her prerogative, not yours :).

When you head over to footballguys, make sure that you use the same terms there. They prefer to be called mentally retarded instead of idiot or moron. HTH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you head over to footballguys, make sure that you use the same terms there. They prefer to be called mentally retarded instead of idiot or moron. HTH

:doublethumbsup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't read this thread. Cliff notes? :dunno:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't read this thread. Cliff notes? :dunno:

This Psych guy has had a bad experience with abuse by the psychiatric community and has done extensive research on abuse in the system.

 

 

Penultimate revealed he has the ability to diagnose people from thousands of miles away. He diagnosed the parents as crazy because they want their daughter back, and chose to accept the recommendation of the Dr that has been treating her over the guy at BCH.

 

He also diagnosed the sister with all kinds of syndromes and afflictions off a quote in an article where she said their home was a loving home.

 

Newbie and his crew of girls predictably have attacked the new guy with middle school insults and offered nothing of value.

 

Repeat for however many pages this thing is....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mister Frank threw the insults first. If he didn't want to be insulted, he should not have insulted first. Not very complicated, really :).

The point is that you were throwing them around right away then cried when they came back to you and you stated you didnt do name calling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't read this thread. Cliff notes? :dunno:

Take what gp said...then realize that the opposite is likely true..but he is still holding on to thes psych guy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't read this thread. Cliff notes? :dunno:

It's effectively like just about every thread here. A reasonably intelligent exchange about a current event was taking place, with the usually trolls trying to derail it. Then a new guy with an ax to grind against psychiatry joined the fray, inundating us with drivel to support his agenda while ignoring those who tried to remain on topic. As people became tired of him, it's degraded to a bunch of name-calling. And the trolls continue trolling.

 

If you read the long creationism thread a few years back, substitute IMMensamind with psychsurvivor and you'll get the flavor of his style.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't read this thread. Cliff notes? :dunno:

Oh, and Sho Nuff has had Penultimate's cawk in his mouth for 22 pages. No diagnosis from Pen yet on what syndrome that is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This Psych guy has had a bad experience with abuse by the psychiatric community and has done extensive research on abuse in the system.

Penultimate revealed he has the ability to diagnose people from thousands of miles away. He diagnosed the parents as crazy because they want their daughter back, and chose to accept the recommendation of the Dr that has been treating her over the guy at BCH.

He also diagnosed the sister with all kinds of syndromes and afflictions off a quote in an article where she said their home was a loving home.

Newbie and his crew of girls predictably have attacked the new guy with middle school insults and offered nothing of value.

Repeat for however many pages this thing is....

Obviously, I do not know the history of these forums because I found it googling about Justina Pelletier (it shows in the first or second page when you restrict the results to the last 24 hours), but I like the description

 

"Newbie and his crew of girls predictably have attacked the new guy with middle school insults and offered nothing of value"

 

Because that is precisely how I felt with the people here who instead of addressing my arguments -and statements by the leaders of American psychiatry on the lack of validity of the DSM labels-, directly started to call me all sort of names and speculate that I could be locked up somewhere or that I was thinking about suing somebody or applying to become a government parasite. "Crew of middle school girls" is a good description of these people :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The point is that you were throwing them around right away then cried when they came back to you and you stated you didnt do name calling.

Actually that is not true. Every time that I have called names/insulted somebody in this thread was a defensive move (ie, I was retaliating to an aggression). You can check that out for yourself :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's effectively like just about every thread here. A reasonably intelligent exchange about a current event was taking place, with the usually trolls trying to derail it. Then a new guy with an ax to grind against psychiatry joined the fray, inundating us with drivel to support his agenda while ignoring those who tried to remain on topic. As people became tired of him, it's degraded to a bunch of name-calling. And the trolls continue trolling.

 

If you read the long creationism thread a few years back, substitute IMMensamind with psychsurvivor and you'll get the flavor of his style.

I do not know about that thread, but the way I see it you have this pen guy who thinks he is smarter than everybody else (for some reason unknown to me because his arguments have been very poor intellectually speaking) who spewed 20 pages of nonsense until he finally admitted that his opinions were based on (capitals mine),

 

"It's a lot easier FOR ME to believe in a bad set of parents"

 

In other words, he trusts that MD degree holders at Boston Children's Hospital - one of Harvard's teaching facilities- can do no wrong. That in spite of examples like Dr Joseph Biederman, inventor of "Pediatric Bipolar Disorder" while on the payroll of Johnson & Johnson, who was later disciplined by Harvard for its undisclosed conflicts of interests http://blogs.nature.com/news/2011/07/harvard_scientists_disciplined.html . Dr Joseph Biederman has written research papers with Dr DeMaso, the director of psychiatry at Boston Children's Hospitals, aka BCH. The BCH psychologist that diagnosed Justina with Somatic Symptom Disorder, http://connects.catalyst.harvard.edu/Profiles/display/Person/58289 , has several ongoing research studies destined to prove that Somatic Symptom Disorder -ie, "it's all in your head"- explains 50% of all symptoms presented by children/teenagers. No kidding :).

 

So the old fart pen thinks that in spite of this, BCH doctors are gods who cannot do any wrong, because he says so :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The crazy guy is frothing at the mouth, and Googleballz is defending him.

 

EXCELLENT!

 

 

At least he has one guy in his corner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually that is not true. Every time that I have called names/insulted somebody in this thread was a defensive move (ie, I was retaliating to an aggression). You can check that out for yourself :).

You are full of crap. And the reason people quit trying with you is that you proved to be an unreasonable and uncivil person and it was pointless tring to have a conversation with a person like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not know about that thread, but the way I see it you have this pen guy who thinks he is smarter than everybody else (for some reason unknown to me because his arguments have been very poor intellectually speaking) who spewed 20 pages of nonsense until he finally admitted that his opinions were based on (capitals mine),

 

"It's a lot easier FOR ME to believe in a bad set of parents"

 

In other words, he trusts that MD degree holders at Boston Children's Hospital - one of Harvard's teaching facilities- can do no wrong. That in spite of examples like Dr Joseph Biederman, inventor of "Pediatric Bipolar Disorder" while on the payroll of Johnson & Johnson, who was later disciplined by Harvard for its undisclosed conflicts of interests http://blogs.nature.com/news/2011/07/harvard_scientists_disciplined.html . Dr Joseph Biederman has written research papers with Dr DeMaso, the director of psychiatry at Boston Children's Hospitals, aka BCH. The BCH psychologist that diagnosed Justina with Somatic Symptom Disorder, http://connects.catalyst.harvard.edu/Profiles/display/Person/58289 , has several ongoing research studies destined to prove that Somatic Symptom Disorder -ie, "it's all in your head"- explains 50% of all symptoms presented by children/teenagers. No kidding :).

 

So the old fart pen thinks that in spite of this, BCH doctors are gods who cannot do any wrong, because he says so :).

More lies.
A. Pen has never claimed or acted as if he was smarter than everyone. That would be you...despite your numerous mistakes and inability to read what people have actually said.
B. Your last line...you and go keep repeating that lie hoping it will stick...despite bein called out on it numwrous times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are full of crap. And the reason people quit trying with you is that you proved to be an unreasonable and uncivil person and it was pointless tring to have a conversation with a person like that.

I must note that you have failed to provide a single instance where I have insulted/called names somebody preemptively. The exchange on this page is an example. You accuse me of calling people names without a reason, I ask you to find an instance where that happened and since you were unable to find any, you replied back calling me names. This was a self explanatory exercise and reinforces the statement that you belong to a "crowd of middle school aged girls" :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Korson has seen Justina once - according to her sister, he wants to see her every week or two, but DCF is refusing to let her be seen more than every six weeks.

 

What, exactly, are you envisioning her parents having done that could possibly be more harmful to Justina than being locked up for more than a year? They have not been charged with anything, so presumably neither Children's nor DCF think the parents fed her poison. From everything I have read over the last few months, starting with the article in the Boston Globe, the only thing they have accused the parents of is taking her to too many doctors, consenting to unnecessary surgery, and making her symptoms worse by their mere presence. Since mito is often present in more than one family member, it would have been neglectful for the parents not to have taken Justina to a mito expert when she started exhibiting symptoms characteristic of that disease. One would have to have even less confidence in the medical profession than I do to think that surgeons at Tufts are so naive and gullible that they would perform cecostomy surgery without corroborating evidence that it was necessary. Anyone who has children knows that often injured or sick kids can hold it together until their parents arrive and then they fall apart. Geez, when I was sick as a dog with pneumonia as an adult, I wanted nothing more than to have my mother show up and take care of me as if I were a kid again - and she had been dead for years.

 

I know too many people with rare, or sometimes not so rare, diseases who have been diagnosed with somatoform disorder, either formally or informally. The definition in the DSM V is so broad as to be totally useless. How on earth can one person judge whether another's pain or concern is "excessive." Hospitals try to measure pain by asking patients to rate their pain on a 0-10 scale, but even that is very subjective. One kid stopped chatting with her friends on the phone just long enough to tell the nurse that her pain was an 8, whereas my family member in the next bed would have ranked her pain at 2 or 3 if she were feeling well enough to chat. Even if you could independently judge how much pain someone was feeling, how would you determine what the "right" amount of pain was for a given disease process or injury?

 

There has been increasing evidence over the past few years that SSRI's are neither as safe nor effective as the pharmaceutical companies would like you to think they are. And no, I have not depended on articles in the media - I have spent a fair amount of time on PubMed.

I don't know how frequently Korson sees Justina. But one visit should be enough to start her on whatever medical course he recommends. The problem is the diagnosis is still in question, as nobody has pushed to perform one of the most useful diagnostic tests to confirm or refute his suspicion (perhaps because non-invasive tests do not support it) and she has remained on her vitamin/antioxidant cocktail (the mainstay of medically treating mitochondrial disease) throughout this ordeal.

 

We agree that institutionalizing Justina is not the answer. She needs a supportive home, probably a foster one if her parents' behaviors remain suspicious for MCD.

 

What could they do worse than a foster home? Push for a procedure or medical therapy which could kill her? One of the articles linked in this thread quotes a statistic than one in ten MCA abusers die as a result of their parents' actions. Do you think her current situation portends a 10% mortality? What is the natural history of mitochondrial and somatoform diseases in any event?

 

The sword cuts both ways with obscure diagnoses. Often they are missed, and symptoms are "all in the head" of the patients in whom the real diagnosis is overlooked. But once the diagnosis is "made", those without specific expertise of the diagnosis, including those who perform invasive procedures and prescribe meds, may not question that it may be incorrect. This leads to unnecessary testing/treatment with inherent risk for something going wrong. And sometimes patients or their proxy intentionally promote a false diagnosis, doctor shopping until they can get somebody to comply with their desires.

 

Given the propensity to believe an initial diagnosis made by an "expert" (anchoring bias), there must have been red flags in this case which promoted the cascade of events leading to Justina's current situation. Thus far, BCH and the courts believe they are suggestive of medical child abuse. Her family and Tufts' doctors believe otherwise. Attempting to definitively diagnose her mitochondrial disease would probably support the cause of the latter group. Absent objective proof of her diagnosis, her plight will ultimately be determined by whose version of her condition is more convincing to the courts.

 

Without going too much off topic, treating pain is very problematic because of its subjective nature. But there are clues when it is less severe than advertised - nobody should be able to carry on a normal conversation with 10/10 discomfort. But physicians are trained to err on the side of believing their patients, which often leads to overtreatment. From an ABCNews article 3 years ago:

The United States makes up only 4.6 percent of the world's population, but consumes 80 percent of its opioids -- and 99 percent of the world's hydrocodone, the opiate that is in Vicodin.

Plenty of posters here have suggested they've used narcotics recreationally, and at least one of them brags about tricking the "stupid" doctors. So hopefully you understand there is another side to quantifying and treating pain.

 

SSRIs are not a panacea, and may be less effective than originally advertised. But they still are useful for some patients - maybe this won't be the case in a decade or so, but I'll wager otherwise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SSRIs are not a panacea, and may be less effective than originally advertised. But they still are useful for some patients - maybe this won't be the case in a decade or so, but I'll wager otherwise.

 

I must note that defenders of homeopathic medicine and acupuncture make exactly the same point: they still are useful for some patients. I don't think I am going to see you any time soon defending complementary and alternative medicine with the same zeal you defend the psychiatric nut jobs :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must note that you have failed to provide a single instance where I have insulted/called names somebody preemptively. The exchange on this page is an example. You accuse me of calling people names without a reason, I ask you to find an instance where that happened and since you were unable to find any, you replied back calling me names. This was a self explanatory exercise and reinforces the statement that you belong to a "crowd of middle school aged girls" :).

Sorry, not searching a 22 pager on my phone. You are the type to deny the truth anyway. So bite me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We've progressed to the point of using bolded text.

 

 

YIPPEE!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Absent objective proof of her diagnosis, her plight will ultimately be determined by whose version of her condition is more convincing to the courts.

 

Actually, and I have pointed this out to you several times, under both the US Constitution and Massachusetts' own laws, as famed attorney Alan Dershowitz has explained, the courts DO NOT HAVE ANY PREROGATIVE WHATSOEVER to intervene unless they can prove that Justina was harmed by the medical treatment received at Tufts, something that has not happened because otherwise either the parents, the Tufts doctors or both would have been charged with the crime of causing harm to a child. In a dispute of diagnoses, neither BCH doctors nor the courts have the final say. The final say is with the parents.

 

Still, you want to subvert, as you have repeatedly done, our legal process, to defend BCH's actions. You are a pathetic old fart :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, not searching a 22 pager on my phone. You are the type to deny the truth anyway. So bite me.

My challenge to you stands. If you are going to accuse me of preemptively calling people names, I hope you have some evidence to back that up :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My challenge to you stands. If you are going to accuse me of preemptively calling people names, I hope you have some evidence to back that up :).

And my claim stands and im simply not going to do a damn thing to right now or maybe ever. Done it too many times with people just like you. I 100% guarantee you wouldnt admit it evenin the face of proof.
So again...bite me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to know how CuckooForCocoaPuffs knew that Pen is from Hawaii. He claims he is "new" here, but I don't think it was ever mentioned in this thread.

 

Hmm...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to know how CuckooForCocoaPuffs knew that Pen is from Hawaii. He claims he is "new" here, but I don't think it was ever mentioned in this thread.

 

Hmm...

He is just that smart. Us useful idiots wouldnt understand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And my claim stands and im simply not going to do a damn thing to right now or maybe ever. Done it too many times with people just like you. I 100% guarantee you wouldnt admit it evenin the face of proof.

 

So again...bite me.

In the US, something that old fart pen has forgotten, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, not the accused.

 

If you are accusing me of something like that, I would hope you have some evidence. You don't, and that's your and the "crowd of middle school aged girls" problem. You call names instinctively and you think that everybody else does the same. Well, I don't. I ended calling you (and others) names after being repeatedly attacked :). In your case, if I remember it well, it was your insinuation that I had been locked up under the "dangerousness" standard, which of course is an ignorant statement unaware of the differences between the US and Europe when it comes to legal standards for civil commitments. When I have tried to enlighten you and the others, you have doubled down your insults. Pathetic; it speaks very poorly of the intellectual quality of you and your crowd of girls :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He is just that smart. Us useful idiots wouldnt understand.

Pen mentioned it in this thread that he is a retired MD who lives in Hawaii. Not only I am smarter than you guys, I have also better memory (that in spite of the damage that SSRIs did to my short term memory :) ).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair... we did indeed start with the insults first. Of course that was after we found out how crazy he really was and there was no reasoning with him. But he threw the first punch with Pen and Pen even asked him to stop. :dunno:

 

And I've been accused of saying something insulting about Tom Insel, which I haven't been able to find evidence of. I guess his memory isn't as good as he thinks. I'd rank it right up there with his reading comprehension- which is piss poor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair... we did indeed start with the insults first.

Good! Honesty is always the best starting point :).

 

And I've been accused of saying something insulting about Tom Insel, which I haven't been able to find evidence of. I guess his memory isn't as good as he thinks. I'd rank it right up there with his reading comprehension- which is piss poor.

 

Here it comes,

 

I take issue with that particular statement from your quote. I fail to see how someone who is living with delusions and hallucinations can ever be considered normal funticioning.

 

You said that the director of the National Institute of Mental Health, Tom Insel, was basically saying nonsense here http://www.nimh.nih.gov/about/director/2013/antipsychotics-taking-the-long-view.shtml and you think that it is not insulting, really?

 

Think about it. You are the director the nation's largest research institute on so called "mental health" with a budget of 1.5 billion dollars. You are discussing evidence that shows that the current assumptions of psychiatry are wrong, including that indeed, there are numerous cases of people "living with delusions and hallucinations" who are functional, like

 

or the hundreds or thousands of members of http://www.intervoiceonline.org/ . Then some anonymous poster tells you that you don't know what you are talking about because "her mother this, her mother that". You don't see that insulting, really ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to know how CuckooForCocoaPuffs knew that Pen is from Hawaii. He claims he is "new" here, but I don't think it was ever mentioned in this thread.

 

Hmm...

He also thinks I'm old and retired. He may be confusing me with Phurfur?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good! Honesty is always the best starting point :).Here it comes,You said that the director of the National Institute of Mental Health, Tom Insel, was basically saying nonsense here http://www.nimh.nih.gov/about/director/2013/antipsychotics-taking-the-long-view.shtml and you think that it is not insulting, really?

Think about it. You are the director the nation's largest research institute on so called "mental health" with a budget of 1.5 billion dollars. You are discussing evidence that shows that the current assumptions of psychiatry are wrong, including that indeed, there are numerous cases of people "living with delusions and hallucinations" who are functional, like

or the hundreds or thousands of members of http://www.intervoiceonline.org/ . Then some anonymous poster tells you that you don't know what you are talking about because "her mother this, her mother that". You don't see that insulting, really ?

OMG... You've got to be kidding, right?!?!?!? That's the insult? I'd be laughing my ass off, but somehow I think you're ACTUALLY SERIOUS! :wacko:

 

And it's a far cry from what you said I said which is:

If you go back to the history of the discussion you'll see OldMaid saying something along the lines "whoever said that remaining on medication long-term might impede a full return to wellness" EXPLETIVE/DISRESPECTFUL epithet.

You should take your ball and go home. Oh wait... You can't because you're locked up in a mental ward. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He also thinks I'm old and retired. He may be confusing me with Phurfur?

It might come down to what "is" "is". I doubt that you are retired at "50", honestly. So yeah, I do think that you are an old fart with the intellectual sophistication of a middle school aged girl :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×