Trading future picks- How do avoid this scenario?

[pipeman 16]

Looking for a little insight to possibly prevent what is currently going on in our league. I'm as guilty as most everyone else in the league, but it's gotten to the point where I think change is needed.

 

This league began about 14 years ago. 12 teams, 3 division winners + wild card into the playoffs. 5 year runs of 3 man keeper PPR. From the beginning, we stated that we wanted little commissioner interference, and that teams could trade players and picks, as long as no collusion was present, and futures could not extend past the following season. The cost of the league is $300 per team, plus $5 for any transaction- not breaking the bank, but making sure that guys were trying to field a quality team every year.

 

The first 10 years of the league, very few trades involving the following years picks. But this last cycle has been nuts. At yesterday's draft, ADP and Charles were both traded for multiple early picks next year. Other big trades went down, and now once again, there's about 5 out of the 12 teams that are unbelievably stacked, and everyone else will play the waivers and trade to the big 5 for anything next year. Because you only keep 3 into the following year, a hell of a lot of big names get thrown back into the mix. The theory has now become- tank one year to be one of the monsters the next.

 

As I said, I'm guilty as anyone. After injuries lead to an 0-4 start last year, I preceded to sell everything I could get my hands on for 2014 picks. As a result, I basically finished the 13 round draft after the third round (2 1st, 4 2nd, 6 3rd, plus first pick of 4th). Although I love my team, it just doesn't seem like this is how it should be, but when we discuss how to rectify the issue, we can never come up with a consensus. It's apparent that the majority of the league doesn't want to completely eliminate futures trading, but are ok with some restrictions.

 

Anyone else ever have to create rules regarding future draft picks? If so, I'd like to know what was implemented, and whether the changes were good for the league.

[trucarl 1]

Please correct me if im wrong, but this is what I gather from this..

 

If I have Adrian Peterson and my team sucks, I can trade him for a 1st and 2nd round pick next year. And then when next year comes and I have the first pick, I can just draft Adrian Peterson again AND have an extra first and 2nd?

[pipeman 16]

Please correct me if im wrong, but this is what I gather from this..

 

If I have Adrian Peterson and my team sucks, I can trade him for a 1st and 2nd round pick next year. And then when next year comes and I have the first pick, I can just draft Adrian Peterson again AND have an extra first and 2nd?

Not exactly. Every team keeps three players from previous year, no restrictions. Peterson was traded for a 7th this year, plus 1-4 for 5-8 next year. The team that traded for ADP carried Manning, Forte, and Dez, and drafted Cruz. Nice starting lineup.

[WhiteWonder 2,201]

for starters, if you are concerned that a team is going to mortgage its future to win now and then bail on the league, you should institute that in order to trade future draft picks, 50% of next years league fee must be paid up front. This will deter anyone from jumping ship and make it easier to find a replacement owner in the event anyone does bail. That replacement owner would only have to pay half entry fee to join the league which will be nice considering the team they take over would be left without picks.

 

if the bigger concern is bad teams dumping their stars for future picks, I have dealt with this issue in a number of leagues. You can still institute the 50% entry fee rule but other than that, its hard to tell an owner that they are not allowed to play for the future. The real issue comes if they are only trading their studs away to certain other owners. Then it becomes a potential issue of collusion. At this point, the best thing to do is to roll up the league trade deadline to something early enough that most teams would still be alive. First week in November or something.

[We Tigers 71]

Here's a question: you say that ADP and Charles were traded at the draft. Does that mean that someone had ADP, Player 2, and Player 3 as keepers, and then had 2 keepers leftover? Or are you letting teams trade from their full rosters, then declare keepers afterward? Tweaking that somehow might prevent some of these draft day mega trades.

[pipeman 16]

for starters, if you are concerned that a team is going to mortgage its future to win now and then bail on the league, you should institute that in order to trade future draft picks, 50% of next years league fee must be paid up front. This will deter anyone from jumping ship and make it easier to find a replacement owner in the event anyone does bail. That replacement owner would only have to pay half entry fee to join the league which will be nice considering the team they take over would be left without picks.

 

if the bigger concern is bad teams dumping their stars for future picks, I have dealt with this issue in a number of leagues. You can still institute the 50% entry fee rule but other than that, its hard to tell an owner that they are not allowed to play for the future. The real issue comes if they are only trading their studs away to certain other owners. Then it becomes a potential issue of collusion. At this point, the best thing to do is to roll up the league trade deadline to something early enough that most teams would still be alive. First week in November or something.

 

No issues with bailing. Only two ownership changes in 14 years. As for the trade deadline issue, no trades for picks after Week 8. We've discussed being able to only own 4 picks outside of your own, but was met with resistance. Never came to vote,

[pipeman 16]

Here's a question: you say that ADP and Charles were traded at the draft. Does that mean that someone had ADP, Player 2, and Player 3 as keepers, and then had 2 keepers leftover? Or are you letting teams trade from their full rosters, then declare keepers afterward? Tweaking that somehow might prevent some of these draft day mega trades.

Owners must declare their three keepers one week before draft. Only "kept" players are able to be traded. ADP owner, who won the SB last year, received a 7th this year to keep numbers equal.

[LegendoftheFall 3]

So it looks like everyone liked how your team turned out and are now following your lead. Its the only way they can compete with you. Your whole team was set by the 3rd round? They can either play out the year for 2nd place, or try to build a power house themselves.

 

 

 

I dont see any way around it. It seems like you've got everything in place that needs to be-early trade deadline, 3 keepers, trading picks only 1 year in advance.

 

I just dont understand the fun in tanking a whole year, just to be competetive the following year. Might take a couple of years, but people will probably figure that out, especially when you tank a year, then still dont win the following year.

[WhiteWonder 2,201]

Tanking a year to be competitive the following year can backfire big time. You assure yourself of nothing one year and can't ever guarantee anything the next, no matter how many picks you aquire.

[pipeman 16]

So it looks like everyone liked how your team turned out and are now following your lead. Its the only way they can compete with you. Your whole team was set by the 3rd round? They can either play out the year for 2nd place, or try to build a power house themselves.

 

 

 

I dont see any way around it. It seems like you've got everything in place that needs to be-early trade deadline, 3 keepers, trading picks only 1 year in advance.

 

I just dont understand the fun in tanking a whole year, just to be competetive the following year. Might take a couple of years, but people will probably figure that out, especially when you tank a year, then still dont win the following year.

My team is in my sig, and I'm probably the 4th best team on paper. At $300 a pop, plus an addition $60-100 in waiver/trade costs, you'd think that would be a reason to not tank, but it didn't stop anything. I justified what I did because of my bad start and solid roll package last year. I just can't see see dropping $700 to $800 every two years playing the good year/ bad year scenario, in hopes of winning the $2500 SB payout...

[WhiteWonder 2,201]

My team is in my sig, and I'm probably the 4th best team on paper. At $300 a pop, plus an addition $60-100 in waiver/trade costs, you'd think that would be a reason to not tank, but it didn't stop anything. I justified what I did because of my bad start and solid roll package last year. I just can't see see dropping $700 to $800 every two years playing the good year/ bad year scenario, in hopes of winning the $2500 SB payout...

 

wait, thats your team with all the extra 1st 2nd and 3rd round picks?

 

yikes.

 

its a nice team but i think it shows why tanking in a keeper league doesn't pay off. you ended up with a good looking redraft team in a keeper league

[lostsoulny 2]

Why not limit trading draft picks to the off season? This will prevent a team from having a fire sale mid season.

[Flgatorguy87 160]

Why not limit trading draft picks to the off season? This will prevent a team from having a fire sale mid season.

This. Or make the trade deadline really early in the season (like week 6) with the new "trade season" not opening until the day after the draft the next year.

[MTSkiBum 1,602]

Its a keeper league, not a dynasty league. You should not be able to trade future draft picks.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Its a keeper league, not a dynasty league. You should not be able to trade future draft picks.

I said this already and was shot down by a few of the owners in our keeper league. This was the reason i thought it was foolish. Of course some owners will tell you their league doesnt operate out of control, but other leagues will eventually fall into this rhythm.

 

Edit: those owners said trades were allowed in their other keeper leagues, not ours.

[Donkey 34]

2 solutions:

 

You have a $2500 payout for the winner? If so, reduce that and spread out prizes for 1st through 4th (or at least 3rd). This changes the incentive of tanking a season to try to win it next year or this year.

 

Increase keepers to maybe 6. This devalues future picks because you're starting in the 7th round instead of the 4th.

 

No need to limit any trading. In fact, teams should be able to trade their "extra" keepers at any time during the offseason whether they plan on keeping them or not.

[WhiteWonder 2,201]

I said this already and was shot down by a few of the owners in our keeper league. This was the reason i thought it was foolish. Of course some owners will tell you their league doesnt operate out of control, but other leagues will eventually fall into this rhythm.

 

Edit: those owners said trades were allowed in their other keeper leagues, not ours.

 

im sure i discussed it with you. i don't think keepers HAVE to allow owners to trade picks but its something we always did in the keeper I run, going into its 9th season. The only issue we ever ran into were two buddies who would constantly go to each other for trades at the deadline where 1 guy was usually out of it and he would trade a decent piece for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. A lot of us felt it was collusion because it seemed pre determined who would be trading with who. The trades themselves felt fine but the offers didn't feel as if they were "available to all league members" so to speak.

 

the only thing we did to combat this was to have an early trade deadline

 

the league runs fine though. even the guys who are 'out of it' don't usually want to part with any of their 3 best keeper choices

 

and allowing pick trading makes for fun off seasons. owners with crap keepers could float a 3rd rounder out there to a team with an abundance of keeper quality players. win-win

[Flgatorguy87 160]

 

im sure i discussed it with you. i don't think keepers HAVE to allow owners to trade picks but its something we always did in the keeper I run, going into its 9th season. The only issue we ever ran into were two buddies who would constantly go to each other for trades at the deadline where 1 guy was usually out of it and he would trade a decent piece for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. A lot of us felt it was collusion because it seemed pre determined who would be trading with who. The trades themselves felt fine but the offers didn't feel as if they were "available to all league members" so to speak.

 

the only thing we did to combat this was to have an early trade deadline

 

the league runs fine though. even the guys who are 'out of it' don't usually want to part with any of their 3 best keeper choices

 

and allowing pick trading makes for fun off seasons. owners with crap keepers could float a 3rd rounder out there to a team with an abundance of keeper quality players. win-win

This describes my keeper league perfectly last year with a guy not giving the same access to his players and saying he can determine who he trades with any way he wants... He says it's not collusion. I say it is. So we will move the deadline.

 

Guy admitted in the of season to another member that he was tired of seeing myself and 2 other members win every year. .. Which is the last 5 years between the three of us. Called us the Yankees "and nobody likes the Yankees" were his words.

[$epphori$ 118]

Our league has been running since 1995 and we can trade picks. But you can only trade 2 draft picks per season.

 

Also you HAVE to keep 3 players...and can keep as many as 4

 

If you opt to not keep 4 you go into a prelim round along with all the other teams only keeping 3

 

You should limit the # of picks each team can trade and enforce each team to carry solid keepers into the next season

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Our league has been running since 1995 and we can trade picks. But you can only trade 2 draft picks per season.

 

Also you HAVE to keep 3 players...and can keep as many as 4

 

If you opt to not keep 4 you go into a prelim round along with all the other teams only keeping 3

 

You should limit the # of picks each team can trade and enforce each team to carry solid keepers into the next season

Good ideas

[Smileseers 54]

I've been the commish of a 3 keeper league since 2000. We do not allow future picks to be traded before the 4th round.

 

I've been in a 4 keeper league since 1992, and we do not allow future picks to be traded before the 5th round.

[$epphori$ 118]

Our league has been running since 1995 and we can trade picks. But you can only trade 2 draft picks per season.

 

Also you HAVE to keep 3 players...and can keep as many as 4

 

If you opt to not keep 4 you go into a prelim round along with all the other teams only keeping 3

 

You should limit the # of picks each team can trade and enforce each team to carry solid keepers into the next season

 

We can only trade picks for the next season too

other things I want to add is we can not keep more than 2 from RB/WR/TE position...(can only keep 1 QB)

Rookies can NOT be taken in the prelim draft either,

This makes 1st and 2nd round picks even more valuable.

and owners a reluctant to let go of an early pick.

that prelim round is only for teams that need a 4th keeper.

Also, when you enforce teams to keep at least 3 players they must be solid players, this way the first round of the following years there is no Adrian Peterson, McCoy, or Dez Bryant to be had in the draft. Our teams hold onto guys who are injured for the following season. And if teams in our league can not keep up and maintain a solid team with at least 3 keepers.(for two years in a row) we vote them out of the league. We call these guys inactive owners. We have a board of 5 solid owners who vote on anything and everything put forth by any league member. (for example: if someone is suspicious of a trade..all he needs to do is call the commish and he sends it to the board, it is investigated for collusion and voted on with those 5 guys. If one of the board members is involved in the trade, he is replaced by another league member to vote on it. This way it takes the heat and responsibility off the commish and also prevents any favoritism.

[swirvenirvin 25]

for starters, if you are concerned that a team is going to mortgage its future to win now and then bail on the league, you should institute that in order to trade future draft picks, 50% of next years league fee must be paid up front. This will deter anyone from jumping ship and make it easier to find a replacement owner in the event anyone does bail. That replacement owner would only have to pay half entry fee to join the league which will be nice considering the team they take over would be left without picks.

 

if the bigger concern is bad teams dumping their stars for future picks, I have dealt with this issue in a number of leagues. You can still institute the 50% entry fee rule but other than that, its hard to tell an owner that they are not allowed to play for the future. The real issue comes if they are only trading their studs away to certain other owners. Then it becomes a potential issue of collusion. At this point, the best thing to do is to roll up the league trade deadline to something early enough that most teams would still be alive. First week in November or something.

Yes, I insist that if you are trading future years draft picks that you pay for next years fees so you dont leave.

 

We too have started doing this (and yes I also started most of it) but it hasnt gone too badly as you put it where people are not even playing at the beg of the draft and selling everything right away. It usually happens before the trade deadline.

 

2 yrs ago some guy sold all his draft picks for 2013. He ended up winning in 2012 and came in dead last in 2013.

 

Now to incentivise people during the regular season we pay out high weeks for the 13 regualr season games.

 

We also have a loser bowl, where you PAY money if you are the ultimate loser.

 

So 6 teams make playoffs 2 do nothing, and 4 worst teams move on in their own playoff where the loser moves on. You lose that then you pay an extra set amount. For a $300 league I would make the $75....

[$epphori$ 118]

Do not allow draft pick trades after trade deadline...no trades in offseason either...we open trading on draft day...and it goes to trade deadline week 10 or 11

[Stewburtx8 67]

Honestly, in a 3 man keeper league, I don't see why a league would allow teams to trade future picks. A 3 keeper league is just not THAT much different than a redraft league, and I know I would NEVER play in a redraft league that allowed trading of future picks.

 

In a dynasty league or heavy keeper league (at least 7+ keepers in my opinion), then I think trading future year's picks is perfectly acceptable and encouraged. As White Wonder said, just make sure everyone pays 50% of next year's league fee if they trade any future picks.