Josh Gordon Availability & Equal Opportunity

[Antiramie 50]

A few years ago my league departed from no waivers to gametime waivers due to the free-for-all that took place and the disparity of opportunity to acquire players (people that had to work on Sunday, didn't have smartphones, etc). We felt everyone should have the same chance of acquiring someone, or at least a regulated, revolving order that waivers provided.

 

Fast-forward to the night it was announced that Gordon and Welker could possibly be reinstated. No one in my league had drafted Gordon nor rostered him at any point of this fantasy season. It's safe to say everyone in our league figured he would be out for the year. When the news broke, another league member and I found out immediately and he ended up picking up Gordon first. I'm still mad at myself for not pulling the trigger quicker, but the more I think about it the more I feel that mistake may be irrelevant.

 

The real question is, with an almost unheard of situation like Gordon's, where a player is almost certainly ruled out for the season barring an unforeseen or unthinkable circumstance, should his availability (FA) be acceptable where the first person to hear the news essentially is the first to get him? Most of our league didn't hear the news until the next day and had no chance of acquiring him. I understand that those that are persistent and pay attention the most are rewarded better with this game, but where do you draw the line with something so out of the blue like this?

[skoal2k4 15]

yes... why wouldn't it?

[Antiramie 50]

Because it's like Calvin Johnson supposedly breaking his back and being out for the season, someone dropping him, and then after he clears waivers an announcement is made that they read the wrong person's x-ray and he'll be back in a week. And the first person to hear the news gets him. It's a situation without precedent. The entire purpose of utilizing waivers is to give everyone a fair chance of acquiring players throughout the year. 99.9% of acquisitions are made because of injuries in-game or stemming from a game and not some random league rule change out of nowhere.

[skoal2k4 15]

if it happens outside of the waiver period, then it's first come, first serve... I don't understand why that's a problem?

[Antiramie 50]

Because nothing of this magnitude (talent-wise) ever happens outside of the waiver period so abruptly or without notice (ie injury during game). It'd be like Barry Sanders unretiring during his prime and because it's a Wednesday the first person to hear the news gets him. The whole point of waivers is to prevent people from gaining an unfair advantage simply based on convenience. Usually those situations occur during games when drastic things happen (injury, suspensions, etc). This is the exception to the norm because it happened without notice not during a game, yet it creates the same inequality.

[skoal2k4 15]

The Ray Rice situation happened without notice... what is your solution for the Rice owner in your league? I'm sure the owner was only counting on him being out 2 games... seems unfair to me

[kilroy69 994]

Unless the ww process is voted upon and everyone agrees to change the policy it needs to stay the same. You simply can not change the game once it is started.

[mobb_deep 917]

I think I know the issue here...

 

AuntAmie =

GuyWhoGotGordon =

[skoal2k4 15]

Unless the ww process is voted upon and everyone agrees to change the policy it needs to stay the same. You simply can not change the game once it is started.

 

but... but... it's unprecedented! And because I didn't get him, I think it's only fair the other person shouldn't have him either!

[Antiramie 50]

Why is it so crazy to want to make an amendment for an unprecedented event? It's the reason laws are rewritten. Losing players to injury or suspension happens all the time. Having a 1st/2nd round pick miraculously come back doesn't. Like I said, the purpose of waivers is to provide opportunity parity for game-changing occurrences. So just because the news broke during FA period instead of waiver period the purpose of the waiver implementation should be ignored?

 

Edit: We can prepare for and follow practices, press conferences, medical exams, test results, etc during the FA period. We can't for a completely random event like what happened. So why should it be lumped in with the other occurrences that happen during the FA period?

[kilroy69 994]

The rules are there for a reason. Its fine if you ALL agree that it has to be changed. However you cant change it if one owner complains. Which one will.

[GS3K 12]

Listen guy, you all made it so anybody could acquire a player at any time.

 

Someone acquired a player at any time.

 

Open and shut, someone could have picked him up at anytime or did like I did and rostered him in all of my leagues (I drafted him in two and immediately picked him up when someone dropped him in a third) but you didn't. You all had plenty of chances to add him to your roster and you didn't, that's that.

[skinsrule05 30]

if it happens outside of the waiver period, then it's first come, first serve... I don't understand why that's a problem?

The problem is antiram wasn't the first one to get him.

[jls8421 3]

Two of the leagues I'm in do blind free agent bidding for free agents. It closes Weds night. We don't allow free agent pick ups outside of the blind bidding. Both leagues have a $120 (real money) season limit. Everyone has the same shot at available players.

 

One league has a deep bench and I drafted Gordon in the 14th with full intention of keeping him next year. The other league, no one drafted him and I expect it's going to be the Gordon sweepstakes.

 

It'll be interesting to see what he goes for.

[Antiramie 50]

Two of the leagues I'm in do blind free agent bidding for free agents. It closes Weds night. We don't allow free agent pick ups outside of the blind bidding. Both leagues have a $120 (real money) season limit. Everyone has the same shot at available players.

 

One league has a deep bench and I drafted Gordon in the 14th with full intention of keeping him next year. The other league, no one drafted him and I expect it's going to be the Gordon sweepstakes.

 

It'll be interesting to see what he goes for.

 

I guess my beef is more with the FA/Waiver system than the Gordon acquisition itself. He's just the catalyst. I've never given a standard waiver system's flaws much thought until something of this magnitude made me dig deeper.

 

I feel like leagues should either be no waivers or like yours is set up with a FA bidding system. Why, with a standard waiver system, should injuries on a Wednesday be treated differently than ones during a game? Or if Gordon's announcement was made on a Wednesday than on a Sunday? The randomness and luck of both circumstances should be eliminated if possible.

[GS3K 12]

Well then have a league vote to change it for next year.

 

This year you're S.O.L.

[Antiramie 50]

Agree on both points.

[Giants Fan 85]

You lost me at some guys "don't have smart phones."

 

In 1997, I had a 24.4 dialup at home, but at work, we had a T1. I knew when waivers opened, and I was always first to rape the wire before anyone else got there.

 

Those were the days. Now all my leagues are FAAB only.

[Antiramie 50]

Most of us work in restaurants. We left the "no waivers" system because some people were always off Sunday and some were always busy at work and couldn't follow the updates as quickly. We wanted all people in the league to have an equal shot of getting players. So I'm thinking back to that mentality when I see the Gordon announcement as a first come first serve situation for us when it happened. And that made me think about how injuries during the week should be treated the same as ones during games.

 

FAAB for next year seems to be the best solution if all teams agree upon it, which I'm sure they will if the guy that got Gordon goes on a rampage, rather than trying to make an exception to the current waiver system for this one rare instance.

[Giants Fan 85]

Yep. Use this to get everyone agree to a blind bidding FAAB next year.

[JediMaster 20]

If the news broke during a Sunday afternoon when the waivers were locked, then everyone would have a fair chance to get him (blind bidding) OR worst record gets first dibs etc. depending on your league rules. BUT the news broke when waivers were open, so technically it's first come.

 

All my leagues lock free agency right before the Thursday night game (8:30). Wednesday at noon all the blind bids go through. After that happens it is first come. News was announced around 8pm on Thursday (30 min before first come locks). So, if you were watching and saw this, he's up for grabs. If no one saw and the waiver locked, then yes, the blind bids go in for the following week.

 

Not sure why people are atill complaining about this. To me it sounds fair.

[Monk81 5]

Can't change the rules in the middle of the game. What you can do is use this as the reason next year the league implements a better waiver system.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

This is so much drama.

 

I've eliminated guys from potentially joining our money league because they make statements like 'It's only June; isn't that a little early to start talking about Fantasy Football?' If you're not going to be competitive and try your best to gather all the information to make your team better, we don't want you. If you don't answer trade offers, have inactive players in lineups or don't have a bleeding ulcer by Week 8, you might not get invited back.

 

Claiming everyone didn't have an opportunity is just garbage; of course they did. Guys make choices to go to either keep reviewing sites like Rotoworld/PFT or they spend their time otherwise. Those that stay informed have a better chance and therefore are more competitive but that's a choice. For some guys during football season, this is a priority (it is in my case).

 

Sack the fock up, quit whining about not getting the guy and resolve yourself to stay better informed. Hell, the guy might not even play this year.

[$epphori$ 118]

This is so much drama.

 

I've eliminated guys from potentially joining our money league because they make statements like 'It's only June; isn't that a little early to start talking about Fantasy Football?' If you're not going to be competitive and try your best to gather all the information to make your team better, we don't want you. If you don't answer trade offers, have inactive players in lineups or don't have a bleeding ulcer by Week 8, you might not get invited back.

 

Claiming everyone didn't have an opportunity is just garbage; of course they did. Guys make choices to go to either keep reviewing sites like Rotoworld/PFT or they spend their time otherwise. Those that stay informed have a better chance and therefore are more competitive but that's a choice. For some guys during football season, this is a priority (it is in my case).

 

Sack the fock up, quit whining about not getting the guy and resolve yourself to stay better informed. Hell, the guy might not even play this year.

THIS

[kilroy69 994]

This is so much drama.

 

I've eliminated guys from potentially joining our money league because they make statements like 'It's only June; isn't that a little early to start talking about Fantasy Football?' If you're not going to be competitive and try your best to gather all the information to make your team better, we don't want you. If you don't answer trade offers, have inactive players in lineups or don't have a bleeding ulcer by Week 8, you might not get invited back.

 

Claiming everyone didn't have an opportunity is just garbage; of course they did. Guys make choices to go to either keep reviewing sites like Rotoworld/PFT or they spend their time otherwise. Those that stay informed have a better chance and therefore are more competitive but that's a choice. For some guys during football season, this is a priority (it is in my case).

 

Sack the fock up, quit whining about not getting the guy and resolve yourself to stay better informed. Hell, the guy might not even play this year.

peeeerrrfectly said

[Law 220]

I don't get the point of this thread at all. First of all, you don't change the rules once your league season has started. Second, what's this nonsense about availability and equal opportunity? Did you have a draft? I drafted Gordon in 3 of 4 leagues. He was available to everyone, but I took him. In the 4th league, he was drafted but then dropped. I put in a waiver claim and got him. In all four cases everyone had a chance to draft Gordon or put in a waiver claim. Were was the lack of equal opportunity?

 

In every league I'm in, players are on waivers from kickoff until Wednesday morning. To get any player, you have to put in a claim which rewarded based on waiver priority. Equal opportunity. From Wednesday through kickoff of the next week's games, every player not claimed in waivers becomes a free agent, available to everyone (equal opportunity).

 

Now, if Gordon wasn't drafted by anyone in your league despite the fact that anyone could have, that no one claimed him when he went through waivers post-draft, and then when he cleared waivers and became a free agent for a number of days and no one still picked him up....where is the lack of equal opportunity???

 

 

So you didn't get him. That doesn't mean it wasn't fair. EVERYONE in your league had multiple chances, multiple opportunities to get Gordon and they all passed. They're bad. Kudos to the team that FINALLY had the sense to pickup a guy who could be a top 5 WR! A guy who should have been drafted with a wait and see attitude or, in the least, picked up somewhere sometimes.

 

That you and your ENTIRE league passed multiple times on him does NOT make it unfair. It just makes your league stoopid.

 

[Sho Nuff 719]

if it happens outside of the waiver period, then it's first come, first serve... I don't understand why that's a problem?

 

Because he didn't get him and everything needs to be "fair" to him in his eyes.

If he had gotten Gordon...he would not give a damn about the other guy's fairness.

[laxdad57 2]

Gordan is rostered in most every league as a hold and pray. Keeper leagues had to consider his risk/reward beyond the one year suspension. There was always some chatter about the chance of him playing some this year, via appeal, court/injunction or negotiated settlement.

 

I think everyone in FF has had fair opportunity with regards to rostering Gordan.

[DamageIncVacc 6]

I dont understand the issue here but when I hear this I think people who dont get a player try to make up rules on the fly because they are mad they or other owners did not get said player.. Gordon was a FA, some one picked him up within the rules. It matters more because he is a top 10 player ? On Friday it was said that Andre Ellington could miss 4-6 weeks . If that owner dropped him Or say traded him away for pennies on the dollar does he now get a do over because Ellington played and is fine. What if these negotiations allow Justin Blackmon back in. If someone has the smarts to grab him today ahead of any news, they are just taking a gamble that might pay off. Unless there is some rule then i do not see anything to discuss here., As someone said, Just Soap opera Drama.

[PackYourNut 47]

First off, OP you should be embarrassed to even post this. :cry:

 

Second, move to blind bidding waivers next year. Give everyone $100 for the year. Whatever you spend at years end gets added to the pot.

[J-Money 4]

Because it's like Calvin Johnson supposedly breaking his back and being out for the season, someone dropping him, and then after he clears waivers an announcement is made that they read the wrong person's x-ray and he'll be back in a week.

 

 

Lol it's nothing like this. Unless you are talking about preseason, because ww locks for the teams that have started playing that week and if megatron broke his back in game hopefully team doctors would triple check stuff before announcing and you would know if he should be dropped.

 

Let me take your bass ackward thought process for a try... How about us guys who used a 5th or 6th or 7th round pick on ray rice? Can we go redraft after said round since it's not fair he's out all season now when he was originally suspended 2 games for the same thing (double jeapordy)

[Antiramie 50]

I'll say it again, my issue is with the standard waiver system than Gordon's situation specifically.

 

I've already requested that our league go to a FAAB system next year. I think it's idiotic that a free-for-all is possible 4 days out of the week with standard waiver setting instead of 7 days with a "no waiver" system.

 

Either you do "no waivers" or FAAB.

[DamageIncVacc 6]

I dont see anything wrong with 4 days being a free for all as long as its known to all. Preference for FAAB but most leagues I am in have the normal waivers. Tuesday night / Wed morning and then open pickups until Sunday at 1pm.

[Eddie Kennison 12]

Absolutely pathetic thread. This is what's wrong with FF. Stick the the rules you've made official.

[Antiramie 50]

The Gordon announcement just made me realize that a free-for-all 4 days a week can be just as impactful & unfair as our old waiver system to people who work a lot or don't spend every waking hour checking fantasy news. And if we got rid of no waivers to even the playing field, then it seems like sticking with standard waivers doesn't make sense either.

[J-Money 4]

Then play in free leagues where you can make everything fair and fun for everyone. Give everyone a heads up about who is being picked up in case they were not aware of information that came out. I play in money leagues and you want to pay attention, you only have yourself to blame if you miss out (no one knows this is my site ). I had a few people in my league b!tch that I snaked Gordon before they did... If I had waited to pull the trigger he would have been on someone else's team. It's still a risk, I had to drop someone I drafted (Hyde) for someone who may or may not have his suspension reduced.

[DamageIncVacc 6]

The standard waiver has been around for years and no issues. We have had major injuries to RB's and the first person to claim the backup gets him. Never an issue before. (Not talking to the OP just in general) seems like this one is different becasue alot of people are mad/jealous or whatever about not getting Gordon (and making up rules to get back at people who got him) who yes can be a difference maker but was this an issue when Priest Holmes got hurt and folks picked up L Johnson and folks rode LJ to the championship. . There have been alot of injuries announced during the 4 day open period in the past and owners grabbed the backups to win championships. . Now as I said the FAAB is more fair and if so inclined use it next year. But again all these threads seem to be owners who just didnt get Gordon and are really angry. I do get it but its the way the game goes.

[steelers2101 7]

if it happens outside of the waiver period, then it's first come, first serve... I don't understand why that's a problem?

 

It's a problem because he didn't get him and he is thinking selfishly.

[steelers2101 7]

Then play in free leagues where you can make everything fair and fun for everyone. Give everyone a heads up about who is being picked up in case they were not aware of information that came out. I play in money leagues and you want to pay attention, you only have yourself to blame if you miss out (no one knows this is my site ). I had a few people in my league b!tch that I snaked Gordon before they did... If I had waited to pull the trigger he would have been on someone else's team. It's still a risk, I had to drop someone I drafted (Hyde) for someone who may or may not have his suspension reduced.

 

Hyde is a ton of value and plenty of risk. People complaining are just not that bright and are only thinking about themselves.

[Antiramie 50]

Absolutely pathetic thread. This is what's wrong with FF. Stick the the rules you've made official.

 

Go fly a kite. It's not out of the question to ponder whether an acquisition like Gordon can make our league, that actively moved away from no waivers because a minority of managers had a time/scheduling advantage, reconsider whether instances like this (or mid-week injuries, suspensions, etc) should force a change to a FAAB system....this year or next.

 

I'm sure the change will happen next season than this one, but is it that outrageous and "pathetic" to insinuate that this could precipitate a vote against a league setting that, after reconsideration following a drastic occurrence, violates the exact purpose a previous rule change was made? I don't think a vote will even transpire for that matter, but everyone speaking general disdain like you have personal knowledge of my league or think I'm upset just because I didn't get Gordon can go back to your perfect leagues that aren't without discrepancies. Even if I got Gordon, I would completely understand if another manager made the same point. Do I think anything should be amended this year? Probably not. But does it not warrant a ###### discussion on the topic based on league history and wanting to adhere to those previously set values? Sometimes it takes a drastic incident to make people reevaluate a current setting. Christ.