Majority of Americans support harsh interrogation techniques and torture.

[HenryHill9323 65]

 

 

If everyone who calls you some variation of dipsh1t is having a meltdown, everyone on the board is having a meltdown.

Pretty much just you, Frankie.

[Frank M 181]

Don't resort to frankm/worms tactics. Answer the simple question.

Its a yes or no deal.

 

I oppose torture. How much clearer do I have to make it for you dumbasses? I could give two sh1ts about any scenario you can dream up.

 

I'll value the opinion of someone like John McCain, who actually put something on the line and went through it, on the efficacy and morality of torture than a bunch of internet tough guys on a message board.

[Frank M 181]

Pretty much just you, Frankie.

 

 

Then you haven't been listening.

[crackattack 513]

 

Don't resort to RP tactics.

Would you? Would you waterboard one terrorists if it meant saving 1000 American lives,100, 10? If it was guaranteed a captured terrorist would give info that would save lives, and all you have to do is waterboard him once to get the info, would you?

[Frank M 181]

Would you? Would you waterboard one terrorists if it meant saving 1000 American lives,100, 10? If it was guaranteed a captured terrorist would give info that would save lives, and all you have to do is waterboard him once to get the info, would you?

 

Would you rape your mom if it would prevent someone from killing a hundred babies? Even if you only had to do it once and it was guaranteed to save all those babies?

 

The problem with any of you or jerry's scenarios is there is no guarantee of anything. It's all make-believe.

 

You can ask the same question a hundred different ways. I'll answer it the same way: torture is something that we shouldn't do because it's barbaric and as a civilized country, should not be an option, and the results are dubious at best.

 

Torturing someone just because they are a horrible human being, like terrorists, is worse. At least the fake excuse of getting information out of someone can be argued.

[IGotWorms 3,323]

So you're not opposed to waterboarding terrorists to save American lives????

It's not the "comfort of terrorists" I'm worried about, it's a rather basic minimal level of respect for human rights no matter how bad you believe the detainee is. That's what makes us better than them.

 

And I really resent the implication that I don't value american lives since I'm against torture. You're better than that.

[BunnysBastatrds 1,926]

 

Opposed to torturing human beings for dubious results. You guys are the ones buying the line that torture is an effective tool.

 

 

It's been around for centuries. I wonder why that is?

[RLLD 3,455]

 

I oppose torture. How much clearer do I have to make it for you dumbasses? I could give two sh1ts about any scenario you can dream up.

 

I'll value the opinion of someone like John McCain, who actually put something on the line and went through it, on the efficacy and morality of torture than a bunch of internet tough guys on a message board.

 

I support your decision to have a stance, even if i do not agree with your stance, and people like me will continue to put their lives on the line to protect you from the people who would happily cleave your head from its shoulders; even you you abhor us for doing so.

[MDC 5,902]

Would you? Would you waterboard one terrorists if it meant saving 1000 American lives,100, 10? If it was guaranteed a captured terrorist would give info that would save lives, and all you have to do is waterboard him once to get the info, would you?

Does this ever actually happen in real life? Do we ever know that a prisoner has info that will save lives and only by torturing him we will get that info in time?

 

I'm not opposed to torture on strict moral grounds really. I just believe it's almost never necessary and therefore shouldn't be official policy. Once you make it policy it's no longer something we do in a ticking time bomb scenario, it's just ordinary interrogation techniques.

 

[RLLD 3,455]

Does this ever actually happen in real life? Do we ever know that a prisoner has info that will save lives and only by torturing him we will get that info in time?

 

I'm not opposed to torture on strict moral grounds really. I just believe it's almost never necessary and therefore shouldn't be official policy. Once you make it policy it's no longer something we do in a ticking time bomb scenario, it's just ordinary interrogation techniques.

 

 

Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for the rag heads, and you curse the CIA. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That the rag heads tired and wet little bodies, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

[BunnysBastatrds 1,926]

It's not the "comfort of terrorists" I'm worried about, it's a rather basic minimal level of respect for human rights no matter how bad you believe the detainee is. That's what makes us better than them.

 

And I really, truly resent the implication that I don't value american lives since I'm against torture. You're better than that.

[Frank M 181]

 

I support your decision to have a stance, even if i do not agree with your stance, and people like me will continue to put their lives on the line to protect you from the people who would happily cleave your head from its shoulders; even you you abhor us for doing so.

 

So because I don't want Americans waterboarding people and shoving their lunches up their ass, I now abhor the troops?

 

For a smart guy, this is really a stupid response. You're better than that.

[crackattack 513]

I don't care for babies, and I'm not attracted to my mom, so no. I'm not saying you or worms are wrong. Everyone has their own beliefs. I just believe when we are fighting an enemy that doesn't abide by the same set of rules or law of combat as the rest of the civilized world, and are willing to destroy and murder innocent civilians, then yes all bets are off.

[RLLD 3,455]

I don't care for babies, and I'm not attracted to my mom, so no. I'm not saying you or worms are wrong. Everyone has their own beliefs. I just believe when we are fighting an enemy that doesn't abide by the same set of rules or law of combat as the rest of the civilized world, and are willing to destroy and murder innocent civilians, then yes all bets are off.

 

Damb skippy. I recall some movie where US troops would not fire at the enemy because they were hiding behind women who were holding up babies, let me tell you that in that same situation, I bleed everything on that building, babies, women, and I don't care, not the least little bit.

[BunnysBastatrds 1,926]

Does this ever actually happen in real life? Do we ever know that a prisoner has info that will save lives and only by torturing him we will get that info in time?

 

I'm not opposed to torture on strict moral grounds really. I just believe it's almost never necessary and therefore shouldn't be official policy. Once you make it policy it's no longer something we do in a ticking time bomb scenario, it's just ordinary interrogation techniques.

 

 

 

MDC,,,,have you ever been in a Turkish prison?

[Frank M 181]

I don't care for babies, and I'm not attracted to my mom, so no. I'm not saying you or worms are wrong. Everyone has their own beliefs. I just believe when we are fighting an enemy that doesn't abide by the same set of rules or law of combat as the rest of the civilized world, and are willing to destroy and murder innocent civilians, then yes all bets are off.

 

Okay. We don't have common ground on this issue.

 

 

You one-legged fock.

 

 

[Sho Nuff 719]

I don't care for babies, and I'm not attracted to my mom, so no. I'm not saying you or worms are wrong. Everyone has their own beliefs. I just believe when we are fighting an enemy that doesn't abide by the same set of rules or law of combat as the rest of the civilized world, and are willing to destroy and murder innocent civilians, then yes all bets are off.

The problem is that you cant ever be sure your torture will give you information to save lives.

 

You just can't. So its an idiotic scenario

[crackattack 513]

Does this ever actually happen in real life? Do we ever know that a prisoner has info that will save lives and only by torturing him we will get that info in time?

 

I'm not opposed to torture on strict moral grounds really. I just believe it's almost never necessary and therefore shouldn't be official policy. Once you make it policy it's no longer something we do in a ticking time bomb scenario, it's just ordinary interrogation techniques.

 

Don't know for sure but we did find obl from info used from "torture". That had to save some lives. Like I said earlier. I've seen cia agents say it works and ones say it doesn't. I'm guessing the truth is in the middle and it works sometimes.

[crackattack 513]

The problem is that you cant ever be sure your torture will give you information to save lives.

 

You just can't. So its an idiotic scenario

But you can't be sure it wont. Does that make your point idiotic?

[crackattack 513]

 

Okay. We don't have common ground on this issue.

 

 

You one-legged fock.

 

 

I am that

[BunnysBastatrds 1,926]

 

So because I don't want Americans waterboarding people and shoving their lunches up their ass, I now abhor the troops?

 

For a smart guy, this is really a stupid response. You're better than that.

 

 

It kind of backs you into a corner and that's an uncomfortable place to be when you're talking about the troops. And you and Worms saying "You're better than that" has become the standard answer. It's a lame attempt to get out of the corner but funny nonetheless.

[Sho Nuff 719]

But you can't be sure it wont. Does that make your point idiotic?

My point is we shouldn't give up moral ground for information that probability wint help us at all.

 

The guys yiu find who claim torture works....people who want to be able to use it and defend it. Ithers including those who have been tortured say it doesn't work.

 

Pretty simple choice.

[crackattack 513]

My point is we shouldn't give up moral ground for information that probability wint help us at all.

 

The guys yiu find who claim torture works....people who want to be able to use it and defend it. Ithers including those who have been tortured say it doesn't work.

 

Pretty simple choice.

You say probably wont work. Again, you don't know this for sure. I've seen ex-cia agents have said it does work and others say it didn't. I'll gladly give the moral high road for even a 10 percent chance it might save lives. You have your beliefs and I have mine. It's all good.

[Frank M 181]

 

 

It kind of backs you into a corner and that's an uncomfortable place to be when you're talking about the troops. And you and Worms saying "You're better than that" has become the standard answer. It's a lame attempt to get out of the corner but funny nonetheless.

 

What corner? You're the one trumpeting the ridiculous idea that if you don't condone torture, you don't support the troops. I expect that kind of idiocy from you. From Ray, not so much.

[RLLD 3,455]

 

What corner? You're the one trumpeting the ridiculous idea that if you don't condone torture, you don't support the troops. I expect that kind of idiocy from you. From Ray, not so much.

 

Except that is not what I said, if you read the post again, I was referring to myself. I am disinclined to spread my individual assertions to the entire military, but I do propose the stance for myself.

[BunnysBastatrds 1,926]

But you can't be sure it wont. Does that make your point idiotic?

 

 

Yes. He believes he can keep saying and it's truth. He's convinced that playing Duran Duran's greatest hits over and over in two hour intervals for a week to a Jihadist will not want to make them give up any intel if they just for the love of Allah stop. There's no possible way that could work in his mind. He thinks that the so-called torture can't work because everyone knows terrorist love Simon Lebon.

[Frank M 181]

 

Except that is not what I said, if you read the post again, I was referring to myself. I am disinclined to spread my individual assertions to the entire military, but I do propose the stance for myself.

 

Okay.

 

You two-legged fock.

 

 

And I wouldn't abhor anyone who's trying to protect me. I just don't buy the idea that torture is a viable way of protecting me.

[RLLD 3,455]

 

Okay.

 

You two-legged fock.

 

 

And I wouldn't abhor anyone who's trying to protect me. I just don't buy the idea that torture is a viable way of protecting me.

 

Its good to have people lining up on both sides of the issue I think, if everyone always agreed I think our mistakes would be far more frequent and impactful.

[MDC 5,902]

Don't know for sure but we did find obl from info used from "torture". That had to save some lives. Like I said earlier. I've seen cia agents say it works and ones say it doesn't. I'm guessing the truth is in the middle and it works sometimes.

I'm just saying a lot of folks are throwing out this false dichotomy like we torture someone we know has critical info that will save lives.

 

Really we are torturing folks who may or may not know something, without knowing if this info is critical / time sensitive at all or whether it's the truth or just what the prisoner said to make the torture stop. And even in the OBL example we got info that contributed to getting him and we will never know whether we could've gotten it otherwise or if getting him when we did saved anyone.

[crackattack 513]

 

Its good to have people lining up on both sides of the issue I think, if everyone always agreed I think our mistakes would be far more frequent and impactful.

Agree

[crackattack 513]

I'm just saying a lot of folks are throwing out this false dichotomy like we torture someone we know has critical info that will save lives.

 

Really we are torturing folks who may or may not know something, without knowing if this info is critical / time sensitive at all or whether it's the truth or just what the prisoner said to make the torture stop. And even in the OBL example we got info that contributed to getting him and we will never know whether we could've gotten it otherwise or if getting him when we did saved anyone.

All valid points. I'm certain we have tortured people who knew nothing, just as I'm certain we've tortured people who gave up good Intel. This argument is strictly moral, and I have very little when dealing with terrorists. Just hiw I am I guess

[BunnysBastatrds 1,926]

 

What corner? You're the one trumpeting the ridiculous idea that if you don't condone torture, you don't support the troops. I expect that kind of idiocy from you. From Ray, not so much.

 

 

I never said you don't support the troops. I implied you don't fully support the troops. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't question for you. If I ask if you would support water boarding if you knew it worked 50% of the time and saved troops lives, your answer either defends your morals or how much you support the troops.

 

Why don't you ask Ray, who I believe is a Marine combat veteran, if he think's torture has any value.

[IGotWorms 3,323]

 

 

I never said you don't support the troops. I implied you don't fully support the troops. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't question for you. If I ask if you would support water boarding if you knew it worked 50% of the time and saved troops lives, your answer either defends your morals or how much you support the troops.

 

Why don't you ask Ray, who I believe is a Marine combat veteran, if he think's torture has any value.

That's total focking bullsh!t.

 

Do you support just nuking everyone in the middle east?

 

No? Well then you must not fully support the troops because if we just nuked everyone there would be nobody left to harm our troops.

 

See how completely focking retarded that is? Almost as dumb as your theory that we have to protect the constitution by torturing people

[Sho Nuff 719]

 

 

Yes. He believes he can keep saying and it's truth. He's convinced that playing Duran Duran's greatest hits over and over in two hour intervals for a week to a Jihadist will not want to make them give up any intel if they just for the love of Allah stop. There's no possible way that could work in his mind. He thinks that the so-called torture can't work because everyone knows terrorist love Simon Lebon.

Yeah...it was just music and it all worked perfect and then there was a Dont Worry Be Happy sing along.

 

You really should quit drinking.

[Reality 2,710]

You say probably wont work. Again, you don't know this for sure. I've seen ex-cia agents have said it does work and others say it didn't. I'll gladly give the moral high road for even a 10 percent chance it might save lives. You have your beliefs and I have mine. It's all good.

He believes after he says it enough it magically becomes the truth.

[Sho Nuff 719]

He believes after he says it enough it magically becomes the truth.

 

Or I trust those who have been tortured over those who like to torture when it comes to the validity of data that it produces.

[Reality 2,710]

 

Or I trust those who have been tortured over those who like to torture when it comes to the validity of data that it produces.

Like it or not these techniques led to the finding and killing of OBL.

[MDC 5,902]

Like it or not these techniques led to the finding and killing of OBL.

Wow talk about your jumping to conclusions.

[Reality 2,710]

Wow talk about your jumping to conclusions.

No different than Sho acting like he has first hand accounts from every person that has ever been tortured.

 

 

I would imagine there is some gray area, it has probably worked sometimes and not worked sometimes. To say definitively one way or the other is just dumb.

[Voltaire 4,567]

MDC,,,,have you ever been in a Turkish prison?

 

Part of Uncharted 2 is set in a Turkish prison, if MDC like I, played the game, does that count?